Turtle WoW

Shamma wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:56 am

Brolaf wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:31 pm

I feel like a lot of this would be resolved by just adding dual spec similar to WOTLK. That would give players the confidence that they could, at a minimum, enjoy questing in their DPS spec but step up to a tank role as needed to complete dungeons.

It IS already in the game. It is called Goblin Brainwashing device.

Right, but it is behind a paywall. Opening it up to the entire community would actually make it a viable solution.

Brolaf wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:37 pm

You can buy it for 350 gold from the Gurubashi Arena Blood Ring NPC. It's available to all players.

Brolaf wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:37 pm

Shamma wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:56 am

Brolaf wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:31 pm

I feel like a lot of this would be resolved by just adding dual spec similar to WOTLK. That would give players the confidence that they could, at a minimum, enjoy questing in their DPS spec but step up to a tank role as needed to complete dungeons.

It IS already in the game. It is called Goblin Brainwashing device.

Right, but it is behind a paywall. Opening it up to the entire community would actually make it a viable solution.

Nope, either slow and steady mode, or you pay 300 (i think?) to that arena guy in STV.
Ask people in world chat they will tell u. Its not P2W.

EDIT: 350g.

Glavorli wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:40 pm

Nope, either slow and steady mode, or you pay 300 (i think?) to that arena guy in STV.
Ask people in world chat they will tell u. Its not P2W.

EDIT: 350g.

this is a moot point, you get 350g or lv 60 for slow and steady donation points.... this doesnt help the first time levelers

Again I refer to my post on fixing this:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2879

Brolaf wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:37 pm

Shamma wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:56 am

Brolaf wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:31 pm

I feel like a lot of this would be resolved by just adding dual spec similar to WOTLK. That would give players the confidence that they could, at a minimum, enjoy questing in their DPS spec but step up to a tank role as needed to complete dungeons.

It IS already in the game. It is called Goblin Brainwashing device.

Right, but it is behind a paywall. Opening it up to the entire community would actually make it a viable solution.

So similar to WotLK. It was 1000g when it came to be!

Ugoboom wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 02, 2022 8:53 pm

Again I refer to my post on fixing this:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2879

Well since we derailed this topic quite a bit, I think this debate should take place in its own thread.

However, as many people said, you dont need to be tank-specced to be able to tank a dungeon.
You are writing in your first post, that :

as most tank and healer players are in dps specs to make their leveling life easier, but do make dungeons a struggle.

... and thats not true. I can be a full fury level 30 Warrior, or 40, or 50, and all I need to put on is a shield
and some spells. And Im perfectly fine tanking a level appropriate dungeon. If you cant do that, youre doing something wrong and you need to fix it.

So therefore, I dont think we need dual specc earlier.
I dont even think that we have a tank problem to begin with.

We have a laziness and a misinformation problem.
People are too lazy to use /who. And people think they have to be tank-specced to be a tank.

And that creates the illusion that we have a tank problem. We dont. I certainly dont. /who masterrace.

Balake wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 02, 2022 11:56 am

Xudo wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:20 am

If I use something like Feint, it will reduce threat competition between me and a tank.
I'm talking about skill I use to reduce threat competition between tank and everyone else.

Something like Tricks of the Trade? I think it would be neat to compensate against fury warriors who do much more dps. Rogues group utility is lacking.

From Wowhead

Tricks of the Trade
15 Energy 20 yd range
Instant 30 sec cooldown
Requires Rogue
Requires level 75
The current party or raid member becomes the target of your Tricks of the Trade. The threat caused by your next damaging attack and all actions taken for 6 sec afterwards will be transferred to the target. In addition, all damage caused by the target is increased by 15% during this time.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. There is also

Misdirection
Talent
100 yd range
Instant 30 sec cooldown
Requires Hunter
Misdirects all threat you cause to the targeted party or raid member, beginning with your next attack within 30 sec and lasting for 8 sec.

Adding those spells help tanking problem a bit. At least, good DPS could compensate lack of skill for a tank.
They could help a bit to non-warrior tanks having mana issues in endgame.
In the same time, they don't require overhaul of whole threat system.
Those spells best to be accessible at low level. There you get most of new tanks which could use some help.
This is a bit of Wotlk, but I still think it was a good idea of Wotlk. It improves group cooperation in a good way.

I don't think we need dual-spec for low level. At least not to solve tanking problem.

Xudo wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:01 pm

I don't think we need dual-spec for low level. At least not to solve tanking problem.

Fully agree here.

Xudo wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:01 pm

Adding those spells help tanking problem a bit. At least, good DPS could compensate lack of skill for a tank.
They could help a bit to non-warrior tanks having mana issues in endgame.
In the same time, they don't require overhaul of whole threat system.
Those spells best to be accessible at low level. There you get most of new tanks which could use some help.
This is a bit of Wotlk, but I still think it was a good idea of Wotlk. It improves group cooperation in a good way.

I agree that this would make tanking even easier. Adding things like MD and tricks of the trade would definietely make the game easier or "more accessible to new players". However, this would move the game a bit closer to retail or WotLK, or as I like to call them "worse versions of WoW".

As long as 5-man content can be tanked by fury warriors and healed by enhancers, and even without these being overleveled or overgeared, the game is fine and should not be changed.

Also, a skilled dps can already "compensate for an unskilled or weak tank". The options include target focussing, positioning, interrupts, CC, stunning, debuffing instead of only damaging, running towards the tank instead of away from them in case of aggro, the occasional dps stop, slowing mobs, finishing off runners, reasonable fearing, smart use of totems, various aggro reducing abilities, occasional off-tanking or even (gasp!) tossing a heal when needed. I'm probably forgetting quite a few here. The tools we need are already there, but people just don't use them often enough.

The problem lies not only with potential tanks and healers shying away from the responsibility that comes with these roles, it's also dps who think their only job is dishing out many numbers in a short time and feel entitled to running a whole dungeon on autopilot. Also, inexperienced players should be willing to learn from veterans (don't use guides, just keep an eye out for friendly people who seem to know their stuff), but experienced players should also be patient and supportive towards newcomers and help them improve their game.

I fully agree that dungeon runs can be hard in vanilla, but they're doable if people are willing to communicate. And that's where the real fun begins .

Half the server population plays warrior (can be tank). Still, there's lack of tanks.
Is not about lack of classes, is the lack of people willing to do that role.
The best thing i can come with are solo dungeons with a team of bots so you learn the basics of your role. Iirc there was something similar in pandaria

server has good population. Just remember how did u find a tank or any for group in real vanila 12+ years ago (or 14) . Ask people, YELL in towns or appropriate lvl location. Somebody didnt elite quests in dungeon, pets (ret paladins, arms/fury warriors) easy can be as tank if 5+ lvl highest than mobs in instance. U also can kite. Yes its hard. But just remember how was in 1.8.2 . Now is easy mod, all exists in DB. if u cant play easy mod, u can read books

Ishilu wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 05, 2022 10:49 am

it's also dps who think their only job is dishing out many numbers in a short time and feel entitled to running a whole dungeon on autopilot...

Hey Ishilu,

I want to add a thought here: Imho Its also your "duty" as a Tank to make sure DPS is under controll.
In my groups, I make sure, in a friendly way, that my DPS always gives me enough time to get off
1x Swipe or 1x Thunderclap.

If you know how to talk to people, wich is a skill modern day people seem to lack a bit, you can keep that
behaviour under controll. The most effective ways seem to be A) humor and B) shame. You either make people
laugh, so that they like you and dont want to annoy/disappoint you. Or you make them feel silly/ashamed
to a degree for their behaviour. And since im not the funniest guy, I usually use the second method - God I
wish I would be funnier, the world would be mine and I would rule it with my iron dwarven fist. Ugh. Anyways...

Those 2 methods might even be the most effective and secure way to change a humans behaviour.

Other methods like Ignoring people, wich doesnt take much skill, seems to be completely ineffective.
Same goes for kindergarten-behaviour like calling people names etc. wich also doesnt take any skill.

But if you concider yourself anything close to a "grown up", then u need a certain amount
of competence or social skill if you truely want to change peoples behaviour (especially IRL...).
The more competent you are, the less problems you will have with people.
But if youre incompetent, then you will need a big ignore list....

My second character is going to be a Prot/Arms Warrior, wish me luck.

Breidr wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:20 pm

My second character is going to be a Prot/Arms Warrior, wish me luck.

While leveling? Don't do that to yourself. Arms is a perfectly serviceable tank up to 50+

Redmagejoe wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:12 am

Breidr wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:20 pm

My second character is going to be a Prot/Arms Warrior, wish me luck.

While leveling? Don't do that to yourself. Arms is a perfectly serviceable tank up to 50+

Yeah, my wording didn't convey that. Going to level as Arms for sure.

Why did this die all of a sudden? Was so much fun to argue about nothing here.

25

i hope rogue threat poison can be introduced at low lvls too. if think they might be able to pull of as reasonable lower level dungeon tanks until brd

Geojak wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:46 pm

i hope rogue threat poison can be introduced at low lvls too. if think they might be able to pull of as reasonable lower level dungeon tanks until brd

Dont get your hopes up too much. The reason rogue tank sort of works is high dodge chance from gear, but you dont get a decent mitigation in lvling greens and blues.

Shaman tanking already has questionable survivability while lvling. Rogue has it luch worse