Patch 1.17.0 — Beyond the Greymane Wall

[Roa7175]

What does it being mmo or single player have to do with anything...? And of course you can, toggles is just a saying. I'm talking about more options.

You're not playing alone, you're playing with and against other players. Gameplay balance is of paramount importance in a game like this and everybody has to play under the same rules for things to be fair.

I don't see how it's a necessary balancing factor at all. Other classes are able to attack at close range, mages are able to cast spell at close range, etc., and you're telling me hunters can't shoot at close range because it's "OP"...? That's silly.

Deadzone is the sole balancing factor of hunter in PvP and its removal would be catastrophic. In PvE it adds some depth to a class that's extremely simple to play and be effective with. You have melee and kiting abilities for a reason, use them.

I know I'm not playing alone...but what does that have to do with anything? Just because hunters are able to shoot at close range now, suddenly it's not fair for everyone else? That just doesn't make sense. How does it prevent other hunters from being able to do the same thing...?

It's silly to use depths and such to justify being unable to shoot in close range with a bow/xbow/gun. That's all I'm going to say in this regards really.

[Gantulga]

You've got to be trolling now.

[Remmo87]

Just because hunters are able to shoot at close range now, suddenly it's not fair for everyone else? That just doesn't make sense.

We are talking about class balance here.
All the Hunter skills and talents are designed around hunters having a specific range that they can use those said abilities in.
If you suddenly change that range,and even make the range requirements non-existing, it makes a huge difference in, not only the PVE scene, but most surdenly in PVP. It will make hunters OP and it will not be fair for other classes. It would ruin class balance to such a degree where you could say the Hunter class is broken OP.

To do it, hypothetically, they would have to nerf and change alot of Hunter skills and talents. Rewrite them completely. It would change the whole hunter class, and not even you can be sure you wanna play what ever hunter class that comes out on the other side of that change.

[Remmo87]

Suggestion to make a saperate server for HC:
viewtopic.php?t=5473

State your opinions, friends.

You want to divide the playerbase and make the game feel empty for either modes...? Lol.

There's no obvious reasons the game would feel empty for either part. There's insane high activity at the moment.

[Remmo87]

Top tier PvP specs were buffed further due to PvE changes bleeding into PvP while others fell further behind.

World PvP doesn't really exist. Warmode is a broken mess that only attracts PvErs for the EXP boost.

AV is the only BG that pops consistently but don't expect any actual PvP in there, as you should already know.
WSG/AB pop very rarely and the custom BG (Sunnyglade) is never played.

Quoting from another thread here.
But Gantulgas point....
Will there be anything specifically done to
make the PvP situation better with next patch?
Rewards for WPvP?
Better rewards for AB and WSG?
Nerf of paladins?

Might be bad suggestions, but do you dev guys have anything in mind?

[Roa7175]

Suggestion to make a saperate server for HC:
viewtopic.php?t=5473

State your opinions, friends.

You want to divide the playerbase and make the game feel empty for either modes...? Lol.

There's no obvious reasons the game would feel empty for either part. There's insane high activity at the moment.

I mean, it's kind of obvious that by default having a separate server for HC/SC, it would separate the playerbase. I don't really know how the proportions are between HC and SC players, but I'd take a guess at around 30% - 50%? It could be less, who knows but either way it's quite noticeable to see that amount of players just disappear.

Probably more noticeable for the HC players more than anything. AND this is not to mention that having separate severs for HC and SC would make the HC challenge not worth as much lol.

[Remmo87]

I mean, it's kind of obvious that by default having a separate server for HC/SC, it would separate the playerbase.

AND this is not to mention that having separate severs for HC and SC would make the HC challenge not worth as much lol.

We agree that seperating the playerbase would seperate the playerbase.

To me personally, my HC would be worth more on a HC only server.
So that's just your personal preference.
To which you have your full right to.

[Remmo87]

...who knows but either way it's quite noticeable to see that amount of players just disappear.

It would be noticable yes.
Thats not an argument not to do it, however.

[Roa7175]

...who knows but either way it's quite noticeable to see that amount of players just disappear.

It would be noticable yes.
Thats not an argument not to do it, however.

I would agree to disagree. A big part of the reason anyone is playing MMOs is for the sense of playing with a bunch of other people online. Even if you're solo, seeing a lot of players around you is what makes any games feel alive. A noticeable drop in the playerbase would reduce that feeling.

[Remmo87]

...who knows but either way it's quite noticeable to see that amount of players just disappear.

It would be noticable yes.
Thats not an argument not to do it, however.

I would agree to disagree. A big part of the reason anyone is playing MMOs is for the sense of playing with a bunch of other people online. Even if you're solo, seeing a lot of players around you is what makes any games feel alive. A noticeable drop in the playerbase would reduce that feeling.

Things we agree on:
The change would be noticible.
It would split the playerbase.
MMOs is about playing with other people online

Things we dont agree on:
The realms feeling empty after the change.
The drop in playerbase resulting in a feeling that the world is not alive.

[Miggs]

It's getting really crowded out there now and the competition for quest mobs is fierce making leveling a frustrating chore rather than an enjoyable experience.
Time to consider another realm methinks. Perhaps a pvp one?

[Beertaster]

Didn't they increase the respawn of the bats to something insanely beyond the length of a dungeon run? Like 6+ hours?

No they still respawned.

TBH its not an issue if everybody just /camp out of the dungeon and guide replacement players through. Its just that too many will afk or run past on their own. Or pull invisible mobs.

A little organization removes all challenge, its just that players can be like herding cats at times. I've been guilty of it too.

[Xudo]

It's getting really crowded out there now and the competition for quest mobs is fierce making leveling a frustrating chore rather than an enjoyable experience.
Time to consider another realm methinks. Perhaps a pvp one?

According to https://turtle-wow.org/#/population-graph
after high peak at 21/08/2022 with 3.5k people a lot of players quit and at 26/12/2022 there was 2k players.
a lot of players joined and left within 4 months timeframe. New realm can get crowded and get empty in few months, while old realm can suffer player loss.
I have seen situations where opening new realm was considered as "wipe old realm" attitude by all players.

PvP realm is a "pipe dream". World PvP never worked good. You think it is source of good PvP around there, but in reality it is only a source of frustration. It should not happen, until devs implement a way to protect leveling people from being ganked by bored 60lvl people.
If you want pvp on low level, join wsg 10-19.

[Miggs]

Xudo, I don't want PVP, I hate it. Just a suggestion of how to split 2 realms is all. There is way too many for one at the moment in the 0-30 areas and all the HC's just make things worse.

[Mephystroth]

I propone a change in Hunter Survival Talent tree...
Something that permit the use of traps during combact or more tank talent.. The fourth row it's really useless...

[Nokidding]

Would love to see some updates on development in the leading post :)

[Beertaster]

So I got 'Ace of Warlords' in DMN. Then learned that the 'Darkmoon Card Heroism' it turns into is generally under whelming. Its a chance on hit to restore 120-180hp after attacking trinket.
- it doesn't scale with any healing gear
- proc rate at best would be around 10% normalized to weapon speed
- Basically exists for less down time grinding mobs. There seems to be other options which are just as good.

So maybe buff some of the Darkmoon Cards or rework them a little. I don't think most people consider the Darkmoon Faire to have anything of use other than the world buff.
-------------------------------------
On the conversation of a pvp realm. Don't. Not until server pop is an actual unsolvable problem.
Also World PvP is bad. Just look at Rust or Ark: Survival Evolved. PvP in those games devolves around waiting until the target guild is offline at 2am and pull a night raid before the night guard can call everyone to wake up irl and log in to defend.

The more flexible pvp is, the more players will abuse it to win.

[Bloodphobos]

world pvp is ugly. Quite another thin is rating BG and arenas (5x5, 3x3, 2x2). And I'm not going to tell something about arena points, we don't need them in vanilla. I'm talking about
- infinity challange: each enemy team that will match your team skill due to MMR system;
- game glory thanks to rating tables and tornaments events

[Pauloricardo]

Troll Warlock make sense, so does Human Hunter. but I was hoping for some Tauren love. Tauren Warlock would have been nice if Tauren Paladin is out of Question.

Maybe in the next patch, and I believe the next class for the Taurens will be Priest.Makes more sense

[Xudo]

Taurens actually have no direct conflict with humans, so I think it is perfectly possible to make Taurens neutral race who can join Alliance. It should look like taurens are on both sides. Alliance version of taurens could be paladins, while Horde version can't.

[Andromath]

Taurens actually have no direct conflict with humans, so I think it is perfectly possible to make Taurens neutral race who can join Alliance. It should look like taurens are on both sides. Alliance version of taurens could be paladins, while Horde version can't.

The Alliance is more than just humans though, and the Tauren are not very happy with Dwarves. Like, at all.

[Shantowow]

Do we know when this patch will come ?

[Freddofooz]

Do we know when this patch will come ?

Probably summer.

[Noce]

i rly hope this emerald dream raid will have some Chimaeras, faerie dragons, giant Mantises and ofc demons and old gods minions such as faiceless ones and tentacles

[Weiro7]

love this

[Noce]

and perhaps we could see some of those forbiden and banished to sleep eternally druids in action finaly?

[Gantulga]

Paladins on suicide watch as Scarlet Citadel is scrapped and the main developer is replaced with a druid player this time around.

[Nightowl]

Scarlet Citadel is scrapped and the main developer is replaced with a druid player this time around.

Bruh, say it ain't so. I thought that the rumors of a turtle-dev leaving was just reddit trashtalk.....

Was also looking forward to that raid/dungeon.

[Torta]

Scarlet Citadel is scrapped and the main developer is replaced with a druid player this time around.

Bruh, say it ain't so. I thought that the rumors of a turtle-dev leaving was just reddit trashtalk.....

Was also looking forward to that raid/dungeon.

Please, don't spread weird rumors and misinformation. The Citadel development is on hold because we've decided to not use the upscaled Vanilla WMO of the merged Scarlet Monastery but come up with something unique and better in the future.

[Nightowl]

[/quote]

Please, don't spread weird rumors and misinformation. The Citadel development is on hold because we've decided to not use the upscaled Vanilla WMO of the merged Scarlet Monastery but come up with something unique and better in the future.
[/quote]

I get it. Shame things like that happen, hope you find someone to finish what was started.

[Torta]

I get it. Shame things like that happen, hope you find someone to finish what was started.

Once again, don't spread misinformation. None of our developers had quit the team.

[Aeliren]

The Citadel development is on hold because we've decided to not use the upscaled Vanilla WMO of the merged Scarlet Monastery but come up with something unique and better in the future.

Aw, that's unfortunate. I thought it was really cool that you guys were using that unused WMO for the raid.

[Torta]

The Citadel development is on hold because we've decided to not use the upscaled Vanilla WMO of the merged Scarlet Monastery but come up with something unique and better in the future.

Aw, that's unfortunate. I thought it was really cool that you guys were using that unused WMO for the raid.

Even upscaled, it appeared to be too small for the 40-player adventure. We encountered so many issues with it, so at some point it was decided to start over with a different model.

[Whalemilk]

Gilneas looks awesome.

[Nightowl]

Ogre playable race would be awesome but that sounds like such a massive pain the ass when it comes to designing armor sets on them. I still can't imagine an Ogre in tier 3 Warlock or Warrior set. Seems like a monumental task for little payoff.

Would have been nicer to expand the forsaken race list. Having Undead Elf model be available on character selection screen, or if Devs are a bit money-hungry a skin you can purchase for your Undead character, would be a godsend. Technically there should be a lot of Undead Elves in Forsaken force considering that 90% of Quel'Thalas got genocided. The issue is that the original forsaken model will essentially be invalidated since who the hell wants to play bag of bones when you can play a cool red-eyed undead elf who at the very least has proper armor graphics?

I also wonder how Gilneas is gonna impact lore. If it's a full fledged state like it used to be, that's a big deal because old Genn - before he was retconned - was actually kinda power hungry so he should have a pretty impressive standing force. Seems like a pain unless they went with the scenario where Worgen overrun the country and effectively destroyed Gilneas forever.

Gods I hope it's the former. Old Genn properly written into alliance politicis would be so cool. Can also slap some Black Dragonflight shenningans since Cataclysm has showed us that there were a few remnants hiding in their ranks - were they there before Deathwing caused Cataclysm or after?