Everyone can be a TANK,Very urgent

[Dawoer]

TANK are hard to find,Everyone has to wait a long time in the queue!!!
proposal:
When using LFT,Everyone can activate the TANK function,
The person who activates the TANK will get attribute buff when entering the dungeon,armor bonus and threat ,
Disappear after leaving the dungeon!!.

This can solve the problem that TANK are always hard to find in a five person group!!
Everyone is looking for TANK, which has affected the fun of the game!
Not all warrior - paladin-Druid want to be tank,Don't embarrass them,
Warlock-T,mage-T,It's not uncommon,Everyone can be a TANK,We need a little change.!!!

[Apimius]

Especially warriors need to learn that they are supposed to be primarly a tank in 5-10 dungeon grps.
Any time you see a fury warrior ask for a 5man invite tell them to tank or they dont get invited.

Tanks are not rare because of some classes not having the capability to tank, rather its due to human nature, not wanting to take responsability. Tanking is and will always be an undesired role for many due to this.

[Shamma]

NO! Big no to this.

What Apimius said above applies fully.

Do not roll a warrior if you do not want to tank. Do not roll a paladin/priest if you do not want to heal. Pick the right class for how you want to play.

[Apimius]

NO! Big no to this.

What Apimius said above applies fully.

Do not roll a warrior if you do not want to tank. Do not roll a paladin/priest if you do not want to heal. Pick the right class for how you want to play.

This is true to the extend of 5man content. As for 40 man instances there is alot more wiggleroom to what role a specific class can fill due to more ppl in the grp. You can generaly easier compensate a few underperformers in a 40 man setting compared to a 5 man group. Its not all black and white.

[Shamma]

I would argue it is the opposite. 40 man is where min maxing lives. In 5 man you can get away with a 5 man full paladin party or, 5 man full druid party or a 5 man full shaman party and still do tank/dps/healer trinity. Cannot hope (and should not be able to) to clear a raid like that if not massively overgeared for it.

[Apimius]

I would argue it is the opposite. 40 man is where min maxing lives. In 5 man you can get away with a 5 man full paladin party or, 5 man full druid party or a 5 man full shaman party and still do tank/dps/healer trinity. Cannot hope (and should not be able to) to clear a raid like that if not massively overgeared for it.

Its not about min maxing to beat easy vanilla content. Ofc you cant beat raids with only "memers". A healthy amount of min max is required for raids. This threads topic is about 5 man content though and the rarety of tanks for 5 man dungeons. You will have more ppl being open to tanking with 40 ppl than in the search for a 5 ppl team. So ppl should not go for memes in 5mans but rather their main purpose role since less spots to fill. Do you see what im saying?

[Shamma]

Who brought the raid discussion in here? You did. Stop arguing raids again in a thread that had nothing to do with them!

I agreed with u on 5 man. Read up. Then u start arguing about 40man whisker wiggling. Go wiggle your 40 man raid whiskers in your thread!

[Apimius]

Who brought the raid discussion in here? You did. Stop arguing raids again in a thread that had nothing to do with them!

I agreed with u on 5 man. Read up. Then u start arguing about 40man whisker wiggling. Go wiggle your 40 man raid whiskers in your thread!

Great argument from you once again. kappa

[Shamma]

Ofc. I do make great arguments. Always on point. TY!

[Apimius]

Ofc. I do make great arguments. Always on point. TY!

That was sarcasm. But i guess you are not intelligent enough to recognize that.

[Shamma]

Wow. U are as daft as u seemed before. Just as I thought you were starting to grow up. Now you are going to highjack a thread.

[Gantulga]

We don't have a shortage of tanks as the queue is choke full of fury warriors and ret paladins. We have a shortage of people willing to tank.
Making the brainwashing device accessible for cheap at lower levels and then require the full unlock at 60 or something along those lines would help.
In the case of warriors, there's absolutely no excuse as 5 mans can be tanked as fury with a shield slapped on.

[Apimius]

We don't have a shortage of tanks as the queue is choke full of fury warriors and ret paladins. We have a shortage of people willing to tank.
Making the brainwashing device accessible for cheap at lower levels and then require the full unlock at 60 or something along those lines would help.
In the case of warriors, there's absolutely no excuse as 5 mans can be tanked as fury with a shield slapped on.

Exactly.

[Shamma]

Yes exactly. It is a mentality issue. You can be a fresh lvl 60 warrior wearing plate and a shield with no talents spent and tank the 5man dungeons, if you are willing to.

The shortage of ppl willing to tank and about to the same extend of ppl willing to heal is where the queue times come from.

On the subject - you do not want to wait, roll a warrior/druid/paladin and tank yourself!

[Dawoer]

Attention, we are talking about a team of five,five.five.five.five.five.
I can see it every day "LF1M need tank - ZF, LF1M need tank - RFD" from morning till night. Finally, the group disbanded,
I feel very sorry. I even feel sorry for them!why?why not?
It has hit people's enthusiasm again and again,They just want to go to dungeon once,Is this a luxury idea?
If you don't like this suggestion, you can continue to look for real "Tank"This is not mandatory
We can take this suggestion as a try, or periodically, and select one or two days in a week to see the response.
Of course, these should be decided by the operator, which is just a suggestion

[Breidr]

Hell, I'd love to try tanking/healing, but I don't for several reasons:

1. Cognitive Issues, which effect memory and other things. I struggle to juggle abilities.

2. Burden of Knowledge. I cannot go into a fight blind and have additional "homework" above that of a DPS. Repair bills as well.

3. Non-constructive Criticism. People never say anything when it goes right, but are quick to point out what goes wrong. Add to that the fact that they won't step up and tank just burns me.


Tanking is probably the least accessible role. The benefits don't really outweigh the rewards, which sucks because I love sword and board characters.

You want more tanks/healers? Start addressing the symptoms. I'm not saying it's the correct way of doing so, but there's a reason Modern MMO tanking has been streamlined and is easier. I've tanked in FFXIV and Healed in LOTRO and ESO. I wouldn't dare touch it here.

[Xudo]

I successfully tanked WC as a hunter once, RFD as frost mage once, almost all vanilla content as warrior zillion times.
Tanking is not only about special abilities. It is about keeping in mind threat model of pulled pack.
You should know who to hit to maintain threat on all mobs and save healer.
You should prioritize party members. Who you should save in first place. Who can survive on its own.

It is very possible to tank as shaman, but your party won't accept green shaman of lower level bound to tank the dungeon. They ask you to heal and keep searching for "tank".
In other words, we have too few tanks because people have some standards about who can be tank and who can't.

In the same time, DPS can just press single damaging button and be successful.

First possible solution is to simplify low level dungeons in terms of damage.
I want to admit, that Mutantus and Vancliff are really hard guys. They devastated my twink 19 tank very quickly. I think that AoE stun of Mutantus happens too often or reach too far.
RFC is also very tough dungeon for the level. People don't have gear at the moment and usually overcome the challenge.

Second possible solution is to increase amount of players in dungeon per tank.
Deficit of tanks during levelling can be treated by:
1. Mark all dungeon quests with "raid" mark, so they can be completed in party of 10.
2. Increase amount of players in dungeon from 5 to 10.
3. Increase amount of health of all mobs twice. Only health, not the damage. To balance increased DPS output from the party.
4. Increase amount of boss loot twice.
WIth the same amount of tanks, there will be much more other people who can join dungeon.

[Jongyi]

Hell, I'd love to try tanking/healing, but I don't for several reasons:

1. Cognitive Issues, which effect memory and other things. I struggle to juggle abilities.

2. Burden of Knowledge. I cannot go into a fight blind and have additional "homework" above that of a DPS. Repair bills as well.

3. Non-constructive Criticism. People never say anything when it goes right, but are quick to point out what goes wrong. Add to that the fact that they won't step up and tank just burns me.


Tanking is probably the least accessible role. The benefits don't really outweigh the rewards, which sucks because I love sword and board characters.

You want more tanks/healers? Start addressing the symptoms. I'm not saying it's the correct way of doing so, but there's a reason Modern MMO tanking has been streamlined and is easier. I've tanked in FFXIV and Healed in LOTRO and ESO. I wouldn't dare touch it here.

How was tanking different from FFXIV to not make tank that stressful compared to wow, vanilla wow or turtle wow in that matter?
Maybe we could learn something from them and apply here for the better.

[Markuis]

Post like this always end up the same. Some people say "X class should be tanking regardless of talents" or "it's a mentality thing". Yet the problem remains and the players don't change their mentality and the X class player doesn't start tanking regularly. So while those points may be true there is no solution for them. Most people don't read this forum nor they will they change their playstyle.

I disagree on the proposed solution of buffing whoever goes tank tho. Adding more tank viable options by themselves is the way to go.

[Breidr]

Hell, I'd love to try tanking/healing, but I don't for several reasons:

1. Cognitive Issues, which effect memory and other things. I struggle to juggle abilities.

2. Burden of Knowledge. I cannot go into a fight blind and have additional "homework" above that of a DPS. Repair bills as well.

3. Non-constructive Criticism. People never say anything when it goes right, but are quick to point out what goes wrong. Add to that the fact that they won't step up and tank just burns me.


Tanking is probably the least accessible role. The benefits don't really outweigh the rewards, which sucks because I love sword and board characters.

You want more tanks/healers? Start addressing the symptoms. I'm not saying it's the correct way of doing so, but there's a reason Modern MMO tanking has been streamlined and is easier. I've tanked in FFXIV and Healed in LOTRO and ESO. I wouldn't dare touch it here.

How was tanking different from FFXIV to not make tank that stressful compared to wow, vanilla wow or turtle wow in that matter?
Maybe we could learn something from them and apply here for the better.

Threat management is non-existent. My tanking "rotation" consisted only of a few buttons. It was basically 1-2-31-2-4 and an AoE for gathering packs.

Tanking in FFXIV is more about managing cooldowns and less about threat. Or in my warriors case, hitting optimal fel cleave windows.

Turtle WoW has aggressive threat, and things don't stick as easily. In a pug situation, FF was just more fun. Pug DPS is going to push all it's buttons, people don't remember how things used to be (Three Sunder Rule).

Now there's going to be pushback if they change things, because then it's not "vanilla." If you want easy, go play retail.

I honestly don't know what the answer is. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Human nature in regards to certain roles always leads to this.

No MMO has "solved" this. They've just made things like tanking less intensive. I actually loved it. Simple rotation, a buff to keep up, and I built rage so I could use my big attack. Use cooldowns to steal life back and win the game. Not for everyone, but I enjoyed it.

[Mac]

If you feel like there's a tank shortage and you can't find tanks for your groups, roll a tank. Problem solved.

[Xudo]

If you feel like there's a tank shortage and you can't find tanks for your groups, roll a tank. Problem solved.

Actually, it is not.
I leveled warrior to 60 multiple times. Now I want to level mage and do dungeons on low level. How having main 60 tank solves problem of overall tank deficit?

[Mac]

I leveled warrior to 60 multiple times.

Did you have problems finding a tank for dungeons those multiple times when you were playing a tank class?

[Shamma]

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4342&hilit=level+down

This solves it somewhat. The lvl 60 ready tanks, can just go back and tank again.

But not entirely, since the problem is also present at 60. There is also a shortage of tanks at 60.

What will solve it is to make everybody willing to tank, as you can play your mage and one of the dozens of warriors, who do not want to takes over the task.

How to make them willing to tank - I do not know. I usually play characters that are able to tank, just because I know I will not wait for grp that way.

[Xudo]

I leveled warrior to 60 multiple times.

Did you have problems finding a tank for dungeons those multiple times when you were playing a tank class?

I didn't. Mostly because I level in prot spec (11/0/x) inside dungeons and just skip all quests in the world.

But seriously. I can't level mage in dungeons because they are DPS and demand for DPS is very low in dungeons.
I also can't level mage because all other tanks do it worse than me and it is sad and slow.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4342&hilit=level+down

This solves it somewhat. The lvl 60 ready tanks, can just go back and tank again.

But not entirely, since the problem is also present at 60. There is also a shortage of tanks at 60.

What will solve it is to make everybody willing to tank, as you can play your mage and one of the dozens of warriors, who do not want to takes over the task.

How to make them willing to tank - I do not know. I usually play characters that are able to tank, just because I know I will not wait for grp that way.

Why tank should level down if he can just go as lvl 60 with all his gear? Tanks are usually carry a lot of different gear: FR, NR, pieces from previous tiers and so on. Do you propose to stock low level gear too?

Regarding the original topic. Spells like Misdirection could really help. If all spell DPS could get misdirection alternative at low level, then requirements to skills of your tank will be lowered. DPS could help him tank.

[Toaomb]

I personally really like the direction that tanking in Turtle WoW is going. More diversity, more choices, more fun. Not just picking warrior because plate, but actually picking something fun. Turtle WoW is a much more loose game than vanilla, it's the players that suck the fun out by trying to tell You what to do with Your fun. Shaman tank all day, rogue dodge tank all night, melee hunter beast mastery tank inbetween! NO META BABY ALL FUN AND GAMES

[Gantulga]

Removal of threat by making it irrelevant was awful for tanking. Later they tried to "patch" it by turning tanking into a mind-numbing minigame of pressing defensive cooldowns on timers and taunt-swapping every other boss.

[Bellybutton]

Pick the right class for how you want to play.

What if Shadow Priest, Retribution Paladin, Cat druid, or Fury Warrior ARE how I want to play, and these are the spec combinations for how I want to play?
Don't let the "Heh, sorry bucko, but it seems you're the wrong spec. What's that? You wanted to be a DPS? Better level a DPS class to 60, pal" mentality dictate how you want to play the game.
If I want to play a DPS warrior, druid, paladin or priest, there are literally DPS specs built into the game.

[Xudo]

Pick the right class for how you want to play.

What if Shadow Priest, Retribution Paladin, Cat druid, or Fury Warrior ARE how I want to play, and these are the spec combinations for how I want to play?
Don't let the "Heh, sorry bucko, but it seems you're the wrong spec. What's that? You wanted to be a DPS? Better level a DPS class to 60, pal" mentality dictate how you want to play the game.
If I want to play a DPS warrior, druid, paladin or priest, there are literally DPS specs built into the game.

Why exactly you can't fullfill tank role as retribution paladin or fury warrior?
Class and spec combination is not the same as role in 5man dungeon.
I do understand that mages and warlocks have problem with tanking. But mail and plate wearers are resilent enough to undure some damage.

[Bellybutton]

Pick the right class for how you want to play.

What if Shadow Priest, Retribution Paladin, Cat druid, or Fury Warrior ARE how I want to play, and these are the spec combinations for how I want to play?
Don't let the "Heh, sorry bucko, but it seems you're the wrong spec. What's that? You wanted to be a DPS? Better level a DPS class to 60, pal" mentality dictate how you want to play the game.
If I want to play a DPS warrior, druid, paladin or priest, there are literally DPS specs built into the game.

Why exactly you can't fullfill tank role as retribution paladin or fury warrior?
Class and spec combination is not the same as role in 5man dungeon.
I do understand that mages and warlocks have problem with tanking. But mail and plate wearers are resilent enough to undure some damage.

What if somebody doesn't want to play the tank role?

[Xudo]

What if Shadow Priest, Retribution Paladin, Cat druid, or Fury Warrior ARE how I want to play, and these are the spec combinations for how I want to play?
Don't let the "Heh, sorry bucko, but it seems you're the wrong spec. What's that? You wanted to be a DPS? Better level a DPS class to 60, pal" mentality dictate how you want to play the game.
If I want to play a DPS warrior, druid, paladin or priest, there are literally DPS specs built into the game.

Why exactly you can't fullfill tank role as retribution paladin or fury warrior?
Class and spec combination is not the same as role in 5man dungeon.
I do understand that mages and warlocks have problem with tanking. But mail and plate wearers are resilent enough to undure some damage.

What if somebody doesn't want to play the tank role?

Then you should say "I don't want to be tank" instead of "I am retribution paladin/ fury warrior". Thats perfectly ok, but why should I level tank to help you clearing dungeons?

[Shamma]

You do not want to play a tank - you do not tank. No problem. But if your character is capable of tanking and you do not want to tank, you do not get the dps spot over a mage in my grp if I am tanking!

When I tank, I pick my grp and I say - no ty, to warriors and retris.

You can have that priv. too, my fellow warrior/paladin - just decide to tank!

[Totuga]

38

[Zeyla]

I'm not sure I support the idea of everyone being capable of tanking in every capacity (as in, not a capable raid tank) but the idea of more classes being able to fill the role of a 5 man dungeon tank is certainly appealing in order to help more groups form in the community.

In fact, my idea around this is something that I already posted in the new item suggestion thread just a bit ago, because it takes the form of an item set that enables that sort of playstyle for certain classes. I'll toss the images here as well just for a quick example.


Maybe make a blue lvl 40 version called Bronzeweave that's 6pc with gloves and boots, with the 6/6 bonus reducing your chance to be crit by 5%. Also an overhaul of the Ironweave set that already exists would be very welcome.

(The wand procs a pet growl, not a real taunt)

I think adding fun little items in various quests and professions that can help achieve such things is a good way to address the issue without fundamentally changing the way the classes currently work and are "balanced" by the twow dev that determines such balance changes. But that's just my opinion :P

[Breidr]

If you feel like there's a tank shortage and you can't find tanks for your groups, roll a tank. Problem solved.

Make it less stressful and more accessible and people will do that. *points to threat model*