Level down

[Shamma]

On turtle it is very easy to turn off XP gain. Highly appreciated option I used a lot on retail when it was first introduced back in Wrath I believe.

How about going one step further and allowing leveling down?

This can be of course done in different ways - just please not the dynamic scaling thing. I mean real conscious player controlled leveling down. Main options I see (ofc we can think of different/more ways to accomplish it):

1. Can be temporary (e.g. a lvl 60 chooses to play as lvl 30 for a day and gets leveled down to 30, losing access to his lvl 60 gear until he chooses to revert back to 60).
2. Can be permanent - e.g. you enjoy the leveling from 40-60, but do not like 1-40. Choose to get leveled down to 40 and that is it. You can level back up like other ppl who are lvl 40.

Either way, you can get basic equipment from the AH and vendors for any lvl in game and a lvl 60 can definitely afford said equipment. Or maybe gain access to the equipment you used to have at that lvl from the transmog system?

Main benefit of these options for me is being able to do the new quests Turtle adds at their expected level without having to start a new character. And once you make it back to 60, your gear waits for you in the bank.

Basically a player controlled option to remove levels from your character (not dynamically scaled - which invalidates your progress in case you want to be a 60 in a lvl 30-40 zone for farming).

What happens to completed quests? This is a valid question for discussion. I do not know how ppl feel about "uncompleting" quests as it allows selecting a different reward. However, for the leveling down to work, some sort of uncompleting quests might be necessary.

[Ugoboom]

ilvl sync in retail wow and ff14 are fantastic additions to those games, especially for playing with buddies or just wanting to chill with whichever group needs X role in a dungeon.

but implementing it? its a monumental task with vanilla gear and trinket design. at best yeah youd just lose the ability to equip your current gear and have to buy a bunch of greens and stuff, which cant be good for your bag slots lol

I know de-leveling is possible on vmangos but there might be bugs and damage done to your character sheet as is. this would take a lot of development but yeah if made perfect then this would be a boon to the game especially for leveling dungeons... but yeah i understand that the turtle staff might just rather you level a new alt 1-60 to see more new stuff.

[Shamma]

Well ilvl sync... Cmon... That heresy has nothing to do with vanilla. Get ilvl out of any conversation about old WoW. Almost as bad as dynamic lvl scaling when u enter low lvl zones - aka So you are lvl 60 and Stitches still claps u and you cannot go farming to arathi for iron and goldthorn.

Level down - that is it. Buy new gear. Add demand to those mid lvl greens, which go mostly vendored, cos nobody would buy then on AH.

This will most definitely NOT take A LOT of development.

[Imonobor]

This will most definitely NOT take A LOT of development.

Saying that unless you are a developer and have done similar projects is pretty hypocritical. If it's that easy, why don't you code it and send it to twow's dev team, ready for implementation then?

The truth is that what you're asking for would take way too much time and effort of development and debugging, and I don't think a lot of people would actually use it, when that same time and effort can be used to develop things like new content, which will be enjoyed by many more people. The idea's pretty cool, but not worth it.

[Shamma]

Not hypocritical. I am a developer. Been one for almost 20 years. Cannot code it myself, because TWOW's code in not open source. If it were I would be helping them.

[Shamma]

As for this change. It is a suggestion. Not an important one by any means. Just an idea I threw out there. I totally agree new content is more exciting than this. I can guarantee you - the ppl developing new content are not the same making a change like this. Completely different skillsets needed.

[Shamma]

@Imonobor - funny that you talk about too much time and effort for little use. Just look at the suggestions you have upvoted. Let me remind you:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4277&p=25522#p25522
Who would use that? More or less ppl? Will it take more or less time to develop?
Or this:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4296&p=25654#p25654
Unique buffs? You think this is something done in a day?

Both ideas are cool. Eranukus and water buffs. These are NOT easy to implement.

I can keep going. You are thinking with your emotions. You are dreaming. I do not blame you. Dreaming is fun. Dreamers make good games happen.
But dreamers do not go talking about time and effort in comparison to use.

So are you a dreamer or are you somebody who only supports what he dreams of and pulls excuses out of his ass when you do not personally like something for why it should not happen?

[Shamma]

And thinking about the source code of turtle. If it were open source @Imonobor - you are right. Even I would not waste my time to implement level down. I would first prefer to tackle bugs to existing content. The time and effort "wasted" on level down does not cut from take away anything from developing new content. As said - different ppl do these - it does however take away from tackling a number of bugs that exist here.

This is however a suggestions forum. Not the bug tracker.

[Shamma]

I do not know much about RP. However, would level down not help RP-PVE a whole lot? RP journeys can be challenging and dangerous at any place at any level.

[Shamma]

As a whole I see sand box features and support for said features (such as HC and HC at 60) as much more valuable bang for the buck than any quest (one and done), class or even worse spec change (only a fraction of the ppl can experience it).

[Imonobor]

Uhm okay, sorry if I touched a nerve there, I did not mean to make this personal.
As I said, the idea is nice, and I'm not actively against it, I just don't think a lot of people will find it very useful and worthwhile. I'm not a developer though, so what would I know, right?

About the Eranikus quest chain, I actually suggested that the OP design the quest chain themselves using Twow's custom quest tool. This way it won't take too much of the dev's time to implement it. Besides, I'd argue a new quest chain classifies as "new content", so quite a few people would do it I reckon.

Peace.

[Shamma]

Oh engineers like me are not the people to ask what other players will find fun/useful. There are designers for that. I am the guy who builds your idea, your game, I am not capable of inventing a fun game.

I think in my engineer's brain this is a good feature that is easy to implement and I like it. That is it. It is here to see whether other ppl like it and I maybe thought of something good to have.

I do not understand yet which suggestions are considered by the dev team and which not. This process seems completely internal. And they are in their right to pick and choose what they want and like. Their success so far solidifies this right. Is it objective, subjective, democracy, voting, bang for the buck, etc.? Do you know?

Having an active Suggestions forum implies that it matters. On the other hand the suggestions are so wildly different in all possible regards that tracking them seems in my eyes to be a nightmare.

I can like other ppls ideas, or dislike them. So many ideas are vague here. Are the good ones taken to heart and actually designed to work?

I have personally proposed 2 things - this and "uncompleting quests". Both require little to none design work and only marginal engineering work. Both I can see the implementation for in my head.

I ask for ppl with more imagination than mine to think whether these are worth having. You do not find use for level down. Fair enough. What I took offense to was you claiming that the time is better used to create new content. It really is not though, because it is done by different ppl. Like if you asked me to create new content. I will after sitting there dumbfounded for hours and you and I and mostly nobody will like it in the end.

Enough ranting.

Peace it is.

[Gladeshadow]

I’m in favor of level down for another reason. That reason is, I love playing hardcore. I’ve gotten to 60 and want to do BGs. However, probably like at least some others, 60 BGs are a contest of who has the best astronomical raid gear. I find 59 twinks more fun because, even if the gear is good, it isn’t a contest of who has raid logged the most. Gear is nowhere close to as powecreeped as it is at 60.
This is just a difference of 1 level, but it is the level with the biggest differences between the haves and have nots and quality of player mattering more than quantity of player time spent in raids. It would be a nice addition (along with making 50-59 BGs separate from 60, which the server population makes feasible at this point).

[Xudo]

One downside are quests.
Imagine quest that require lvl 30 and provide good item as a reward.
You complete this quest and go level down. Quest rewards are usually don't have level requirements.
This way you bring potentially very powerful item at a bracket without this item.

Point of Gladwshadow is good. Though I really don't know why I should "use" this feature as a regular player. But I think there is a lot of ways to "misuse" this feature and forget about zillion of little things to roll back.

[Philandros]

Level Scaling is a double edge sword.

Some people prefer it, as it adds multiple avenues to play the game or instantly play with friends and keeps things challenging until you build your end gear.

On the other hand it destroys the power fantasy some people play for. Some people want to destroy lower level content or take it easy with green quests. If everything leveled with you HC and turtle mode would be so much harder, and sometimes people want to play games the de-stress.

Being able to go down in levels, might end up being a coding nightmare for items you have.

[Shamma]

Level Scaling is a double edge sword.

Some people prefer it, as it adds multiple avenues to play the game or instantly play with friends and keeps things challenging until you build your end gear.

On the other hand it destroys the power fantasy some people play for. Some people want to destroy lower level content or take it easy with green quests. If everything leveled with you HC and turtle mode would be so much harder, and sometimes people want to play games the de-stress.

Being able to go down in levels, might end up being a coding nightmare for items you have.

I am NOT advocating for level scaling or item scaling. I am completely against it. Read up. A lot written on the subject already.

This should be a conscious deliberate action (like turning off XP and applying a glyph).

[Thol]

I think this would be cool, more content would be relevant in end game. But I'm afraid this would be a nightmare to implement, I don't think this is feasible.

[Ugoboom]

Not hypocritical. I am a developer. Been one for almost 20 years. Cannot code it myself, because TWOW's code in not open source. If it were I would be helping them.

Turtle is a fork of https://github.com/vmangos/core which you can, without code modification, delevel yourself with a gm command .level number

However, last i remember doing this, it let me keep the higher level gear equipped until i unequipped, which is not really acceptible for a production feature. I didnt check talents and if it let me keep all my lv 60 talents. Who knows what other bugs are present... this is up to you to debug, fix up and make operational for your local vmangos dev env. Then you can present your feature on your fork as a completed product for the turtle devs to merge into their fork. Good luck, i do wish you well, this is not an easy task to make something polished and non-exploitable.

[Ulukay]

Due to my forgetfulness, I didn't turn off gaining experience and I just wanted to lower my level by 1. Now all my plans to go to the same instance thousands of times, for the sake of a meager chance to get the coveted shoulder pads, dropped with a chance of 0.001, are gone
I will have to put up with it and drown myself in vodka.

[Allwynd01]

I always wanted WoW to have the Rebirth system from Villagers and Heroes where you can return to level 1 and start questing all over again - all your quests are reset from a state of "completed" to "available", meaning you can quest with the same character all over again.

In V&H it also means you retain some perks on your character, meaning each time you do a Rebirth, you gain something so it serves a purpose.

[Qorvulth]

i wouldnt mind if it just set my stat to of that level appropriate but kept all the gears but turn off effect of item if you arent of that level. Would be good when first enter a dungeon it ask you if you want to scale down. Alot of times its beacuse of exp gain for other is a much needed. Though i would believe all spell should be allowed execpt for ranks ... like if something you have is rank 12 and the level only grant rank 5 then your only allowed to use that but if your in a thing where there only rank one of it , then keep that spell allowed. simply put there alot of tank healer or dps that need a certain rank 1 to be useful.

[Ulukay]

We can no longer feel low-level. The evil turtle, which came from the depths of the past, took freedom from us. But the low-level is the spiritual state of many players, and they want to interpret themselves as low-level. But now they are forced to go to high level dungeons, equating themselves to other high-level players.
Down with level discrimination!