Dungeons with Raid level difficulty and epic loot.

[Bloodline1x9]

I like 5 man dungeon group but there is no need to go there anymore after receiving raid gear. Can you make a few dungeons with epics as drop loot but with also high difficulty gear requirement?
In order to que LFT there, the player needs to have at least Honored with Zandalar. So that the blue weaklings do not stand in que.

What could it be?
- New parts of Karazhan.
- New dungeons in Keepers of the Time
- Zul'Aman 5 ppl. You know, it's in Azeroth.
- New dungeon in Gilneas

[Kazel9090]

+
more content for 5-10 players would be really nice

[Xudo]

Raids technically easier than 5mans. They just require higher numbers and more coordination among people.
I really liked someones idea about allowing tanks and healers to farm gold doing 5ppl. This new dungeon could fill this role.
I also think that this dungeon could address some of the raiders problems.

For example lack of tanks, especially with good gear.
They would need some reason to go this dungeon instead of any other raid.
Maybe some flasks as reward.
Maybe this dungeon should be tankless at all. Full of casters and escaping archers for example. Or maybe players should be attacked from balcons, without path to them.

It would be interesting if new dungeon will be easier for healers and hard for damage dealers.
Most of dungeons use healers mana as limiting factor. It forces healers to drink potions to keep raid alive. It leads to high expenses for class which can't farm gold effectively.
There should be some other punishing factor. For example enrage mechanics or lots of healers from enemy side.

It should not be possible to farm this dungeon by mages. More casters and archers as enemies again.

[Jammyxx]

I've always preferred 5 man dungeons over raids. You just feel like you matter more and contribute more to group. In raid if you die it's like sometimes it doesn't really matter as there's still 39 people left.

So I would love to see more difficult 5 man's with epic gear. Or maybe a token system like in tbc where you get badges from doing difficult dungeons then buy your own gear.

[Elisleris]

Cavern of time: Black moras had epic difficulty. Espesially third boss or Infinity Chromie (burn mana from caster) or trash mob (placed DoT on whole party with high amout of dmg). This was the one of reasons why it was closed. Also very bugged.
But any way, each mob here drops sands, they can turn in for reputation, on Exalted reputation are list of nice epic gear. Bosses also have some epics in drop list.
This good example what you want: high difficulty and epics.

[Ishilu]

+
more content for 5-10 players would be really nice

Fully agree.

I also agree that the dungeons should be tuned in a way that they can't be easily AE farmed.
Putting lots of casters in there might be one good idea. I'd also like to add mob resistances, so that most AE's won't be effective against at least some packs and players sometimes need to adjust their spell selection to the situation rather than their spec. That's the one thing I really like about SFK, by the way.

Also, mobs might just hit so hard (possible after enraging) that whole packs just become untankable without CC, kiting and focussing, so dps can't just turn off their brains and spam AE all the time.

Another thing I'd really like to see in new dungeons would be improved rogue utility. For example, there could be locked chests containing dungeon spcific buff potions, shortcuts or even locked away bonus bosses. To make the whole thing even D&Dier, we could toss in a few traps for disarming, with random spawn points, if possible .

[Drubarrymooer]

I like 5 man dungeon group but there is no need to go there anymore after receiving raid gear. Can you make a few dungeons with epics as drop loot but with also high difficulty gear requirement?
In order to que LFT there, the player needs to have at least Honored with Zandalar. So that the blue weaklings do not stand in que.

What could it be?
- New parts of Karazhan.
- New dungeons in Keepers of the Time
- Zul'Aman 5 ppl. You know, it's in Azeroth.
- New dungeon in Gilneas

I'm very pro more 5-10 man content. Doesn't need to have epics. Just needs to be fun. E.g. rewards could be gold from daily dungeon quests, or raid consumes like Stam mushrooms, mongoose pots, etc.

[Balake]

There is one challenging 5-man content, the Atiesh legendary boss. That exposed the problem about making 5 man content hard in vanilla, there is always one ideal team composition for it.

If they balance it so that any 5 man group can complete it as long as they have one tank one healer three dps, then the ideal team comp will oneshot the boss. If they balance it so that only the most cherrypicked team can do it, then only that cherrypicked team will do it and it will be a challenge of getting geared players, not doing the mechanics.

Atiesh needs a decurser, two warrior tanks, immense aoe healing AND single target healing. If you have those, it's just a matter of gearing and consuming for the encounter, get world buffs and you basically oneshot it.

My point is, 5 man hard content in vanilla is not possible. Cataclysm had hard heroics because it's overall a more involved game with more complicated rotations and boss fights. Vanilla is a simple game, it can't work the same.

[Wilsonsds]

i suggested a while ago a way to make 5 man viable.

My suggestion was basically adding a quest in the 40 man raids, that if you complete them in a set time you can unlock specific new npcs inside the saved raid, these new NPCs give quests to complete some specfic 5 man dungeons, and the quest reward would be some mats for flasks, enchants or something alike.

This would open a channel of comunication to new 60 players, besides it would help the farming for mats that raiding requires, beond that would lower the need of gold farmers. And would revive the 5 man content without adding new loot.

[Tobbsu]

I love see more 20 man it only exist 2. I like to see more of this^^

[Bladedqueen]

Just don't ever replicate M+, please. The timer is an abomination and has a damaging effect on player/community mindset. Higher static difficulty for higher rewards is fine.

[Ishilu]

TBC heroics were quite nice, too. Don't know about Cata.

I think one way to make dungeons more challenging would be to simply ramp up mob damage so that AE tank'n spank becomes unviable.

Considering the "perfect team" meta, that's indeed a problem. One way to fix this would be to fill new lvl 60 content with encounters that require a whole set of different class abilities to get solved. E.g. if there's a mage with decurse, there should be demons or elementals that would need banishing, if only a warlock were there, too. Likewise, there could be mobs that can only be trapped by hunters (see my numerous I-want-to-play-my-survival-hunter-posts) or particularly rough encounters that could be completely circumvened by a rogue with maxed out lockpicking. Toss in some varying mob immunities (like those frost and shadow immunities in SFK) and the whole thing gets interesting.

Another idea: make new 5-man content dynamic. One of the few good ideas that came with WotLK were the varying bosses in violet hold. Imagine running a dungeon and not knowing which bosses are going to spawn before you enter their rooms. The idea is to make the content just a little bit chaotic to prevent a meta beyond "we're going to need tank'n heals" from emerging.

Note that most if not all vanilla dungeons follow the formula "lot of relatively hard trash and relatively easy boss at the end", so there would be room to fill up with varying encounters.

[Geojak]

Big +
I am still sad how much kharazan crypt and sw vault were nerfed since launch
Difficult 5 man's are good!

[Imonobor]

+1 in favor of Heroic Difficulty Dungeons. Give us 5-manners a challenge. And a chance for some epic loot, lol.
Maybe we could even have HC versions of lower level dungeons with new boss mechanics and loot, that would be awesome. I itch to revisit some of the awesome leveling dungeons like Shadowfang keep and whatnot.

[Kashchei]

+ 1 for heroic dungeons

heroic dungeons + special objectives ie; timed runs like strath

Add cool BOE levelling blues and epics to loot tables as scaled lvl 60 gear