New Races - Worgens & Ogres and Illidari as a third playable faction

[Adahel2162]

Greetings to all,

Today, I present a popular request articulated in a manner that aims to capture the attention of developers, thereby increasing the likelihood of its future implementation post-2025. This suggestion may serve as a remedy for the factional imbalances currently affecting our game.

I will outline the most viable races for the vanilla setting, starting with the most fitting candidate and progressing to those that are less so.

Should you find merit in this proposal, I encourage you to support my initial suggestion, 'Tauren Priests or Tauren Rogues, Dwarf Warlocks.' This concept is far simpler and more feasible for implementation, whereas the current proposal may be indefinitely overlooked by developers due to its complexity and their existing comfort with the status quo.

I wish to highlight a Turtle WoW development principle: the developers of this private server refrain races that share identical skeletons and animations. For instance:

The high elves and blood elves in vanilla utilize a modified night elf model. If the developers intended to preserve the vanilla aesthetic for the high elves, akin to the goblins, they would merely replicate the night elf skeleton and animations. However, this approach is untenable as it would result in two races with indistinguishable animations and emotes.

Adhering to the aforementioned guideline, our options for race models, skeletons, and animations are limited to the discarded playable ogre, draenei, worgen, and pandaren. The furbolg model is excluded from consideration due to its lack of a dance emote and mount-use animation, and I am skeptical that any existing skeletons on this list could be adapted to the vanilla furbolg model.

C̶r̶e̶a̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶ ̶a̶n̶i̶m̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶s̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶p̶r̶e̶s̶u̶m̶a̶b̶l̶y̶ ̶u̶n̶f̶e̶a̶s̶i̶b̶l̶e̶,̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶d̶u̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶a̶b̶s̶e̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶c̶l̶i̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶s̶o̶u̶r̶c̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶d̶e̶.̶ ̶P̶l̶e̶a̶s̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶r̶r̶e̶c̶t̶ ̶m̶e̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶u̶n̶d̶e̶r̶s̶t̶a̶n̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶c̶o̶r̶r̶e̶c̶t̶.̶

It is possible to add new animations to existed skeletons - though it's not a trivial issue. I already posted custom naga jumping and mount animations on this forum.

For the Horde, there is a singular contender:

1st - The Ogre: An ideal addition to the game for the following reasons:

- It is the most requested race on this forum, indicating substantial community interest.

- According to the Warcraft Wiki, a player model exists for this race. Its level of completion is uncertain, notably its lack of armor support. The presence of the tauren, another large-sized race within the Horde, and the challenge of designing appealing female ogre models resulted in Blizzard's decision to exclude ogres as a playable race. The 'Gordok Ogre Suit' was created to utilize the pre-existing player animations for the ogre model.

- Wowhead reveals that the 'Gordok Ogre Suit' shares the same dance animation and various emotes with the Druids' Moonkin form. The completeness of the ogre's emote repertoire is unknown, as I have not personally utilized that item. Should the ogre lack certain emotes and share the Moonkin's animation skeleton, it would be more straightforward to transfer any missing emotes to the ogre, thereby enriching the model. Alternatively, the Moonkin skeleton can be placed on the ogre, potentially requiring adjustments to the ogre model. It is conjectured by me that the Moonkin skeleton, due to emote similarities and model proportions, could have been originally derived from the playable ogre, particularly prior to the Warlords of Draenor expansion.

- Turtle WoW has successfully integrated armor into the vanilla goblin model using the Cataclysm skeleton, and several competing private servers have adeptly equipped different races with armor. Consequently, the argument against developing a new race based on armor compatibility should not be considered a valid concern in 2024. Even if the full development process spans months or years, Turtle WoW has diversified interests and enjoys a stable position, whereas its competitors require additional time before they can vie with Turtle WoW.

- The ogre model stands out for its completeness. Beyond possessing emotes, it accommodates mount usage and features the mounted ogre animation, unlike the Furbolg model, which lacks mount compatibility.

- The sole issue with this model is the nonexistence of female ogres within the game. Fortunately, this is a minor obstacle. Investigations into official sources reveal that an female ogres shares the male ogre's physique, with distinct differences in the face, chest, and hair.



R̶e̶g̶r̶e̶t̶t̶a̶b̶l̶y̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶A̶l̶l̶i̶a̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶l̶a̶c̶k̶s̶ ̶s̶u̶i̶t̶a̶b̶l̶e̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶d̶i̶d̶a̶t̶e̶s̶:̶

2nd - The Worgen: My stance on their inclusion is m̶i̶x̶e̶d̶ favorable:

- The implementation difficulty for Worgen is comparable to that of goblins; it involves applying the vanilla model with the Cataclysm skeleton and Cataclysm animations, followed by armor adjustments to fit the vanilla framework.

- I oppose the utilization of Gilneas, as its narrative arc is concluded and it serves as a higher-level zone, despite vacant spaces. Permanent alternative leveling solutions in vacant spaces are unprofessional. An ideal scenario would involve a dedicated leveling zone for Worgens, though interim leveling measures in vacant spaces are acceptable.

- The ability for Worgen to revert to human form is inconsequential to me. H̶o̶w̶e̶v̶e̶r̶,̶ ̶I̶ ̶a̶m̶ ̶f̶i̶r̶m̶l̶y̶ ̶a̶g̶a̶i̶n̶s̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶i̶r̶ ̶i̶n̶c̶l̶u̶s̶i̶o̶n̶,̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶p̶r̶i̶v̶a̶t̶e̶ ̶s̶e̶r̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶h̶a̶s̶ ̶s̶u̶c̶c̶e̶s̶s̶f̶u̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶b̶a̶c̶k̶p̶o̶r̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶W̶o̶r̶g̶e̶n̶’̶s̶ ̶'̶R̶u̶n̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶W̶i̶l̶d̶'̶,̶ ̶a̶k̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶m̶o̶u̶n̶t̶ ̶s̶p̶e̶e̶d̶.̶ ̶T̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶d̶e̶f̶i̶c̶i̶e̶n̶c̶y̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶d̶e̶a̶l̶b̶r̶e̶a̶k̶e̶r̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶m̶e̶.̶

And regarding Running Wild, there are successful examples of its recreation on 3.3.5 client - though I can't link a video from another project here.

3rd - The Draenei: My opposition is unequivocal:

- I disapprove of retcons, and many forum members overlook that the introduction of the broken draenei constitutes a retcon, as vanilla only features the lost one draenei variant.

- Contrary to the customizable broken draenei, the lost one draenei lacks individuality, with all members sharing identical faces and bodies.

- While a female broken draenei could be conceptualized, the lost one draenei’s uniformity renders it an impractical meme within the Turtle WoW universe.

- Implementing Draenei with the vanilla model is an impossibility, and adopting the broken draenei model would constitute a blatant retcon, tantamount to hypocrisy.

- Should the broken draenei model be selected, ̶i̶t̶s̶ ̶i̶m̶p̶l̶e̶m̶e̶n̶t̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶d̶i̶f̶f̶i̶c̶u̶l̶t̶y̶ ̶m̶i̶r̶r̶o̶r̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶g̶o̶b̶l̶i̶n̶s̶.̶ ̶I̶t̶ ̶w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶n̶e̶c̶e̶s̶s̶i̶t̶a̶t̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶a̶d̶a̶p̶t̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶r̶o̶k̶e̶n̶ ̶d̶r̶a̶e̶n̶e̶i̶ ̶m̶o̶d̶e̶l̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶B̶u̶r̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶C̶r̶u̶s̶a̶d̶e̶ ̶s̶k̶e̶l̶e̶t̶o̶n̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶B̶u̶r̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶C̶r̶u̶s̶a̶d̶e̶ ̶a̶n̶i̶m̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶s̶,̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶w̶e̶l̶l̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶r̶e̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶a̶ ̶f̶e̶m̶a̶l̶e̶ ̶b̶r̶o̶k̶e̶n̶ ̶d̶r̶a̶e̶n̶e̶i̶ ̶m̶o̶d̶e̶l̶ ̶f̶r̶o̶m̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶r̶e̶g̶u̶l̶a̶r̶ ̶f̶e̶m̶a̶l̶e̶ ̶d̶r̶a̶e̶n̶e̶i̶ ̶m̶o̶d̶e̶l̶,̶ ̶g̶i̶v̶e̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶i̶r̶ ̶a̶b̶s̶e̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶g̶a̶m̶e̶.̶

Thankfully, there's a fully functional modification that includes working models for both male and female Broken draenei:

4th - The Pandaren: My opposition is absolute:

- I lack arguments in favor of Pandaren in vanilla WoW, aside from their presence in the RTS franchise, which I have yet to explore. Their sole utility may lie in repurposing their skeleton and animations for a vanilla-compatible model if there are other race on Azeroth compatible with the pandaren skeleton and if the Worgen and Draenei options for the Alliance falter. I leave the advocacy for this race to you, esteemed forum members.

Thank you for your engagement !

Those playable Broken are fantastic. Really makes me want Illidari as a third playable faction with them, Blood Elves, Naga, and maybe Eredar and/or some kind of playable Demon race.

Greetings to all,

Your perspective is well-reasoned. Introducing an entirely new faction with fresh lore, distinct from the Burning Crusade’s Outland, while preserving the original vanilla factions, is indeed an ambitious endeavor. However, practical considerations come into play, particularly regarding time and financial feasibility.

Creating a new faction extends beyond the mere inclusion of two races. The goblin race’s development journey serves as a testament to the complexities involved. Imagining a new faction with multiple races, I humorously speculate that it might take a decade to complete—a timeline that could potentially hinder the server’s evolution and allow competitors to catch up with Turtle WoW. It’s essential to recognize that we are not Blizzard, and our resources and capabilities differ significantly. I would like some developer to comment on what is viable and what is not so that I can calibrate my suggestions, I feel like I am writing in the dark every time I create a topic.

Thank you for your engagement !

I'm not a dev but, theoretically speaking, you can avoid such complexities by imitating a third faction without its real implementation.

Let's say, we wanna create akin of Illidari faction. We're implementing racial restrictions to all existing Horde quests, so only Vanilla races + goblins can accept these quests. Then we're adding new races to the Horde - our "Illidari" races, and set their starting reputation with the Horde as "Hostile". Then we're creating Illidari quests with racial restrictions, so only Illidari races can accept these quests. Now your Illidari are imitating their own faction in most aspects of the game.

Even the character creation screen is redactable, and can place races in any possible order, without their dependency from their faction, so the third column can be added, too.

The problem here is pvp, because such plaulyers will inevitably be marking as Horde players, so they'll be sided with other Hrode members on BGs. However, it's solvable by adding ingame explaining that Illidari are in a state of fragile truce with the Horde.

Greetings to all,

Galendor, your knack for devising legendary solutions to a wide array of challenges never ceases to impress. The hurdles I currently perceive in this proposal are minimal and do not pose a significant barrier to the implementation of Mac’s original vision. Initially, the inclusion of the Naga as a race might face resistance from developers unless there are volunteers to craft the requisite animations for this potential race. Moreover, situating Outland as a leveling area for this third faction might feel out of place for the Naga, considering that only a few members made an alliance with Illidan.

Should the developers embrace this concept, I trust they would overlook the Blood Elves’ resemblance to the High Elves in terms of emotes and animations, given their identical race origins in the lore. Perhaps a shift towards Felblood Elves would add a touch of intrigue; their inability to become paladins, coupled with the introduction of Fel Orcs, could offer a compelling twist to this new faction’s narrative.

With the technicalities of implementation now behind us, it’s time to delve into the specifics of each race within the new third faction, including potential racial and class combinations. Admittedly, this is an area I tend to shy away from, as my creative prowess and class-balancing skills are somewhat limited.

There is undoubtedly space to further the discussion on a new faction. However, I urge members to also revisit the central theme and build upon the enlightening dialogue we’ve initiated. Let’s not allow the topic of adding two new races to the game—one for each faction—to wane. Please also share your thoughts on potential racial and class combinations about the races in the original thread, as this remains a more readily achievable goal, all while continuing the discourse initiated by Mac regarding a third faction. Your insights are invaluable, and I’m confident that by expanding our focus without losing sight of our initial intent, we can deepen our exploration of the subject and enhance our collective wisdom.

Thank you for your active participation and for enriching this vibrant forum with your perspectives. I eagerly anticipate our continued discussions on ‘New Races – Worgens & Ogres’ and ‘Illidari as a third playable faction’.

Should my tone come across as overly formal, do not hesitate to inform me. I’ve honed my language to ensure this topic thrives, unlike its predecessor.

Thank you for your engagement !

[Izrall]

I'm always a fan for more Ogre suggestions ! Thanks for your addition !

For the Female ogre model, i dont know how to import skeletons but i think that the female dire troll model from BFA would be excellent.
If you dont know what i'm talking about, you can look at one of them here : https://www.wowhead.com/npc=126056/totem-maker-jashga
My only problem with this model is that the animations are Maybe too "recent" and fluid, matching the artstyle of retail.

Still, i do think models from xpac like the tuskarr model could be used to give female ogre a unique set of emotes, mouvement etc.

As for alliance, i was thinking that vrykul could also be used as a race. Just explain that they are notherners fleeing northrend or something like that if you dont want to touch on the wotlk lore. Plus, they do fit the easthetic of the alliance, being human looking. Finally the building could be copied from wotlk to give them their own style. Just give them a zone in the montain north of kalimdor (to the north of moonglade to the east of winterspring for exemple.

[Galendor]

Creating new animations is presumably unfeasible, likely due to the absence of client source code. Please correct me if my understanding is incorrect.

It is possible to add new animations to existed skeletons - though it's not a trivial issue. I already posted custom naga jumping and mount animations on this forum.

The furbolg model is excluded from consideration due to its lack of a dance emote and mount-use animation, and I am skeptical that any existing skeletons on this list could be adapted to the vanilla furbolg model.

I believe orc skeleton could be utilize for furbolgs - of course if we don't concider addition of custom animations to furbolg skeleton.

- I oppose the utilization of Gilneas, as its narrative arc is concluded and it serves as a higher-level zone, despite vacant spaces. Permanent alternative leveling solutions in vacant spaces are unprofessional. An ideal scenario would involve a dedicated leveling zone for Worgens, though interim leveling measures in vacant spaces are acceptable.

- The ability for Worgen to revert to human form is inconsequential to me. However, I am firmly against their inclusion, because no private server has successfully backport the Worgen’s 'Running Wild', akin to mount speed. This deficiency is a dealbreaker for me.

Leveling problem is solvable via introduction of the island near the coastline of Gilneas. Let's say, it is where Lupine Coven could continue their work on embracing the Curse and allow fresh worgens to tame their nature.
And regarding Running Wild, there are successful examples of its recreation on 3.3.5 client - though I can't link a video from another project here.

- Should the broken draenei model be selected, its implementation difficulty mirrors that of the goblins. It would necessitate the adaptation of the broken draenei model with The Burning Crusade skeleton and The Burning Crusade animations, as well as the creation of a female broken draenei model from the regular female draenei model, given their absence in the game.

Thankfully, there's a fully functional modification that includes working models for both male and female Broken draenei:

[Adahel2162]

Greetings to all,

I'm always a fan for more Ogre suggestions ! Thanks for your addition !

For the Female ogre model, i dont know how to import skeletons but i think that the female dire troll model from BFA would be excellent.
If you dont know what i'm talking about, you can look at one of them here : https://www.wowhead.com/npc=126056/totem-maker-jashga
My only problem with this model is that the animations are Maybe too "recent" and fluid, matching the artstyle of retail.

Still, i do think models from xpac like the tuskarr model could be used to give female ogre a unique set of emotes, mouvement etc.

I posit that developers are unlikely to downscale or adapt HD models from and after the Warlords of Draenor expansion for use with the 1.12 client. Given the modernity of the animations, they would need to ensure that they are not encrypted, that they are not in a format for a more recent version of the game, and that the animations are backport with the legacy client which does not support all the features of a modern client. Furthermore, as Galendor pointed out, creating new animations is far from a simple task.

As for alliance, i was thinking that vrykul could also be used as a race. Just explain that they are notherners fleeing northrend or something like that if you dont want to touch on the wotlk lore. Plus, they do fit the easthetic of the alliance, being human looking. Finally the building could be copied from wotlk to give them their own style. Just give them a zone in the montain north of kalimdor (to the north of moonglade to the east of winterspring for exemple.

While I remain neutral on the topic of brainstorming potential races, it's important to note that my selection criteria are intentionally stringent. For a character model to qualify as a race, it must possess a full set of emotes and animations. The vrykul, as they currently exist as NPCs, lack these features. Merely transplanting the skeleton and animations from an existing playable race would lead to two races with identical animations and emotes. However, this should not deter the passionate development of your concept in the hopes of engaging a developer's interest. Persistence is key!

Creating new animations is presumably unfeasible, likely due to the absence of client source code. Please correct me if my understanding is incorrect.

It is possible to add new animations to existed skeletons - though it's not a trivial issue. I already posted custom naga jumping and mount animations on this forum.

The furbolg model is excluded from consideration due to its lack of a dance emote and mount-use animation, and I am skeptical that any existing skeletons on this list could be adapted to the vanilla furbolg model.

I believe orc skeleton could be utilize for furbolgs - of course if we don't concider addition of custom animations to furbolg skeleton.

- I oppose the utilization of Gilneas, as its narrative arc is concluded and it serves as a higher-level zone, despite vacant spaces. Permanent alternative leveling solutions in vacant spaces are unprofessional. An ideal scenario would involve a dedicated leveling zone for Worgens, though interim leveling measures in vacant spaces are acceptable.

- The ability for Worgen to revert to human form is inconsequential to me. However, I am firmly against their inclusion, because no private server has successfully backport the Worgen’s 'Running Wild', akin to mount speed. This deficiency is a dealbreaker for me.

Leveling problem is solvable via introduction of the island near the coastline of Gilneas. Let's say, it is where Lupine Coven could continue their work on embracing the Curse and allow fresh worgens to tame their nature.
And regarding Running Wild, there are successful examples of its recreation on 3.3.5 client - though I can't link a video from another project here.

- Should the broken draenei model be selected, its implementation difficulty mirrors that of the goblins. It would necessitate the adaptation of the broken draenei model with The Burning Crusade skeleton and The Burning Crusade animations, as well as the creation of a female broken draenei model from the regular female draenei model, given their absence in the game.

Thankfully, there's a fully functional modification that includes working models for both male and female Broken draenei:

I surmise that the Turtle WoW developers would be hesitant to apply the orc skeleton to the Furbolg model, as it would lead to two races with identical animations and emotes. However, the development philosophy of Turtle WoW may evolve over time, leaving room for this concept to be reconsidered in the future.

Galendor’s contributions have been instrumental in rendering the Worgen a feasible addition, thereby making the discussion pertinent for both factions. While I harbor reservations regarding the retcon of the broken Draenei, I acknowledge the collective preference and am willing to embrace it if deemed necessary. The insights provided were indeed profound. Now, with the majority of concerns addressed, the question arises: how might one persuade the developers to introduce two new races, one for each faction?

Thank you very much for your engagement !

[Mac]

Those playable Broken are fantastic. Really makes me want Illidari as a third playable faction with them, Blood Elves, Naga, and maybe Eredar and/or some kind of playable Demon race.

[Adahel2162]

Those playable Broken are fantastic. Really makes me want Illidari as a third playable faction with them, Blood Elves, Naga, and maybe Eredar and/or some kind of playable Demon race.

Greetings to all,

Your perspective is well-reasoned. Introducing an entirely new faction with fresh lore, distinct from the Burning Crusade’s Outland, while preserving the original vanilla factions, is indeed an ambitious endeavor. However, practical considerations come into play, particularly regarding time and financial feasibility.

Creating a new faction extends beyond the mere inclusion of two races. The goblin race’s development journey serves as a testament to the complexities involved. Imagining a new faction with multiple races, I humorously speculate that it might take a decade to complete—a timeline that could potentially hinder the server’s evolution and allow competitors to catch up with Turtle WoW. It’s essential to recognize that we are not Blizzard, and our resources and capabilities differ significantly. I would like some developer to comment on what is viable and what is not so that I can calibrate my suggestions, I feel like I am writing in the dark every time I create a topic.

Thank you for your engagement !

[Mac]

Those playable Broken are fantastic. Really makes me want Illidari as a third playable faction with them, Blood Elves, Naga, and maybe Eredar and/or some kind of playable Demon race.

Greetings to all,

Your perspective is well-reasoned. Introducing an entirely new faction with fresh lore, distinct from the Burning Crusade’s Outland, while preserving the original vanilla factions, is indeed an ambitious endeavor. However, practical considerations come into play, particularly regarding time and financial feasibility.

Creating a new faction extends beyond the mere inclusion of two races. The goblin race’s development journey serves as a testament to the complexities involved. Imagining a new faction with multiple races, I humorously speculate that it might take a decade to complete—a timeline that could potentially hinder the server’s evolution and allow competitors to catch up with Turtle WoW. It’s essential to recognize that we are not Blizzard, and our resources and capabilities differ significantly. I would like some developer to comment on what is viable and what is not so that I can calibrate my suggestions, I feel like I am writing in the dark every time I create a topic.

Thank you for your engagement !

K.

[Galendor]

Those playable Broken are fantastic. Really makes me want Illidari as a third playable faction with them, Blood Elves, Naga, and maybe Eredar and/or some kind of playable Demon race.

Greetings to all,

Your perspective is well-reasoned. Introducing an entirely new faction with fresh lore, distinct from the Burning Crusade’s Outland, while preserving the original vanilla factions, is indeed an ambitious endeavor. However, practical considerations come into play, particularly regarding time and financial feasibility.

Creating a new faction extends beyond the mere inclusion of two races. The goblin race’s development journey serves as a testament to the complexities involved. Imagining a new faction with multiple races, I humorously speculate that it might take a decade to complete—a timeline that could potentially hinder the server’s evolution and allow competitors to catch up with Turtle WoW. It’s essential to recognize that we are not Blizzard, and our resources and capabilities differ significantly. I would like some developer to comment on what is viable and what is not so that I can calibrate my suggestions, I feel like I am writing in the dark every time I create a topic.

Thank you for your engagement !

I'm not a dev but, theoretically speaking, you can avoid such complexities by imitating a third faction without its real implementation.

Let's say, we wanna create akin of Illidari faction. We're implementing racial restrictions to all existing Horde quests, so only Vanilla races + goblins can accept these quests. Then we're adding new races to the Horde - our "Illidari" races, and set their starting reputation with the Horde as "Hostile". Then we're creating Illidari quests with racial restrictions, so only Illidari races can accept these quests. Now your Illidari are imitating their own faction in most aspects of the game.

Even the character creation screen is redactable, and can place races in any possible order, without their dependency from their faction, so the third column can be added, too.

The problem here is pvp, because such plaulyers will inevitably be marking as Horde players, so they'll be sided with other Hrode members on BGs. However, it's solvable by adding ingame explaining that Illidari are in a state of fragile truce with the Horde.

[Mac]

Those playable Broken are fantastic. Really makes me want Illidari as a third playable faction with them, Blood Elves, Naga, and maybe Eredar and/or some kind of playable Demon race.

Greetings to all,

Your perspective is well-reasoned. Introducing an entirely new faction with fresh lore, distinct from the Burning Crusade’s Outland, while preserving the original vanilla factions, is indeed an ambitious endeavor. However, practical considerations come into play, particularly regarding time and financial feasibility.

Creating a new faction extends beyond the mere inclusion of two races. The goblin race’s development journey serves as a testament to the complexities involved. Imagining a new faction with multiple races, I humorously speculate that it might take a decade to complete—a timeline that could potentially hinder the server’s evolution and allow competitors to catch up with Turtle WoW. It’s essential to recognize that we are not Blizzard, and our resources and capabilities differ significantly. I would like some developer to comment on what is viable and what is not so that I can calibrate my suggestions, I feel like I am writing in the dark every time I create a topic.

Thank you for your engagement !

I'm not a dev but, theoretically speaking, you can avoid such complexities by imitating a third faction without its real implementation.

Let's say, we wanna create akin of Illidari faction. We're implementing racial restrictions to all existing Horde quests, so only Vanilla races + goblins can accept these quests. Then we're adding new races to the Horde - our "Illidari" races, and set their starting reputation with the Horde as "Hostile". Then we're creating Illidari quests with racial restrictions, so only Illidari races can accept these quests. Now your Illidari are imitating their own faction in most aspects of the game.

Even the character creation screen is redactable, and can place races in any possible order, without their dependency from their faction, so the third column can be added, too.

The problem here is pvp, because such plaulyers will inevitably be marking as Horde players, so they'll be sided with other Hrode members on BGs. However, it's solvable by adding ingame explaining that Illidari are in a state of fragile truce with the Horde.

This is a very interesting idea. Kudos!

And in regards to BGs, if they ever got the planned crossfaction BGs system implemented, even that wouldn’t be an issue.

[Adahel2162]

Those playable Broken are fantastic. Really makes me want Illidari as a third playable faction with them, Blood Elves, Naga, and maybe Eredar and/or some kind of playable Demon race.

Those playable Broken are fantastic. Really makes me want Illidari as a third playable faction with them, Blood Elves, Naga, and maybe Eredar and/or some kind of playable Demon race.

Greetings to all,

Your perspective is well-reasoned. Introducing an entirely new faction with fresh lore, distinct from the Burning Crusade’s Outland, while preserving the original vanilla factions, is indeed an ambitious endeavor. However, practical considerations come into play, particularly regarding time and financial feasibility.

Creating a new faction extends beyond the mere inclusion of two races. The goblin race’s development journey serves as a testament to the complexities involved. Imagining a new faction with multiple races, I humorously speculate that it might take a decade to complete—a timeline that could potentially hinder the server’s evolution and allow competitors to catch up with Turtle WoW. It’s essential to recognize that we are not Blizzard, and our resources and capabilities differ significantly. I would like some developer to comment on what is viable and what is not so that I can calibrate my suggestions, I feel like I am writing in the dark every time I create a topic.

Thank you for your engagement !

I'm not a dev but, theoretically speaking, you can avoid such complexities by imitating a third faction without its real implementation.

Let's say, we wanna create akin of Illidari faction. We're implementing racial restrictions to all existing Horde quests, so only Vanilla races + goblins can accept these quests. Then we're adding new races to the Horde - our "Illidari" races, and set their starting reputation with the Horde as "Hostile". Then we're creating Illidari quests with racial restrictions, so only Illidari races can accept these quests. Now your Illidari are imitating their own faction in most aspects of the game.

Even the character creation screen is redactable, and can place races in any possible order, without their dependency from their faction, so the third column can be added, too.

The problem here is pvp, because such plaulyers will inevitably be marking as Horde players, so they'll be sided with other Hrode members on BGs. However, it's solvable by adding ingame explaining that Illidari are in a state of fragile truce with the Horde.

Greetings to all,

Galendor, your knack for devising legendary solutions to a wide array of challenges never ceases to impress. The hurdles I currently perceive in this proposal are minimal and do not pose a significant barrier to the implementation of Mac’s original vision. Initially, the inclusion of the Naga as a race might face resistance from developers unless there are volunteers to craft the requisite animations for this potential race. Moreover, situating Outland as a leveling area for this third faction might feel out of place for the Naga, considering that only a few members made an alliance with Illidan.

Should the developers embrace this concept, I trust they would overlook the Blood Elves’ resemblance to the High Elves in terms of emotes and animations, given their identical race origins in the lore. Perhaps a shift towards Felblood Elves would add a touch of intrigue; their inability to become paladins, coupled with the introduction of Fel Orcs, could offer a compelling twist to this new faction’s narrative.

With the technicalities of implementation now behind us, it’s time to delve into the specifics of each race within the new third faction, including potential racial and class combinations. Admittedly, this is an area I tend to shy away from, as my creative prowess and class-balancing skills are somewhat limited.

There is undoubtedly space to further the discussion on a new faction. However, I urge members to also revisit the central theme and build upon the enlightening dialogue we’ve initiated. Let’s not allow the topic of adding two new races to the game—one for each faction—to wane. Please also share your thoughts on potential racial and class combinations about the races in the original thread, as this remains a more readily achievable goal, all while continuing the discourse initiated by Mac regarding a third faction. Your insights are invaluable, and I’m confident that by expanding our focus without losing sight of our initial intent, we can deepen our exploration of the subject and enhance our collective wisdom.

Thank you for your active participation and for enriching this vibrant forum with your perspectives. I eagerly anticipate our continued discussions on ‘New Races – Worgens & Ogres’ and ‘Illidari as a third playable faction’.

Should my tone come across as overly formal, do not hesitate to inform me. I’ve honed my language to ensure this topic thrives, unlike its predecessor.

Thank you for your engagement !

[Mac]

Those playable Broken are fantastic. Really makes me want Illidari as a third playable faction with them, Blood Elves, Naga, and maybe Eredar and/or some kind of playable Demon race.

Greetings to all,

Your perspective is well-reasoned. Introducing an entirely new faction with fresh lore, distinct from the Burning Crusade’s Outland, while preserving the original vanilla factions, is indeed an ambitious endeavor. However, practical considerations come into play, particularly regarding time and financial feasibility.

Creating a new faction extends beyond the mere inclusion of two races. The goblin race’s development journey serves as a testament to the complexities involved. Imagining a new faction with multiple races, I humorously speculate that it might take a decade to complete—a timeline that could potentially hinder the server’s evolution and allow competitors to catch up with Turtle WoW. It’s essential to recognize that we are not Blizzard, and our resources and capabilities differ significantly. I would like some developer to comment on what is viable and what is not so that I can calibrate my suggestions, I feel like I am writing in the dark every time I create a topic.

Thank you for your engagement !

I'm not a dev but, theoretically speaking, you can avoid such complexities by imitating a third faction without its real implementation.

Let's say, we wanna create akin of Illidari faction. We're implementing racial restrictions to all existing Horde quests, so only Vanilla races + goblins can accept these quests. Then we're adding new races to the Horde - our "Illidari" races, and set their starting reputation with the Horde as "Hostile". Then we're creating Illidari quests with racial restrictions, so only Illidari races can accept these quests. Now your Illidari are imitating their own faction in most aspects of the game.

Even the character creation screen is redactable, and can place races in any possible order, without their dependency from their faction, so the third column can be added, too.

The problem here is pvp, because such plaulyers will inevitably be marking as Horde players, so they'll be sided with other Hrode members on BGs. However, it's solvable by adding ingame explaining that Illidari are in a state of fragile truce with the Horde.

Greetings to all,

Galendor, your knack for devising legendary solutions to a wide array of challenges never ceases to impress. The hurdles I currently perceive in this proposal are minimal and do not pose a significant barrier to the implementation of Mac’s original vision. Initially, the inclusion of the Naga as a race might face resistance from developers unless there are volunteers to craft the requisite animations for this potential race. Moreover, situating Outland as a leveling area for this third faction might feel out of place for the Naga, considering that only a few members made an alliance with Illidan.

Should the developers embrace this concept, I trust they would overlook the Blood Elves’ resemblance to the High Elves in terms of emotes and animations, given their identical race origins in the lore. Perhaps a shift towards Felblood Elves would add a touch of intrigue; their inability to become paladins, coupled with the introduction of Fel Orcs, could offer a compelling twist to this new faction’s narrative.

With the technicalities of implementation now behind us, it’s time to delve into the specifics of each race within the new third faction, including potential racial and class combinations. Admittedly, this is an area I tend to shy away from, as my creative prowess and class-balancing skills are somewhat limited.

There is undoubtedly space to further the discussion on a new faction. However, I urge members to also revisit the central theme and build upon the enlightening dialogue we’ve initiated. Let’s not allow the topic of adding two new races to the game—one for each faction—to wane. Please also share your thoughts on potential racial and class combinations about the races in the original thread, as this remains a more readily achievable goal, all while continuing the discourse initiated by Mac regarding a third faction. Your insights are invaluable, and I’m confident that by expanding our focus without losing sight of our initial intent, we can deepen our exploration of the subject and enhance our collective wisdom.

Thank you for your active participation and for enriching this vibrant forum with your perspectives. I eagerly anticipate our continued discussions on ‘New Races – Worgens & Ogres’ and ‘Illidari as a third playable faction’.

Should my tone come across as overly formal, do not hesitate to inform me. I’ve honed my language to ensure this topic thrives, unlike its predecessor.

Thank you for your engagement !

K.

[Pangea]

To be honest, not to doubt the devs talents, but I think it would be too difficult for a private server to add in a third faction, especially something like Nagas. Other races are more doable like Draenei just being demons, fel elves or fel orcs but I don't see something like that happening. It would require a very serious patch.

[Kribbelfritz]

All I say is DARK IRON DWARFS. If we can have two type of elves why not another dwarven type too? I honestly cant see any other race more viable for alliance.

[Adahel2162]

To be honest, not to doubt the devs talents, but I think it would be too difficult for a private server to add in a third faction, especially something like Nagas. Other races are more doable like Draenei just being demons, fel elves or fel orcs but I don't see something like that happening. It would require a very serious patch.

Greetings to all,

I concur with your viewpoint. Races lacking emote animations and mount animations, such as nagas, will not be accepted.

In the present landscape, the argument that race implementation is hindered by the difficulty of implementing armor holds little sway in my assessment, because certain private servers have already implemented many races with armor.

From the outset, I've maintained a stringent stance on race acceptance, contingent upon the presence of emote and mount animations.

Regarding the prospect of introducing a third faction, I acknowledge that it necessitates a substantial patch. However, I've entertained discussions about this as a secondary topic for several reasons:

- Mac and Galendor have consistently championed this topic.

- Turtle WoW exhibits indications that it may eventually develop its own iteration of Outland.

- Outland's vastness precludes it from functioning solely as a max-level zone, dungeon, or raid. It unequivocally serves as a leveling area. Any alterations disrupting its existing status quo would exacerbate its monotony relative to the retail version.

- Given that Turtle WoW level cap is 60, the only viable approach to incorporate Outland lies in introducing it as a third faction. Thus, the concept initially proposed by Mac and further elaborated by Galendor warrants serious consideration.

The central discourse remains centered around the inclusion of two races—one for each faction. This objective is infinitely more straightforward to achieve than introducing an entirely new faction. For the Horde, the most plausible option is ogres, while the Alliance has several candidates: worgen, the retconned broken draenei, pandaren, and perhaps furbolgs (provided someone develops the requisite emote animations and missing mount animation). Notably, furbolgs possess most emotes by default, although the dance emote remains absent. Refer to the main topic for additional context.

All I say is DARK IRON DWARFS. If we can have two type of elves why not another dwarven type too? I honestly cant see any other race more viable for alliance.

Have you perused the topic?

A secondary type of elf, whose only distinction lies in their name aligned with the lore, would find acceptance solely within a third faction—neither Alliance nor Horde—the Illidari.

However, introducing the Dark Iron Dwarf to the Alliance would amount to a mere rehash of the Dwarf race from the same faction, complete with identical emote animations. Such a proposal would undoubtedly be met with disapproval from the developers. I implore everyone to familiarize themselves with the Turtle WoW development principle at the beginning of the topic before posting such an ill-conceived notion.

Thank you for your engagement !

[Adahel2162]

Hi there !
I just want to open the reflexions with some things that i had in mind after reading a lot of things on the subject of a third faction :

First, There is a post suggesting Illidari as a third faction, and i do think it's cool. In this case i would completly agree to put Forsaken with them instead of th Horde to be fair, but that would change to much of the gameplay.
Horde would need a new set of zones for the ogres that would be enough to replace forsaken.

This new faction (let's say illidari that fits the theme of 'evil outcasts' instead of 'savage and nobles outcasts' of the horde) would then need it's own zones, at least until they can go to the neutral questhubs like tanaris, stranglethorn etc. (For illidari, Outland could be their zone, but i would need to be add a whole new continent that should have some interest for the 2 others factions.

Lastly, in Vanilla wow, both Horde and alliance have their own class : Shaman and Paladin, both having theoretically ways to heal, tank and DPS and being in the flavor of the faction.
In the case of the illidari, that would mean Demon hunter as a obvious choice, but it woul be a far different class that the one we have in retail. A class that is maybe more offensive than shaman and paladin but that still retains the supportive side.
In any case, that means to make from scratch a new class. A version of WotLK Death knight could be used, but i would need severe changes and nerfs.

Finally, we need races; At least 5 to go with the Twow number for each faction. All with their animations, voice lines etc.
To take once again my illidari exemple, the obvious choice would be Naga, Fel orcs, Draenei, Blood elves (maybe more demonics, like fel elves ?) and then the Forsaken we moved from the Horde. And in that case, all race must have their own set of animations etc (and i would argue that Fel orcs should be tweak a little bit to not be just copied orcs). One more thing that just popped in my mind is that it would have a lot of elf-related leaders with Illidan (alive or dead after the end of TfT ?), Kael-thas, Sylvanas and vashj being elves or having an elf heritage.

Sorry if my english is not perfect, i just want to share some thought here. I truly think that a thord faction would be rad and i would love for it to happen (and finally having my dream of playing ogre come true) !

Greetings to all,

I appreciate that you were among the few who truly grasped the information conveyed in my topic. Thank you.

However, our opinions diverge significantly regarding the proposed changes. Allow me to elaborate:

- Developer Ideology: While I strive to adhere to the developers' ideology of maximizing the use of animations from the pre-Warlords of Draenor expansions and avoiding repetition of animations among existing races, your perspective takes a different and ambitious path. Specifically, you advocate for creating entirely new animations for
all races from the new faction, like the incomplete nagas, which currently lack emote animations and mount animations. Additionally, you propose refining the fel orc animations to distinguish them from orcs and advocate for unique animations across all races from the new faction.

- Adding New Animations: I don't wish to dampen spirits, but it's worth noting that adding new animations to existing skeletons is no trivial task. Such an endeavor involves creating animations from scratch, which demands considerable effort and expertise.

- Turtle WoW's Evolution: Turtle WoW, initially a fan project, has evolved into a business—a private server seeking profitability. While there's nothing inherently wrong with this shift, it prompts a critical question: Why invest substantial effort in a differentiating feature to attract more players when the server is already saturated? From a pragmatic standpoint, Turtle WoW's focus should be on maintaining its existing player base.

- Implementing Epic Features: Implementing epic features like the ones discussed faces two potential scenarios:

- Competition Pressure: If rival projects begin drawing players away from Turtle WoW, the need for strategic action becomes evident. In such cases, introducing novel features could help retain or regain players.

- Financial Backing: Alternatively, an individual with substantial resources—perhaps even yourself—could approach the server owner and fund the entire implementation of these features as a passionate fan, but you'd understand that the endeavor might ultimately result in financial losses.

In summary, I am trying to approach this rationally. I'm merely the messenger—please don't shoot me!

Thank you for your engagement !

[Sleeplust]

The controllable worgen race in the game (including Cataclysm) are physically human victims of the worgen curse without a long history. To make the game more like it originally looks, worgen race should be made optional for human race players.

[Adahel2162]

The controllable worgen race in the game (including Cataclysm) are physically human victims of the worgen curse without a long history. To make the game more like it originally looks, worgen race should be made optional for human race players.

Greetings to all,

I wholeheartedly concur with the notion that Worgen could be a fascinating optional branch of the human race.

Insights gleaned from a Russian-speaking private server have illuminated the feasibility of fully integrating the Alliance Worgen as a viable race.

They could stand proudly beside the Horde Ogres as the final races I yearn to see on this server.

However, a word of caution: for the Worgen to seamlessly blend as an optional human race, they must possess the Enable Worgen Altered Form ability showcased in Cataclysm. The success of this integration hinges on our private server's commitment to avoiding a lackluster implementation—a pitfall others have unfortunately succumbed to.

The open-source scripts from emulated Cataclysm are available and should be leveraged to honor the Worgen with the implementation they truly merit.

While I remain opposed to the introduction of the Broken Draenei, owing to its retcon nature akin to the Draenei, I acknowledge the Worgen's rising potential as a viable alternative. Nonetheless, I will honor the consensus of the community.

As for the Pandaren, I remain opposed because I believe their place is intrinsically tied to the continent of Pandaria—a sentiment that will resonate with those who have experienced Mists of Pandaria.

Thank you for your engagement !

[Adahel2162]

Glad to see some cues from Epoch are being taken. I hope this continues.

Greetings to all,

I had intended to write this post sooner, but various commitments, coupled with sleep disturbances, delayed my response—though a reply wasn’t necessary until now.

I trust you are all doing well. It’s with a touch of melancholy that I reflect on the conclusion of our topic—a subject we’ve all enriched through our collective engagement. This forum has been a dynamic space for dialogue, and the enthusiasm we’ve shared has been truly remarkable.

The organic reach of this topic—garnering 1940 views at the time of penning this post—fills me with pride. Yet, it’s disheartening that such a widely appreciated discussion, rich in technical nuance, has reached a exhaustion of new ideas despite my efforts to fuel ongoing conversation.

As a programmer whose expertise lies outside the realm of gaming or World of Warcraft emulation, my aim was never to be the definitive source of information. Instead, I sought to contribute ideas informed by my programming background and insights from this forum, inviting corrections and insights from members like Galendor. My familiarity with just-in-time compiled languages like C# and Java contrasts with my limited patience for C++.

While I understand that all good things must come to an end, I cannot help but feel a sense of loss for what could have been—an ongoing exchange of insights and a deeper exploration of the subject at hand—perhaps even eliciting developer feedback.

As we bid farewell to this topic, I express my deepest appreciation for your invaluable input, with a special mention to Galendor for being a pivotal figure in this discourse. The exchange of ideas here has been the cornerstone of our discussions, and I cherish the moments of shared learning.

Thank you for the memories and wisdom you imparted. Let’s look forward to igniting our passion for discourse with new topics in the future.

I must also convey my disappointment regarding Gladeshadow’s observation—that our Private Server seems more inclined to draw inspiration from external sources rather than heed the suggestions vocalized in our own forum.

While adopting strategies from other platforms is not inherently flawed, the rapidity with which Turtle WoW has emulated ideas from rival servers is cause for concern. The server in question has been under development for over two years, opting for more like a game remaster instead of adding a lot of custom content like Turtle WoW does—a bold move that ultimately fell short of his community’s expectations, resulting in a beta with pre-alpha quality riddled with bugs and crashes. They are not worthy competitors.

Today, as I write this, I’m recovering from a severe burnout, exacerbated by stress-related green and liquid diarrhea. This has fueled my frustration with Turtle WoW’s approach of chasing hype by mimicking unsuccessful servers. I earnestly hope that Turtle WoW’s developers will prioritize our community’s suggestions and steer clear of imitating competitors solely for the sake of hype—competitors who, in their hubris, have self-destructed.

Unless there’s a compelling new post that demands my attention, this may well be my final contribution to this topic. Meanwhile, I’m already formulating my next set of suggestions.

Thank you for your engagement !

[Mac]

The controllable worgen race in the game (including Cataclysm) are physically human victims of the worgen curse without a long history. To make the game more like it originally looks, worgen race should be made optional for human race players.

Interesting idea. Like a questline for Humans only where they get the Worgen curse, and in so doing lose their Human racials but gain Worgen ones?