World PvP on Turtle WoW: An Unfulfilled Promise

[Larrycowson]

Hello fellow adventurers,

I wanted to bring up a discussion on the current state of World PvP on Turtle WoW, particularly focusing on the issues arising from how Warmode is implemented. As many of you might agree, the spirit of World PvP has always been about spontaneous encounters, territory control, and resource competition, which contribute to a deeply immersive and engaging gameplay experience. However, it feels like the current mechanics are undermining this spirit, especially for new or leveling players.

Upon activating Warmode at level one, players receive a flat 20% XP and honor boost. On paper, this sounds fantastic as it incentivizes players to opt into a more risky and potentially rewarding playstyle. However, the reality is far from ideal. This system, while beneficial for XP gain, inadvertently opens up low-level players to being easy targets for high-level characters. This isn't just challenging; it's outright discouraging. Instead of fostering a vibrant World PvP environment, it turns into a griefing playground where high-level players can easily prey on the low-level ones. This is particularly frustrating for new players who are just trying to enjoy the game and level up.

The promise of Warmode was to revitalize World PvP—making it about meaningful skirmishes and strategic zone control, not about being relentlessly hunted down by players who have no other intention than to disrupt your gameplay. We are missing out on those thrilling moments of spotting another player close in level, deciding whether to engage or not, and battling over local resources. These are the experiences that truly define World PvP.

Furthermore, this situation creates an unspoken meta where Warmode is turned on primarily for the leveling perks rather than the PvP itself. Once players have had enough of being targets, they are pressured to turn Warmode off, which effectively "kills" World PvP by reducing player participation. A lot of players even will encourage turning it off ingame!



Here's what I propose:

Level Bracketing for Warmode: Implement level brackets within Warmode to ensure that players are only pitted against others within a certain level range. This could prevent high-level players from targeting those significantly below them. My suggestion is +3/-3 but +5/-5 is a valid argument as well. This is probably the easiest fix but also scales with level as you go and is a lot less programming intensive to do.

Alternatively,
Zone-Based Restrictions: Perhaps limiting the areas where higher-level players can engage lower-level players in PvP could help. Making certain zones PvP-safe for lower levels could allow them more space to grow. I.e. in hillsbrad, warmode players may only attack eachother if they are within level 21-30, similar to how battlegrounds work, this method takes a little more time and is limited per zone, however this will blatantly exclude high level griefers while still allowing for a level advantage and creating specific zones players of a level will seek out for a specific level of pvp.

Incentives for Fair Play: Offer greater rewards for engaging in PvP against players of similar levels or in more structured PvP encounters, such as perhaps specific items awarded for pvp kills per bracket/level that you can turn in for additional honor, xp, or armor as you level, rather than having any kind of XP or honor increase at all, why not attach it to the actual player kills themselves? It should never have been just a passive boost to anything but rather something you earn either per kill, per rank, or some other thresh-hold thats been met and only by engaging in pvp in the first place may someone actually use the system at all. This reward structure attached to one of the above 2 limitations would create a fun and exciting pvp experience for the players who sorely have been seeking it so badly, they leveled on a completely other realm and still dont feel content because their desires havent been met.

We all understand that PvP is a core aspect of the WoW experience, but it should promote fair competition and enjoyment for all players involved. I believe these changes could help restore the thrill and fairness of World PvP on Turtle WoW, making it a truly integral and enjoyable part of the game.

What are your thoughts? Do you think such changes could improve the World PvP scenario, or do you have other ideas?

Looking forward to a healthy discussion.

Best regards,
Larry the Cow

[Zvyrhol]

Your suggestion about Level Bracketing in Warmode seems to be too complicated in my opinion. Devs have already announced the dishonorable kills will have revamp (currently they are disabled). The idea is if you kill gray enemy in PvP you get heavy Honor penalty. I think this would discourage people from killing low levels. Of course the problem is this allows players to grief each other, someone might kill low level by AOE spell by accident.

I like current passive boost of Honor. It was added because once players got level 60, they abandoned the challenge - why to have PvP active all the time if it doesn't give anything in the late game? Passive Honor boost is now crucial if you are interested in leveling your PvP rank.

Also, my opinion is that PvP is great not because there are gear rewards for doing PvP. PvP is spontanous and fun. I was playing AV a lot and I observed how demoralized half of my team is only because they play just to hit Exalted, buy gear and never come back there again. Playing with such team isn't as enjoyable as playing with players who really like PvP. I'm OK with rewards as long as they don't force players to grind them for tens of hours only because they are so desired in raiding. Mounts, pets, bags are example how good rewards look like. They aren't BiS in any way but they are very cool to own.

[Larrycowson]

Dear Zvyrhol,

Dishonorable kills aren't gonna prevent someone who isnt interested in getting honor kills.

You need either the bracketed system or zone system, neither of which is more complex then "Are you the right level? good"

"I like current passive boost of Honor. It was added because once players got level 60, they abandoned the challenge - why to have PvP active all the time if it doesn't give anything in the late game? Passive Honor boost is now crucial if you are interested in leveling your PvP rank."

Which is why I think it shouldnt be passive, it should be something you get on kill. Whether thats at level 57-60, 55-60, or only 60, still makes sense in terms of pvp progression. Nothing I said conflicts with max level world pvp nor would the changes I suggest impact battlegrounds. a 20% xp buff defeats the purpose of having a warmode in the first place if nobody is doing it by pvping.

Your example about pvp being spontaneous and fun is in direct opposition of the fact you used a BG as an example: which isnt spontaneous, its objective oriented so you already know when and where its going to happen. Theres literally nothing spontaneous about going into a queue, and then walking up into an active PVP objective to kill people. that is like saying Blackfathom Deeps is spontaeous after you queued up for it, walked over there, entered the dungeon, and killed the creatures inside.

Regards,
Larry the Cow

[Ibux]

"I like current passive boost of Honor. It was added because once players got level 60, they abandoned the challenge - why to have PvP active all the time if it doesn't give anything in the late game? Passive Honor boost is now crucial if you are interested in leveling your PvP rank."

Which is why I think it shouldnt be passive, it should be something you get on kill. Whether thats at level 57-60, 55-60, or only 60, still makes sense in terms of pvp progression. Nothing I said conflicts with max level world pvp nor would the changes I suggest impact battlegrounds. a 20% xp buff defeats the purpose of having a warmode in the first place if nobody is doing it by pvping.

I suspect that if the honor bonus becomes too large, it could possibly prevent players who do not participate in warmode but who are only interested in bg's from ranking up. in the worst case they could stop joining bg's.

[Larrycowson]

"I like current passive boost of Honor. It was added because once players got level 60, they abandoned the challenge - why to have PvP active all the time if it doesn't give anything in the late game? Passive Honor boost is now crucial if you are interested in leveling your PvP rank."

Which is why I think it shouldnt be passive, it should be something you get on kill. Whether thats at level 57-60, 55-60, or only 60, still makes sense in terms of pvp progression. Nothing I said conflicts with max level world pvp nor would the changes I suggest impact battlegrounds. a 20% xp buff defeats the purpose of having a warmode in the first place if nobody is doing it by pvping.

I suspect that if the honor bonus becomes too large, it could possibly prevent players who do not participate in warmode but who are only interested in bg's from ranking up. in the worst case they could stop joining bg's.

Dear Ibux,
I'm sure theres an easy balance to find, but in world of warcraft, you should actively be seeking out players in the world to kill or fight outside of a controlled environment like BGs, the best pvp that has ever happened in the game are random spontaneous encounters in places like Hillsbrad and we should absolutely be incentivizing that even over a BG system. That said theres no reason both cant exist, as you never see bg's popping 20-59 anyway.

Regards,
Larry the Cow

[Xudo]

If killing people in the world would become too good, then people start camping flight paths.
Turtle devs announced some towers in various locations. From all perspectives, they are good idea. I think it is best to just wait for them to release and try them.

Warmode is to encourage world pvp, but for those who don't pick it. If you don't like it, go pvp server.

[Zvyrhol]

Dishonorable kills aren't gonna prevent someone who isnt interested in getting honor kills.

That's actually true. Though the majority of players would stop killing low levels - that's only my guess. Griefers do exist and this change won't stop them. If so, your suggestion is reasonable.

Your example about pvp being spontaneous and fun is in direct opposition of the fact you used a BG as an example: which isnt spontaneous, its objective oriented so you already know when and where its going to happen. Theres literally nothing spontaneous about going into a queue, and then walking up into an active PVP objective to kill people. that is like saying Blackfathom Deeps is spontaeous after you queued up for it, walked over there, entered the dungeon, and killed the creatures inside.

Spontanous moments also happen in the battlegrounds. You might be right that they don't happen in every BG - you have clear objectives in AB and WSG. I'm mainly AV player though. Believe me, you can't predict how next AV will look like. Alterac Valley is the biggest battleground, even zone, with a lot of objectives so there is no only one clear objective. Killing last boss is only possible when you complete other objectives so at the start of the game you have no clear goal. You have towers to burn, towers to defend, graveyards to capture, graveyards to defend, Captains, Commanders and Mine Layers to kill. Moreover, AV match can be short or very long one. In the second case, in so called turtle-AV you usually can encounter 2 big raid groups fighting in massive battle over important spot. That's what defines spontanous events for me. Southshore vs Tarren Mill isn't much different than that - in both of these you have 2 big raids groups fighting against each other. The only difference is the place of the battle.

[Werefox]

strategic zone control

Could you please elaborate on the exact practical meaning of this?