Economy Update, Part 2

[Akalix]

Greetings!

Today we have launched the long awaited Part 2 to our original Economy Update. Before I get into the changes, I would like to preface them with the knowledge that some of these changes are beta systems. This means they may vastly change within the coming week if needed. These changes are being made in an effort to improve the overall economy and player experience on the network.

Dynamic Herbalism and Mining Nodes

The price of raiding consumables has remained unsustainably and unreasonably high, even with consumables persisting through death. To combat this, we now have moved our herbalism and mining nodes onto a dynamic respawning system. This system should allow for more players to gather more resources in the wild, allowing both lower prices on the Auction House and easier access to those who would prefer to independently pick gather their own goods. Resource nodes found inside instances are exempt from this system.

Dynamic Fishing Pools

Continuing on the previous concept, we've noticed our fishing friends have been struggling with supply. All the same reasoning and actions as the above apply here as well; high-tier fishing pools have been moved onto a dynamic spawning system. Resource nodes found inside instances are exempt from this system.

Zul'Gurub Trash

One of the most prominent farms on our server has become soloing Zul'Gurub trash. This has led to a powerful gold farm and contributing to other issues in the market. To address this problem:

• Majority of creatures found in Zul'Gurub are now immune to roots and slowing effects. This excludes Speakers, Soulflayers, Atal'ai Mistresses, Withered Mistresses, Voodoo Slave, Sacrificed Trolls, Bloodseeker Bats, Razzashi Skitterer, Razzashi Broodwidow, Corrupted Infernals (Summoned by Voodoo Slave) and Sons of Hakkar.

• Zulian Crocolisks now cast Pierce Armor to prevent them from being solo farmed.

Some players may be concerned that the prices of bijous, and thus, Zanza consumables will be raised by this change—to that, yes. The prices to these will likely increase some, however, these will still likely be farmable by groups and very easily obtained by geared players simply by attending Zul'Gurub raids.

Dire Maul: East (Lasher Farm)

The most prominent farm of all on our server is lashers. ~17% of all raw gold on our network originates from this one instance. This comes from the three grey drops from the Whip Lashers mob within the dungeon. This causes massive inflation and causes the average player's gold to mean far less. To address this issue, we have made two changes:

• Whip Lasher's drop chances for Golden Sansam, Arthas' Tears, Swiftthistle, Dreamfoil, Firebloom, Gromsblood and Sungrass has been increased from approximately 1.7% to 4%. In addition to this, Whip Lashers now have a 4% chance to drop Mountain Silversage, Plaguebloom and Icecap.

• Lasher Root, Thorny Vine and Serrated sell prices have been reduced to 8s64c, 10s23c and 12s28c respectively.

Blasted Lands Quest Consumables

In the effort to increase the availability of consumables for players, we have also observed a bottleneck with grinding mobs and contesting with leveling players in Blasted Lands. The following items have had their drop chances increased to 80%:

• Snickerfang Jowl

• Vulture Gizzard

• Scorpok Pincer

• Blasted Boar Lung

• Basilisk Brain

Closing Information

We will continue to monitor the impact of these changes and adjust values as needed. More changes are planned for the future, some of which will be done in our next patch, and others being done along the way.

[Shoc]

-.-""

[Zvyrhol]

I'm happy with Lasher Farm changes. For those interested in details of gray items:

• Lasher Root - 17s28c -> 8s64c -50%

• Thorny Vine - 30s70c -> 10s23c -66%

• Serrated Petal - 61s42c -> 12s28c -80%

I prefer more radical nerf but this one is a step in good direction. At least one source of inflation is nerfed.

[Tawneyturtle]

thank u akalix and more so LHIAN hes my favourite dev hes so sexy and hot Lhian is the BEST dev he's my favorite dev

[Sheed90twotwo]

• Whip Lasher's drop chances for Golden Sansam, Arthas' Tears, Swiftthistle, Dreamfoil, Firebloom, Gromsblood and Sungrass has been increased from approximately 1.7% to 4%. In addition to this, Whip Lashers now have a 4% chance to drop Mountain Silversage, Plaguebloom and Icecap.

• Lasher Root, Thorny Vine and Serrated sell prices have been reduced to 8s64c, 10s23c and 12s28c respectively.

Thanks!

[Shoc]

I'm happy with Lasher Farm changes. For those interested in details of gray items:

• Lasher Root - 17s28c -> 8s64c -50%

• Thorny Vine - 30s70c -> 10s23c -66%

• Serrated Petal - 61s42c -> 12s28c -80%

I prefer more radical nerf but this one is a step in good direction. At least one source of inflation is nerfed.

So Basicly, they are gonna make all herbs worthless, + grey items worthless. How am i gonna make gold thisway?
This is ridicilous. At least revert the grey item change.
This is a huge "screw you" to ppl who like to farm DME for gold...
Killing random mobs for Runecloth will be more valuable than that.

[Jamey]

I'm happy with Lasher Farm changes. For those interested in details of gray items:

• Lasher Root - 17s28c -> 8s64c -50%

• Thorny Vine - 30s70c -> 10s23c -66%

• Serrated Petal - 61s42c -> 12s28c -80%

I prefer more radical nerf but this one is a step in good direction. At least one source of inflation is nerfed.

So Basicly, they are gonna make all herbs worthless, + grey items worthless. How am i gonna make gold thisway?
This is ridicilous. At least revert the grey item change.
This is a huge "screw you" to ppl who like to farm DME for gold...
Killing random mobs for Runecloth will be more valuable than that.

DME is by FAR the biggest source of raw gold, the number 2 spot is very far off. We're changing this method to bring it more in line with others while also alleviating problems with the cost of endgame consumables.

[Zvyrhol]

This is ridicilous. At least revert the grey item change.

Did you even read Akalix report? 12% of ALL RAW GOLD was being produced in this instance. Probably other 50% was from Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor, rest from other instances.

[Sheed90]

I'm happy with Lasher Farm changes. For those interested in details of gray items:

• Lasher Root - 17s28c -> 8s64c -50%

• Thorny Vine - 30s70c -> 10s23c -66%

• Serrated Petal - 61s42c -> 12s28c -80%

I prefer more radical nerf but this one is a step in good direction. At least one source of inflation is nerfed.

So Basicly, they are gonna make all herbs worthless, + grey items worthless. How am i gonna make gold thisway?
This is ridicilous. At least revert the grey item change.
This is a huge "screw you" to ppl who like to farm DME for gold...
Killing random mobs for Runecloth will be more valuable than that.

Herbs will not be worthless. Hopefully they will be drop to a normal lvl between 15-25g per stack.

[Sheed90]

I'm happy with Lasher Farm changes. For those interested in details of gray items:

• Lasher Root - 17s28c -> 8s64c -50%

• Thorny Vine - 30s70c -> 10s23c -66%

• Serrated Petal - 61s42c -> 12s28c -80%

I prefer more radical nerf but this one is a step in good direction. At least one source of inflation is nerfed.

So Basicly, they are gonna make all herbs worthless, + grey items worthless. How am i gonna make gold thisway?
This is ridicilous. At least revert the grey item change.
This is a huge "screw you" to ppl who like to farm DME for gold...
Killing random mobs for Runecloth will be more valuable than that.

DME is by FAR the biggest source of raw gold, the number 2 spot is very far off. We're changing this method to bring it more in line with others while also alleviating problems with the cost of endgame consumables.

[Tugaro]

So, how does this effect the hordes of bots sitting on the herb spawns?

"Dynamic Herbalism and Mining Nodes

The price of raiding consumables has remained unsustainably and unreasonably high, even with consumables persisting through death. To combat this, we now have moved our herbalism and mining nodes onto a dynamic respawning system. This system should allow for more players to gather more resources in the wild, allowing both lower prices on the Auction House and easier access to those who would prefer to independently pick gather their own goods. Resource nodes found inside instances are exempt from this system."

[Jc473]

So, how does this effect the hordes of bots sitting on the herb spawns?

Well, I suppose campers (or bots?) will continue to suck up a lot of the herbs. But, you have to assume that there will be way more herbs being sold on the AH at any given moment. So, surely this increase in supply will put a downward pressure on prices?

[Dimask]

I'm happy with Lasher Farm changes. For those interested in details of gray items:

• Lasher Root - 17s28c -> 8s64c -50%

• Thorny Vine - 30s70c -> 10s23c -66%

• Serrated Petal - 61s42c -> 12s28c -80%

I prefer more radical nerf but this one is a step in good direction. At least one source of inflation is nerfed.

So Basicly, they are gonna make all herbs worthless, + grey items worthless. How am i gonna make gold thisway?
This is ridicilous. At least revert the grey item change.
This is a huge "screw you" to ppl who like to farm DME for gold...
Killing random mobs for Runecloth will be more valuable than that.

DME is by FAR the biggest source of raw gold, the number 2 spot is very far off. We're changing this method to bring it more in line with others while also alleviating problems with the cost of endgame consumables.

Raw gold is a problem ofc. but new problem that u hit herbalism. it will be useless. adding all the high end herbs to lashers is a mistake. i would kick out of instances all the farmers

[Dimask]

just add more nodes in open world. I dont want to play mage in world of magefarmcraft

[Tugaro]

So, how does this effect the hordes of bots sitting on the herb spawns?

Well, I suppose campers (or bots?) will continue to suck up a lot of the herbs. But, you have to assume that there will be way more herbs being sold on the AH at any given moment. So, surely this increase in supply will put a downward pressure on prices?

We hope, but the main problem right now is the sheer number of bots sitting on each node, I can run through EPL, WPL and there are 40 static toons sitting on nodes that click as soon as it spawns, those rarely make it to the AH otherwise the prices of herbs would be reasonable, so the sheer people hording the herbs are the ultimate problem for current herb/potion/flask prices

[Likaleo]

So Basicly, they are gonna make all herbs worthless, + grey items worthless. How am i gonna make gold thisway?
This is ridicilous.

i think you are supposed to turn herbs to the alchemy pots and sell them.

[Turboman]

Whats the point in the dynamic respawn system if campers are still sitting on top of the nodes all day long without a break?

[Verdict]

I'm pleased reading this in regards to Lashers farming. Raw gold is an issue.

[Calli]

Is it possible to report these bots somewhere? I often see a few when running around in hope to get some herbs.

[Teknishun]

Is it possible to report these bots somewhere? I often see a few when running around in hope to get some herbs.

Yes via ticket.

[Sark21]

Zul'Gurub Trash

One of the most prominent farms on our server has become soloing Zul'Gurub trash. This has led to a powerful gold farm and contributing to other issues in the market. To address this problem:

• Majority of creatures found in Zul'Gurub are now immune to roots and slowing effects. This excludes Speakers, Soulflayers, Atal'ai Mistresses, Withered Mistresses, Voodoo Slave, Sacrificed Trolls, Bloodseeker Bats, Razzashi Skitterer, Razzashi Broodwidow, Corrupted Infernals (Summoned by Voodoo Slave) and Sons of Hakkar.

• Zulian Crocolisks now cast Pierce Armor to prevent them from being solo farmed.

Some players may be concerned that the prices of bijous, and thus, Zanza consumables will be raised by this change—to that, yes. The prices to these will likely increase some, however, these will still likely be farmable by groups and very easily obtained by geared players simply by attending Zul'Gurub raids.

I don't know why you devs keep going after the Zanza farm. I believe it's a good thing for the server to be able to farm Zanzas. It's a raiding consume after all. Also, trading bijous and coins among players doesn't increase inflation. It just moves gold from one player to another without generating more. If they wanted to combat inflation then they should change raw gold part of crocs' and tigers' loot table, which there is hardly any grey vendors, instead of making raiding consumes harder to get.

You have such an issue with skilled players being able to solo farm it’s ridiculous. Gear doesn’t define a player the skill does. Yes a greened geared player should be able to solo the old zg farm because they have the skill to do so. Your going to push higher consume prices for bijous granted consumes last through death but your making players who don’t want to buy from AH have no choice but to do so now.

[Redmagejoe]

It's time to stop posting. YOU are what's wrong with the economy.

[Biteyou]

I'm happy with Lasher Farm changes. For those interested in details of gray items:

• Lasher Root - 17s28c -> 8s64c -50%

• Thorny Vine - 30s70c -> 10s23c -66%

• Serrated Petal - 61s42c -> 12s28c -80%

I prefer more radical nerf but this one is a step in good direction. At least one source of inflation is nerfed.

So Basicly, they are gonna make all herbs worthless, + grey items worthless. How am i gonna make gold thisway?
This is ridicilous. At least revert the grey item change.
This is a huge "screw you" to ppl who like to farm DME for gold...
Killing random mobs for Runecloth will be more valuable than that.

It is a bad farm in it's current form, just introduces an asinine amount of raw gold into the economy. Increasing the drop of herbs off of the mobs is gold neutral and addresses the actual problem of consumable prices.

[Cyni]

I love all the mages and paladins crying about not being able to solo farm copious amounts of bijous and coins in ZG to sell anymore.

[Quidoba]

If I'm reading this change right (dynamic herb spawns), then I'm happy as a peach!!!

I have always enjoyed the work involved in farming my own mats for consumes, independent of the underlying gold/hr efficiency of that farm.

Riding around zones getting (nearly) 0 herbs was an absolutely toxic game loop for me. I've compared it to world buffs in terms of how it takes you away from playing the actual fun parts of the game. I don't care if herb prices crater (I doubt they will drop that far if things are tuned right). I'm just happy that farming herbs will be less soul crushing and reasonably rewarding again.

Thank you so much TWOW developers! You are making at least one player very happy with this change!

[Snoodydood]

I'm happy with Lasher Farm changes. For those interested in details of gray items:

• Lasher Root - 17s28c -> 8s64c -50%

• Thorny Vine - 30s70c -> 10s23c -66%

• Serrated Petal - 61s42c -> 12s28c -80%

I prefer more radical nerf but this one is a step in good direction. At least one source of inflation is nerfed.

So Basicly, they are gonna make all herbs worthless, + grey items worthless. How am i gonna make gold thisway?
This is ridicilous. At least revert the grey item change.
This is a huge "screw you" to ppl who like to farm DME for gold...
Killing random mobs for Runecloth will be more valuable than that.

So a massive 'screw you" to people who inflate adn ruin the turtle economy? yes. Screw you.

[Hawkbutt]

I'm happy with Lasher Farm changes. For those interested in details of gray items:

• Lasher Root - 17s28c -> 8s64c -50%

• Thorny Vine - 30s70c -> 10s23c -66%

• Serrated Petal - 61s42c -> 12s28c -80%

I prefer more radical nerf but this one is a step in good direction. At least one source of inflation is nerfed.

So Basicly, they are gonna make all herbs worthless, + grey items worthless. How am i gonna make gold thisway?
This is ridicilous. At least revert the grey item change.
This is a huge "screw you" to ppl who like to farm DME for gold...
Killing random mobs for Runecloth will be more valuable than that.

So a massive 'screw you" to people who inflate adn ruin the turtle economy? yes. Screw you.

I don't really understand. How is the economy being "inflated"? The cost of consumes is directly tied to the cost of materials, right? As it is easy to make a character with the required proficiency (unless recipe is very rare).

So the price of consumes is not influenced by people farming gold in DM but by the availability of materials (mining and herbing) which is being addressed.

So what exactly are we talking about when when addressing inflation? Zanza prices? Rare recipes? Rare pets? What items have their prices too inflated due to the amount of gold farmed in DM?

[Archlvt]

So Basicly, they are gonna make all herbs worthless, + grey items worthless. How am i gonna make gold thisway?
This is ridicilous. At least revert the grey item change.
This is a huge "screw you" to ppl who like to farm DME for gold...
Killing random mobs for Runecloth will be more valuable than that.

So a massive 'screw you" to people who inflate adn ruin the turtle economy? yes. Screw you.

I don't really understand. How is the economy being "inflated"? The cost of consumes is directly tied to the cost of materials, right? As it is easy to make a character with the required proficiency (unless recipe is very rare).

So the price of consumes is not influenced by people farming gold in DM but by the availability of materials (mining and herbing) which is being addressed.

So what exactly are we talking about when when addressing inflation? Zanza prices? Rare recipes? Rare pets? What items have their prices too inflated due to the amount of gold farmed in DM?

I refuse to believe that you are not trolling. But just in case you really didn't learn about inflation in grade 6 - DME farming creates gold instead of simply moving it. It is literally equivalent to the government printing money which in turn causes inflation as more money goes into circulation. The more money in circulation, the more things begin to cost. This is why flight paths for example cost gold, to remove money from the economy. It's called a gold sink. The reason we're in the mess is because people are creating money FAR too quickly for the game to remove it with gold sinks.

Luckily, The turtle devs have more of a backbone than Blizzard does and are implementing these things even though they're ruffling the feathers of people who can't see past their own beaks.

Good changes, I look forward to a sustainable economy!

[Archlvt]

I'm happy with Lasher Farm changes. For those interested in details of gray items:

• Lasher Root - 17s28c -> 8s64c -50%

• Thorny Vine - 30s70c -> 10s23c -66%

• Serrated Petal - 61s42c -> 12s28c -80%

I prefer more radical nerf but this one is a step in good direction. At least one source of inflation is nerfed.

So Basicly, they are gonna make all herbs worthless, + grey items worthless. How am i gonna make gold thisway?
This is ridicilous. At least revert the grey item change.
This is a huge "screw you" to ppl who like to farm DME for gold...
Killing random mobs for Runecloth will be more valuable than that.

It absolutely is a screw you to people who farm dme for gold. It's damaging to the economy. Also, making something more abundant doesn't immediately put it into worthless territory. As long as the commodity is desired, it will never go as far as worthless. If they revert the grey item change then that defeats the entire purpose of this movement. They want to STOP the creation of raw gold farming, as they should.

[Chudman123]

great game enhancements!

Maybe in the future you could simplify ZG drops to only the Bijou's and make em all 1 color. The coins are so annoying to me with how they mess up your bag space.

[Chudman123]

all with the math being the same effective drop rate (or maybe even a larger drop rate so people can use the consumes cheaper).

[Hawkbuttiv]

So a massive 'screw you" to people who inflate adn ruin the turtle economy? yes. Screw you.

I don't really understand. How is the economy being "inflated"? The cost of consumes is directly tied to the cost of materials, right? As it is easy to make a character with the required proficiency (unless recipe is very rare).

So the price of consumes is not influenced by people farming gold in DM but by the availability of materials (mining and herbing) which is being addressed.

So what exactly are we talking about when when addressing inflation? Zanza prices? Rare recipes? Rare pets? What items have their prices too inflated due to the amount of gold farmed in DM?

I refuse to believe that you are not trolling. But just in case you really didn't learn about inflation in grade 6 - DME farming creates gold instead of simply moving it. It is literally equivalent to the government printing money which in turn causes inflation as more money goes into circulation. The more money in circulation, the more things begin to cost. This is why flight paths for example cost gold, to remove money from the economy. It's called a gold sink. The reason we're in the mess is because people are creating money FAR too quickly for the game to remove it with gold sinks.

Luckily, The turtle devs have more of a backbone than Blizzard does and are implementing these things even though they're ruffling the feathers of people who can't see past their own beaks.

Good changes, I look forward to a sustainable economy!

Flight paths are a gold sink that balances the economy? Really? Who is the troll? Why do I even waste my time if this is considered a serious argument.

The more money in circulation, the more things begin to cost.

Which things? I buy weekly raid consumes from the AH and that is almost the only thing I buy from the AH.
With your grade 6 economics, show me how the price of raid consumes correlates with the influx of raw gold from DM lasher farms. Show me the inflation.

What I want to know is who are the people monopolizing the current herb/mining spawns? And do they sell or do they hoard? Is the market being manipulated? And what do they do with the gold? If there is inflation, then they must be purchasing stuff to get the gold into circulation, what are they buying? Sounds more like a RMT problem than an inflation problem.

After a certain point there is literally nothing to spend gold on. So how is having gold sitting in your bank doing nothing contributing to inflation?

The FUNDAMENTAL difference between this economy and a real economy is that, apart from consumes, stuff don't break. I only buy a mount once. I only buy skills once. I only buy spells once. I only buy T3 gear once (gear repair is actually a decent gold sink, much better than flight costs lmao).

And time spent farming equals more gold in circulation equals more "inflation". So reducing the raw gold from DM lashers is not "fixing" the non existent "inflation" problem. Best case it slows it down a little. Worst case, it makes it more difficult for new broke players to get gold for the major gold sinks like epic riding skill.

[Thyx]

Some testing would have been nice before implementing this change (herbs not working)... We're the guinea pigs as usual...

[Xudo]

Will you guys revert persisting through death elixirs?

[Drinkwater]

Thank you for all of your contributions!