World of Consumablecraft and raid CDs

[Nablatidis]

Its my understanding that why you are able to stack so many consumables in a raid is because the world buffs in raids were removed and consumables are meant to give players that edge that world buffs used to give.
That's a very good thing imho, the removing of world buffs in raids I mean. I always disliked it.
However, the solution of consumables instead has gotten a bit out of hand. If you're a min/maxer and want to do a meaningful contribution, performance (like rotation) aside, to any raid, instead of world buffs you now need consumables.
Here is where I think turtle wow made the wrong decision and where retail wow has done much better post-vanilla.

I'd suggest having raid cooldowns and class abilities to balance the lack of world buffs more than consumables. Abilities like
Spirit link - as a raid wide damage reduction,
Healing tide totem - A strong AOE heal
Tranquility - as a raid wide powerful AOE heal for 8-10 seconds.
Bloodlust/heroism - A raid wide 30% haste buff for 30 seconds.
Rallying cry - defensive raid CD to increase health temporarily.

You would use them in fights where there was massive outbound damage going or maybe during an enrage timer. It adds an element of strategy to raiding that doesn't exist today in turtle wow. I would also bring in on use potions.

My main point is this:
I'm more interested in raid CDs than anything else,
In order to kill that hard boss where you need the numbers on your side, I'd much rather have to make a game plan and chain raid CDs in order and coordinate it with the raid and when to bloodlust and pop potions. On use potions is something that would add to this too.

Than...

You need these 7 consumables in order to kill X boss.

Am I saying to remove consumables completely? Absolutely not, it's important to have gold sinks in the game and to keep professions profitable still. But it could use some limitations. For example, 1 JuJu buff, 1 Agi/int buff (elixir being the cheap one), one defensive buff (armor or stam). Keep most of the potions, they add a strategic layer to them on their own.

As a secondary point, this would open up and make end game raiding accessible to a lot more players for the sole reason that they would be able to afford it. Not being able to raid Naxx and beyond due to not enough gold is a stupid thing imo. There is a reason that Naxx was released again in Wotlk and that was because so few people got to see it. It should be hard, but it shouldn't require you to be rich to raid it.

[Majestik51]

join Tel 'Abim server, and u wont have no such problems :P

[Nablatidis]

The point was to add something fun to the game instead of consumables that doesn't add much.

[Deeno]

So in summary, this is about how to make endcontent more accessible, and your suggestion is via certain class abilities. Right?

I like your ideas, dont get me wrong, but i think this approach is not easy to implement and maintain, since you have to think about pvp and the neverending balancing.

Regarding why naxx wasnt a thing back in the day was more about time and not gold, as tbc came "too soon" players just didnt bother doing naxx, since the whole game will reset in a few month. At least thats what a heard.

[Nablatidis]

Yes, to make it more accessible and to remove an aspect of the game that is crucial in a way but that doesnt add much in terms of "fun factor" - The amount of consumables.

I don't know about balancing, I'd say abilities like tranq and spirit link will be used in pvp, but I don't think they'd change much given how long CDs they have and that its so short. You could even disable bloodlust/heroism in BGs if needed.

Yeah, point about Naxx. I just remember a wow dev talking about it back in the day that only a small percentage of players had actually seen the raid they had spent so much development time on.

[Xudo]

I don't agree that consumables are gold sinks. Because you buy them from other players. They only transfer gold from raiders to gatherers. Consumables are "time sinks". Be it by farming herbs or by farming gold. If you reduce raid preparation time, then people will start to "raidlog". I believe turtle devs don't want this behavior. This is why turtle devs made jujus and zanzas to be stackable.
If people will only "raidlog", then population number will drop significantly. There will be constant naxxes, but very few people online.

If you remove existing time sink, then you should add some other time sink.
I believe that PvP should be promoted more even for raiders. So they spend time on battleground and arena as part of their raid preparation.
May be more gold from mark turn-in (so PvP would be better goldfarm than lashers) or some stackable consumables from mark turn-in.

[Nablatidis]

Okay, time sinks not gold sinks. But also note that I do not wish to remove them completely. But I've heard that people tend to spend hundreds of gold on a single Naxx run. That seems crazy to me.

What I'm actually trying to convene here is that I'm more interested in raid CDs than anything else,

In order to kill that hard boss where you need the numbers on your side, I'd much rather have to make a game plan and chain raid CDs in order and coordinate it with the raid and when to bloodlust and pop potions. On use potions is something that would add to this too.

Than...

You need these 7 consumables in order to kill X boss.

[Elesion]

But I've heard that people tend to spend hundreds of gold on a single Naxx run. That seems crazy to me.
[...]
Than...

You need these 7 consumables in order to kill X boss.

There are many different styles of raiding. The complaints you hear about "having" to spend several hundred gold per week on raiding are mostly from a very vocal minority of high-powered raiders who speed-clear instances buffed up to their eyeballs. There's nothing wrong with that, that's just how they enjoy the game. But that's by far not the only way to raid.

Certain consumables are pretty much unavoidable, like protection pots for some fights. Others can be limited to bosses your group struggles with. Since the only real currency in the game has been correctly identified as "time", it boils down to you paying in time at some point. You can grind for consumables and have shorter raiding times. You can accept longer raids in return for shorter consumable grinds. Or even in the big picture you can run Naxx a few weeks longer to accumulate more gear making consumables less important to progress.

There is also the other model where the raid group/guild can help members with consumables - provide flasks for tanks, offer discounted consumables to raiders, etc. The model with full individual responsibility where everyone is expected to bring hundreds of golds in consumables each week is limited to very few guilds. There are no encounters in the game that would mechanically demand this level of consumables. It's voluntary.

[Xudo]

What I'm actually trying to convene here is that I'm more interested in raid CDs than anything else,

In order to kill that hard boss where you need the numbers on your side, I'd much rather have to make a game plan and chain raid CDs in order and coordinate it with the raid and when to bloodlust and pop potions.

This is actually good idea. Not sure whether it should be plain +damage or +health though.
For example there is Tranquilizing shot in MC, which is required to kill Magmadar. It is CD and you need to use it in proper order. It is absolutely useless in PvP though.

Is it possible to make boss-specific spells for every existing boss in the game?
I think it is. It can be made by raid-specific trinkets or even spells like Tranquilizing shot.
For example:
1. trinket which "defuses" bomb of Geddon with 1 minute cd
2. trinket which prevent teleportation of Shazzrah for 10 seconds with cd 1 minute
3. trinket to prevent explosion of Garr adds. effect lasts 10 seconds with cd 5 minutes
I believe they simplify fight and are not very invasive because require some skill and coordination to use.

[Akos1896]

I'm fine with restricting consumables on raiders.
But I'd boost some (in PVE neglected) classes so they contribute more and would close up the gap made by the lacking world buff by slightly better individual performances and abilities.

I list some ideas of classes I played. List is just a sample since I haven't played with prot palas or melee hunters or arcane mages f. ex.
Destruction lock - a way to keep up fire damage spells without threat problems and a meaningful conflag which helps in raids.
Arms warrior - allowing sweeping strikes in berserker stance and some kind of arms-only debuff. Like an increased crit chance percentage on a mob crited by an arms warrior.
Ele shaman / boomkin - better mana regen and a nature 'curse of elements'
Enh shaman - added hit chance, increased melee damage

With some new buffs (like the ES druid buff) and class rebalances (like shadow priest which is totally fine now in PVE) we make the overall raider team stronger. I'm fine with a world buff-less world which also restricts consumable usage (specially since consumable prices started to skyrocket) if we push some classes more. Better overall party strength and more variety in the teams.

[Burunduk]

It's easier to deport all chinese.
They are responsible for high prices on consumables.

[Drubarrymooer]

It's easier to deport all chinese.
They are responsible for high prices on consumables.

They are not. Please stop with the anti Chinese rhetoric. During NA/EU peaks there are NA/EU node campers. There are NA/EU scalpers as well. This isn't the first time the market has been over inflated and it's happened before the sea influx as well. Don't make baseless claims that spread hate.

[Nablatidis]

What I'm actually trying to convene here is that I'm more interested in raid CDs than anything else,

In order to kill that hard boss where you need the numbers on your side, I'd much rather have to make a game plan and chain raid CDs in order and coordinate it with the raid and when to bloodlust and pop potions.

This is actually good idea. Not sure whether it should be plain +damage or +health though.
For example there is Tranquilizing shot in MC, which is required to kill Magmadar. It is CD and you need to use it in proper order. It is absolutely useless in PvP though.

Is it possible to make boss-specific spells for every existing boss in the game?...

You're on to something here. It actually already exists in BWL to an extent. You can farm water in Stratholme that kills the adds on the Nefarian fight. There are Hourglass Sands that drop that you use to remove a debuff in the Chromaggus fight. I believe there is a trinket that has a chance to proc a 5% haste buff (or similar) to the entire raid. Trinkets that affect the entire raid is an interesting idea.

I'm fine with restricting consumables on raiders.
But I'd boost some (in PVE neglected) classes so they contribute more and would close up the gap made by the lacking world buff by slightly better individual performances and abilities.

I list some ideas of classes I played. List is just a sample since I haven't played with prot palas or melee hunters or arcane mages f. ex.
Destruction lock - a way to keep up fire damage spells without threat problems and a meaningful conflag which helps in raids.
Arms warrior - allowing sweeping strikes in berserker stance and some kind of arms-only debuff. Like an increased crit chance percentage on a mob crited by an arms warrior.
Ele shaman / boomkin - better mana regen and a nature 'curse of elements'
Enh shaman - added hit chance, increased melee damage

With some new buffs (like the ES druid buff) and class rebalances (like shadow priest which is totally fine now in PVE) we make the overall raider team stronger. I'm fine with a world buff-less world which also restricts consumable usage (specially since consumable prices started to skyrocket) if we push some classes more. Better overall party strength and more variety in the teams.

Yeah there are definitely some classes that needs some love. The reason I went with raid CDs is I think it'd be easier to balance it with for example pvp. Or as an example as for the paladins where people are complaining that their buffs were too extreme. Balancing individual class changes is I guess very easy to screw up. With that said, I know locks do suffer from threat issues and this would be one of the example of balance changes that wouldn't affect pvp in a big way.
But raid wide CDs affect the entire raid in various ways. I'd say that is a relatively easy change to implement. Class changes unfortunately is not, even tho its needed.

I'm not familiar with the druid buff in ES - can you explain?

[Akos1896]

" Added a new raid buff to Druids: Emerald Blessing. This ability can be acquired from Emerald Sanctum after a small questline. At the cost of one Bright Dream Shard, this aura grants raid members within 80 yards 10% movement speed, 1% spell hit and 5% mana regeneration in combat. "
Has a rather expensive reagent but makes druids more useful in late raids.