Rework low level recipes

[Xudo]

Thread started from discussing carpentry, but this is standalone point.
Please, make existing professions viable during leveling. Because now 90% of recipes are useless.

I write about blacksmithing, but there are a lot of questions to other professions too.
We have battlegrounds bracketed at 19, 29, 39, 49.
I think professions could help to prepare for battlegrounds and provide gear with stats for people who miss some quests.
During regular leveling you also has gearing problem. You pick profession and expect reliable source of gear, but it is don't work that way.

For example boots. What boots can we craft?
at 10-19
Rough Bronze Boots https://database.turtle-wow.org/?spell=7817
require lvl 13. no stats. just armor. You probably won't equip them for 10-19.
Next possible boots are Silvered Bronze Boots https://database.turtle-wow.org/?spell=3331
and they even have stats 4str 4sta 3spi, but they require lvl 21.
May be we can use silvered boots for 20-29? No, because there is
Green Iron Boots https://database.turtle-wow.org/?spell=3334
7sta 3str, require lvl 24

Silver is super rare, because it spawns in Iron locations, not in Tin ones.
Silvered boots will last for 3 levels. Upgrade uses other materials and higher skill, but everything can be bought on AH or farmed with help of +5 lvl buddy.

what about 30-39?
Barbaric Iron Boots https://database.turtle-wow.org/?spell=9818
7str 7agi, require lvl 31
Polished Steel Boots https://database.turtle-wow.org/?spell=3513
11 stam, require lvl 32
Golden Scale Boots https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=3847
8 str 8spi, require lvl 35
Looks reasonable. There are boots with high damage or with high stamina or something for paladins

what about 40-49?
Ornate Mithril Boots https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=7936
1% dodge and cool on-use spell for PvP, require lvl 44, Plate
Heavy Mithril Boots https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=7933
12 stamina, require lvl 42. Plate ones
no mail boots for 40-49

Regarding 50-59.
Thorium Boots https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=12409
have +7 to each resistance. Looks like devs had no idea what stats to put there. I have no idea when I could with to equip them. item to disenchant
There are also Radiant Boots https://database.turtle-wow.org/?spell=16656
with 15 frost and shadow resistance. Hunters and shamans suffer from frost and shadow that much? item to disenchant
Imperial Plate Boots https://database.turtle-wow.org/?spell=16657
13str 12sta, plate, require lvl 54
the only thing I could potentially equip
Runic Plate Boots https://database.turtle-wow.org/?spell=16665
10 fire and nature resistance, require lvl 55. Item to disenchant.
No blue boots for 50-60 while there are a lot of other blue items.
No viable mail boots for 50-60.

May be we could craft good weapon to level arms warrior?
No.
we have cool Copper Battle Axe https://database.turtle-wow.org/?spell=3293
3sta, lvl 8
next axe is Bronze Axe https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=2849
no stats, lvl 18
next axe is Bronze Battle Axe https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=7958
no stats, lvl 22
next axe is Massive Iron Axe https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=3855
11str 7sta, lvl 32
Edge of Winter https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=17704
3sta with proc on hit, lvl 33
Shadow Crescent Axe https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=3856
next axe is Huge Thorium Battleaxe https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=12775
+10 two-handed axe skill, lvl 51

Why axes for level 18 and 22 have no stats? Why they are so close to eachother? I'd put some axe to lvl 12-14 to make gradual progress.
Why there is no two-handed axes for 40 lvl?
Why cool axes for 33 and 35 require sophisticated ingredients and have mediocre stats. Idea is good, but people just won't bother crafting.

I don't know how blizz tried to design early recipes, but they look completely weird.

[Szachmatsky]

Please, make existing professions viable during leveling. Because now 90% of recipes are useless.

I think the same and I always like to lvl up my profession with my character, but 90% of items I create/can create are useless.

[Massie2]

To provide some context why Blizzard added so many dogshit white items with 0 stats to professions:
Back in WoW Alpha, pretty much all items gave stats, even white ones from vendors etc. and the amount of stats per item was much lower (more similar to Warcraft 3).
So the Rough Bronze Boots for example would have had like +1 STR or something.
This was then changed to make white items completely stat-less, but without adapting professions, resulting in invalidating a lot of lower level gear by either removing all stats, or never increasing the stat-budget from WC3 design.

[Projecx]

Was just thinking about this. Silver for blacksmithing needs to be removed from lower level recipes because it's not possible to obtain silver until you have out leveled the item.

Too many White weapons with low dps for low level as well. Their dps values need to be raised to have any type of usefulness.

I'm not saying it needs to be made into easy mode, just brought up to the point of usefulness at least.

[Ravenstone]

I like the idea, though it seems like a lot of effort. Could easily be done piecemeal if needed.

Was thinking it'd be nice if the items also had random spread on all stats, with the spread decreasing until the item recipe becomes green/grey say, to show progress and improvement of the players skill.

[Remmo87]

+1

[Icedtea12]

Good idea.

[Kefke]

I'll agree with this. Right now, low level blacksmithing is a maybe good option for Hardcores if the drop rates just aren't in their favour, or a money farm that's not as good as other options.

[Markuis]

+1 Professions could use a rework.

[Xudo]

Was just thinking about this. Silver for blacksmithing needs to be removed from lower level recipes because it's not possible to obtain silver until you have out leveled the item.

I think it is ok to have rare ingredient for special crafts. You can buy it on individual basis. The only difference of silver from... Iridescent pearl is that you need to use your existing profession.
Though, I feel there is a problem of locating resources in too-high-level areas, which worth standalone discussion.

[Projecx]

Was just thinking about this. Silver for blacksmithing needs to be removed from lower level recipes because it's not possible to obtain silver until you have out leveled the item.

I think it is ok to have rare ingredient for special crafts. You can buy it on individual basis. The only difference of silver from... Iridescent pearl is that you need to use your existing profession.
Though, I feel there is a problem of locating resources in too-high-level areas, which worth standalone discussion.

This is the recipe I'm referring to

https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=3489

It's a level 12 one handed axe. But it requires 2 silver bars. Silver only spawns in level 15 or higher zones, and it's rare to spawn at that. The reagents level don't match the item level. Either the item needs to be buffed, or the reagents need to be nerfed imho.

[Geojak]

silver is realrey looted from mobs even at very low lvl. its ok to need 2 for a lvl 12 craft imo.

[Kefke]

silver is realrey looted from mobs even at very low lvl. its ok to need 2 for a lvl 12 craft imo.

Not really. That's a low drop rate on a big table. The amount of grinding someone would have to do to get silver reliably would be pretty likely to push them past the item level.

[Geojak]

thats why you can trade in mmo's

[Xudo]

thats why you can trade in mmo's

Silver bar is 10 silver per item buyout.
Silver ore is 14 silver per item buyout.
You can reliably dig it in locations of 25+ lvl: Wetlands and Ashenvale.
Copper bar 30 silver per stack buyout.

This item also need light leather to craft. I think it is ok to buy leather from guy of your level, but buying items of higher level to craft low level item is not good design.
Silver bar could be easily replaced with shadowgem or elixir of minor fortitude. You still need to trade, but with equal contragents.
But you probably won't bother and go ask someone to help you with Deep Blue Sea https://database.turtle-wow.org/?quest=60131 with Orcish Cleaver https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=4949 as reward with 10.6 dps instead of 8.6

Next crafted one-handed axe is Heavy Mithril Axe https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=7941
Mithril, Carl! Bronze and Iron and steel and even thorium are completely skipped.
You sure can get gear in dungeons, but you can get bad luck. Or you can be first-time player who don't familliar with dungeons yet. In short, you need some backfill for bad luck.

[Geojak]

Deep Blue Sea https://database.turtle-wow.org/?quest=60131 with Orcish Cleaver https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=4949 as reward with 10.6 dps instead of 8.6

This is completely busted and should be nerfed imo

[Mac]

The lowest level silvered stuff is level 20. You can reliably mine silver Ashenvale in the western area of the zone, in places like the Shrine of Aessina. The mobs you will encounter will be level 19 to 21, like Ghostpaw Runner. The silver nodes don't appear to be rare there at all. From my experience, they're either up or someone has recently mined them.

If you're a fresh level 20 warrior or paladin with blacksmithing, you can roll on up to the Shrine of Aessina area, kill a couple spiders and wolves, mine a silver node or two, and have enough silver for the stuff you want to craft. Speaking from experience.

[Mac]

To provide some context why Blizzard added so many dogshit white items with 0 stats to professions:
Back in WoW Alpha, pretty much all items gave stats, even white ones from vendors etc. and the amount of stats per item was much lower (more similar to Warcraft 3).
So the Rough Bronze Boots for example would have had like +1 STR or something.
This was then changed to make white items completely stat-less, but without adapting professions, resulting in invalidating a lot of lower level gear by either removing all stats, or never increasing the stat-budget from WC3 design.

This is a very informative reply and a strong argument for boosting low level crafting.

[Nahath]

I would love to see this change. Part of it could come from having more useful gear, as described above, and part should come from more consumables. I love the engineering experience because I get all my skill-ups creating items that I gain benefit from (bombs, target dummies, harvest reapers, etc). While I don't expect other professions to take it that far, I like the idea of being able to do something cool because you're a blacksmith or leather worker, particularly at lower levels.

[Xudo]

Grand design of low level blacksmithing
Things to keep in mind
It should provide viable starting gear for battlegrounds of 2-9, 10-19 and 20-29.
Battleground-oriented gear should have stamina and some other random attribute like agility, strength, intellect.
Weapons should be as useful as possible and fill missing gaps in leveling path: daggers, 2h axes and 2h swords.
It should be leveled by useful stuff, which can be exchanged, not vendored. I implemented it as quests.
Crafting quests should reward more money than selling things to vendor.
It should provide unique benefit for crafter.
Changes should be as minimal as possible. Thats why reuse existing craft. Add crafts with random stats to reduce number of new recipes and make them useful by many specs.
It should be possible to level along the mining and character.
It should be viable alternative to engineering.
75 skill requires level 5.
150 skill requires level 10.
225 skill requires level 20.
Make use of low level gems.
It should teach things about crafting.
There should be an option to reforge item with random stats for minor price.
Reforging should be bad option to increase skill to prefent leveling by reforging.

Existing profession guides
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=413&p=2113#p2113
https://www.wowhead.com/classic/guide/b ... ow-classic

New Recipes
Gemmed Copper Bracers
mail, require 6 lvl
(1 stamina or 1 strength)
Reagents: 6 Copper, 1 Malachite
to learn - bs 20

Gemmed Copper Boots
mail, require 7 lvl
1 stamina and (1 agility or 1 strength or 1 intellect)
Reagents: 8 Copper, 2 Malachite
to learn - bs 30

Gemmed Copper Belt
mail, require 7 lvl
2 stamina or 2 strength or 2 intellect
Reagents: 6 copper, 2 Tigerseye
to learn - bs 45

Gemmed Copper Breastplate
mail, require 8 lvl
2 stamina and (1-2 agility or 1-2 strength or 1-2 intellect)
Reagents: 10 copper, 2 Tigerseye, 2 Malachite
to learn - bs 50

Gemmed Copper Circlet
Bind on Pickup
mail, require 9 lvl
3 stamina and (1-2 agility or 1-2 strength or 1-2 intellect)
Reagents: 2 Light leather, 2 Copper, 2 Shadowgem
Requires Blacksmithing (60)
to learn - bs 60

Gemmed Kopis
main hand dagger, requires level 9
7 DPS, speed 1.7
2 strength or 2 agility or 2 spell power
Reagents: 6 Copper, 1 Weak Flux, 1 Tigerseye, 1 Light Leather
to learn - bs 50

Gemmed Falshion
1h sword, required level 9
7 DPS, speed 2.2
2 strength or 2 agility or 2 stamina
Reagents: 6 Copper, 1 Weak Flux, 1 Tigerseye, 1 Light Leather
to learn - bs 50


Reforge Gemmed Copper Bracers
Reagents: 1 Weak Flux, Gemmed Copper Bracers
(produce other random bonuses)
to learn - bs 1

Reforge Gemmed Copper Boots
Reagents: 1 Weak Flux, Gemmed Copper Boots
to learn - bs 10

Reforge Gemmed Copper Belt
Reagents: 1 Weak Flux, Gemmed Copper Belt
to learn - bs 25

Reforge Gemmed Copper Gauntlets
Reagents: 1 Strange Dust, 1 Weak Flux, Gemmed Copper Gauntlets
to learn - bs 40

Reforge Gemmed Copper Breastplate
Reagents: 1 Strange Dust, 1 Weak Flux, Gemmed Copper Breastplate
to learn - bs 30

Reforge Gemmed Copper Circlet
Reagents: 1 Strange Dust, 1 Weak Flux, Gemmed Copper Circlet
to learn - bs 40

Reforge Gemmed Falshion
Reagents: 1 Strange Dust, 1 Weak Flux, Gemmed Falshion, 1 Light Leather
to learn - bs 40

Reforge Gemmed Kopis
Reagents: 1 Strage Dust, 1 Weak Flux, Gemmed Kopis, 1 Light Leather
to learn - bs 40

on existing Gemmed Copper Gloves
Change required level to 9

New quests
All should start from blacksmithing teachers in starting locations:
Dwukk https://database.turtle-wow.org/?npc=3174
Smith Argus https://database.turtle-wow.org/?npc=514
Tognus Flintfire https://database.turtle-wow.org/?npc=1241

Quest "Uncovering secrets of metal I"
Available after learning blacksmithing Apprentice.
Description
First thing you need to learn is to shape metal. Early crafts are crude and provide only basic protection. True artisans of smithing are able to imbue their creations with magic properties. No arcane tricks. Soon I'll show you how to uncover power of earth hidden in metal.
Show me that you are capable to shape metal and practice your skills. Bring me 10 Copper Bracers (learned from start, https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=2853)
Reward
Recipe to craft Gemmed Copper Bracers (should require bs 10)
2 silver coin (17 copper per bracer * 10 + some money)


Quest "Uncovering secrets of metal II"
Requires completion of "Uncovering secrets of metal I"
Description
Have you tried to craft my plan? Have you noticed that properties of item are not always the same. It takes time and practice to learn how to shape form to let power flow through it.
Bring
10 Bring Copper Chain Boots (require bs 20, https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=3469)
Reward
Recipe to craft Gemmed Copper Boots (should require bs 30)
5 silver coin (49 copper per boot * 10 + extra)


Quest "Uncovering secrets of metal III"
Requires completion of "Uncovering secrets of metal II"
Description
Try to shape different form. Try to feel power of earth flowing through metal.
Bring
10 Copper Chain Belts (require bs 35, https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=2851)
Reward
Recipe to craft Gemmed Copper Belt (should require bs 45)
6 silver coin (56 copper per belt * 10 + extra)


Quest "Uncovering secrets of metal IV"
Requires completion of "Uncovering secrets of metal III"
Description
You should not expect that I will teach you everything. You should travel across this world, trade and explore. Your next task is not only to shape metal. You should find plans to craft Copper Chain Vest. Ask people around, visit a marketplace. This is important lesson to learn.
Bring
5 Copper Chain Vest (require bs 35 https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=3471, recipe world drop https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=3609)
Reward
Recipe to craft Gemmed Copper Breastplate (should require bs 50)
8 silver coin(1s42c per vest * 5 + extra)

Quest "Uncovering secrets of metal V"
Requires completion of "Uncovering secrets of metal IV"
Description
Art of blacksmithing is not only about armor. You can craft weapons too. To make handy weapon handle, you will need Light leather. Ask people around or visit a marketplace.
Bring
2 Copper Dagger
2 Copper Shortsword
Reward:
Recipe to craft Gemmed Kopis
Recipe to craft Gemmed Falshion
5 silver coin (1s94c*2 + 1s10c*2 + extra)

Quest "Uncovering secrets of metal VI"
Requires completion of "Uncovering secrets of metal V"
Description
I taught you everything I know. You are very capabale apprentice. I was less talented than you, thats why I end up teaching others. Take this plan as a gift. Everyone will know you are skilful craftsman when they see this helm on you.
Reward:
Recipe to craft Gemmed Copper Circlet
Recipe: Reforged Gemmed Copper Circlet


Quest "Try it harder I"
Requires completion "Uncovering secrets of metal I" (first part)
Description
Sometimes you fail to make item exactly as you planned. One wrong hit of hammer and power flows wrong way or not strong enough. You can amend this mistake by reforging the item.
Bring
1 Gemmed Copper Bracers
1 Gemmed Copper Boots
1 Gemmed Copper Belt
3 Weak Flux

Reward
1 Gemmed Copper Bracers
1 Gemmed Copper Boots
1 Gemmed Copper Belt
Recipe: Reforged Gemmed Copper Bracers
Recipe: Reforged Gemmed Copper Boots
Recipe: Reforged Gemmed Copper Belt
3 silver coin (3 weak flux)


Quest "Try it harder II"
Requires completion "Try it harder I"
Description
If your craft is complex, then simple reforging wont help. You'll need to add some arcane magic. Let me show you. Bring me your crafts.
Bring
1 Gemmed Copper Breastplate
1 Gemmed Copper Gauntlets
2 Strange Dust
Reward
1 Gemmed Copper Breastplate
1 Gemmed Copper Gauntlets
Recipe: Reforged Gemmed Copper Breastplate
Recipe: Reforged Gemmed Copper Gauntlets
5 silver coin (just extra)


Quest "Try it harder III"
Requires completion "Try it harder II"
Description
Weapons can be reforged too. You'll have to mess up the handle you made previously. You also need that arcane substance to change how earth power flows trough the blade.
Bring
1 Gemmed Falshion
1 Gemmed Kopis
2 Light Leather
2 Weak Flux
2 Strange Dust
Reward
Recipe: Reforged Gemmed Falshion
Recipe: Reforged Gemmed Kopis
10 silver (2 flux + extra)


BS leveling path will look like this
Copper Bracers 2-11 (10)
Gemmed Copper Bracers 12
Rough Grinding Stone 13-19 (7)
Copper Chain Boots 20-30 (10)
Gemmed Copper Boots 31
Rough Grinding Stone 32-34 (3)
Copper Chain Belt 35-46 (10)
Gemmed Copper Belt 47
Copper Chain Vest 48-52 (5)
Gemmed Copper Breastplate 53
Copper Dagger 54-55
Copper Shortsword 56-57
Gemmed Kopis 58
Gemmed Falshion 59

Crafts either used by quests or used by character.

[Xudo]

I decided to check, does proposed items fit in power of this level?
How much stats can add other items of this level?
When proposed items will be replaced?

War Torn Pants https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=15485 (I didn't proposed to add pants, but anyway) required level 9 on AH I see variations "of the Bear +2 sta +1 str" and "of the Tiger +1 agi +2 str"
I see only pants, chest, shield, offhand with stats.
Legs and chest are +2+2 or +4
Offhands and shields +1+1 or +2

Daggers
Curved Dagger 7.2 DPS, 1.6 speed +2 stat
Sword 7.3 DPS, 2.4 speed +2 stat
Staff 8.9 DPS, +3+3 or +4 stat

When proposed items will be replaced?
boots
Brackwater Boots https://classicdb.ch/?item=3302 world drop lvl 10
+3 sta
Mud Stompers https://classicdb.ch/?item=6188 from quest lvl 10
+3 sta
Greaves of the People's Militia https://classicdb.ch/?item=5944 from quest lvl 10
+3 sta
Soldier's Boots https://classicdb.ch/?item=6551 world drop lvl 12
can be +2+2 or +3+3 or any other combination

belt
Raider's Belt https://classicdb.ch/?item=9788 world drop lvl 13
+2+2 or +8 AP
War Paint Waistband https://classicdb.ch/?item=14725 world drop lvl 12
+3str
Soldier's Girdle https://classicdb.ch/?item=6548 world drop lvl 11
+2+2 or +3+3 in any combination

wrist
Raider's Bracers https://classicdb.ch/?item=9785 world drop lvl 12
+6 AP
Soldier's Wristguards https://classicdb.ch/?item=6550 world drop lvl 10
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Soldie ... ristguards
+1+1 or +2
Bloodspattered Wristbands https://classicdb.ch/?item=15495 world drop lvl 10
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Bloods ... Wristbands
+1+1

Gloves
Veteran Gloves https://classicdb.ch/?item=2980 world drop lvl 10
+3 str
Bloodspattered Gloves https://classicdb.ch/?item=15491 world drop lvl 10
up to +2+2 stats

Chest
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Infantry_Tunic
up to +2+2 stats

Conclusion:
existing belts, gloves, waist, writs don't add stats before lvl 10.
After this level they add more stats, than proposed ones.
Proposed items are good, but don't introduce radical imbalance.
Gear with similar stats should be described for cloth and leather users.

[Fishi]

I also agree with the points made in this thread. Every profession should be a viable tool to finetune your characters stats, and almost 90% of everything i make is vendor / disenchant instead as either LW or BS.

[Xudo]

I suddenly found that rough bronze stuff get defense skill instead of spirit in database.
boots https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=6350
bracers https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=2867
cuirass https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=2866
leggings https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=2865
shoulders https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=3480

And shoulders give not only armor now, but also stamina

[Werefox]

Maybe it's not about recipes. It might be easier to make mobs drop less greens and more materials instead (including ores). As a kind of move towards player driven economy.

[Sanyachan93]

Never had sense many of the recipes, I hate it...

It would be cool being able to craft actually useful gear according to your level and not crafting white useless gear just for leveling the profession and throwing them at a vendor, it really feels like a big waste of material.

We really need a rework.

[Xudo]

Never had sense many of the recipes, I hate it...

It would be cool being able to craft actually useful gear according to your level and not crafting white useless gear just for leveling the profession and throwing them at a vendor, it really feels like a big waste of material.

We really need a rework.

A lot of recipes were reworked in server update of 5th of April 2023. viewtopic.php?t=6395
I'm curious, is it possible to level profession by crafting only useful stuff now.

Special thanks to Dragunovi. I suppose it is his work.