Geolock for chinese

[Kazel9090]

When chinese server is online pls make a geolock so they cant join the english server

[Geojak]

There are Chinese players that naturally integrated into the English community or have been playing for years and never been an issue.

No geolock.

Instead, make Chinese usage on the western server bannable even in guild chat. First time mute, second time 1 day lockout and ingame Mail in Chinese instructing to free transfer or use English

[Reploidrocsa]

Yes to geolock, but with queue.

If main server reaches 7k pop all chinese players that try to log in are in que until server goes below 7k pop

Otherwise china server won't get properly populated and will have china server half empty and overcrowded main server

[Karrados]

That's the problem: If they won't lock the Original Turtle Server then their work on the Chinese will probably be mostly wasted. Why would someone want to transfer to a Server that will basically have no AH economy aside from what the people will take with them?

I am not saying that no one will transfer but people might be surprised how many Chinese will opt to remain for reasons.

[Kirric]

That's the problem: If they won't lock the Original Turtle Server then their work on the Chinese will probably be mostly wasted. Why would someone want to transfer to a Server that will basically have no AH economy aside from what the people will take with them?

I am not saying that no one will transfer but people might be surprised how many Chinese will opt to remain for reasons.

There are Chinese players that naturally integrated into the English community or have been playing for years and never been an issue.

No geolock.

Instead, make Chinese usage on the western server bannable even in guild chat. First time mute, second time 1 day lockout and ingame Mail in Chinese instructing to free transfer or use English

I agree with this. If you have Chinese who are able and willing to speak English and only English, let them stay. English is not my native language, yet I only speak English on the server. Funny thing, League of Legends tried to do this in Europe like, 10 years ago or so. Originally there was one server for Europe, and everyone disliked Polish and Russian players because they never spoke English and was just swearing in their own language at people non stop. Then they had to split the European server in two, and they decided to go with EU West and EU Nordic and East. Lets just say NONE of the Nordic countries (Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland) were happy with this, most of them speaking exclusively English - now being forced to play exclusively with the infamous non-English speaking side. What happened? All the Nordic players I knew just moved to EU West.

So let the Chinese players who want to stay on the "West" side and speak English do so, and for those who keep using Chinese give them strikes. 1 strike: give them a warning and inform of transfer eligibility. 2 strikes: give them a 1-2 day lockout and warn them of forced transfer upon further transgressions. 3 strikes: forced transfer.

Strikes would be given as other players report them for speaking Chinese in chat, which would include (repeated) blank messages (western clients not being able to display their characters), as well as empty link [] messages.

[Szalord]

So let the Chinese players who want to stay on the "West" side and speak English do so, and for those who keep using Chinese give them strikes. 1 strike: give them a warning and inform of transfer eligibility. 2 strikes: give them a 1-2 day lockout and warn them of forced transfer upon further transgressions. 3 strikes: forced transfer.

Strikes would be given as other players report them for speaking Chinese in chat, which would include (repeated) blank messages (western clients not being able to display their characters), as well as empty link [] messages.

I hope you have at least a tiny idea of how much more work this solution of yours requires, versus just a simple geolock. Sure, the geolock WILL unfairly screw up legit people who actually want to integrate the community, but maybe this is the way to go and someone will have to bite the bullet.

[Azuladrip]

I agree with this. If you have Chinese who are able and willing to speak English and only English, let them stay. English is not my native language, yet I only speak English on the server. Funny thing, League of Legends tried to do this in Europe like, 10 years ago or so. Originally there was one server for Europe, and everyone disliked Polish and Russian players because they never spoke English and was just swearing in their own language at people non stop. Then they had to split the European server in two, and they decided to go with EU West and EU Nordic and East. Lets just say NONE of the Nordic countries (Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland) were happy with this, most of them speaking exclusively English - now being forced to play exclusively with the infamous non-English speaking side. What happened? All the Nordic players I knew just moved to EU West.

So let the Chinese players who want to stay on the "West" side and speak English do so, and for those who keep using Chinese give them strikes. 1 strike: give them a warning and inform of transfer eligibility. 2 strikes: give them a 1-2 day lockout and warn them of forced transfer upon further transgressions. 3 strikes: forced transfer.

Strikes would be given as other players report them for speaking Chinese in chat, which would include (repeated) blank messages (western clients not being able to display their characters), as well as empty link [] messages.

While I agree with you, the problem is that the moderators that should be banning the people talking in Chinese clearly aren't doing so, as evidenced by experience you will have walking through Stormwind. If they were actually interested in solving the problem, all it would take is a few days of consistently banning people to set an example and then the Chinese players would force their behavior to avoid getting banned. But all the reluctance on their part to apply the banhammer has achieved the opposite as from what I'm hearing now even Russians and other nationalities have stopped following the rules as much since they see the Chinese breaking the rules every day, so why shouldn't they?

And what you said about about League is true, and the same is true for DOTA. Russians and Ukrainians queue on the Western servers because they don't want to play with their own.

This is why I have to rain on the parade of anyone who thinks things will go back to normal in October when the new server launches. Spoiler: they won't. Unless the Turtle team makes an actual commitment to globally monitor the chats on the Western servers and purge people who aren't speaking English, it won't happen.

Quite frankly I think we should set our expectations incredibly low. At best, there might not be a queue in the future or it might not be as bad. But I don't see the Chinese going anywhere.

[Geojak]

So let the Chinese players who want to stay on the "West" side and speak English do so, and for those who keep using Chinese give them strikes. 1 strike: give them a warning and inform of transfer eligibility. 2 strikes: give them a 1-2 day lockout and warn them of forced transfer upon further transgressions. 3 strikes: forced transfer.

Strikes would be given as other players report them for speaking Chinese in chat, which would include (repeated) blank messages (western clients not being able to display their characters), as well as empty link [] messages.

I hope you have at least a tiny idea of how much more work this solution of yours requires, versus just a simple geolock. Sure, the geolock WILL unfairly screw up legit people who actually want to integrate the community, but maybe this is the way to go and someone will have to bite the bullet.

You can't even wrzie Chinese characters without an external software hack currently. If this Software coild be detected, banning Chinese langunse on western server would be as simple as abc

[Lexiebean]

I know vanilla WoW is an old game. But that doesn't mean that we should LARP like it's still 2004.

VPNs became popular in the early 2010s.

In 2023, a geolock would be completely ineffective.

[Shaman111]

fortunately you can detect and ban vpns. i just want to see the forums once cn server hits, fills up with new chinese and the old chinese just stay here. the shitflinging is going to be legendary beyond measure

[Azuladrip]

I know vanilla WoW is an old game. But that doesn't mean that we should LARP like it's still 2004.

VPNs became popular in the early 2010s.

In 2023, a geolock would be completely ineffective.

You should educate yourself before you talk, VPNs are easily detectable and are blocked on multiple services and websites. The reason you can use VPN for some things is because the companies in question are aware of it and largely allow it (like Netflix, for example).

VPNs aren't magic.

[Kirric]

So let the Chinese players who want to stay on the "West" side and speak English do so, and for those who keep using Chinese give them strikes. 1 strike: give them a warning and inform of transfer eligibility. 2 strikes: give them a 1-2 day lockout and warn them of forced transfer upon further transgressions. 3 strikes: forced transfer.

Strikes would be given as other players report them for speaking Chinese in chat, which would include (repeated) blank messages (western clients not being able to display their characters), as well as empty link [] messages.

I hope you have at least a tiny idea of how much more work this solution of yours requires, versus just a simple geolock. Sure, the geolock WILL unfairly screw up legit people who actually want to integrate the community, but maybe this is the way to go and someone will have to bite the bullet.

I don't deny you being right there. I would not mind it myself, as it would not effect me in any way while removing most/all Chinese, which I consider a win. Just trying to have a fair take on the situation. I think the real problem is as someone mentioned that the moderators are not taking action on their own rules. Their rules clearly state that English is to be used, they frame it as "You can only used other languages in guild recruiting messages and in non-leveling/non-crowded areas". I don't think anyone is going to try to argue that there are "non-crowded areas" in the game anymore, everywhere is smack full. Therefore English should always be used, but GM's are not enforcing the rules.

So, the problem remains. If they do not follow the rules now they likely are not going to enforce a strike system like I mentioned, and they are likely not going to enforce a geolock either.

[Inovatu]

English only is only in /World, Newcomers and Still Alive Guildchat and some others
sadly no groupchat, yell or say

[Kirric]

English only is only in /World, Newcomers and Still Alive Guildchat and some others
sadly no groupchat, yell or say

"Here at Turtle WoW, we encourage players to come together, form communities, and openly chat with their fellow players. There are some chat rules that we must insist upon to maintain healthy and family-friendly vibe on our server.

The rule set for the following public channels: /world, guild chat of <Still Alive>, guild chat of <Newcomers>, /trade, any crowded leveling or recreation zones:

Public chats are English speaking only. The only exception are guild recruitment announcements, those can be in your native language."

Any crowded leveling or recreation zones should be English only. I do not know how you interpret that to mean /yell or /say is excluded.

[Azuladrip]

English only is only in /World, Newcomers and Still Alive Guildchat and some others
sadly no groupchat, yell or say

That's because those rules were made at a time when there were so few players that saying something in /say or /yell would reach only a person or two. That isn't how it is anymore.

As another poster said in a different thread, it's the letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law. No reasonable person would say that you should get banned for posting in another language in /general Moonglade or some other zone that might have one or two players, but then say that spamming in Chinese in /say /yell in Stormwind or Goldshire is okay. The level of disingenuous required to make that argument is beyond the pale.

The reason the rules were lax before is because obviously if two Germans were randomly roleplaying in Westfall and you read German as you rode by and they were roleplaying, that wouldn't really affect you. It wasn't so that the Chinese could basically completely take over /say and /yell and render them completely unusable for every other player, which is the case now. They have absolutely zero respect for the server and the player base.

[Suriel666]

I can guarantee you guys that this will be the downfall of Turtle WoW if the devs don't do anything about this issue. If my Saturday gets screwed up because of the freaking queue, then why even play on this server? I don't wanna wait until China goes night-night to play, which is all the more infuriating considering that I only have time to play games during weekends.

Create a 2nd chinese-only realm and block them from playing on the english speaking server. I don't give a shit if this causes a few individuals here and there to be unfairly treated. The interests of the majority should be catered to and not those of minorities. We already have this shit in politics, we don't need it here. The overwhelming majority of the players want a seperate server for the chinese. It's not just because of the language barrier, it's primarily due to the fact that we have an obvious culture clash here. Many chinese players behave like their equivalent, notorious tourists when they visit foreign countries: they obnoxiously disregard the netiquette of the game (mass spamming the chat as the commenter above me already mentioned, frequent ninja looting, undercutting prices at the AH, etc.) and all that because their mentality puts personal gain and winning above all else including the social aspects of the game. Sure, not all of them behave like this, but they are the exception and not the rule. We have a massive culture clash here and there is only one way of solving this problem and that is by creating a seperate server.

[Shaman111]

english playerbase will just leave for the other vanilla+ projects. not that anyone at twow will notice, with 12500 online still and more cashflow than ever

[Geojak]

English only is only in /World, Newcomers and Still Alive Guildchat and some others
sadly no groupchat, yell or say

Then this needs to be changed ASAP or latest with the Asian server up. Even Chinese guild chat can not be tolerated or we will still end up with a large part of community segregating themselfes from the rest onyl. Chatting in their Chinese guild chat

[Azuladrip]

english playerbase will just leave for the other vanilla+ projects. not that anyone at twow will notice, with 12500 online still and more cashflow than ever

They'll notice eventually because these Chinese numbers won't last. Let's not forget, Turtle WoW has been around for YEARS. And we had Chinese guilds on the server before without issue and they never bothered anyone. What's happening now is that someone in China decided to fuck over both us and the Chinese player base by advertising Turtle to a wide audience. It's questionable whether these newcomers are Vanilla fans at all, or just bored kids with nothing to do who just decided to get Turtle because they saw other people doing it.

But sooner or later, they will get bored and move on to something else. The question is whether or not there'll be any sense of community left here with old players leaving left and right. The cozy, tightly-knit sense of friendly community has definitely evaporated at this point. I mean, they literally have to put the Discord on lockdown, lol. What does that tell you about the health of the community right now? And it's only getting worse.

[Geojak]

You can't blame solely Chinese newcomers to the toxic twow community. Twow has been pretty toxic for a long time at the top end. Ad the look down was mostly due to anti Chinese racism
Again can't blame the Chinese for that one either

[Azuladrip]

English only is only in /World, Newcomers and Still Alive Guildchat and some others
sadly no groupchat, yell or say

Then this needs to be changed ASAP or latest with the Asian server up. Even Chinese guild chat can not be tolerated or we will still end up with a large part of community segregating themselfes from the rest onyl. Chatting in their Chinese guild chat

Yeah, the problem with these rules is that they were made when the idea was that the server would naturally be largely English-speaking, with maybe a handful of Russian, German, Spanish guilds, etc. Basically a fraction of the population. When you played months ago and saw some guy from <Tai Hao Wan La> it wasn't a problem because you'd see one every blue moon and it was fine. But now you see mostly Chinese or at least half depending on your timezone. It's slowly becoming an English server in name only.

We had common sense rules in place that would allow flexibility for certain minorities, but we're no longer dealing with a minority. They're drowning us out and English-speakers are the new minority.

Besides, I imagine those rules were set up that way so people from another country wouldn't be forced not to use their language arbitrarily. Like, if you're German, you probably want to speak to other Germans in German. But I can't imagine they drew up those rules thinking that those who would occasionally speak in their own language wouldn't be able to speak English AT ALL, which is the problem with the Chinese. It's not that their English isn't ideal and we're just xenophobic. It's fucking non-existent. If you write in English, most of them literally just ignore you.

[Kalisperis]

You can't blame solely Chinese newcomers to the toxic twow community. Twow has been pretty toxic for a long time at the top end. Ad the look down was mostly due to anti Chinese racism
Again can't blame the Chinese for that one either

You can't "blame" anyone. It's a free to play server for everyone, which means free access to everyone. They just got a LOT more people in this world that we do, but that is not a crime :P

Also, from their point of view, they are not even the minority here. They could very well argue that WE need a new server, not them.

[Shaman111]

They could very well argue that WE need a new server, not them.

i hope this becomes a trend. white pig go home

[Azuladrip]

You can't "blame" anyone. It's a free to play server for everyone, which means free access to everyone. They just got a LOT more people in this world that we do, but that is not a crime :P

Also, from their point of view, they are not even the minority here. They could very well argue that WE need a new server, not them.

I know you and others are saying that as a joke, but it honestly would've been a genius idea. Just leave this as the "international" server and open another strictly English-only server where you aren't allowed to use anything else under any circumstance.

From the Chinese POV, I can see why they would feel maligned. It must feel like we're specifically targeting them to get rid of. Which I guess is true, but it's not based in anti-Chinese sentiments (I'd hope), just on the reality of sheer numbers.

Again, it's not like the Chinese weren't here before. <Tai Hao Wan La> and <Surviving Heroes(?)> were both Chinese guilds. And life was fine. But there's just way too many of them now, that's the issue.

[Kalisperis]

They could very well argue that WE need a new server, not them.

i hope this becomes a trend. white pig go home

Well let's look at the facts. For the past month, EVERY DAY, you have to wait for them to go to sleep to actually play (you can wait for a 4,200 queue, but you get massive lag even if you log in) and all we got was a "server is coming, in the meantime we can't/won't do anything".

I wouldn't be surprised at this point if there was an announcement saying that it's easier for us to go to a new server than fix all this.

You can't "blame" anyone. It's a free to play server for everyone, which means free access to everyone. They just got a LOT more people in this world that we do, but that is not a crime :P

Also, from their point of view, they are not even the minority here. They could very well argue that WE need a new server, not them.

I know you and others are saying that as a joke, but it honestly would've been a genius idea. Just leave this as the "international" server and open another strictly English-only server where you aren't allowed to use anything else under any circumstance.

From the Chinese POV, I can see why they would feel maligned. It must feel like we're specifically targeting them to get rid of. Which I guess is true, but it's not based in anti-Chinese sentiments (I'd hope), just on the reality of sheer numbers.

Again, it's not like the Chinese weren't here before. <Tai Hao Wan La> and <Surviving Heroes(?)> were both Chinese guilds. And life was fine. But there's just way too many of them now, that's the issue.

Exactly. My only problem is with the numbers, I have nothing against them as people, except for the fact that they refuse to talk in English.

But as far as i know this is supposed to be a "Stricly english-only server", but this ship has sailed

[Geojak]

They could very well argue that WE need a new server, not them.

i hope this becomes a trend. white pig go home

Hey don't fake quote me. I never said that. Fix that

[Shaman111]

not my fault posting bugged out

>Fix that

uh oh make me lmao

[Edgarfam]

The reason for a Chinese server is that most and a lot of Chinese players are communicating in their own language and not integrated into English community.

There are far more Chinese-speaking player there than English-speaking players, and they are eagerly waiting to go to the new server. When new server established, the new server will be Chinese based and more populated. They have every reason to transfer.

However, some speaking-English Chinese players will choose to stay, and what's the reason for the geolock? Only selfish an exclusiveness.

[Ctxfenris]

They don't enforce their own server rules with the Chinese players because Shenna is selling tigers. The "GMs" are all bootlickers who won't do anything about the issues with China. Don't worry, Cloudflare is pulling out their DDOS protection soon and this server will be dead. Rest in piss.

[Azuladrip]

They don't enforce their own server rules with the Chinese players because Shenna is selling tigers. The "GMs" are all bootlickers who won't do anything about the issues with China. Don't worry, Cloudflare is pulling out their DDOS protection soon and this server will be dead. Rest in piss.

That's pretty much the main problem. I don't really blame the Chinese. For 99% of them, this isn't their server, they have no time invested here, and they won't care once it goes down and they move on to the next thing.

But out of all people, you'd expect the actual fucking mods and team behind the game to enforce the rules, keep the peace, and make sure the server is stable and still going.

Pretty much every decision they made is disastrous. They want to open a Chinese server when the Chinese specifically do not want to play on a server of their own. They are banning people for the most inconsequential shit because of one or two reports, but Chinese players are allowed to nonstop spam [ ] in every fucking hub and NOTHING happens. Oh, and instead of putting a cap on the server that's still playable so that at least you could do something if you logged in, they raised it to so high that even if you did sit in the 1h queue, all you're getting is a latency-ridden experience in which you can barely do anything. And this is without mentioning that they're alienating their oldest players by telling them they're just dumb and racist for not wanting to play in this way, as if this is somehow normal or sustainable.

I've never seen anyone speedrun something into the ground so fast, except maybe Blizzard.

[Shaman111]

Cloudflare is pulling out their DDOS protection soon

Care to elaborate?

Anywayi am just thinking the cn server will be purely a donation raking operation to double the profits. Not a single person will move from here and theres just gonna be two 13k servers with 4k quenes and lag

[Ishilu]

There are Chinese players that naturally integrated into the English community or have been playing for years and never been an issue.

No geolock.

Instead, make Chinese usage on the western server bannable even in guild chat. First time mute, second time 1 day lockout and ingame Mail in Chinese instructing to free transfer or use English

This. Can we toss in cyrillic letters for good measure?