Another post about the pvp realm

[Nodemask]

Hi everybody,

First of all I want to show my most sincere respect to the older and original Turtle wow community, and my admiration because you guys have provoked the rise of this server, which in my opinion is the most dedicated and quality one.

I've been leveling sometimes in the past here in turtle while I couldn't mantain a constancy as for me the lack of PVP culture in a server is literally miss 50% of the game, which for this server is such a pity.

I'm a very experienced player in practically all private servers and official servers (from 2006 to 2014), im very aware of the problems the PVE community state, on the tendency to toxic community in PVP realms, on the balance of the classes, the crossfaction...

And I wont point out all the nuances that all those points have, because one can state that toxic community is in fact more about the general community and state of the server itself (which in this case is 10/10), class imbalance may be exaggerated here but official vanilla was already super imbalanced, we know, we accept it, is part of this beautiful game, and the crossfaction is already handled in the CN pvp server.

But the most important point I want to highlight is that, people, this server is not thinking 100% about the people that CURRENTLY plays Turtle, is for the MASSIVE COMMUNITY and players that are waiting, like me, for the pvp version of the amazing and beautiful Turtle wow, the people that is absolutely crazy in playing here but after discovering is a PVE server they don't even try, there are thousands of them who already know about turtle, with a bit of youtube videos we will need 2 pvp reals not just one.
And the PVE server will continue with their community, the old one and the people that started this, I dont really see the point of PVE people wanting to have all the community kidnapped, if you guys are always in conflict, why don't have separate servers finally? You are scared that the server will loose too much players, but those players are the ones that want PVP so is this really fair?
You may end up telling me about the original and ancestral phylosophy of turtle wow, and I wont get into that discussion, im here just for the numbers and the technical aspects.

Thank you for your time,

[Twinking]

Now we have: 0 Warsong Gulch, 0 Arathi Basin, 0 Sunnyglade Valley and 4 alterac with 50% china. And you want to split this community in half. Who will play on the new pvp realm? This should only be a hk world...

[Bigsmerf]

Two things from me here.

TBC honor system when?

And

Chinese transfers when?

[Xudo]

I want to point out that focus on fun PvE is very hard to maintain while making balanced PvP. It is not because of time. It is because of the nature of changes itself. Too many variables should be considered.
I think turtle devs choose PvE and leveling as their goal and they are doing good. It would be cool if they make pvp viable, but I wouldn't expect that from them.

[Nodemask]

Now we have: 0 Warsong Gulch, 0 Arathi Basin, 0 Sunnyglade Valley and 4 alterac with 50% china. And you want to split this community in half. Who will play on the new pvp realm? This should only be a hk world...

That's great and aligned with what a PVE server should be, look, my guess is that PVE EU server wont have a downfall of players, I'm talking about the whole influx of players that will come that don't play the server because it is PVE, but are very attracted to the Turtle sentiment, and the people that will know about this that don't know yet.

I'm defending that it is an interesting move to Turtle (if they will to expand themselves) and probably the best classic + server for people that wants to enjoy the 100% of the game.

I don't conceive a Warmane like server, where everything is PVP oriented, I see turtle PVP as a whole community enjoying raids and PVE (I do PVE because PVP benefits heavily from it, among other reasons) and have a healthy PVP activity as well.

I personally enjoy farming for my raid vials while having to keep in sight a horde/alliance player that may want to attack me when im low to steal my mobs and maybe I will otherwise, you know, the entire game, and maybe 2 more are joining and I call some of my friends and suddenly it starts a whole battle and you add some names in your black list to try to find them later, and then you go to raid.. the entire game.
Nothing related with ganking or abusing, and RP is more than welcome.

[Harkus]

Saying a non PvP server is missing 50% of the WoW experience is such nonsense. And yes, as you said, Turtle is already beautiful, no need to destroy it with a new PvP server...

And speaking of the Turtle sentiment, that is slow and steady, literally the opposite of what these fresh PvP types are interested in

[Nodemask]

Saying a non PvP server is missing 50% of the WoW experience is such nonsense. And yes, as you said, Turtle is already beautiful, no need to destroy it with a new PvP server...

And speaking of the Turtle sentiment, that is slow and steady, literally the opposite of what these fresh PvP types are interested in

Probably for you is 100% PVE, but for my is probably more than 50% PVP, you can speak for yourself as I do speak for my self.
As I explained before, I see the new PVP realm as an expand for Turtle, it will have his own community with a great majority of new players and a few from the active PVE playerbase.

So you have three options:
A) PVE server becomes empty because of huge migration to the PVP server, unlikely, but it would demonstrate that Turtle community wanted indeed PVP, very unlikely.
B) PVP server gets a lot of attention from private server community and it grows with its own community, PVE server remains as it always has been with the long time community and healthy population.
C) PVP server doesn't gets any attention at all and it eventually closes as PVE remains as the unquestionable king.

So Harkus please, I need you to explain me in detail how the creation of a PVP server will kill the PVE server and destroy the Turtle community, im very open minded and I can change my opinion and would never defend anything that for my own desires could harm others.

[Geojak]

The main reason I believe why torta opted for reduced xp rate (originally 0.5X) , pve and rp focus was because she rly, rly was sick of the constant toxic drama on the elysium mega servers.

So isntead she started a project aimed at the hopefully wholesome niche community attracted by these settignd that the average toxic players don't enjoy. That is fresh pvp rush to endgame with boosted rates type of server people.

The drama is already here ever since paladins were made viable, and the fresh demander are also here. Giving in to pvp servers will be the last step to open the flood gates.

At op. You say we pve csn enjoy our pve server and you pvp enjoyers can enjoy the pvp server. But with a mass influx of pvp server enjoyed undoubtedly we will get a mass influx of pvp balance cryier too, and we know how nasty these shit fest can get
insert here av balance - > paladins - > shamans - > rank system -> av meme

The pvp server will change the culture of turtle wow as a hole, just by existing.

IF queues are the problem, open another pve server or hc.
If dead bgs are a problem, fix the ranking system
IF non English speaker majorities are a problem, open dedicated server and transfers.

What problem doea a pvp server solve?
Why dies twow need to bend and cater to people who wish for something the twow project is not about.

Personally I wouldn't mind a pvp server but if u was making the decision I would see the negatives out weight the positives

[Jammyxx]

Tbc System is stupid, you can see a fully decked out R14 in 1-2 days. Makes the R10 blue set pointless.

They should make it like the new system on era, where RP and deranking is abolished, then make 500k max gain so farming more is pointless and you can eventually get R14 with 300k a week but takes longer than 500k, but possible... Like now people are farming 900k+ in AV a week on TWOW

[Charanko]

Now we have: 0 Warsong Gulch, 0 Arathi Basin, 0 Sunnyglade Valley and 4 alterac with 50% china. And you want to split this community in half. Who will play on the new pvp realm? This should only be a hk world...

People dont pvp on a pve realm imagine that…
Think most of thr people are waiting for chna transfers pvp server annoncement to come back to the game

[Hoodooman]

There are plenty of toxic people here already. All I do is run dungeons and in nearly every group there is a ninja that needs everything they can, people that wipe the party then blame others, then curse you out in pms for 15 min, and if you mention it or boot them they try to wipe the party. The community is super toxic already not that there are not nice people, but there are a ton of super toxic babies on the server already. Luckily I doubt those toxic pvers could handle playing a pvp server.

[Harkus]

Saying a non PvP server is missing 50% of the WoW experience is such nonsense. And yes, as you said, Turtle is already beautiful, no need to destroy it with a new PvP server...

And speaking of the Turtle sentiment, that is slow and steady, literally the opposite of what these fresh PvP types are interested in

Probably for you is 100% PVE, but for my is probably more than 50% PVP, you can speak for yourself as I do speak for my self.
As I explained before, I see the new PVP realm as an expand for Turtle, it will have his own community with a great majority of new players and a few from the active PVE playerbase.

So you have three options:
A) PVE server becomes empty because of huge migration to the PVP server, unlikely, but it would demonstrate that Turtle community wanted indeed PVP, very unlikely.
B) PVP server gets a lot of attention from private server community and it grows with its own community, PVE server remains as it always has been with the long time community and healthy population.
C) PVP server doesn't gets any attention at all and it eventually closes as PVE remains as the unquestionable king.

So Harkus please, I need you to explain me in detail how the creation of a PVP server will kill the PVE server and destroy the Turtle community, im very open minded and I can change my opinion and would never defend anything that for my own desires could harm others.

Because it will draw in people who do not care about the Turtle spirit of slow and steady, of friendliness... it will draw in toxic people who just want to play on a F R e S h server for a month or two, screech about paladins being broken, demand changes, cry when the server turns into a one faction gankfest after a while and then demand another fresh server... we do not need these people. It is a waste to spend resources on it. Not to mention Turtle is big enough as it is, growing the server just to make the numbers go higher is just asking for Blizzard to take action.

The philosphy of Turtle has always been one server, one community. Yes, there are Chinese realms now but honestly those are different from the EU server and not a cause to abandon the principles of the original EU realm. There is nothing stopping you from PvPing on the RPvE realm, there are battlegrounds, warmode etc. I know it is not exactly the same, but Turtle is our home and clearly the vast majority of people on it do not care about PvP that much. Then why should outsiders or minority get to force a new PvP realm on us? Especially when the population is fine when the Chinese are offline! Once all measures are in place I bet you there will be no more queue issues... there is just no way a PvP realm will have the same spirit of friendliness that I experienced when I first started playing Turtle in 2021 and is one of the biggest reasons I decided to stay here.

And no, I do not play a paladin and I used to play on an RPvP server before quitting Blizzard after Blitzchung. I like a bit of PvP every now and then but I'm not going to claim it is 50% of the game, that's just ridiculous. Leveling is the biggest part, then endgame PvE, then PvP. It is why PvP was barely functional in the original release of the game, because it was an afterthought. It was not balanced, it never will be. Centering content around it is a mistake.

[Feetlover444]

Now we have: 0 Warsong Gulch, 0 Arathi Basin, 0 Sunnyglade Valley and 4 alterac with 50% china. And you want to split this community in half. Who will play on the new pvp realm? This should only be a hk world...

How is PvErs not wanting to PvP our fault? The small amount of people doing bg's proves how opressed pvpers are on the current server.

Why do you act as if you champion for the minorities right to do bg's when they'll be the first to leave for the pvp server?

You ask who will be left to do battlegrounds, uhmm? The PvERs??? If they still dont want to do bg's thats on them not on us PvP lovers, you're barking at the wrong crowd

[Charanko]

Saying a non PvP server is missing 50% of the WoW experience is such nonsense. And yes, as you said, Turtle is already beautiful, no need to destroy it with a new PvP server...

And speaking of the Turtle sentiment, that is slow and steady, literally the opposite of what these fresh PvP types are interested in

Probably for you is 100% PVE, but for my is probably more than 50% PVP, you can speak for yourself as I do speak for my self.
As I explained before, I see the new PVP realm as an expand for Turtle, it will have his own community with a great majority of new players and a few from the active PVE playerbase.

So you have three options:
A) PVE server becomes empty because of huge migration to the PVP server, unlikely, but it would demonstrate that Turtle community wanted indeed PVP, very unlikely.
B) PVP server gets a lot of attention from private server community and it grows with its own community, PVE server remains as it always has been with the long time community and healthy population.
C) PVP server doesn't gets any attention at all and it eventually closes as PVE remains as the unquestionable king.

So Harkus please, I need you to explain me in detail how the creation of a PVP server will kill the PVE server and destroy the Turtle community, im very open minded and I can change my opinion and would never defend anything that for my own desires could harm others.

Because it will draw in people who do not care about the Turtle spirit of slow and steady, of friendliness... it will draw in toxic people who just want to play on a F R e S h server for a month or two, screech about paladins being broken, demand changes, cry when the server turns into a one faction gankfest after a while and then demand another fresh server... we do not need these people. It is a waste to spend resources on it. Not to mention Turtle is big enough as it is, growing the server just to make the numbers go higher is just asking for Blizzard to take action.

The philosphy of Turtle has always been one server, one community. Yes, there are Chinese realms now but honestly those are different from the EU server and not a cause to abandon the principles of the original EU realm. There is nothing stopping you from PvPing on the RPvE realm, there are battlegrounds, warmode etc. I know it is not exactly the same, but Turtle is our home and clearly the vast majority of people on it do not care about PvP that much. Then why should outsiders or minority get to force a new PvP realm on us? Especially when the population is fine when the Chinese are offline! Once all measures are in place I bet you there will be no more queue issues... there is just no way a PvP realm will have the same spirit of friendliness that I experienced when I first started playing Turtle in 2021 and is one of the biggest reasons I decided to stay here.

And no, I do not play a paladin and I used to play on an RPvP server before quitting Blizzard after Blitzchung. I like a bit of PvP every now and then but I'm not going to claim it is 50% of the game, that's just ridiculous. Leveling is the biggest part, then endgame PvE, then PvP. It is why PvP was barely functional in the original release of the game, because it was an afterthought. It was not balanced, it never will be. Centering content around it is a mistake.

bro have you been playing for the last couple of months? that ship has already sailed with the influx of chinese... half the server doesnt even want to speak to you anymore... the only thing that would maybe bring you back the old pve realm is making a seperate pvp so the people u so obviously dont like. move there.. and let the true pve enjoyers play OG turtle pve...

most true veterans of turtle say it was best when the server had 1 k population... and now you want it so stay at 10k just because of your ego and fear you buddies will go play on the server they deep down wanted to from the start(a pvp classic+)

cmon man...

[Wafflecrusher]

I think that you are massively over-estimating the number of players who want a PVP realm, and are overestimating the population that will join turtle in the event one is opened. There are numerous other options for players who want to play on PVP realms, other servers where the focus is entirely PvP. My suspicion is that though there may be a flux in population at the very beginning of a new PvP server opening, it would very quickly fizzle out like a dying star, and then be a significant drain on resources that could be used elsewhere.

[Marafado]

My english is not the best, my apologies in advance for any type errors.
Geojak and Harkus allready post here 2 great opinions that go in the direction of what i think twow was and need to continue to be.

I play wow since the begin, after 2 or 3 months vanilla was released (guess around 19 years), before i have played wc2 and 3, diablo2, and sc1 (blizzard fan of the old days ;p).
I have played in retail till 3rd expasion did a break and start with the vanilla pirate servers.

Did some come backs to retail but short time play (1 - 3 months).

Most of the servers i have played over the yeas are PVP, 1srt time i play a RPPVE is here in TWOW.

I have no problems against pvp servers, i like allot to do bgs, did allot of wpvp. The issue is the ppl that comes when there is a fresh pvp server . The china hype ;p was dificult because of the queues, the mindset and we dont understand the language, but for me this fresh pvp hypers are even worst because i understand them ;p

My recent experiences with wow are not the best, till i found twow :) did played some time in a fresh pvp hype server, and played classic retail for 1-2 weeks (buyed 2 months play card ;p).

To conclusion i think twow made here a nice spot for players that like old style wow, im not sure if its a good ideia to open the doors for the fresh pvp "efficient" players.

[Ishilu]

Why dies twow need to bend and cater to people who wish for something the twow project is not about.

Well said.

My thoughts on this topic:
Turtle wow is a free gift from the devs to the WoW community. While everybody can make suggestions and these suggestions are obviously being read by the team, nobody is entitled to any changes or adjustments that the devs might or might not make to the game. Even if they choose to patch windfury totems out of the game and replace all character models with naked gnomes while they're at it next week, then that's that, we can take it or leave it.

I fully agree that the "turtle spirit" (I like that term) is not for everybody. I am one of these niche players (even though I haven't been around on the server for as long as many others) and I sincerely hope that the fresh PvP crowd finds a way to enjoy the game in their own way and without getting on my nerves (and that includes crying for balance changes until the devs cave in and break the game for PvP reasons). A PvP server might still be a possible solution here. However, fresh servers with XP boost and all that anti-turtle stuff pop up quite regularly. It's not like these folks will never get to play their PvP again if turtle doesn't provide them with their own server.

[Aydea]

Why dies twow need to bend and cater to people who wish for something the twow project is not about.

Well said.

My thoughts on this topic:
Turtle wow is a free gift from the devs to the WoW community. While everybody can make suggestions and these suggestions are obviously being read by the team, nobody is entitled to any changes or adjustments that the devs might or might not make to the game. Even if they choose to patch windfury totems out of the game and replace all character models with naked gnomes while they're at it next week, then that's that, we can take it or leave it.

I fully agree that the "turtle spirit" (I like that term) is not for everybody. I am one of these niche players (even though I haven't been around on the server for as long as many others) and I sincerely hope that the fresh PvP crowd finds a way to enjoy the game in their own way and without getting on my nerves (and that includes crying for balance changes until the devs cave in and break the game for PvP reasons). A PvP server might still be a possible solution here. However, fresh servers with XP boost and all that anti-turtle stuff pop up quite regularly. It's not like these folks will never get to play their PvP again if turtle doesn't provide them with their own server.

I like what Ishilu says.

[Nodemask]

I think that you are massively over-estimating the number of players who want a PVP realm, and are overestimating the population that will join turtle in the event one is opened. There are numerous other options for players who want to play on PVP realms, other servers where the focus is entirely PvP. My suspicion is that though there may be a flux in population at the very beginning of a new PvP server opening, it would very quickly fizzle out like a dying star, and then be a significant drain on resources that could be used elsewhere.

I maybe wrong man, but massively over estimating? Turtle WoW is solidly the best rated server among youtubers and is always mentioned when talking about the best and more active private servers. I really think the only thing is preventing a huge incoming of players is the lack of PVP server, the community have more options as you say, but none of those are even close to Turtle quality and dedication.

In Blizzard's WoW there has always been more PVP servers than PVE servers, because the mass usually enjoys PVP as well as PVE, you have to add up the people that enjoys both and the people to just plays PVP, so obviously there are more people that plays WoW that prefers PVP server, the most popular and populated ones have always been PVP servers.
People do hear about Turtle WoW and I can tell you for a lot of potential players is a huge disappointment when they first learn about the PVP culture in the server, id' say there's already a lot of people waiting for this.

I'm again not discussing if the spirit of the server, and the developments and the people behind Turtle is a fully oriented PVE and, since other guy said before and I 100% agree, this is a gift from them, and I absolutely respect and will have no bad words for whatever they decide, I'm just commenting my own desires.

[Crunshy1512]

Fresh when

[Daedric]

In Blizzard's WoW there has always been more PVP servers than PVE servers, because the mass usually enjoys PVP as well as PVE, you have to add up the people that enjoys both and the people to just plays PVP, so obviously there are more people that plays WoW that prefers PVP server, the most popular and populated ones have always been PVP servers.
People do hear about Turtle WoW and I can tell you for a lot of potential players is a huge disappointment when they first learn about the PVP culture in the server, id' say there's already a lot of people waiting for this.

I'm again not discussing if the spirit of the server, and the developments and the people behind Turtle is a fully oriented PVE and, since other guy said before and I 100% agree, this is a gift from them, and I absolutely respect and will have no bad words for whatever they decide, I'm just commenting my own desires.

This is where I'm at. I turned on Warmode because it's the closest I can get to PVP, and now I'm just waiting until the new server announcement to play again (because, quite frankly, Warmode isn't great). It's important to recognize that the PVE/HC server should stay as such; after all, the core community is there because that's what they wanted from the start, and was the original goal/culture. That shouldn't change- if anything, with the opening of the PVP server, Warmode could be totally removed.

But there's no logical reason to not open a PVP server. It's a different culture, and if you tie it in with cross-realm battlegrounds, you can make sure BG"s are all populated. Everybody wins.

Things change, and the people who are whining about a potentially new PVP server don't seem to grasp that the Team is balancing massive demand, and that PVP culture is very different. Just because you open a single PVP server doesn't mean you down the "Always fresh" route (which I honestly despise.) The argument that the core server will be then abandoned is rather funny- because those who leave weren't the ones invested in the server in the first place. You'll eventually get a strong, core community in both servers.

Personally? Launch a PVP server with the dedicated dev's of the Turtle Team at the helm, and I'll be happy as a clam for many years. No fresh needed- just the crazy, chaotic World of Warcraft as factions and players battle it out. Many of us grew up playing Blizzard's PVP servers and have some of our best memories from that era. There's no logical reason to not give both play-styles a home in Turtle WoW

[Xa1amandor]

+1 for sentiment of this thread.

Turtle WoW ought to create their own RPvP server because if they don't, another vanilla-era server will. It's clearly something that the vanilla-era community yearns for and on this basis alone, TWoW should seriously consider supplying this demand with their superior product.

[Poggo]

Classic PvP is such a shit fest riddled with issues I truly don't understand how people champion it.

First off there's racials, horde simply has better PvP racials across the board, gnomes can compete and that's it.

Then there's gear, PvP only really works until BWL, after that it starts to become one shot fiesta because dmg goes up much faster than survivability without resilience. The novelty quickly wears off after you get global'd by naxx gear.

Obviously there's class balance, paladins taking heat right now cause they were made usable in PvE as ret, is this to then be reverted and the other underperforming specs left untouched to satisfy the PvP balance?

The only way PvP in classic works is a) massively reworking the game to specifically cater to PvP or b) on the endless fresh treadmill.

[Xudo]

Classic PvP is such a shit fest riddled with issues I truly don't understand how people champion it.

racials
gear
class balance

You forgot about consumables: Zanzas, Flasks, FAP, limited invulnerability potion, brand new Lucidity potion.

Anyway, PvP server differs from PvE server by its world aspect.
PvP server has no benefits to battlegrounds. It has no benefits to ranking. It has no benefits to reputation of factions.
World aspect of PvP comes down to griefing low levels by high levels and there is no good solution except of phasing content like I described in that post viewtopic.php?p=62725#p62725

It is also about competing for resources in open world. If t3 guys will be in the same world as levelers, then t3 guys will get all lotuses, rich thorium veins and gromsblood. Levelers won't get a chance to gather anything.
Stuff in blasted lands and winterspring will be the same. t3 guys don't let anyone else to farm those consumables.
Solution is to phase world too.

I think t3 guys should be separated from fresh 60 in any aspect of the game. High level pvp is in the same "twink trap" as 10-19. Weak players always lose and don't have any chance.

[Kingswiftietv]

The balance issues exist outside of PvP and is only amplified because of it. And twow’s devs are being forced to address it. The “meta” in discourse (not really looking to fight about the validity of this) is the paladin. That is why there are such an uncharacteristically high number of them - meaning there is an uncharacteristically high number of alliance members who are playing alliance to chase the “meta”. It’s why cross-faction exists because without it endgame pve is unbalanced and so is the disparity of queue numbers. Don’t get me wrong, I love twow and I think the devs have done a better job balancing than anywhere else I’ve ever been. But the decisions they are making are already trying to handle the imbalance. I would be more concerned about the future of horde on the eu server than anything. Not all horde players are pvpers, but there is a larger majority in the group. It’s why BGs function currently because yes alliance may be waiting two or three rounds of existing instances to finish BUT there is horde team queued to fill it. I don’t think you need to nerf the paladin though (mainly cause a large group of the community would be angry) but simply buffing shaman and having them wear plate would balance that 4k+ health disparity which resolves the PVE and the PVP balance. It shifts the meta conversation to shaman or paladin - then you have a more balanced distribution of players across factions lowering alliance queue times. Also you would eliminate a lot of the balance whining this way when both sides are fighting who is actually better - which for sure is a different kind of annoying but GREAT for PvP

[Brandwacht]

What do you think about adding an analogue of the top items from PVE to PVP rewards? I don't really want to keep destroying mobs at level 60.

[Charanko]

The balance issues exist outside of PvP and is only amplified because of it. And twow’s devs are being forced to address it. The “meta” in discourse (not really looking to fight about the validity of this) is the paladin. That is why there are such an uncharacteristically high number of them - meaning there is an uncharacteristically high number of alliance members who are playing alliance to chase the “meta”. It’s why cross-faction exists because without it endgame pve is unbalanced and so is the disparity of queue numbers. Don’t get me wrong, I love twow and I think the devs have done a better job balancing than anywhere else I’ve ever been. But the decisions they are making are already trying to handle the imbalance. I would be more concerned about the future of horde on the eu server than anything. Not all horde players are pvpers, but there is a larger majority in the group. It’s why BGs function currently because yes alliance may be waiting two or three rounds of existing instances to finish BUT there is horde team queued to fill it. I don’t think you need to nerf the paladin though (mainly cause a large group of the community would be angry) but simply buffing shaman and having them wear plate would balance that 4k+ health disparity which resolves the PVE and the PVP balance. It shifts the meta conversation to shaman or paladin - then you have a more balanced distribution of players across factions lowering alliance queue times. Also you would eliminate a lot of the balance whining this way when both sides are fighting who is actually better - which for sure is a different kind of annoying but GREAT for PvP

i dont think thats how balance works... so you essentially want to make 2 hero classess x)
...you cant just break another class,just because paladins are broken... maybe make holy strike not beeing able to crit? maybe change it to nature or phisical damage(i know it says holy) or 1/2 holy 1/2 phisical.. since beeing it holy is clearly broken... these are just 2 things i came up in 1 second from the top of my head ... they are not ment to be taken seriously... im just saying... there are things the devs can do to make paladins fall in line...

tho enhance shamans in plate would be funny as hell. maybe make it 31 talent xD ...thrall is already full plate in orgrimmar, like a boss hehe ... im joking ... or am i?? ;)

[Brandwacht]

what makes you think that a paladin should be opposed to a shaman? and why balance should be set up around them?

[Marafado]

shit this chanako fellow dont wait for his fresh pvp release and allready put the devs on their toes, guess hes working like a boss ,p

[Brandwacht]

paladin is broken- his holy strike ignores armor
hunter is broken- his poison burns all mana
rogue is broken- he с can stun for 10 seconds
warlock is broken - he has fear and pets... blah blah

[Tanuwukikuma]

Maybe if you were able to farm decent PvE gear with Honor it will attract more people into PvP.
or you can buy with honor those Fashion Tokens. there are many ways to do it. i dont know if a PvP Server will solve the problem when there was no real PvP anyways.

What about a PvP related Dungeon like Archavons Chamber from Wotlk.

but i still hope the Project will success ! gl

[Kingswiftietv]

The balance issues exist outside of PvP and is only amplified because of it. And twow’s devs are being forced to address it. The “meta” in discourse (not really looking to fight about the validity of this) is the paladin. That is why there are such an uncharacteristically high number of them - meaning there is an uncharacteristically high number of alliance members who are playing alliance to chase the “meta”. It’s why cross-faction exists because without it endgame pve is unbalanced and so is the disparity of queue numbers. Don’t get me wrong, I love twow and I think the devs have done a better job balancing than anywhere else I’ve ever been. But the decisions they are making are already trying to handle the imbalance. I would be more concerned about the future of horde on the eu server than anything. Not all horde players are pvpers, but there is a larger majority in the group. It’s why BGs function currently because yes alliance may be waiting two or three rounds of existing instances to finish BUT there is horde team queued to fill it. I don’t think you need to nerf the paladin though (mainly cause a large group of the community would be angry) but simply buffing shaman and having them wear plate would balance that 4k+ health disparity which resolves the PVE and the PVP balance. It shifts the meta conversation to shaman or paladin - then you have a more balanced distribution of players across factions lowering alliance queue times. Also you would eliminate a lot of the balance whining this way when both sides are fighting who is actually better - which for sure is a different kind of annoying but GREAT for PvP

i dont think thats how balance works... so you essentially want to make 2 hero classess x)
...you cant just break another class,just because paladins are broken... maybe make holy strike not beeing able to crit? maybe change it to nature or phisical damage(i know it says holy) or 1/2 holy 1/2 phisical.. since beeing it holy is clearly broken... these are just 2 things i came up in 1 second from the top of my head ... they are not ment to be taken seriously... im just saying... there are things the devs can do to make paladins fall in line...

tho enhance shamans in plate would be funny as hell. maybe make it 31 talent xD ...thrall is already full plate in orgrimmar, like a boss hehe ... im joking ... or am i?? ;)

2 hero classes on opposite factions provide am much healthier game than them only being on one side. And like I said would split up the meta-chasers would help too. Also, yes I want to be a little Thrall that dude was my hero as a kid haha

[Kingswiftietv]

what makes you think that a paladin should be opposed to a shaman? and why balance should be set up around them?

They are both faction specific classes, firstly. So if you aren't providing equal classes that way - then boom you have forced faction imbalance.
Secondly, the paladin is overtuned and the enhancement shaman is undertuned. And since it is clear the devs don't want to upset their player base and nerf paladin - the best option (really only option) is to buff shaman.

[Charanko]

shit this chanako fellow dont wait for his fresh pvp release and allready put the devs on their toes, guess hes working like a boss ,p

In just so hyped haha <3

[Brandwacht]

what makes you think that a paladin should be opposed to a shaman? and why balance should be set up around them?

They are both faction specific classes, firstly. So if you aren't providing equal classes that way - then boom you have forced faction imbalance.
Secondly, the paladin is overtuned and the enhancement shaman is undertuned. And since it is clear the devs don't want to upset their player base and nerf paladin - the best option (really only option) is to buff shaman.

If you don't know how to play the shaman, it doesn't mean that it's bad. Everyone says that the paladin is strong, but no one says why the paladin is so strong? Yesterday I was at the BGS and out of 10 games for the alliance, on average there were 0-1 paladins in the team. Where are these paladins if they are so strong?