Alternative Tier Sets & Midpatch Itemization Changes

[Bittermens]

Melee hunter set??

We might consider new sets later down the road (emphasis on might) for melee hunter, tank shaman and possibly poison rogue down the line if they get enough tools to seperate them for other specializations but for now this will be the lineup.

Adding wrath seal of vengeance for raid DPS would be nice

[Vaikaris]

Great change, but unless you ban t2.5 and t3 from pvp, you're basically giving the pvp server a 1 year lifespan, until people are running around with t3. T2.5 and t3 as is, for classes that can make use of them on their pvp speccs, are brutal and absurdly powerful, what you're doing is giving specific pvp speccs access to gear tuned for level 70 endgame that is also usable for pvp.

To put it in simple terms, a t3 arms warrior with might of menethil means anyone else may as well not even play.

A full t3 shadow priest?

A full t3 elemental shaman? Basically every spell is a one-shot unless you're flasked and enchanted with stamina?

Full t3 paladin??

Just look at the current state of pvp on the twow realm, plenty of warlocks go play with full t3 and it's extremely stupid, you die to dots even if you completely outplay them and 1 coil+shadowbolt is instant and guaranteed death.

This is more of an opportunity than a problem, though - pvp is always fine up until AQ40 gear anyway and I think you realized that by adding the % crit reduction as a sort of buffer for lower gear. Why not go further with this change and save the pvp realm by fixing the absurdity of t2.5/t3 in pvp?

[Reploidrocsa]

Great change, but unless you ban t2.5 and t3 from pvp, you're basically giving the pvp server a 1 year lifespan, until people are running around with t3. T2.5 and t3 as is, for classes that can make use of them on their pvp speccs, are brutal and absurdly powerful, what you're doing is giving specific pvp speccs access to gear tuned for level 70 endgame that is also usable for pvp.

To put it in simple terms, a t3 arms warrior with might of menethil means anyone else may as well not even play.

A full t3 shadow priest?

A full t3 elemental shaman? Basically every spell is a one-shot unless you're flasked and enchanted with stamina?

Full t3 paladin??

Just look at the current state of pvp on the twow realm, plenty of warlocks go play with full t3 and it's extremely stupid, you die to dots even if you completely outplay them and 1 coil+shadowbolt is instant and guaranteed death.

This is more of an opportunity than a problem, though - pvp is always fine up until AQ40 gear anyway and I think you realized that by adding the % crit reduction as a sort of buffer for lower gear. Why not go further with this change and save the pvp realm by fixing the absurdity of t2.5/t3 in pvp?

It's very likely that devs prio PVE over PVP so we shouldn't expect huge pvp changes, especially at the cost of PVE fun. If PVP server dies they can always merge back to the main realm

[Nallkun]

First off, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. This was amazing to see/read.

As a Prot Paladin, I cant tell you how many times ive seen Warrior T1 drop and say
"Dangit, I wish my set had Defense or X stat"

But this got me thinking and id like to share some thoughts with the Devs.
As we know, Paladin tanks need some work. Im not asking for crazyness - just the ability to keep up with my warrior counterparts because tanking as a paladin is somewhere between "a delicate art" and "a flat out meme".
Many discussions with other prot pallys and raid leaders basically saying
"yeah, have fun, but dont expect to be a/the Main tank"

Enough setup/staging.. .here we go a few ideas for the Paladin PROT set.
TO BE CLEAR, im not asking for ALL of this.. im throwing some ideas out that wont "break" paladins/tanks or make pallys "more" hated.. we JUST want 1 or 2 of these to help us stay relevant!

- Add "Equip: 1 damage of Holy dmg" on melee for at least 2 pieces. (THIS WOULD BE HUGE FOR US.. Pretty please!!) ONE damage wouldnt have a huge effect on Threat, BUT it will give us a chance to PROC Wisdom which will help us sustain our mana on a fight. Currently We are STUCK using "Fiery Plate Gaunts" for the exact same feature which makes us lose a ton of dmg/stats/mitigation amount of stats . Also Doesnt work in Molten core OR BWL for the most part. Even the "Crimson spellblade" has the effect, but FIRE doesnt work in 2 of the big raids..

- Set bonus: gain 3-5% of healing received as mana.
(Mana problems are huge for a paladin, this wouldnt break the game but increase our viability as mana is just plain EMPTY after every fight - which brings me to the next idea)
This was an affect in Burning Crusade that REALLY helped paladins keep mana during raids/fights.

- Set Bonus: Reduce the cost of Concreation/Holy Strike by either a FLAT amount (100 mana?) or X Percent.
This would also help Tremendously without breaking the game

- Set Bonus: Increase Threat of Righteous Fury by X Percent
Self Explanatory - Not game breaking just help us stay relevant

Thanks for at least hearing me out!

[Tendies]

Rogue especially has some dead set bonuses such as the increased max energy on Tier 1 which we will touch on. The items being good doesn't mean the set bonuses should suffer for it.

The whole purpose of T1 max energy bonus is to be able to open with cheap shot, backstab and then gouge which you couldn't do otherwise except if you have a backstab crit with T3 4 piece bonus. T1 bonus is actually super spiky and more reliable in some matchups and still used by some.

I know you probably don't care or know much about PvP, but the OG devs from 2004 thought about these things back then. I am honestly concerned about the direction of turtle development as a whole. There some arrogance going around in the team of "duh, the 2004 devs made so many mistakes, letme just change this".

[Foggerblast]

Wait uh only 2.5 is getting an alternative for holy paladin? Do the devs think hpal uses tier 2 for healing?

Edit: seems like the other sets are getting specializations its just worded a little oddly

[Xudo]

Great change, but unless you ban t2.5 and t3 from pvp, you're basically giving the pvp server a 1 year lifespan, until people are running around with t3. T2.5 and t3 as is

This is more of an opportunity than a problem, though - pvp is always fine up until AQ40 gear anyway and I think you realized that by adding the % crit reduction as a sort of buffer for lower gear. Why not go further with this change and save the pvp realm by fixing the absurdity of t2.5/t3 in pvp?

I don't think that ppl will be fond of any significant t3 nerf.
So just closing naxx and aq40 on pvp realm might work good enough.

[Shambakriger]

I do hope this change won’t encourage all classes/specs to go 8/8 on all tier sets though. I’m probably in the minority, but as a feral main I’ve always quite enjoyed the hybrid gearing process.
I’d prefer a system of smaller sets like the AQ20, ZG and various crafted ones, utilising both the same slots as T1-3 but also off-slots like the AQ20 set (finger, back, weap)
Preferably with big, gameplay-altering set bonuses, locked behind 2/3 and 4/5. Locking BiS set bonuses behind 8/8 feels a bit boring to me, as it stops the player from mixing and matching their gear how they want.
So my hopes for the new tier sets is for the 8/8 bonus to be extremely flavourful, but underperforming compared to the mix-and-match gearing of most classes atm.
An example could be an 8/8 set bonus for ferals that massively buffed a bleeds/dot playstyle, but still fell short of bis cat dps gear. So the player gets to choose whether they want to go for 8/8 or maybe mix-and-match with a 3/8 from another tier set.

Hope it makes sense:3
No matter how you end up designing it I’ll look forward to trying it out! 1.17 was absolutely amazing and has me so hyped for the future of twow<3

[Krotux]

The warlock Tier 2 set bonus is already destruction friendly. I would replace the 8/8 with something that isn't reduction of threat of destruction spells.

Put that as the 8/8 of the new set and give the legacy set corruption damage, a major pet damage buff, or something like that.

Maybe something like: "Your pet does 50% more damage."

Also, warlock pets (including infernal, doomguard, and felguard) could really benefit from the avoidance damage reduction that hunter pets got.

[Homelesscard]

Warlocks are already deep down bottom dps when in dungeon/t1 gear but other classes are getting a buff ?
A mage in full t1 will have 30% more dps than a lock in full t1, but apparently mage t1 was too weak ?
Changing set bonuses for hunters when locks have a bonus to pet resists and drain life ?

Am I missing something ?

You are missing the part where t1 and t2 are outclassed by plenty of blues and non-tier epics. T2 helm is outside the top 10 options currently running t2 content..

[Quidoba]

I hope the color of the smite priest 2.5 is gold and black, or gold and dark brown/grey.

https://static.icy-veins.com/images/cla ... priest.jpg
except replace armor plates with gold hue, and replace red underlayer with black, dark grey, or dark brown

Inspired by the elegant tunic coloration:
https://www.wowhead.com/item=10218/elegant-tunic

[Jimyape]

Updated the main post with a few more details.

Thank you so much! Please make Shaman viable, as we need more tanks and more variance makes it easier for players to pickup a tank spec! Also it makes Turtle standout even more and better! Shamans already got the talents and work great, so a set for endgame content is just fair!

If Shaman tanks dont get taunt by talents, it might be a great idea to add this to a 2-piece set which is good and then mandatory although it might be a problem for gearing variance, but I would definetly take that as a Tank. Doesnt even need to be a Tier set, maybe a non-tier 2-set only which has tank stats on it and makes frostshock a taunt. I think we could work with that. And ideally add the 2% mana regen on blocks to the new shield talent and I think shaman would be in a great spot.

Or maybe work on Stoneclaw totem and make it a shorter cooldown and transfer the threat to the shaman instead of having an own threat table which disappears after the totem dies.

It could also make sense to make Bloodlust baseline for all shamans and add Shamanistic Rage for Enhancement, so they dont go oom and have a def cd which makes tanking more viable. And making bloodlust baseline and giving Restos somthing more useful then Mana tide might prevent them from speccing Enhancement for Bloodlust.

EDIT: Maybe it makes sense to rework the Earth's Grasp talent in Elemental to give the Shaman a shield when putting down Stoneclaw totem, as the 50% more life dont cut it and it is still almost oneshot by Elite mobs in Dungeons.

[Charanko]

Hunter beastmastery set??

[Calli]

Melee Hunter and Rogue Tank could potentially be alternative sets for those two classes.

Please, stop this melee hunter nonsense, please. Don't ruin other people playstyle by asking for it, instead of making the ranged hunter better, because that's why people play hunter to be ranged. Thank you.

Please stop your nonsense egoing, if you have 2 specs to play ranged hunter and one of the strongest ranged already, stop crying. And let other people also have fun with the class when wanting to play melee...

I need a melee spec for priest. I would like to play a battle cleric. Priests have two healing specs anyway, remove one of them and make it melee.

[Batey9]

You guys are gonna make a lot of people mad buffing hunter and rogue set bonuses, they're some of the best designed sets in the game purely because itemising for those classes is so simple rofl

Rogue especially has some dead set bonuses such as the increased max energy on Tier 1 which we will touch on. The items being good doesn't mean the set bonuses should suffer for it.

Does this mean you are also going to do something about paladin T1 and T2 Legacy? They really aren't good for much of anything and the set bonuses are also not very good. Especially T1.

Also, please use a different token system for the new T2.5 and T3 sets. There is already enough competition on those tokens. Opening them up to more specs when each token already has multiple classes fighting for them is just going to make those sets take forever for anybody to get. Or add another token slot to bosses and double up the token drops. Not doing so would be a monumentally bad decision.

[Ladiev]

The following specializations will get new sets:

• Mage: Arcane, Fire/Frost

• Priest: Shadow (Tier 1, 2 and 3), Healing (Tier 2.5 Only), Smite (Tier 2.5 Only)

• Warrior: Arms/Fury

• Warlock: Destruction

• Druid: Feral Combat (Cat/Bear), Balance, Restoration (Tier 2.5 Only)

• Shaman: Enhancement, Elemental

• Paladin: Retribution, Protection, Holy (Tier 2.5 Only). As a disclaimer, only the Holy tier set is for Tier 2.5, rest of the specializations will get an armor set for all tier sets.

[/list]

Can you possibly specify what specific tier sets become what? For mage specifically, since both Tier 1 and 2 have Arcane-sounding names.

But great choice with the alternative playstyle tier sets!

[Xudo]

Also, please use a different token system for the new T2.5 and T3 sets. There is already enough competition on those tokens. Opening them up to more specs when each token already has multiple classes fighting for them is just going to make those sets take forever for anybody to get. Or add another token slot to bosses and double up the token drops. Not doing so would be a monumentally bad decision.

How about usual MS > OS?
Alternative for tokens is like it is done in t1 raids. I mean bosses could drop useless pieces of tiers for not popular classes. While demand for more popular classes will only be higher. At least now tokens are always in demand.

[Elisleris]

Does this mean you are also going to do something about paladin T1 and T2 Legacy? They really aren't good for much of anything and the set bonuses are also not very good. Especially T1.

Also, please use a different token system for the new T2.5 and T3 sets. There is already enough competition on those tokens. Opening them up to more specs when each token already has multiple classes fighting for them is just going to make those sets take forever for anybody to get. Or add another token slot to bosses and double up the token drops. Not doing so would be a monumentally bad decision.

Nothing will changed in boss drop. Boss still drop the same. But you will be able to buy new set items via old set items as currency.

[Vladis]

So Paladin and Druid get the same new tier sets ? Non-healing specs get all tiers while healing specs only 2.5 ? Am I reading it correctly ?

[Vladis]

• We are also planning on buffing set bonuses on the Legacy Rogue and Hunter tier sets due to them not requiring any new sets as to not leave them out.

Melee Hunter and Rogue Tank could potentially be alternative sets for those two classes.

Please, stop this melee hunter nonsense, please. Don't ruin other people playstyle by asking for it, instead of making the ranged hunter better, because that's why people play hunter to be ranged. Thank you.

I really dont see how an alternate set you are not gonna use, gonna ruin your playstyle. You will not use it.

[Teeteetee]

„We might possibly consider other alternative tier sets such as Poison Rogue, Melee Hunter and Tank Shaman after Class Changes 2 are complete and these specializations are more fleshed out.“
What does „Class Changes 2“ mean? This sounds like a standing name for planned changes regarding class balance? Is there an ETA on these changes? Maybe it’s a stupid question but I’m new here and I hope someone can help with my question :D

[Vladis]

„We might possibly consider other alternative tier sets such as Poison Rogue, Melee Hunter and Tank Shaman after Class Changes 2 are complete and these specializations are more fleshed out.“
What does „Class Changes 2“ mean? This sounds like a standing name for planned changes regarding class balance? Is there an ETA on these changes? Maybe it’s a stupid question but I’m new here and I hope someone can help with my question :D

If you check the discord you will see that some time couple of weeks ago, they stated that after 1.17 there will be a new round of class balance tweaks. It should be a part of 1.17 patche cycle. There should already be some people testing if I am not mistaken.

[Teeteetee]

Perfect - I will check out the Discord! thx for the quick reply :)

[Rymermerys]

Hunter beastmastery set??

Hi Devs,

Can you consider this for an alternative set for Hunters, a dedicated Beast Mastery set.

[Charanko]

Hunter beastmastery set??

Hi Devs,

Can you consider this for an alternative set for Hunters, a dedicated Beast Mastery set.

with 8 set bonus alowing you to use 2 pets at once ... hahaha ;) jk... maybe

[Alfonso]

Turtle WoW == Care Bear WoW

TBC had better raids too. Maybe start to copy that?

Stop adding to the players power and start buffing bossfights:
more armor
bigger and more effects
enrage timers

[Calli]

Yeah, make them smack harder. Also let the Scourge to attack Azeroth again and wreak havoc. No more the inns and villages will be safe!

[Dddddwrd]

I have a question I want to ask, does the boss only drop the new version of the set after the redesign, or is it still dropping the old one, but can it be used as tokens to exchange for new ones? I want to ask this question, if the old set is out of print, when I collect 7 pieces, I will no longer be able to trigger the 8 pieces effect, can you reply to me

[Jombo]

I don't understand the "put your legacy set in the bank if you want to use more than one set". Makes little sense. Please explain clearly what you mean.

If the gear is equipped when the change is made it will be reverted to a token

Your pieces will stay as they are and will not turn into tokens but if you have more than one of them with the intention of turning one set in for an alternative set its to prevent the set you plan on keeping/using from losing its enchantments as they will be lost when turned in for the alternative tier piece, hope that explains it.

No, I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Just leave our gear alone and make a quest to change it if people want to do so. Weird messages such as "put your items in your bank " are just... Weird.

[Trismegistos]

Melee hunter set??

We might consider new sets later down the road (emphasis on might) for melee hunter, tank shaman and possibly poison rogue down the line if they get enough tools to seperate them for other specializations but for now this will be the lineup.

Is anything considered for rogue tanks, or is it dead for good?

[Vaikaris]

Great change, but unless you ban t2.5 and t3 from pvp, you're basically giving the pvp server a 1 year lifespan, until people are running around with t3. T2.5 and t3 as is

This is more of an opportunity than a problem, though - pvp is always fine up until AQ40 gear anyway and I think you realized that by adding the % crit reduction as a sort of buffer for lower gear. Why not go further with this change and save the pvp realm by fixing the absurdity of t2.5/t3 in pvp?

I don't think that ppl will be fond of any significant t3 nerf.
So just closing naxx and aq40 on pvp realm might work good enough.

People aren't fond of a t3 nerf if they have t3.

If there's nobody with t3, the only people who would hate a t3 nerf in pvp is people who intended to get t3 so they can one-shot non-t3 people with no effort.

That doesn't feel like much of an issue. it's like nerfing reckoning - yeh, I hated it as a paladin in vanilla, that I couldn't one-shot people, but I don't think nerfing reckoning was a bad idea.

[Xudo]

Great change, but unless you ban t2.5 and t3 from pvp, you're basically giving the pvp server a 1 year lifespan, until people are running around with t3. T2.5 and t3 as is

This is more of an opportunity than a problem, though - pvp is always fine up until AQ40 gear anyway and I think you realized that by adding the % crit reduction as a sort of buffer for lower gear. Why not go further with this change and save the pvp realm by fixing the absurdity of t2.5/t3 in pvp?

I don't think that ppl will be fond of any significant t3 nerf.
So just closing naxx and aq40 on pvp realm might work good enough.

People aren't fond of a t3 nerf if they have t3.

If there's nobody with t3, the only people who would hate a t3 nerf in pvp is people who intended to get t3 so they can one-shot non-t3 people with no effort.

That doesn't feel like much of an issue. it's like nerfing reckoning - yeh, I hated it as a paladin in vanilla, that I couldn't one-shot people, but I don't think nerfing reckoning was a bad idea.

I believe that turtle devs will make all changes for all realms simultaneously. So they can't nerf t3 for pvp and keep it for pve.
They potentially can make additional alternative t3 tiers, alternative (easier) naxx and stuff. But I don't see point in doing it for pvp server only. Raiding is not its main feature anyway. So keeping them closed is good option.

[Calli]

You cannot expect everybody to wear the same grade gear on a battleground, like it wasn't the case IRL too. Those t3 raiders put long hours and effort to get those items. Everybody is given the chance to go into a guild, raid and get their items. Alternative and easier naxx? No thank you, that is WotLK...

[Sladyer]

I don't understand the "put your legacy set in the bank if you want to use more than one set". Makes little sense. Please explain clearly what you mean.

If the gear is equipped when the change is made it will be reverted to a token

Your pieces will stay as they are and will not turn into tokens but if you have more than one of them with the intention of turning one set in for an alternative set its to prevent the set you plan on keeping/using from losing its enchantments as they will be lost when turned in for the alternative tier piece, hope that explains it.

still complicated to understand
what about add some exchange quest (like t3/t2.5 but reward all the alternative set and choose one of them) or exchange vendor npc (like tbc) , let token can convert to gear, and gear can convert to token , upon convert gear will lost enchantment , ofc you can make it cost some mats or gold, the enchantment keep or loss decided by player

[Tert1]

Is there a rough ETA as to when these new gears will be introduced? Weeks? Months? Half a year? Etc.