Where are the PVP players who wanted a new fresh PvP realm?

[Algeri420]

healthy u guys say? I skip every group/elite quest at alliance cuz theres not enough people to do them. Why you keep repeating "pvp is healthy" "pvp server is not dying" "everything is okay, everyone else is troll/bait"? are you getting paid by torta or youre just delusional and turtle wow is part of your identity?

[Xudo]

Assembling group for elite quest or dungeon on low population server might be easier than on high population server. Because you have one good argument "I assemble the group now and it is not clear when you get other chance to do this dungeon or elite quest if you don't join". It usually works if you play tank or healer role.
Though almost all elite quests can be done by 2 characters of any class and spec.

I did almost all group content as tank on extremely low populated servers (like some well known french server before population surge).

Assembling a guild, scheduling your activities, looking for people in social media or even on forums works too.

[Thol]

healthy u guys say? I skip every group/elite quest at alliance cuz theres not enough people to do them. Why you keep repeating "pvp is healthy" "pvp server is not dying" "everything is okay, everyone else is troll/bait"? are you getting paid by torta or youre just delusional and turtle wow is part of your identity?

I had issues to find group on the PvE realm too. It's not only about pop, Because of tents and new quests players now tend to skip elite quests more. On the PvP server, I would advise you to join a guild, in ours, we help our members do elite quests every day.

You should avoid unnecessary personal attacks it doesn't help driving your point across.
I don't think Torta wanted the PvP realm, the initial goal was to always keep one realm, I don't think most team members would care if the PvP server died. PvP was never the focus. PvP server was around 1k off peak even after SoD launch, just need to be patient and let it grow, PvE server started below 1k too and we still had plenty of fun. Community was fewer but quality was higher, theres was no doomer like you back then.

[Vaikaris]

I wanted a fresh realm, because t2.5+ pvp is garbage.

I'm still playing, but from the very start I said, we KNOW what the problem is - horde OP racials attract the pvp crowd, leads to heavy imbalance and server dies.

This was not fixed.

I.e. Turtle, which ironically was supposed to be the anti-classic, did a classic - where the devs intentionally made mistakes that killed what they released so their idea could be reinforced. Just like Blizzard released a broken, badly planned classic so they can show us retail was right all along, twow released a pvp server without adressing the obvious core issues of a pvp server so they can show us pve was right all along.

And you, like retail people, blame the players instead of those that did the mistake :)

I guess Turtle Token is coming soon.

I dont say ur right but thats the feeling i got about the server too. A few words could easily dolve most problems but the lack of insight or acknowledge of existing problems really hurts the server and the community. Its the perfect soil for trolls and toxic behavior which seems to be tolerated by staff.

I don't think its tolerated, I think it's encouraged.

To this day I think Blizzard killed classic intentionally because they were mad people wanted vanilla back and they wanted to drive home "you think you do, but you don't".

I think twow devs were mad people kept asking for "fresh" and "pvp changes" so they dumped a fresh pvp server, refused to fix any issues and even exacerbated them (they promised us faction balance yet when leveling horde outnumbered alliance) and are now happy people aren't happy with it.

[Bandyc]

It's seasonal content though, not everyone is into that. Fresh chasers will always keep switching servers. Turtle is about taking your time in a truly persistent world.

Im refering to classic as a whole. Private vanilla died 2019. SoD is totally irrelevant in this as classic would be alive despite sod.

[Dracarusggotham]

I mean, ...

Questing and leveling in vanilla WOW is hard. Vanilla PVP shows people that doing so on a PVP realm isn't worth the effort.

And there is where the game lost the main attractive and that's the reason why the people in the PvE Server don't go to the PvP, we are not in a generic PvP Server.
We are in TWoW, the devs put all their effort in new quests, stories, places, dungeons, raids, etc.
Questing, leveling and exploring is the main attractive here, no the PvP, for that reason the devs never put attention in a PvP Server, they put a small PvP for those who wants to make PvP.
Damn, you made an amazing guide about all the new places that the devs created for TWoW. So, I hope the people never ask for a new PvP Realm.

[Jc473]

I wanted a fresh realm, because t2.5+ pvp is garbage.

I'm still playing, but from the very start I said, we KNOW what the problem is - horde OP racials attract the pvp crowd, leads to heavy imbalance and server dies.

This was not fixed.

Please stop this narrative. You created a previous thread about it and people already discussed this with you. There has been no 'heavy imbalance' on this server. As per their population graph, the faction ratio has always been about 46:54. They already said they have implemented a system to ensure a respectable faction balance is maintained. So, for the first month, they have 100% achieved this goal. If you are going to argue that 46:54 is 'heavily imbalanced' then there really isn't much point in continuing the conversation. I'm 99% sure that the majority of people who have stopped playing did not do so due to the apparent faction imbalance.

I.e. Turtle, which ironically was supposed to be the anti-classic, did a classic - where the devs intentionally made mistakes that killed what they released so their idea could be reinforced. Just like Blizzard released a broken, badly planned classic so they can show us retail was right all along, twow released a pvp server without adressing the obvious core issues of a pvp server so they can show us pve was right all along.

And you, like retail people, blame the players instead of those that did the mistake :)

I guess Turtle Token is coming soon.

This is an absolutely horrid and cynical perspective. I'm more willing to believe it when there are big corporations involved but you're actually going to acuse a small TWoW team of this? Absolutely ludicrous....

Put your thinking cap on for a second. There are far better ways to encourage people to play on the PvE realm than go through all the effort of setting up a sacrificial PvP realm!

[Oomentaloo]

I wanted a fresh realm, because t2.5+ pvp is garbage.

I'm still playing, but from the very start I said, we KNOW what the problem is - horde OP racials attract the pvp crowd, leads to heavy imbalance and server dies.

This was not fixed.

I.e. Turtle, which ironically was supposed to be the anti-classic, did a classic - where the devs intentionally made mistakes that killed what they released so their idea could be reinforced. Just like Blizzard released a broken, badly planned classic so they can show us retail was right all along, twow released a pvp server without adressing the obvious core issues of a pvp server so they can show us pve was right all along.

And you, like retail people, blame the players instead of those that did the mistake :)

I guess Turtle Token is coming soon.

I dont say ur right but thats the feeling i got about the server too. A few words could easily dolve most problems but the lack of insight or acknowledge of existing problems really hurts the server and the community. Its the perfect soil for trolls and toxic behavior which seems to be tolerated by staff.

I don't think its tolerated, I think it's encouraged.

To this day I think Blizzard killed classic intentionally because they were mad people wanted vanilla back and they wanted to drive home "you think you do, but you don't".

I think twow devs were mad people kept asking for "fresh" and "pvp changes" so they dumped a fresh pvp server, refused to fix any issues and even exacerbated them (they promised us faction balance yet when leveling horde outnumbered alliance) and are now happy people aren't happy with it.

I think you are overreacting.

Firstly, many players were annoyed about the "Fresh, when?" crowd, probably developers too, but we there is no indication that the developers willingly sabotaged the PvP realm. That's bull.

Secondly, the PvP realm crowd assured everybody that asked, that they just want to have a new realm, the RP-PvE guys should just give in, because then everybody is happy.

Thirdly, everybody that played a couple of weeks on Turtle know that its a gem, but the gem has broken edges, some cuts are a bit wrong and some side aren't even touched. Everybody knows that it is a massive workload with different opinions to finish the unpolished or broken parts.

Fourthly, the realm is balanced but not of course not in every situation (level, zone). Maybe the playstyle of horde players are different so you think there are more. Classes were not balanced before launch and everybody knew that it would take time to fix some stuff. We waited long for the Gilneas patch and they delivered something very good.

Lastly, as long as the players on the PvP realm have fun its all good. And there seems to be a core community that likes it. If you want a perfect balanced game, you have to look somewhere else OR you play on the realm and make it work.

[Filauro1989]

I personally stopped levelling because of the normal xp ratio. As a player that levelled several characters I think that a 1 to 60 with normal xp gain is really hard and, for me, doesn’t make my game relaxing. I understand the fact that they tried to provide a full and original experience to new players, but I think that the point of a lot of pvp players is pvping around the world, or bgs or whatever and, even if wpvp while levelling is fun, the majority wants to get 60 and start to get gear to express the character potential. I would have kept, or at least let people choose, the 30% xp boost provided by the war glyph… this is my opinion.

[Marafado]

hehe lets be honest, the normal fresh pvp "player" like a fast run to 60, farm the pre bis raid gear incluing the av ring (fast runs for efficient pvp ;p), and raid logging :)

This play style have nothing to do compared to what turtle staff was selling before the "hype", but i guess in the end if you see an oportunity to make some rublos you take it.

Its all about earn rubles, the china provide the gold and r14 toons and torta provides the mounts and skins ;p for a proper raid logging hehe

[Jc473]

I personally stopped levelling because of the normal xp ratio. As a player that levelled several characters I think that a 1 to 60 with normal xp gain is really hard and, for me, doesn’t make my game relaxing. I understand the fact that they tried to provide a full and original experience to new players, but I think that the point of a lot of pvp players is pvping around the world, or bgs or whatever and, even if wpvp while levelling is fun, the majority wants to get 60 and start to get gear to express the character potential. I would have kept, or at least let people choose, the 30% xp boost provided by the war glyph… this is my opinion.

Are you aware of the tent system? Effectively, it allows for a x2 levelling experience which completely overshadows the 30% xp boost from the warmode glyph.

[Jc473]

hehe lets be honest, the normal fresh pvp "player" like a fast run to 60, farm the pre bis raid gear incluing the av ring (fast runs for efficient pvp ;p), and raid logging :)

How are the TWoW team meant to control how the 'normal fresh pvp' players behave? If they are treating the whole thing as a race to 60, that's their prerogative and you can't stop them.

If players want a nice PvP environment throughout the 1-60 journey, then they can take it upon themselves and create it.

This play style have nothing to do compared to what turtle staff was selling before the "hype"

I'm not sure what you are suggesting here. What do you think the turtle staff were selling before the hype?

Are you suggesting that the TWoW philosphy is to take it slow? Well, again, there's nothing they can do about a bunch of players rushing to 60.

[Mackylol]

Im not worried tbh, phase 1 has no content.

[Vaikaris]

healthy u guys say? I skip every group/elite quest at alliance cuz theres not enough people to do them. Why you keep repeating "pvp is healthy" "pvp server is not dying" "everything is okay, everyone else is troll/bait"? are you getting paid by torta or youre just delusional and turtle wow is part of your identity?

I had issues to find group on the PvE realm too. It's not only about pop, Because of tents and new quests players now tend to skip elite quests more. On the PvP server, I would advise you to join a guild, in ours, we help our members do elite quests every day.

You should avoid unnecessary personal attacks it doesn't help driving your point across.
I don't think Torta wanted the PvP realm, the initial goal was to always keep one realm, I don't think most team members would care if the PvP server died. PvP was never the focus. PvP server was around 1k off peak even after SoD launch, just need to be patient and let it grow, PvE server started below 1k too and we still had plenty of fun. Community was fewer but quality was higher, theres was no doomer like you back then.

If they didn't want a pvp realm, why announce it, why push it and why outright point blank refuse to fix any issue whatsoever?

This will never be fixed, because the toxicity has set in. The pve realm was fun and non-toxic even when it had 100 players on. That's the point.

Here they're letting toxicity run rampant, promoting it even and you think it'll fix itself? Hell no.

[Vaikaris]

I dont say ur right but thats the feeling i got about the server too. A few words could easily dolve most problems but the lack of insight or acknowledge of existing problems really hurts the server and the community. Its the perfect soil for trolls and toxic behavior which seems to be tolerated by staff.

I don't think its tolerated, I think it's encouraged.

To this day I think Blizzard killed classic intentionally because they were mad people wanted vanilla back and they wanted to drive home "you think you do, but you don't".

I think twow devs were mad people kept asking for "fresh" and "pvp changes" so they dumped a fresh pvp server, refused to fix any issues and even exacerbated them (they promised us faction balance yet when leveling horde outnumbered alliance) and are now happy people aren't happy with it.

I think you are overreacting.

Firstly, many players were annoyed about the "Fresh, when?" crowd, probably developers too, but we there is no indication that the developers willingly sabotaged the PvP realm. That's bull.

Secondly, the PvP realm crowd assured everybody that asked, that they just want to have a new realm, the RP-PvE guys should just give in, because then everybody is happy.

Thirdly, everybody that played a couple of weeks on Turtle know that its a gem, but the gem has broken edges, some cuts are a bit wrong and some side aren't even touched. Everybody knows that it is a massive workload with different opinions to finish the unpolished or broken parts.

Fourthly, the realm is balanced but not of course not in every situation (level, zone). Maybe the playstyle of horde players are different so you think there are more. Classes were not balanced before launch and everybody knew that it would take time to fix some stuff. We waited long for the Gilneas patch and they delivered something very good.

Lastly, as long as the players on the PvP realm have fun its all good. And there seems to be a core community that likes it. If you want a perfect balanced game, you have to look somewhere else OR you play on the realm and make it work.

Alright, give me another reason that we've known for 15 years horde pvp racials skew pvp badly and prevent any meaningful balance from taking place, but there were 0 changes on racials with the announcement of the pvp realm?

And no, very few people are having fun on the pvp realm. It's extremely toxic.

[Thol]

And no, very few people are having fun on the pvp realm. It's extremely toxic.

[Filauro1989]

I personally stopped levelling because of the normal xp ratio. As a player that levelled several characters I think that a 1 to 60 with normal xp gain is really hard and, for me, doesn’t make my game relaxing. I understand the fact that they tried to provide a full and original experience to new players, but I think that the point of a lot of pvp players is pvping around the world, or bgs or whatever and, even if wpvp while levelling is fun, the majority wants to get 60 and start to get gear to express the character potential. I would have kept, or at least let people choose, the 30% xp boost provided by the war glyph… this is my opinion.

Are you aware of the tent system? Effectively, it allows for a x2 levelling experience which completely overshadows the 30% xp boost from the warmode glyph.

Of course I know it, but it’s 2x on xp by killing mobs…. 30% from war glyph it’s overall.

[Jc473]

Of course I know it, but it’s 2x on xp by killing mobs…. 30% from war glyph it’s overall.

Well, I'm pretty sure 2x xp from mobs is substantially better than 30% from overall. During Vanilla levelling, the majority of quests require you to kill mobs.

[Martym00se]

I just started turtle wow on both servers. I have a lvl 15 warrior on both. I know this is just the tip of the iceberg on content. From what I say, the PVP server was more friendly to help out. Kinda feels like a huge server of one guild. The original server, I did notice 4 out of 5 players were HC players, they seemed to be grouped up and playing tagging mobs and rolling forward. Seemed some were multiboxing with a higher level toon to push them along.

Playing from the midwest USA, the ping was the same on both servers. I appreciate reliving my W0W days since I beta tested it many years ago. I am mostly a solo player, but my question is running dungeons. Will they be viable on the PVP server, only time will tell.

Remember people this is NOT a paid subscription.

I think the GM's need to get a post out on what they expect to have on the servers. Will cross server BG's help, I would say so to fill the PVP void.

The new server also did pop when SoD was hitting, so there was the loss in player base i think.

Loving my experience with TurtleW0W so far.

Thank you.

[Majestik51]

I just started turtle wow on both servers. I have a lvl 15 warrior on both. I know this is just the tip of the iceberg on content. From what I say, the PVP server was more friendly to help out. Kinda feels like a huge server of one guild. The original server, I did notice 4 out of 5 players were HC players, they seemed to be grouped up and playing tagging mobs and rolling forward. Seemed some were multiboxing with a higher level toon to push them along.

Playing from the midwest USA, the ping was the same on both servers. I appreciate reliving my W0W days since I beta tested it many years ago. I am mostly a solo player, but my question is running dungeons. Will they be viable on the PVP server, only time will tell.

Remember people this is NOT a paid subscription.

I think the GM's need to get a post out on what they expect to have on the servers. Will cross server BG's help, I would say so to fill the PVP void.

The new server also did pop when SoD was hitting, so there was the loss in player base i think.

Loving my experience with TurtleW0W so far.

Thank you.

Welcome!
and yes Cross Server - BGs PLEASE!!!

[Xudo]

If you want cross server battlegrounds only to reduce queue time, then it is really bad wish and you will not be happy when it be implemented.

Gear difference between PvE and PvP server is huge. It will harm PvP server community even more.
If you want to participate only in 60 lvl battlegrounds and ranking, then why would you want to level character on PvP server? You don't care about world-PvP anyway. You have warmode on PvE to get additional 30% xp. Leveling on PvE server is easier and faster. You probably have main character on PvE server with gold, so you don't have to solve money problem. AH prices on PvE server is higher, so even if you don't have 60 lvl character, you can get more gold from selling stuff on AH.

Regarding low level bg. PvE server have enough twinks with lvl 60 enchants. Those enchants are not available on PvP server. So people will get even less reasons to join low level battlegrounds on both servers.

[Dracarusggotham]

So...the server is healthy, right?
26/11/2023:
Alliance: 1122
Horde: 1147
Total: 2269
------------------------------------------------------------------
3/12/2023:
Alliance: 685
Horde: 740
Total: 1425

844 Players less in one week...

[Filauro1989]

Of course I know it, but it’s 2x on xp by killing mobs…. 30% from war glyph it’s overall.

Well, I'm pretty sure 2x xp from mobs is substantially better than 30% from overall. During Vanilla levelling, the majority of quests require you to kill mobs.

Dude you are missing the point, tents are present in the pve server as well so, basically, u have 2x byrested xp and 30% overall by the glyph...

[Jc473]

Of course I know it, but it’s 2x on xp by killing mobs…. 30% from war glyph it’s overall.

Well, I'm pretty sure 2x xp from mobs is substantially better than 30% from overall. During Vanilla levelling, the majority of quests require you to kill mobs.

Dude you are missing the point, tents are present in the pve server as well so, basically, u have 2x byrested xp and 30% overall by the glyph...

Fair enough. When I read your initial comment of "I personally stopped levelling because of the normal xp ratio", this sounds like a reference to original (x1) levelling speed.

Honestly, I don't think this contributed to the pop decline much because; 1) a lot of new folks hadn't even experienced the tent buff let alone the extra 30% from warmode and 2) I don't think many people wanted to power through the levelling experience because they enjoy the organic low level wPvP and BGs.

[Filauro1989]

Well, I'm pretty sure 2x xp from mobs is substantially better than 30% from overall. During Vanilla levelling, the majority of quests require you to kill mobs.

Dude you are missing the point, tents are present in the pve server as well so, basically, u have 2x byrested xp and 30% overall by the glyph...

Fair enough. When I read your initial comment of "I personally stopped levelling because of the normal xp ratio", this sounds like a reference to original (x1) levelling speed.

Honestly, I don't think this contributed to the pop decline much because; 1) a lot of new folks hadn't even experienced the tent buff let alone the extra 30% from warmode and 2) I don't think many people wanted to power through the levelling experience because they enjoy the organic low level wPvP and BGs.

I guess your thoughts might be right but you have to consider the retention aspects of such a feature. It could be very interesting to let people choose. That would not limit the ones that want to have an old style experience, including low level wPvP and BGs, and would be compelling for people that just want to restart a fresh 60 char experience with phases etc. This is just a reflection and i might be wrong ofc

I just wanted to share my personal experience, as and old player, still fascinated but a bit bored by the levelling experience, i would just get the lv 60 and do BGs and wPvP.