SAVE TEL'ABIM (please read)

[Neltharion]

So, at the moment Tel'Abim, although it has a lively community, it lacks numbers: there are multiple reasons and me, Dragonslayer, having played there since release have become quite emotionally attached to it.

I will now list some suggestions that, in my opinion, are going to make Tel'Abim great again:

1. We need the CLASS CHANGES to release SOONER: I've seen tons of people leaving due to PvP being unbalanced. The main problems, let's say it, are paladins. The faction discrepancy is evident and many people are leaving because of it. Shamans simply don't have the absurd damage of a Paladin and their support tools.

Druids. Their survivability is just embarrassing and they can easily survive an attack of 5 players at thr same time. Frenzied Regeneration simply doesn't work in PvP. Maybe tune it down while in BGs.

Warriors charge seems bugged, if you slow or immobilize them while they cast charge it often bugs and the Warrior want reach its target.

Shamans, especially enhancements, on the other hand need buffs, being simply inferior by its Alliance counterpart.

2. Make phases LONGER but add Tel'Abim features only: so AQ is coming out month but we have around 200 active players, how is it going to work? If we rush the phases, new players will never join an over saturated server in the long run. On the othetrhand, Tel'abim needs its unique features and those may regard PvP: an example would be making the WPvP towers Tel'Abim only.

These are just a handful of the things that could solve Tel'abim problems, like another one would be PvP flagging everyone in cities.

Let Devs know about this and let's share some opinions down there.

[Bloodline1x9]

10 days ago I created a topic in which I proposed to talk about changes that would help Tel'Abim survive and grow online. But people came who started to argue, said that EVERYTHING OK with Tel'Abim. Now I will see how the PvP Realm will die. Nobody cares about him. Even to those who playing there.
viewtopic.php?t=13443

Druids. Their survivability is just embarrassing and they can easily survive an attack of 5 players at thr same time. Frenzied Regeneration simply doesn't work in PvP. Maybe tune it down while in BGs.

Oh, sure! And I also wrote that Druids are IMBALANCE. In the topic
viewtopic.php?t=6665
But now the druids will come and start crying here. Apparently one of the admins is a druid.

Unfortunately, such cool changes and innovations of the vanilla world will be lost due to a complete lack of understanding of pvp balance. And if I were you, I would not try to draw attention to the change of classes specifically on Tel'Abim. No one needs it there anymore. The realm is barely breathing. It's better to think about how to just increase Tel'Abim online. Class changes, if it's happen, will be on both realms.

[Neltharion]

10 days ago I created a topic in which I proposed to talk about changes that would help Tel'Abim survive and grow online. But people came who started to argue, said that EVERYTHING OK with Tel'Abim. Now I will see how the PvP Realm will die. Nobody cares about him. Even to those who playing there.
viewtopic.php?t=13443

Druids. Their survivability is just embarrassing and they can easily survive an attack of 5 players at thr same time. Frenzied Regeneration simply doesn't work in PvP. Maybe tune it down while in BGs.

Oh, sure! And I also wrote that Druids are IMBALANCE. In the topic
viewtopic.php?t=6665
But now the druids will come and start crying here. Apparently one of the admins is a druid.

Unfortunately, such cool changes and innovations of the vanilla world will be lost due to a complete lack of understanding of pvp balance. And if I were you, I would not try to draw attention to the change of classes specifically on Tel'Abim. No one needs it there anymore. The realm is barely breathing. It's better to think about how to just increase Tel'Abim online. Class changes, if it's happen, will be on both realms.

Absolutely, class changes should regard both Nordanaar and Tel'Abim but the PvP realm is the one with the highest potential right now
Nordanaar is cool but, apart from T4, it's "done"

[Twinking]

Druids. Their survivability is just embarrassing and they can easily survive an attack of 5 players at thr same time. Frenzied Regeneration simply doesn't work in PvP. Maybe tune it down while in BGs.

On my druid I dueled with all classes and that's what I say! You will never kill a demon warlock and spriest... Hunters and mages will be about 50/50 depending on your cooldowns... Rogues and warriors cause problems, but if you work hard you can win... Paladins are serious opponents. explosive damage ignores the bear's armor and most likely you will die... Shamans are quite easy to beat...

[Ataika]

tel'abim online is perfectly fine

[Deumus]

Druids. Their survivability is just embarrassing and they can easily survive an attack of 5 players at thr same time. Frenzied Regeneration simply doesn't work in PvP. Maybe tune it down while in BGs.

"While in bgs" is important detail bc heavy nerf can kill bears pve career. But i can't imagine such a think as spells will work diferent in bgs.

[Neltharion]

Druids. Their survivability is just embarrassing and they can easily survive an attack of 5 players at thr same time. Frenzied Regeneration simply doesn't work in PvP. Maybe tune it down while in BGs.

"While in bgs" is important detail bc heavy nerf can kill bears pve career. But i can't imagine such a think as spells will work diferent in bgs.

Or you can just make Frenzied Regeneration not available in BGs, like you can't SS or Reincarnate in BR

[Drubarrymooer]

The 5 on 1 claim is exaggerated per usual. I'm full bis and I've never taken on 5 players and survived or even came close. Can I last 15-30s, sure. But much like my wife says, that's nothing to brag about. Lol. Just a few days ago I was hit like 4 or 5 times by 2 paladins and I was dead in less than 3 gcds.

[Alfonso]

I don't think that the balance is the reason why the server population declined.

- About balance:
At least while I was ranking, I saw a faction-oriented class choice: Alliance: Hunters. Horde: Warlocks and Priests.

The Reasons are mostly the will of the forsaken and Paladins mostly.
A Hunter simply gets infinite mana while a Pala in Raid does put judgment on the Boss.

A simple Way to fix the balance without giving both factions everything (retarded solution) could be be to buff enhancers. Not sure, that can't be wrong so?!

- About saving the server:
But to save Tel Abim it needs something different. We have all seen the start of the server with 4k players online and the decline started with SoD being announced. Tel Abim became a SoD waiting room. SoD is open world pvp oriented with little to no late game while twow is 90% focused on leveling and raiding (sure, we got new BGs but that's not even close to what most players want).
Capital sieges, faction zone control,...

At least they could add Eye of the Storm BG and maybe some Events like spawning big Monsters to aid your faction. A PvP reward that is not BG related maybe...

The accounts still exist, and players maybe log in again if they see twow trying to save the PvP Server.

[Ragetto]

Hey mate!

I'm responding to a topic on this issue for the third time, but... we never get tired of it, right? So, I'm using my unique racial ability: wall of text!

I've been on this server for 3 months, so I'm not as 'emotionally' tied to it, but I quite like the overall vibe and the people here (except for 2-3 jerks).

Even though I'm historically less attached to the server, I've still leveled up and geared a character solo with zero PvE, so I'd really like the server to take off a bit. And even though I'm only speaking for myself, I think I represent a certain type of player who can be attracted to a WoW Classic PvP server and become active and loyal over time if it's worth it.

Here are the two objectives:

1/ Gaining new players
2/ Retaining existing players

Both aspects share a common issue: the low player count strengthens the community's core group, but doesn't entice new players or keep many around (social proof etc). It's a vicious cycle I won't get back into here to focus on other aspects, but we know it exists.

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1/ Gaining New Players
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In this regard, the points you mentioned are not relevant. Nobody comes to a PvP server because the 'phases' are short/long, or because the balance is 'good' (since it's very context-dependent). It might impact retention though (I'll get to that later).

From the outside, here are the keywords that attract new PvP players:

• Revisited/improved vanilla PvP system (end of the horrible rank grinding system - replaced by honor points/arena purchases)

• Rated arenas (that's why I came in the first place... I read it wrong)

• Rated BGs

• New BGs/Arenas + random conditions (e.g., I love when there's fog and you can't see anything, it really changes the strategy... and hunters have a huge advantage hehe)

• Faction leader loot (when you raid them)

• PvP equipment that keeps up with PvE gear progression

• New 100% PvP zone (to spend time, farm, and fight, etc., there's a topic dedicated to this)

• And many other cool stuff I can't think of right now.

Basically, the standard stuff for a PvP player, with the GUARANTEE of not having to PvE to stay competitive in terms of gear (see below) and having PvP activities to enjoy in the long run.


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2/ Retaining Existing Players
----------------------------------------

Here we might agree more: the two points you mentioned can impact some players' desire to stay (including me).

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Game Balancing
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I think we're envisioning the same situation (since we sometimes find ourselves in BGs): that moment in Arathi Basin, "go go BS guys" to take that strategic point, and then you see 2 druids and 3 paladins coming (with 2-3 DPS having a blast)... and you know it's lost because they're so unkillable you'll never take the point. Those you would have killed had time to respawn, and meanwhile, you've lost 1-2 other points. And boom, game over because the points are protected and the Horde is a bit discouraged (after facing this situation so often). It's created a kind of losing culture on the Horde side, which I really don't like (e.g., the day the Horde went into "afk/slacking - we defend 2 points and take 3k honor" mode... I spent my games doing die&retry trying to take points - depressing)

In fact, I'm not sure what to do because I don't find the paladin so strong solo (as a hunter), but when there are several, it becomes absurd. The bubble is a fundamental problem (especially in AB), but if we nerf it... I'm afraid paladins may become weak. This insane bubble is part of who they are.

Druids, same thing, their "world boss" aspect making them unkillable for some classes is sometimes depressing/amusing, but most of the time, I'm more annoyed by my teammates who keep hitting the druid under Frenzied Regen (and/or prevent me from controlling him), than by the druid himself... A druid is somehow easier to control than a paladin for a hunter.

But as mentioned earlier, on the Horde side, a weariness has set in, and you can feel that people don't even want to do BGs anymore, it's crazy but understandable. Alterac totally favors the Alliance, Arathi "paladin/druid omg... plz god save us", Warsong Gulch depends on the quantity/quality of druids on both sides (but since I've been here, it's often 1-2 druids vs. 0)...

The shaman is a good class, it's already strong (especially elem), but it doesn't have that little "game-changer" aspect that the paladin has with his bubble against which nothing can be done (and perhaps this is the problem - maybe the bubble should be dispellable by such or such class... Priest? Shaman?).

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The duration of phases:
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Personally, not doing PvE, I don't care about the duration of the PvE phases, but something worries me:

All my gear comes from PvP or solo farming (to craft). I have decent gear (thanks to PvP reputations, etc.) but there are still 2 green pieces of equipment that I don't know how to replace. Currently, I'm one of the rare level 60 hunters on the server not to have Rhok'delar (the epic bow) because I don't do MC/Onyxia. I limited the damage with a crafted rifle (a million times cooler, but slightly less powerful). So for now, it's ok, I can still compete.

When AQ/Naxx are released, players like me (who only do PvP... on a PvP server - crazy, right?) will no longer be able to exist because their gear will be too far from what's found in PvE.

And at that point... I'll have no choice but to stop. And others will do the same, no doubt about it. It's a shame because these are players who just want to be active and have fun.

The fact that the phases are short or long, as a 100% PvP player I completely don't care as long as I can stay somewhat competitive against PvE gear at the time, if I'm an active player. On a PvP server, that should be the basis, right?

Anyway, I think if a private server wants to work, it needs to offer what was best in the expansions (because some of Blizzard's additions later were relevant) + some stuff you don't see elsewhere.

[Bigsmerf]

TBC honor system. PvPers can gear by doing PvP, there's no more insufferable brain cell demolishing rank 14 grind, and you don't have to be pitted against juiced naxx paladins because you chose to take the unviable (solo/PvP) gearing path.

[Elleshar]

From alliance perspective I would argue that elemental shamans are too strong, highest burst in the game that is capable of two shotting 7-8k hp target and at the same time having higher HpS than a regular healer. But lets see what class changes 2.0 brings.

Class balance aside I agree with the other pvp suggestions.

[Neltharion]

From alliance perspective I would argue that elemental shamans are too strong, highest burst in the game that is capable of two shotting 7-8k hp target and at the same time having higher HpS than a regular healer. But lets see what class changes 2.0 brings.

Class balance aside I agree with the other pvp suggestions.

None denies the burst is high but shamans are very easy to counter and kill
1 silence and they're dead
That's why I don't think elemental shamans need nerfs

[Mackylol]

10 days ago I created a topic in which I proposed to talk about changes that would help Tel'Abim survive and grow online. But people came who started to argue, said that EVERYTHING OK with Tel'Abim.

Not quite accurate, people came to say that you're not a clever person.

---

Just another PvP balance thread from a solo player, probably without engineering/consumables/gadgets, whos blissfully unaware vanilla WoW PvP balance is rock, paper, scissor.

As a rock, team up with paper and scissor to overcome any obstacle.

I would love to see more class changes, bugfixes, more content for both PvE and PvP to increase population.

[Frantsel]

10 days ago I created a topic in which I proposed to talk about changes that would help Tel'Abim survive and grow online. But people came who started to argue, said that EVERYTHING OK with Tel'Abim.

Not quite accurate, people came to say that you're not a clever person.

---

Just another PvP balance thread from a solo player, probably without engineering/consumables/gadgets, whos blissfully unaware vanilla WoW PvP balance is rock, paper, scissor.

As a rock, team up with paper and scissor to overcome any obstacle.

I would love to see more class changes, bugfixes, more content for both PvE and PvP to increase population.

The problem is that like you observered very well, WoW pvp was never meant to be balanced. Like u said it was meant to be rock, paper, scissors. The problem is that Twow devs have destroyed this balance.
If you look at the changes of druid and pala its obvious.

I play on Twow now for over a year and classes have NOT been tweaked since then.

To me it feels like Twow devs listened to all the crying hybrids that wanna do dmg too. But they didnt think about the consequences.

I repeat myself again: You cant eat the cake and have it too. If u want dps, you need to loose tankyness in some way or the other.
I am so tired of talking about it. Yesterday in aq40 a druid whitehit crit my priest for over 3k.
We dont need to talk about it anymore. There are SO many voices. So many examples.

Twow devs love Pala and druid. Its as simple as that.

[Mackylol]

10 days ago I created a topic in which I proposed to talk about changes that would help Tel'Abim survive and grow online. But people came who started to argue, said that EVERYTHING OK with Tel'Abim.

Not quite accurate, people came to say that you're not a clever person.

---

Just another PvP balance thread from a solo player, probably without engineering/consumables/gadgets, whos blissfully unaware vanilla WoW PvP balance is rock, paper, scissor.

As a rock, team up with paper and scissor to overcome any obstacle.

I would love to see more class changes, bugfixes, more content for both PvE and PvP to increase population.

The problem is that like you observered very well, WoW pvp was never meant to be balanced. Like u said it was meant to be rock, paper, scissors. The problem is that Twow devs have destroyed this balance.
If you look at the changes of druid and pala its obvious.

I play on Twow now for over a year and classes have NOT been tweaked since then.

To me it feels like Twow devs listened to all the crying hybrids that wanna do dmg too. But they didnt think about the consequences.

I repeat myself again: You cant eat the cake and have it too. If u want dps, you need to loose tankyness in some way or the other.
I am so tired of talking about it. Yesterday in aq40 a druid whitehit crit my priest for over 3k.
We dont need to talk about it anymore. There are SO many voices. So many examples.

Twow devs love Pala and druid. Its as simple as that.

Inner Fire is a great spell, while Im giving tips.. use Dispel Magic to disable any of the burst. A druid can shapeshift 10 times when using mostly feral-specific gear.

I was just in AB with 2 druids on a priest and he survived for like 30 seconds.. theres way too many horrible players on twow is what Im saying. Especially very outspoken ones.

EDIT: Just tried some hits on a priest with Inner Fire up in less than full T0 and my white hits are hitting for 250 in bear and 120 as cat.. 450 with Maul, 370 with Savage Bite, 450 Shred, 250 Claw but Im mostly in Blood Ring / BWL gear.. cant wait for the AQ40 stuff.. 3k sounds like alot!

[Nitaya]

10 days ago I created a topic in which I proposed to talk about changes that would help Tel'Abim survive and grow online. But people came who started to argue, said that EVERYTHING OK with Tel'Abim.

Not quite accurate, people came to say that you're not a clever person.

---

Just another PvP balance thread from a solo player, probably without engineering/consumables/gadgets, whos blissfully unaware vanilla WoW PvP balance is rock, paper, scissor.

As a rock, team up with paper and scissor to overcome any obstacle.

I would love to see more class changes, bugfixes, more content for both PvE and PvP to increase population.

The problem is that like you observered very well, WoW pvp was never meant to be balanced. Like u said it was meant to be rock, paper, scissors. The problem is that Twow devs have destroyed this balance.
If you look at the changes of druid and pala its obvious.

I play on Twow now for over a year and classes have NOT been tweaked since then.

To me it feels like Twow devs listened to all the crying hybrids that wanna do dmg too. But they didnt think about the consequences.

I repeat myself again: You cant eat the cake and have it too. If u want dps, you need to loose tankyness in some way or the other.
I am so tired of talking about it. Yesterday in aq40 a druid whitehit crit my priest for over 3k.
We dont need to talk about it anymore. There are SO many voices. So many examples.

Twow devs love Pala and druid. Its as simple as that.

Vanilla is not rock, paper, scissor. It is simply an unbalanced mess.
Vanilla (and turtle) was unbalanced, TBC was unbalanced, maybe WOTLK was a bit balanced and by balanced I mean most of the classes had some wombo combo that could 1 shot another player.

Expecting that game will be balanced in 1v1 situation is just foolish, especially that you have to consider gear + spec as well.

Also, y'all are acting like there is a 20 man developer group behind turtle wow, who has nothing else to do in life just improving the game by listening to the players.

reminds me of this:

[Elleshar]

reminds me of this:

The cycle of life.

[Ataika]

Playing lock for 2 years and have never seen 3k druid hits even under berserk
New kind of bs

[Twinking]

Playing lock for 2 years and have never seen 3k druid hits even under berserk
New kind of bs

I assume he means the "Ravage" ability, which can only be used while stealthed.
With the blood ring gear and some raid gear, my druid does 1500 crit on a level 60 dummy. (this is only with your own buffs)

I don't really believe in 3k either.

[Toaomb]

Hey, giving my two cents as an avid PvP'er who has specifically PvP'd in all expansions from vanilla to present including TWoW on the PvE server and TWoW on the PvP server.

For reference, I play Druid, Hunter, Warrior, Warlock and Rogue on the PvP server currently but have played Priest extensively on the PvE server in PvP as well.

Throughout the rest of the expansions before playing TWoW I had played every class in every spec possible.

The way it works in a team based game like this is that you do not attack an opponent unless you have a 3-1 advantage, generally, to guarantee a win in the fight. You create pressure somewhere on the map to draw attention, then switcharoo run with your healer and a DPS to the real fight where you can steamroll the target.

What I witness in PvP, day in and day out, are players who just want to GET IN THERE and SMACK SMACK SMACK but they die and then cry about it. They didn't roll with a healer, didn't roll with a DPS, and just expected to somehow- because they're Geared to the Teeth- just win the fight or at least kill 1 person which doesn't happen because it was 1v3.

You see the same thing in all other competitive multiplayer games with a time-to-kill above 10 seconds. You have to play by numbers and strategy more than reaction time in a game like this.

Paladins can be beaten by hunters and warlocks, Druids can be beaten by almost anyone who remembers not to attack them during Frenzied Regen or also by Hunters.

I would know, I play Druid. I would also know about Paladins, I kill Paladins.

The issue is a lot of the players here play Rogue and Warrior, as do I, thinking those classes would be the unstoppable powerhouses they were in Vanilla, but the balance has shifted. Now they have real competition with the armor shred of Paladin and the survivability of Druid. Now they actually have to play as a team with a healer or Lock/Hunter so that they don't get nuked.

As for increasing the popularity of the server? I've been saying it for a long time: What brought a lot of players to the PvE server was McDoubles coverage of the server. We need new content and popular streamers/youtubers to make content about the game. Make it seem like the fun community it is, broadcast it, show the world how cool it is to raid Stormwind. Add memes to it, make it funny. People want to be a part of something, and there are a lot of other servers trying to do what TWoW does better.

I love the community, love PvP, good luck and I look forward to fighting you!

[Bloodline1x9]

10 days ago I created a topic in which I proposed to talk about changes that would help Tel'Abim survive and grow online. But people came who started to argue, said that EVERYTHING OK with Tel'Abim.

Not quite accurate, people came to say that you're not a clever person.

---

Just another PvP balance thread from a solo player, probably without engineering/consumables/gadgets, whos blissfully unaware vanilla WoW PvP balance is rock, paper, scissor.

As a rock, team up with paper and scissor to overcome any obstacle.

I would love to see more class changes, bugfixes, more content for both PvE and PvP to increase population.

I'm too lazy to argue with a druid explaining for the 10th time why a tank is a better weapon than a bazooka. You're trying to tell me how to destroy a tank with a bazooka. But this is not a balance. I mean druid is not about rock, scissors, paper. Druid cleanly kills more then half the classes without giving them any chance. If you can't kill a warrior, rogue, mage or priest then you're just a bad druid. And the other 4 classes - they have a chance, but they are not an counter for the druid. As a result, we get that the druid can kill any class, half of which he kills 100%, and half 50x50. Every druid thinks it's so hard for him! He wants to kill 100% of everyone. He wants to fight with 10,000 health like a rock and kill in 5 seconds like scissors, and also dispell all control like paper.

[Darktifa]

As for increasing the popularity of the server? I've been saying it for a long time: What brought a lot of players to the PvE server was McDoubles coverage of the server. We need new content and popular streamers/youtubers to make content about the game. Make it seem like the fun community it is, broadcast it, show the world how cool it is to raid Stormwind. Add memes to it, make it funny. People want to be a part of something, and there are a lot of other servers trying to do what TWoW does better.

Finally, active players of TeL'Abim, stating their opinion

Until now we only read the "important" opinion of those,
who haven't even played a single min in pvp realm or just reached 12 lvl at November and left...

[Mackylol]

10 days ago I created a topic in which I proposed to talk about changes that would help Tel'Abim survive and grow online. But people came who started to argue, said that EVERYTHING OK with Tel'Abim.

Not quite accurate, people came to say that you're not a clever person.

---

Just another PvP balance thread from a solo player, probably without engineering/consumables/gadgets, whos blissfully unaware vanilla WoW PvP balance is rock, paper, scissor.

As a rock, team up with paper and scissor to overcome any obstacle.

I would love to see more class changes, bugfixes, more content for both PvE and PvP to increase population.

I'm too lazy to argue with a druid explaining for the 10th time why a tank is a better weapon than a bazooka. You're trying to tell me how to destroy a tank with a bazooka. But this is not a balance. I mean druid is not about rock, scissors, paper. Druid cleanly kills more then half the classes without giving them any chance. If you can't kill a warrior, rogue, mage or priest then you're just a bad druid. And the other 4 classes - they have a chance, but they are not an counter for the druid. As a result, we get that the druid can kill any class, half of which he kills 100%, and half 50x50. Every druid thinks it's so hard for him! He wants to kill 100% of everyone. He wants to fight with 10,000 health like a rock and kill in 5 seconds like scissors, and also dispell all control like paper.

Zzz, you are indeed lazy and thats why you are here whining about a class that you keep losing against -- I can guarantee 100% that you are in the zugzug-category of players that just run in and smack, smack, smack. Anyways, Im gonna go use my 20 second fear immunity because you are a literal dog with 2 legs.