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6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:28 pm
by Kanto123
I believe this would be a solution for the 6 class limit per race we currently encounter: simply make a copy race that has the 7th, 8th, etc classes. In everyway the copy race would be identical to the original, this would purely be something encountered on the character creation screen.
While it might make the character creation screen a bit messier, since it's only something you view for a few minutes and the change would have a significant benefit to the game by allowing things like Human Hunters and Troll Warlocks I believe it would be worth it.
The only potential issue I see with this is if there is a maximum limit to the number of races that can be displayed on the character creation screen. If there isn't any technical limitation like that, what are the chances that something like this would be implemented? I know human hunters have been desired for some time and would make people happy
Below is an example with a copy of the human and troll races
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:59 pm
by Aszura
if we are going to add another race slot... wouldn't it be better to add a new race instead of a copy?
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:05 pm
by Kanto123
Aszura wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:59 pm
if we are going to add another race slot... wouldn't it be better to add a new race instead of a copy?
Adding an entirely new race is an arduous endeavor from what I hear the developers say, and the 6 class restriction per race has always been an issue. I think making a duplicate race to add more classes would be far easier than adding something like Ogres to the Horde
Besides, these wouldn't need to be mutually exclusive anyway, adding entirely new races could still be done in the future
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:59 am
by Irbis
Why do we need new race-class combinations?
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:10 am
by Bellybutton
Irbis wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:59 am
Why do we need new race-class combinations?
Adding new lore-accurate race-class combinations is something that Turtle's always wanted to do and actively talks about on the Discord every now and then, but because Vanilla is coded awkwardly there's a 6 class restriction on all races.
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 1:01 pm
by Jombo
I am an advocate for the addition of Kul Tiras as a new human "race" with the possibility of being hunters. For the exact implementation, well... I am not sure.
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:10 pm
by Kanto123
Would the Kul Tiras have the same appearance as the regular humans, but with different racials?
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:58 pm
by Aszura
After thinking about it, this is actually a good idea, but in my opinion, the only race they could add would be Gilnean Human
They could have Hunter and Druids (even Shaman)
It's a copy of a human yes, but they would have Worgen transformation as racial, and no need to backport cata worgen also
And to make it more unique, they could have less skin tones and hair colors, leaving just the darker colors
And bonus, the devs would have a reason to make Gilneas zone
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:15 pm
by Mativh
You can have more combinations another way: Make the race of choice matter for a class as much as the spec of choice, so the classes aren't standardized and the lore of the race would actually matter, to the point where you aren't just a shadow priest or elemental shaman, but for example (Shadow Ascendant) Forsaken Priests, (Witch Doctor) Troll Shamans, (Shadow-Hunter) Troll Priests, (Spirit Walker) Tauren Shamans, (Priestess of the Moon) Night Elven Priest, (Spell Breaker) High Elf Warrior, (Dark Ranger) Forsaken Hunter etc.
Priests and now Shamans have some racials, this can go much deeper, honoring the Warcraft 3/early wow lore. It'll feel like there are many more classes, playstyle and roleplaying possibilities.
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:29 pm
by Kanto123
Mativh wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:15 pm
You can have more combinations another way: Make the race of choice matter for a class as much as the spec of choice, so the classes aren't standardized and the lore of the race would actually matter, to the point where you aren't just a shadow priest or elemental shaman, but for example (Shadow Ascendant) Forsaken Priests, (Witch Doctor) Troll Shamans, (Shadow-Hunter) Troll Priests, (Spirit Walker) Tauren Shamans, (Priestess of the Moon) Night Elven Priest, (Spell Breaker) High Elf Warrior, (Dark Ranger) Forsaken Hunter etc.
Priests and now Shamans have some racials, this can go much deeper, honoring the Warcraft 3/early wow lore. It'll feel like there are many more classes, playstyle and roleplaying possibilities.
I agree with creating a greater distinction between the races by giving them more racials for classes. Troll Shamans can be given some shadow spells to align more with a witchdoctor theme, orc shamans can be given some more fire/water/earth/air spells to align more with the elemental themes, and tauren shamans could be given some bonuses for ressurection to align with the spiritwalker theme.
However despite these changes being appealing from a lore perspective, the more these mechanics are changed, the more the turtle team has to playtest and tweak them to ensure balance is maintained which is a difficult undertaking given the small amount of members they have working on the project
The current changes they've announced seem to be a step in the right direction
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:43 am
by Gheor
Aszura wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:58 pm
After thinking about it, this is actually a good idea, but in my opinion, the only race they could add would be Gilnean Human
They could have Hunter and Druids (even Shaman)
It's a copy of a human yes, but they would have Worgen transformation as racial, and no need to backport cata worgen also
And to make it more unique, they could have less skin tones and hair colors, leaving just the darker colors
And bonus, the devs would have a reason to make Gilneas zone
What are you basing these combos for Gilneans on?
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:34 pm
by Kanto123
Can Italian Mafia Don be added as a class for humans?
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 12:13 am
by Rudyraccoon
Playable Vanilla Worgen, now that'll be interesting.
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:09 am
by Gheor
No.
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:20 am
by Kanto123
Gheor wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:09 am
No.
No to the playable Worgen or no to the Italian Mafia Don?
*gabagool intensifies*
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 12:04 pm
by Mac
Rudyraccoon wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 12:13 am
Playable Vanilla Worgen, now that'll be interesting.
You can get a worgen illusion in the Turtle store and it's actually really fun to play with.
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 6:55 pm
by Kanto123
Mac wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 12:04 pm
Rudyraccoon wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 12:13 am
Playable Vanilla Worgen, now that'll be interesting.
You can get a worgen illusion in the Turtle store and it's actually really fun to play with.
Is that like an instant cast spell?
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:13 am
by Mac
Kanto123 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 6:55 pm
Mac wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 12:04 pm
Rudyraccoon wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 12:13 am
Playable Vanilla Worgen, now that'll be interesting.
You can get a worgen illusion in the Turtle store and it's actually really fun to play with.
Is that like an instant cast spell?
Yes and it lasts until you either cancel it or log out.
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2022 5:57 pm
by Allwynd01
Kanto123 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:20 am
Gheor wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:09 am
No.
No to the playable Worgen or no to the Italian Mafia Don?
*gabagool intensifies*
I'm not versed on Gilneas' history and what happened there.
I tend to consider (and maybe I'm wrong for it) that everything the developers did for WoW after TBC is retconning. Sure, some story is real, but I think a lot of decisions are based on them just wanting to put stuff in the game, kinda like Forsaken Priest in Vanilla - this should have not been like this or all of their spells should have been Shadow versions of actual Priest Spells and they should not be Healers and pure DPS instead, but there were probably technical limitations as to why this never happened.
So for Gilneas, I'm not sure when were the people there cursed to be werewolves and have they remained loyal to the Alliance or the rest of humanity or not so it's something tough to decide.
Other than that, I think most of the ideas about races and classes after Vanilla re bad ideas/examples for things that can be implemented backwards into Turtle WoW. Instead, I think brand new ideas or unused concepts should be the forefront of discussions.
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2022 8:46 pm
by Kanto123
Allwynd01 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 23, 2022 5:57 pm
Kanto123 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:20 am
Gheor wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:09 am
No.
No to the playable Worgen or no to the Italian Mafia Don?
*gabagool intensifies*
I'm not versed on Gilneas' history and what happened there.
I tend to consider (and maybe I'm wrong for it) that everything the developers did for WoW after TBC is retconning. Sure, some story is real, but I think a lot of decisions are based on them just wanting to put stuff in the game, kinda like Forsaken Priest in Vanilla - this should have not been like this or all of their spells should have been Shadow versions of actual Priest Spells and they should not be Healers and pure DPS instead, but there were probably technical limitations as to why this never happened.
So for Gilneas, I'm not sure when were the people there cursed to be werewolves and have they remained loyal to the Alliance or the rest of humanity or not so it's something tough to decide.
Other than that, I think most of the ideas about races and classes after Vanilla re bad ideas/examples for things that can be implemented backwards into Turtle WoW. Instead, I think brand new ideas or unused concepts should be the forefront of discussions.
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:07 pm
by Bayanni
Allwynd01 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 23, 2022 5:57 pm
Kanto123 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:20 am
Gheor wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:09 am
No.
No to the playable Worgen or no to the Italian Mafia Don?
*gabagool intensifies*
I'm not versed on Gilneas' history and what happened there.
I tend to consider (and maybe I'm wrong for it) that everything the developers did for WoW after TBC is retconning. Sure, some story is real, but I think a lot of decisions are based on them just wanting to put stuff in the game, kinda like Forsaken Priest in Vanilla - this should have not been like this or all of their spells should have been Shadow versions of actual Priest Spells and they should not be Healers and pure DPS instead, but there were probably technical limitations as to why this never happened.
So for Gilneas, I'm not sure when were the people there cursed to be werewolves and have they remained loyal to the Alliance or the rest of humanity or not so it's something tough to decide.
Other than that, I think most of the ideas about races and classes after Vanilla re bad ideas/examples for things that can be implemented backwards into Turtle WoW. Instead, I think brand new ideas or unused concepts should be the forefront of discussions.
Most of Gilneas lore you'll find is from Cata and post-cata content, so essentially retcons. We do know they are involved with worgen in vanilla due to the proximity of SFK to the gate, but then again worgen also appear in ashenvale and duskwood, so directly linking the two might be a bit of a stretch even if the lore says Gilneas caused the worgen curse. Of course, the cata content links the worgen curse with "Elune's Scythe", so the fact that the only other places worgen appear is in zones with emerald dream portals might have something to do with it.
We know the name of the leader didn't change, that the city sealed itself from the outside world entirely during WC3 until cata (save an expedition that went with Janna to Kalimdor), and that they didn't do much of anything and were minor players in the politics and wars of the era. It's hard to say if their link to not-werewolves was thought of before cata from what I know, but if it was I would prefer just another human faction with no playable worgen. We already have enough furries with the tauren.
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:07 am
by Gheor
Bayanni wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:07 pm
Allwynd01 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 23, 2022 5:57 pm
Kanto123 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:20 am
No to the playable Worgen or no to the Italian Mafia Don?
*gabagool intensifies*
I'm not versed on Gilneas' history and what happened there.
I tend to consider (and maybe I'm wrong for it) that everything the developers did for WoW after TBC is retconning. Sure, some story is real, but I think a lot of decisions are based on them just wanting to put stuff in the game, kinda like Forsaken Priest in Vanilla - this should have not been like this or all of their spells should have been Shadow versions of actual Priest Spells and they should not be Healers and pure DPS instead, but there were probably technical limitations as to why this never happened.
So for Gilneas, I'm not sure when were the people there cursed to be werewolves and have they remained loyal to the Alliance or the rest of humanity or not so it's something tough to decide.
Other than that, I think most of the ideas about races and classes after Vanilla re bad ideas/examples for things that can be implemented backwards into Turtle WoW. Instead, I think brand new ideas or unused concepts should be the forefront of discussions.
Most of Gilneas lore you'll find is from Cata and post-cata content, so essentially retcons. We do know they are involved with worgen in vanilla due to the proximity of SFK to the gate, but then again worgen also appear in ashenvale and duskwood, so directly linking the two might be a bit of a stretch even if the lore says Gilneas caused the worgen curse. Of course, the cata content links the worgen curse with "Elune's Scythe", so the fact that the only other places worgen appear is in zones with emerald dream portals might have something to do with it.
We know the name of the leader didn't change, that the city sealed itself from the outside world entirely during WC3 until cata (save an expedition that went with Janna to Kalimdor), and that they didn't do much of anything and were minor players in the politics and wars of the era. It's hard to say if their link to not-werewolves was thought of before cata from what I know, but if it was I would prefer just another human faction with no playable worgen. We already have enough furries with the tauren.
Agreed.
May the Wolf-Serpent slither through your walls.
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:33 pm
by Avaendis
Bayanni wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:07 pm
We do know they are involved with worgen in vanilla due to the proximity of SFK to the gate, but then again worgen also appear in ashenvale and duskwood, so directly linking the two might be a bit of a stretch even if the lore says Gilneas caused the worgen curse. Of course, the cata content links the worgen curse with "Elune's Scythe", so the fact that the only other places worgen appear is in zones with emerald dream portals might have something to do with it.
[...] It's hard to say if their link to not-werewolves was thought of before cata from what I know, but if it was I would prefer just another human faction with no playable worgen. We already have enough furries with the tauren.
To add precision to all that, the Worgens of Ashenvale and Duskwood are "related"' in that they were both brought to Azeroth by the Scythe of Elune, and you can learn all about that in the quest that deals with all that (This long chain starts with "The Howling Vale"). The Scythe is kind of a dropped thread of Vanilla WoW, with its whereabout completely unknown, though that evil mage in Redridge Mountain is also
rumoured to have had it at some point, but no tangible evidence.
The worgens in Shadowfang Keep and around it are "unrelated" in that while they are indeed the same species, they were not brought into this world by the Scythe, and Arugal found another way to summon them (We know this because the first bearer of the Scythe of Elune talks about Arugal summoning worgens before losing the Scythe).
So, all in all, we do know a fair share about the Worgen in Vanilla, though what we do know includes that they are not werewolves and come from an entirely different world.
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:39 am
by Galendor
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:00 pm
by Gheor
"This article or section includes speculation, observations or opinions possibly supported by lore or by Blizzard officials. It should not be taken as representing official lore."
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:23 pm
by Kanto123
Gheor wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:00 pm
"This article or section includes speculation, observations or opinions possibly supported by lore or by Blizzard officials. It should not be taken as representing official lore."
That might just be referring to that section at the bottom and not the entire page. On this other link referencing the same topic, the speculation section is larger and references the green dragonflght:
https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki ... rald_Flame
This second link is the older version, and so contains less confirmed information.
When I followed the second link in the references section of the wowpedia version Galendor posted it brings up a comic from 2010 that must have confirmed the emerald flame as satyrs. Seeing as to how that piece of information is post-vanilla lore, it probably isn't compatible with this server, but the notion of the war with the emerald flame should be usable because reference 1 shows Velinde's journal which is a vanilla wow item
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Sun May 01, 2022 5:27 pm
by Bayanni
Kanto123 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:23 pm
Gheor wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:00 pm
"This article or section includes speculation, observations or opinions possibly supported by lore or by Blizzard officials. It should not be taken as representing official lore."
That might just be referring to that section at the bottom and not the entire page. On this other link referencing the same topic, the speculation section is larger and references the green dragonflght:
https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki ... rald_Flame
This second link is the older version, and so contains less confirmed information.
When I followed the second link in the references section of the wowpedia version Galendor posted it brings up a comic from 2010 that must have confirmed the emerald flame as satyrs. Seeing as to how that piece of information is post-vanilla lore, it probably isn't compatible with this server, but the notion of the war with the emerald flame should be usable because reference 1 shows Velinde's journal which is a vanilla wow item
That is a neat thought if there were future quests centered around the green dragonflight and their relation to both the emerald dream and the worgen. Could give a good plotline to lead into a future emerald dream raid.
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Sun May 01, 2022 7:22 pm
by Avaendis
It is very unlikely that the Lords of the Emerald Flame are in any way related to the Emerald Dream, or Velinde, when she did extensive research about the Worgens, would have found something about them no doubt.
It would also have sounded rather alarming for a priestess of the moon (and the ancients she consulted) that her new servants fought the dragons, especially those most associated with Elune.
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 8:11 am
by Bellbotems
What is the realistic chance of this happening, I don't see a reason why every race does not have the six class choices, some combinations would not make sense like Tauren Warlock and Rogue, but if that tickles your fancy go for it.
Re: 6+ Classes for a Race
Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 4:39 pm
by Kanto123
Bellbotems wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 8:11 am
What is the realistic chance of this happening, I don't see a reason why every race does not have the six class choices, some combinations would not make sense like Tauren Warlock and Rogue, but if that tickles your fancy go for it.
More than 6 classes per race are going to be possible in patch 1.17.0; Trolls will get warlocks and humans will get hunters