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People simply dont understand, that classic wow was much more united game than wow its now, WoW PvE and WoW PvP are now just two diffrent games with completely separated progression, but is wasnt a thing in Vanilla and that was a good, I like both PvP and PvP and I like the idea of PVE affecting PVP. This is an essential part of Vanilla and i hope devs wouldnt listen to them.
It is too idealistic approach. Currently there is PvE progression and nothing more.Papire wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 12:59 pmPeople simply dont understand, that classic wow was much more united game than wow its now, WoW PvE and WoW PvP are now just two diffrent games with completely separated progression, but is wasnt a thing in Vanilla and that was a good, I like both PvP and PvP and I like the idea of PVE affecting PVP. This is an essential part of Vanilla and i hope devs wouldnt listen to them.
I think devs should just add some highly desirable pve things to be obtainable only trough the pvp, maybe for upcoming raids.
I didn't say that you don't need to spend a decent amount of time on pve to succeed in pvp, but in my opinion thats not bad. I would like some new, highly desirable things for pve to be available only in pvp. Perhaps something that gives a weapon skill, which is very useful for warriors and rogues, gives + to healing spells for healers, and so on. For example, we already have several pre-raid bis that can be obtained in pvp, but I would like to see more options, especially for upcoming raids.Xudo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 6:34 pmIt is too idealistic approach. Currently there is PvE progression and nothing more.Papire wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 12:59 pmPeople simply dont understand, that classic wow was much more united game than wow its now, WoW PvE and WoW PvP are now just two diffrent games with completely separated progression, but is wasnt a thing in Vanilla and that was a good, I like both PvP and PvP and I like the idea of PVE affecting PVP. This is an essential part of Vanilla and i hope devs wouldnt listen to them.
I think devs should just add some highly desirable pve things to be obtainable only trough the pvp, maybe for upcoming raids.
See viewtopic.php?t=13677
One guy asked "how to obtain good pvp weapon?" and best answer is "go farm naxx thrash".
PvE progression nullified PvP one when things like this happen.
Many people did naxx in retail classic and still there was a pvp scene, torta problem is a class imbalance, but changes are coming. Roll tel abim, when you doesnt roll there because of low population It's a self fulfilling prophecy and if you whine about dead pvp scene but don't log to the pvp server that's just sad.Eversongwoods wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 6:25 amAnyone that thinks vanilla was good because of gear disparity didnt play vanilla because that was a non issue, such a small percent of players even touched naxx. If pve is required to pvp then twow will never have any pvp scene, its that simple.
yea it was nice. lots of servers connected to play against for pvp. and it was a much much much bigger pool of people.Papire wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 3:19 pmMany people did naxx in retail classic and still there was a pvp sceneEversongwoods wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 6:25 amAnyone that thinks vanilla was good because of gear disparity didnt play vanilla because that was a non issue, such a small percent of players even touched naxx. If pve is required to pvp then twow will never have any pvp scene, its that simple.
And none of them did naxx of courseIbux wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 3:24 pmyea it was nice. lots of servers connected to play against for pvp. and it was a much much much bigger pool of people.Papire wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 3:19 pmMany people did naxx in retail classic and still there was a pvp sceneEversongwoods wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 6:25 amAnyone that thinks vanilla was good because of gear disparity didnt play vanilla because that was a non issue, such a small percent of players even touched naxx. If pve is required to pvp then twow will never have any pvp scene, its that simple.
Might be because Turtle is/was actually a Rp-PvE-Server and got more PvE-Focus on balancing. They only launched Tel'abim, because the PvP-Community asked for it.
No, RP server tag means RP is to be respected in the open world or you face punishment. PvE tag means world PvP is optional and PvP tag means world PvP is forced. All servers have had PvP since the release of battlegrounds.Sylveria wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 12:26 amMight be because Turtle is/was actually a Rp-PvE-Server and got more PvE-Focus on balancing. They only launched Tel'abim, because the PvP-Community asked for it.
I never invested myself in Tel'abim since i'm Not interested in PvP, so i can only assume that it must say Something about the PvP-Community when they ask for a Server and then leave it to die, while knowing that the balancing wasn't pvp-focused.
Tel'abim is not dead
This is almost always like that ppl write here like they think themselves experts and in reality they have no clue about the topic, same everydayNeltharion wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 12:38 pmTel'abim is not dead
We have dungeons, raids and BG pops at almost all hours
The hell are you talking about?![]()
Issue with WaR is that it's 100% raid focused. There's no such thing as solo PvP and even small groups can't do much with how the PvP is organized. The combat mechanics/controls/visuals/etc are also super clunky compared to WoW's and the class balance is focused entirely around mass PvP meaning that most 1v1 matches are decided before they even begin.Zulnam wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 3:57 pmI love wow vanilla, but lets call a spade a spade.
Wow has never been a pvp game. The only reason they added BGs to begin with was because they saw potential with all the people fighting in Hillsbrad.
And while I would love to see more pvp content for twow, i'm not holding my breath.
To anyone looking for an old school, tab targetting, MMORPG experience that is heavily focused on pvp (both small and large scale) i strongly recommend checking out Warhammer Online Return of Reckoning.
They're having an event soon for extra XP and renown (equivalent of honor) in the starter pvp zones (you can pvp from level 1 and you can level via pvp; no pve necessary until you hit max lvl for some pre-bis).
I still love twow but i accept it's pvp as it is: an afterthought.
Stupid and ignorant take. PvP has been a core part of wow since launch.Zulnam wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 3:57 pmI love wow vanilla, but lets call a spade a spade.
Wow has never been a pvp game. The only reason they added BGs to begin with was because they saw potential with all the people fighting in Hillsbrad.
And while I would love to see more pvp content for twow, i'm not holding my breath.
To anyone looking for an old school, tab targetting, MMORPG experience that is heavily focused on pvp (both small and large scale) i strongly recommend checking out Warhammer Online Return of Reckoning.
They're having an event soon for extra XP and renown (equivalent of honor) in the starter pvp zones (you can pvp from level 1 and you can level via pvp; no pve necessary until you hit max lvl for some pre-bis).
I still love twow but i accept it's pvp as it is: an afterthought.
Agree; most here dont even play there i guess or log weird hours when people at work; at peak ab/wsg pops all the time because both sides have lots of rankers atm… bloodring and av on the other hand… non existant; maybe make av 10v10Neltharion wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 12:38 pmTel'abim is not dead
We have dungeons, raids and BG pops at almost all hours
The hell are you talking about?![]()
This is actually a historic moment in the lifetime of the server. Its the first time the numbers increase :)
No, they need a proper PvP dev on the team and it's long overdue.Venaven wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 4:15 pmI mean all the naysayers can say what they will but the reality is twofold:
1. this thread has way more views than pretty much any other at the moment. there is clearly a niche of pvpers on this server and there always has been, that niche also used to be even larger/more popular. therefore, various changes can meaningfully affect the population's participation levels.
2. the devs have made plenty of pvp related changes so far, so to pretend as though that element of the game should be kept irrelevant is just a weird, almost militant bias. this notion that pvp and pve must be treated as antithetical rivals to each other is kind of ironic coming from a server which is very close, even culturally, in many ways, to the essence of original vanilla back in the day. back then, most people were of the mentality that the point of getting geared/clearing content was so that you could then pvp, as your endgame, recreationally. this was 'the content'.
Now, times change and I understand that. But the fact remains that PvP isn't inherently a negative thing in an opt-in, opt-out system. As others have said, the devs just need to make PvP gearing a bit more viable. Additionally, I've heard so many people complain about paladins--if that class were nerfed maybe it would make a difference. I say this as someone who plays a paladin. I wouldn't mind my class being nerfed if it meant more people would be interested in playing PvP.
I agree with that, but I don't see how it conflicts with what I've said. I did think of another thing, which is that Blood Ring was popular and then they changed it to 3v3 and now it's dead, so maybe a revert to 2v2 would work.Jkldsngkljsng wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 4:53 pmNo, they need a proper PvP dev on the team and it's long overdue.Venaven wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 4:15 pmI mean all the naysayers can say what they will but the reality is twofold:
1. this thread has way more views than pretty much any other at the moment. there is clearly a niche of pvpers on this server and there always has been, that niche also used to be even larger/more popular. therefore, various changes can meaningfully affect the population's participation levels.
2. the devs have made plenty of pvp related changes so far, so to pretend as though that element of the game should be kept irrelevant is just a weird, almost militant bias. this notion that pvp and pve must be treated as antithetical rivals to each other is kind of ironic coming from a server which is very close, even culturally, in many ways, to the essence of original vanilla back in the day. back then, most people were of the mentality that the point of getting geared/clearing content was so that you could then pvp, as your endgame, recreationally. this was 'the content'.
Now, times change and I understand that. But the fact remains that PvP isn't inherently a negative thing in an opt-in, opt-out system. As others have said, the devs just need to make PvP gearing a bit more viable. Additionally, I've heard so many people complain about paladins--if that class were nerfed maybe it would make a difference. I say this as someone who plays a paladin. I wouldn't mind my class being nerfed if it meant more people would be interested in playing PvP.
It doesn't. I just disagree with you about PvP gearing and I don't have the energy to write it out.Venaven wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 6:05 pmI agree with that, but I don't see how it conflicts with what I've said. I did think of another thing, which is that Blood Ring was popular and then they changed it to 3v3 and now it's dead, so maybe a revert to 2v2 would work.Jkldsngkljsng wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 4:53 pmNo, they need a proper PvP dev on the team and it's long overdue.Venaven wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 4:15 pmI mean all the naysayers can say what they will but the reality is twofold:
1. this thread has way more views than pretty much any other at the moment. there is clearly a niche of pvpers on this server and there always has been, that niche also used to be even larger/more popular. therefore, various changes can meaningfully affect the population's participation levels.
2. the devs have made plenty of pvp related changes so far, so to pretend as though that element of the game should be kept irrelevant is just a weird, almost militant bias. this notion that pvp and pve must be treated as antithetical rivals to each other is kind of ironic coming from a server which is very close, even culturally, in many ways, to the essence of original vanilla back in the day. back then, most people were of the mentality that the point of getting geared/clearing content was so that you could then pvp, as your endgame, recreationally. this was 'the content'.
Now, times change and I understand that. But the fact remains that PvP isn't inherently a negative thing in an opt-in, opt-out system. As others have said, the devs just need to make PvP gearing a bit more viable. Additionally, I've heard so many people complain about paladins--if that class were nerfed maybe it would make a difference. I say this as someone who plays a paladin. I wouldn't mind my class being nerfed if it meant more people would be interested in playing PvP.
Well fair enough, but I do think the blood ring change could maybe function as a decent compromise here. The blood ring exalted gear is honestly pretty good, but it's unobtainable at the moment because the mode is dead and noone queues it. It takes a long time to get the reputation to exalted, too. They really should consider reverting it to 2v2. I mean, the metrics speak for themselves. It was a decently popular mode and now there's maybe 1 queue pop in an entire day.Jkldsngkljsng wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 6:26 pmIt doesn't. I just disagree with you about PvP gearing and I don't have the energy to write it out.Venaven wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 6:05 pmI agree with that, but I don't see how it conflicts with what I've said. I did think of another thing, which is that Blood Ring was popular and then they changed it to 3v3 and now it's dead, so maybe a revert to 2v2 would work.Jkldsngkljsng wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 4:53 pm
No, they need a proper PvP dev on the team and it's long overdue.
I very much agree with you that PvP and PvE are not antithetical to each other. That every change in Vanilla is not a PvP vs PvE battle were players must fight for their change. You're maybe the first person I have seen express this other than myself.
Rated arenas and/or BG's would be interesting, with proper rewards which require rating (that match naxxramas power-wise). It makes no sense to queue bgs as a full time job to get items inferior to what you can get in AQ40 and Naxx, its simply not worth the grind in late vanilla. Im sure if it was only MC and BWL phase, people would queue a lot more