Economy Update, Part 2

[Maxmin]

Someone tested "Whip Lashers now have a 4% chance to drop Mountain Silversage, Plaguebloom and Icecap." seems that this is not implemented as expected. no drop for 400 lashers kill.

[Imonobor]

There will always be backlash from people whose favorite farming pastime was "nerfed", even though in reality the lasher farm was buffed.

About the dynamic herb system, that is a step in the right direction! I don't know how it works (cuz you didn't explain it), but if there are more spawn locations than herbs, allowed to exist at once in the zone, it would reasonably well counter the node camping bots, because their node won't respawn until other ones are picked. Also I hope each spawn location can spawn every type of herb in that zone.

Maybe experiment with reducing the spawn timers for herbs and mines from 30 min to 25 min? It could be good for supply.

Great changes, as usual! Ignore all the whining, it's the vocal minority. We're very thankful for listening to your community!

[Vitaljke]

What's the point of introducing these large-scale changes on a PvP server with a population of 150 people?

For example, Rich Thorium spots. Why merge them with regular thorium on a PvP server? You're killing WorldPvP around the default rich thorium spots and spreading the farmer demographic across the entire continent.

Okay, a 5k population. Something needs to be done, agreed.

But with a 150 population, why? Perhaps the standard default spawn might attract new players to the PvP server. But you are also eliminating that possibility.

[Shoc]

Oh yea right guys. SUDDENLY, DME is a massive problem, and it wasnt a problem for years? Now we gotta nerf the s*** out of it, so NONE can have gold. Yea right.
Fun detected, time to nerf gear, gold... next will be the classes.

[Imonobor]

Oh yea right guys. SUDDENLY, DME is a massive problem, and it wasnt a problem for years? Now we gotta nerf the s*** out of it, so NONE can have gold. Yea right.
Fun detected, time to nerf gear, gold... next will be the classes.

You sound like a child who whines, because his parents took away his favorite toy.
It's obvious you don't really understand the change, or server economics for that matter, if you believe that more gold equals more fun. It's quite the opposite really.

[Krotux]

I like the reduction in raw gold. Would like to see it be done in other farms that generate a lot of raw gold or vendor trash!

I think the economy would be a lot better if raw gold was nerfed and farms would be balanced based on how many people want the items from that particular farm. So if a lot of people do it, it becomes less effective and people will move to new places.

[Grimscall]

We played fine for many years, and then you brought the Chinese farming money machine here and started breaking everything to hell. why bother touching the ore, the grass, and now the dm, just block the Chinese’s access here and return everything as it was. You are trying to fight the Chinese under the guise of “we want to fix the economy,” you just can’t say it openly. Soon your entire server will be buying gold on Fan Pei, because farming is becoming simply impossible! shame on you!

[Pristn]

We played fine for many years, and then you brought the Chinese farming money machine here and started breaking everything to hell. why bother touching the ore, the grass, and now the dm, just block the Chinese’s access here and return everything as it was. You are trying to fight the Chinese under the guise of “we want to fix the economy,” you just can’t say it openly. Soon your entire server will be buying gold on Fan Pei, because farming is becoming simply impossible! shame on you!

Obviously simple answers often lead to unpredictable results.

[Blehz]

I like that something is being done to "out-of-balance" farms. But I would also like to see some communication about fighting botting. Because no one's going to tell me that those sitting on herb or ore spawns are not botting. Yet they are there day in day out. And yes, I'm not afraid to say these characters or guild names usually are Chinese.

[Sheed90]

We played fine for many years, and then you brought the Chinese farming money machine here and started breaking everything to hell. why bother touching the ore, the grass, and now the dm, just block the Chinese’s access here and return everything as it was. You are trying to fight the Chinese under the guise of “we want to fix the economy,” you just can’t say it openly. Soon your entire server will be buying gold on Fan Pei, because farming is becoming simply impossible! shame on you!

I agree with you.
The point is: the damage to the economy has already been done. It's not that easy to fix this. Nerf raw gold income and more herbs hopefully fixes this.

I like that something is being done to "out-of-balance" farms. But I would also like to see some communication about fighting botting. Because no one's going to tell me that those sitting on herb or ore spawns are not botting. Yet they are there day in day out. And yes, I'm not afraid to say these characters or guild names usually are Chinese.

Ohhh watch out, you'll soon be called a racist by a certain person. This person really believes that the Chinese gaming mentality has no impact on our economy.

[Ataika]

So it finally happened.
Good job

[Shoc]

Someone tested "Whip Lashers now have a 4% chance to drop Mountain Silversage, Plaguebloom and Icecap." seems that this is not implemented as expected. no drop for 400 lashers kill.

Confirmed. 10 runs of DM lashers, and i havent got a single Icecap, Plaguebloom, or Silversage.
But the grey items are nerfed to the ground.
Ok you nerfed the grays, but man at least implement the other half of your "economy fixes"...

[Jaguare19]

Nice!

[Turboman]

Oh yea right guys. SUDDENLY, DME is a massive problem, and it wasnt a problem for years? Now we gotta nerf the s*** out of it, so NONE can have gold. Yea right.
Fun detected, time to nerf gear, gold... next will be the classes.

You sound like a child who whines, because his parents took away his favorite toy.
It's obvious you don't really understand the change, or server economics for that matter, if you believe that more gold equals more fun. It's quite the opposite really.

He has his point tho, dme was generating a lot of gold for how long now and yet only now devs decided to nerf it. I don't think it will help that much because the main problem (campers/botters) is still unsolved.

[Imonobor]

Oh yea right guys. SUDDENLY, DME is a massive problem, and it wasnt a problem for years? Now we gotta nerf the s*** out of it, so NONE can have gold. Yea right.
Fun detected, time to nerf gear, gold... next will be the classes.

You sound like a child who whines, because his parents took away his favorite toy.
It's obvious you don't really understand the change, or server economics for that matter, if you believe that more gold equals more fun. It's quite the opposite really.

He has his point tho, dme was generating a lot of gold for how long now and yet only now devs decided to nerf it. I don't think it will help that much because the main problem (campers/botters) is still unsolved.

It's better late than never. Undoubtedly this farm has done a lot of damage to the economy by flooding it with easily-accessible gold, inflating everything. But it will not continue to do so, which is a good thing. And I hope there are enough gold sinks to revert the damage, if not the devs might need to introduce one, specifically targeted towards endgame raiders who have accumulated gold. Maybe buying fashion tokens with gold? :)

About the node camping bots, I really hope the Dynamic Herbalism and Mining Nodes changes work as intended and make this behavior much less profitable.

[Eversongwoods]

They helped to nerf the inflation and made it so one guy can farm consumes for a whole raid. Now those players who hate WoW that they cater to can just raid log and play instancecraft.

so i guess we all win here

[Drakae]

Someone tested "Whip Lashers now have a 4% chance to drop Mountain Silversage, Plaguebloom and Icecap." seems that this is not implemented as expected. no drop for 400 lashers kill.

Confirmed. 10 runs of DM lashers, and i havent got a single Icecap, Plaguebloom, or Silversage.
But the grey items are nerfed to the ground.
Ok you nerfed the grays, but man at least implement the other half of your "economy fixes"...

jup running lashers for a while now over 800 lasher not a snigle drop of those herbs
dont mind the grey stuff being less tho its still a fun grind to do in between stuff

[Slashignore]

we dont need this on Telabim tho..
but will we still get it?

[Blackduck3]

should have removed living essences from their loot table as well so those might actually be worth something.

[Maeseyck]

Greetings!

Dynamic Fishing Pools

Continuing on the previous concept, we've noticed our fishing friends have been struggling with supply. All the same reasoning and actions as the above apply here as well; high-tier fishing pools have been moved onto a dynamic spawning system. Resource nodes found inside instances are exempt from this system.

Tldr:
I LOVE this idea!
Fishing is so much fun, but in combination with survival it could be so much more fun.
------------------------------
Quick questions and one idea:

how would it affect the 'school of tastyfishs' pools. If there a lot op people entering the SFE will it increase the respawn rate?

Secondly, as a RPing fisher... there are 'amazing' world spots to fish. Would it be possible to move pools to these spots?

You pick (random) locations around the continents based on their 'vibe'.
These hidden gems could become 'hotspots' for the fishing community, due to the dynamic fishing pools.
Just make sure the high end fish appear there.


My top 3 spots per Continent would be:

Kalimdor:

* Mystral Lake in Ashenvale.
This location has primal nature running through it. And towering over the lake is the Silverwind Refuge.
Love to fish here while waiting on my fellow partymembers to enter Crescent Grove.

* The Forgotten Coast in Feralas.
Close to an amazing waterfall, the veiled sea runs slowly inwards and at the spot where fresh meets salt water, elemental energy emerges. This spot has a calming effect on me, when fishing here.

* Wavestrider Beach in Tanaris.
Who doesn't like sun, sand (loads of turtles) and sea. It's just.... an in-game-holiday to be fishing there.


Eastern Kingdoms:

* Booty Bay, think about it.... Just 'in' Booty Bay. Docks filled of fishermen.

* The Loch in Loch Modan.
Man, this spot... the Stonewrought Dam.. This is an Amazing place to fish.

* Darrowmere Lake.
Surrounded by death... But an amazing lake that has cool tranquil spots.


Fishing is so much fun, but in combination with survival it could be so much more fun.

[Maeseyck]

There will always be backlash from people whose favorite farming pastime was "nerfed", even though in reality the lasher farm was buffed.

About the dynamic herb system, that is a step in the right direction! I don't know how it works (cuz you didn't explain it), but if there are more spawn locations than herbs, allowed to exist at once in the zone, it would reasonably well counter the node camping bots, because their node won't respawn until other ones are picked. Also I hope each spawn location can spawn every type of herb in that zone.

Maybe experiment with reducing the spawn timers for herbs and mines from 30 min to 25 min? It could be good for supply.

Great changes, as usual! Ignore all the whining, it's the vocal minority. We're very thankful for listening to your community!

Great response :) I agree compleley

[Hyrag]

great changes.

keep it up turtles.

[Jc473]

Someone tested "Whip Lashers now have a 4% chance to drop Mountain Silversage, Plaguebloom and Icecap." seems that this is not implemented as expected. no drop for 400 lashers kill.

Confirmed. 10 runs of DM lashers, and i havent got a single Icecap, Plaguebloom, or Silversage.
But the grey items are nerfed to the ground.
Ok you nerfed the grays, but man at least implement the other half of your "economy fixes"...

jup running lashers for a while now over 800 lasher not a snigle drop of those herbs
dont mind the grey stuff being less tho its still a fun grind to do in between stuff

I've spoken to someone a moment ago and they are getting the new herbs (Icecap, Plaguebloom & Silversage) from the DME lashers.

Have you deleted your WDB folder?

[Biteyou]

Confirmed. 10 runs of DM lashers, and i havent got a single Icecap, Plaguebloom, or Silversage.
But the grey items are nerfed to the ground.
Ok you nerfed the grays, but man at least implement the other half of your "economy fixes"...

jup running lashers for a while now over 800 lasher not a snigle drop of those herbs
dont mind the grey stuff being less tho its still a fun grind to do in between stuff

I've spoken to someone a moment ago and they are getting the new herbs (Icecap, Plaguebloom & Silversage) from the DME lashers.

Have you deleted your WDB folder?

There was a server reset for a hotfix this morning.

[Palamourf]

How does the dynamic respawning system work?

[Akzeitions2]

Paladin Tears

[Nilay]

Amazing news :)

[Palamourf]

Also add Wild steelbloom to lashers drop table, it used in very useful low level potions and elixirs, but is really expensive (for that level) and there's only few in the AH at anytime.

[Xudo]

Overnight results of economy change. 12:19 Kalimdor Time. AH scans, because stats doesn't seem to work.

Month ago, when devs allowed all elixirs to persist through death, I made a list of several elixirs and herbs to compare prices in future. Here it is:

Just for records. Weekly average price for 18 jan-24jan:
Flask of the Titans 100g21s https://www.wowauctions.net/auctionHous ... tans-13510
Flask of Distilled Wisdom 72g58c https://www.wowauctions.net/auctionHous ... sdom-13511
Flask of Supreme Power 79g15s https://www.wowauctions.net/auctionHous ... ower-13512

Elixir of Mongoose 9g23s https://www.wowauctions.net/auctionHous ... oose-13452
Greater Arcane Elixir 3g45s https://www.wowauctions.net/auctionHous ... ixir-13454
Elixir of the Sages 5g65s https://www.wowauctions.net/auctionHous ... ages-13447

Black Lotus 44g9s https://www.wowauctions.net/auctionHous ... otus-13468
Gromsblood 1g26s https://www.wowauctions.net/auctionHous ... blood-8846
Plaguebloom 2g39s https://www.wowauctions.net/auctionHous ... loom-13466
Mountain Silversage 2g8s https://www.wowauctions.net/auctionHous ... sage-13465
Icecap 1g37s https://www.wowauctions.net/auctionHous ... ecap-13467

Weekly average price for 15 Feb - 21 Feb
Flask of the Titans 95g26s (-4g95s)
Flask of Distilled Wisdom 72g57s (-1s)
Flask of Supreme Power 76g (-3g15s)

Elixir of Mongoose 9g42s (+20s)
Greater Arcane Elixir 3g89s (+44s)
Elixir of the Sages 3g84s (-1g81s)

Black Lotus 40g 22s (-4g)
Gromsblood 1g 15s (-11s)
Plaguebloom 2g 53s (+14s)
Mountain Silversage 2g3s (-5s)

I think that persisting elixirs reduced price of elixir of the sages and flask of the titans. Probably because less gromsblood is being consumed.
Arcane elixir price has increased, but it does not relate to Plaguebloom price.

I don't see how exactly persisting elixirs helped to reduce prices.

Gromsblood starts from 1g/herb (-15s from previous month, -42s from previous week)
Plaguebloom starts from 1g78s/herb (-75s from previous month, -1g65s from previous week)
Mountain Silversage starts from 1g29s/herb (-74s from previous month, -1g25s from previous week)
Black Lotus starts from 39g/item (almost equal to month-old price, -8g from previous week)

Elixir of the Mongoose starts from 7g77s/item (-1g65s from previous month, -4g81s from previous week)
Greater Arcane Elixir starts from 2g80s/item (-1g9s from previous month, -1g5s from previous week)
Flask of the Titans starts from 98g/item (+3g from previous month, -18g from previous week)

I did a 1 hour lap over Felwood and found 2 nodes of Sungrass, 7 nodes of Golden Sansam, 5 nodes of Arthas Tears, 1 node of gromsblood, 2 nodes of Dreamfoil, 9 nodes of Small Thorium, 3 Truesilver, 1 Rich Thorium.
I didn't see any other people running around for herbs. Some herbs spawned when I visited their position second time, after gathering some Arthas tears.
I assume that all herbs, which flood the market come from DME. Because it is more productive to stealth-run it, than to roam around the felwood.
It also means, that best profession now is good old "level yourself a mage".

I assume this change is successful in terms of market balance. Price will probably drop even more, as long as people flood the market with herbs.

UPD added difference compared to previous week using price from https://www.wowauctions.net/auctionHous ... tans-13510 for period 08 Mar - 14 Mar

[Hdliebtwo]

You say Black Lotus and Flask of Titans are unchanged from last month.
You didn't take into consideration prices just kept growing from then on so.
In reality Black Lotus was 50 gold > dropped to 39 gold
and Flask of the Titans was 115 gold > dropped to 98 gold.
Everything dropped drastically.
Giid job Turtle Team!

[Zvyrhol]

I assume that all herbs, which flood the market come from DME.

It's hard to tell. The market was flooded with a lot of herbs instantly after the economy update part 2 was announced. I think people knew the herbs will be cheaper so people who had many herbs in the bank decided to sell them as quickly as possible before it's too late. We will see in a few weeks how impactful Lasher farm is.

[Geojak]

With dme regular herb prices will fall in price, this will make regular pen world herbing less attractive to do. Black lotus only come from regular herbing thought.
I expect those to raise in price by another 50% over the coming 2 months unless their respawn has fastened too

[Xudo]

With dme regular herb prices will fall in price, this will make regular pen world herbing less attractive to do. Black lotus only come from regular herbing thought.
I expect those to raise in price by another 50% over the coming 2 months unless their respawn has fastened too

If open world farming is dynamic, it is possible to see empty locations because noone gathers.
If there are a lot of herbers, then it will be high amount of herbs, but if there will be few herbers, then amount of herbs can be super low.

I assume that all herbs, which flood the market come from DME.

It's hard to tell. The market was flooded with a lot of herbs instantly after the economy update part 2 was announced. I think people knew the herbs will be cheaper so people who had many herbs in the bank decided to sell them as quickly as possible before it's too late. We will see in a few weeks how impactful Lasher farm is.

It is illogical to sell herbs cheap. You can hoard any amount in your bank and if it is full, then you create another bank.
There is no reason to sell herbs low. Especially if you gambling on its price and bought them high.
At this moment (20:29 server time) 22 mages and 8 paladins are in Dire maul. Guess, what exactly are they doing?

You say Black Lotus and Flask of Titans are unchanged from last month.
You didn't take into consideration prices just kept growing from then on so.
In reality Black Lotus was 50 gold > dropped to 39 gold
and Flask of the Titans was 115 gold > dropped to 98 gold.
Everything dropped drastically.
Giid job Turtle Team!

You are right, I just don't have recorded data from last week. I updated my post with data. Looks like wowauctions is back up.

[Tlwdssd]

The ZG crocs were changed months ago, however it wasnt enough. Personally I found it rather fun doing those runs. I also think the only gold inflation it added was selling greens/blues to vendors which it was better to DE them for mats anyway. One of the main reasons i decided to not play anymore and I figured it was only a matter of time before any sort of rewarding solo farm would be nerfed too. Its an mmo but I think if a solo farm that was rewarding AND challenging was added then I, and others like me, would still enjoy playing. - jaded mage player XD

[Jc473]

Overnight results of economy change. 12:19 Kalimdor Time. AH scans, because stats doesn't seem to work.

Weekly average price for 15 Feb - 21 Feb
Flask of the Titans 95g26s (-4g95s)
Flask of Distilled Wisdom 72g57s (-1s)
Flask of Supreme Power 76g (-3g15s)

Elixir of Mongoose 9g42s (+20s)
Greater Arcane Elixir 3g89s (+44s)
Elixir of the Sages 3g84s (-1g81s)

Black Lotus 40g 22s (-4g)
Gromsblood 1g 15s (-11s)
Plaguebloom 2g 53s (+14s)
Mountain Silversage 2g3s (-5s)

I assume this change is successful in terms of market balance. Price will probably drop even more, as long as people flood the market with herbs.

Nice info! Would be great if you did this in a week's time :)

As per our previous discussions, I'm not really surprised and expect it to continue dropping by quite a bit more! The combination of all their changes has put a real downward pressure on the prices. Long may it continue.

For those people who are nervous about the lack of raw gold farming, well, a friend of mine just told me that they're still getting 30-40g from 5 runs after selling grey and green items. This is still a good amount of gold considering how much effort is required. Also, if these people were farming this gold for the express purpose of buying herbs/consumables, then they should be very happy to see the decreasing prices.

Oh, thought this was also worth pointing out that the patch notes need to be corrected:
12% of all raw gold on our network originates in this one instance

On Vrograg's latest stream, Akalix said the data was reanalysed and it is actually 15%-18%.
(This is a link for this quote - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFLFSsZXD-E&t=6172s)