Armet wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 4:58 am
You're forgetting end game progression. Yes leveling is great and all but if that's all we focus on adding is horizontal content for leveling then, what, just start over at 60? There are ways to continue progression beyond level 60 without actually increasing the level cap, which still makes me feel like I'm restarting BTW. Personally I don't want to endlessly level the next alt that's fuckin arduous and doesn't sound fun to me at all. And yea I could play a different game but no game out there right now has the amazing bones to build on that wow does Imo. There are so many possibilities for creating new content just on azeroth without turning it into a space game, but that doesn't mean we can't add skills and systems from other xpacs such as: sockets, glyphs, even expanding the talent tree and having xp purely grant talent points and no levels. There is even path of the titans, which was a system that was going to be linked to archeology that added interesting skills depending on which titan you chose. And I'm not saying to make leveling easier I think tents went a long way to remedy that for those who chose to use them. If anything I want the game to get more difficult and it would be nice to run more than 5 different raids endlessly. I also enjoy grinding reputation but most factions currently don't offer any rewards that make the grind worth it. But that was a really nice aspect of tbc, getting exalted with honor hold to get that epic tanking sword felt awesome.
In closing, if you want to endlessly level alts fine but that is only one facet of this wonderful game and every possibility should be explored because I guarantee they all have an audience.
I'm leveling new characters because at this point even on Turtle WoW I don't see what else can I do at level 60 besides going to dungeons, raids and PvP and collect some gear, which I'm not one bit remotely interested in doing.
I can imagine different ways to have progression after level 60. And I think that it's something that is really good to have that allows people to still have reason to play a character after reaching the max level in the game and not be forced to participate in "the mainstream" activities where "all the cool kids" are.
For example the MMORPG Villagers & Heroes has a Rebirth system, which allows you to retain some things on your character, like profession, items, inventory, but lose level and quest progress, but get additional talent points and permanent XP boosts that increase as you level up, then you can get reborn again and a few more times:
https://villagersandheroes.fandom.com/wiki/Rebirth
Star Wars Galaxies originally had a horizontal progression, it was not a theme park MMORPG, it was (and probably still is) the most and only Sandbox MMORPG that ever existed. There you don't have much goals predetermined by the game, it's up to you what you will be doing with your character, the latest version, NGE, made the game more into a WoW-clone with theme park progression where you follow quest chains, but even after that, the Sandbox part more or less remains where you can reach the level cap and find ways to progress through professions and other activities where your imagination is the limit. Because professions in SWG are more "powerful" compared to the simplistic ones in WoW, in SWG, you can be a trader, doctor, architect, image designer, you can build cities, govern them, other players can be your citizens, as a trader or architect or image designer or doctor, other players are your clients, you can set up automated farm or other things outside of town that generate you passive income or resources (things I never delved into, only saw or read about). There is space combat where you can have an entirely different progression. There is land PvP where you can join and leave different factions (Empire, Rebels, others...) do PvP quests, monster hunting, monster taming, monster breeding, and so much more.
In terms of WoW and the limitations that the game has, I can't think of a right way how such progression can be implemented past level 60.
The Rebirth system from V&H if put into Turtle WoW, while the simplest to implement, it will create overpowered characters that have more talent points invested than those who haven't done Rebirths and it will make PvP and PvE imbalanced, and I can see a lot of people be very against such a drastic change.
The SWG progression in WoW sounds fun on paper, but SWG was built differently from the ground up and such complex systems cannot simply be added into WoW, be it Turtle WoW or any other server.
There can be some ways where a Rebirth system can be added, but this should lock out Rebirth characters from playing with non-Rebirth characters, kind of like how Hardcore characters now can only play with others like them.
There can be a system with Glyphs and other things from future expansions in WoW, I can imagine several only level 60 areas where you learn about these new features and perks and they are required to have in order to progress in those new level 60 areas and people who don't have this (but are still 60) can't really quest or progress there. In that regard, I always thought that there should be some kind of zones with repeatable and randomized (if possible) quests where you can spend months or years questing in and still get some kind of progress out of it besides being level 60 from the beginning.
Indeed, there are ways we can brainstorm how to add meaningful progression after 60 that is not dungeons, raids or battlegrounds and it's something I consider important, but I don't know if it can really be done and if the Turtle WoW developers are looking for such systems.
So far, the only "groundbreaking" changes on Turtle WoW are:
- new playable races
- new zones
- new profession, which is useful, but is a one-trick pony
Everything else on Turtle WoW is a combination of small changes which every other server can have and are small enough that the overall experience isn't that much more different from regular Vanilla. Which is probably why Turtle WoW became so popular - if it was too different, like Ascension WoW, for example, it might have never achieved this huge player base.
So if you have ideas how progression after 60 can be implemented in the game, explain it, I will be interested in reading what your thoughts are in more detail, but neither yours or my ideas might ever make it into the game, keep that in mind. No matter how much we want this type of progression and think it's cool and fun, it just might never happen.