Regarding raid schedules

[Akos1896]

Hey!

One thing I noticed regarding most guilds is a stuffed weekly raid schedule. For gear-optimization it is important but it also leads to players being burnt-out. I'm not against players spamming raids, it is a personal preference. I am against people feeling the need to spam as much as possible for optimized progression. It leads to tension and people leaving the game.
Was thinking about the topic and I do believe that most of the raid schedule problems can be traced back to design problems.
As we progress with a guild, there are always raids in focus: the ones we progress and don't just farm. At the same time, some raids provide such items or other benefits that guilds with +20 ilvl still feel obligated to farm them.
For example MC with the legendaries, ZG with the overpowered enchants.
I've seen top Naxx speedrunner guilds putting MC to their schedule. Gold farm + legendaries. In practice it is the equivalent of lvl 30 team running to Deadmines but still, it is felt as a necessity.
My proposal is that at any given time of raid progression, no more than 3 raids should be relevant for someone. This would mean a maintainable 2 raid nights / week schedule which allows having a personal life.

The things I think about, raid by raid:
ZG -> It is an introductory raid, its purpose is to gear up the players who just finished spamming Scholo and Stratholme. I think that exalted enchants could be given from honored and each ZG enchants should be watered down a bit. Also, would make ZG consumables directly purchasable via AH (like the spirit of Zanza). Some people would make real money out of it but it would stop late-leveling guilds considering ZG spams just to make sure everyone is exalted. Also, madness trinkets should be more easily obtainable.

AQ20 -> I think it's fine. It has some good reputation rewards but not obligatory rewards. I can go exalted and have a cool 1h caster weapon but I can also go to BWL and have a comparable or even better one.

Ony -> Perfect. Exists for the T2 helmet fishing and has some nice items but it doesn't force you to come back at a much later stage.

MC -> Several problems. Putting the legendaries here means that Naxx speedrun guilds add it to their schedule just for that farm. No challenge anymore, no magic and excitement or feeling of accomplishement after a clear. Guys run thorugh it 1x every week like it's Deadmines and every run is a failure if it doesn't have a legendary. MC forcing players from much later stage of the progression to participate in it is bad design. Also, it is lucrative. Would add some + money making to other raids so people wouldn't consider MC at ilvl 80 just for the gold. For the legendaries, I don't know. Making the bindings boe is a prime gold sink but many people would hate it. Moving them to AQ40 would feel like a lore fail. Nort sure.

BWL -> The trinkets. In my eye, this is the mid-high level raid. Not endgame but barely midgame. Shouldn't have BIS items, though. Don't get me wrong, I have the gem and I'm still writing what I'm writing. Trinkets should be somewhat nerfed and some AQ40 and Naxx ones should be slightly buffed. BWL is a very cool raid but I don't think that Naxx speedrun guilds should still feel to be forced to farm it.

ES -> Lootwise, it's okay (mechanics-wise, it's not). In my eyes it's the I'm preparing for AQ40 or I'm progressing AQ40 raid. Doesn't overstay its welcome.

AQ40, Naxx -> They are fine. They should be a bit more lucrative and bis trinkets should come from here. This is the PVE endgame. Guilds could still have fun with any raid they want but for any progression or item upgrade they shouldn't feel forced to visit anything else than these 2.

Kara -> I left it last because it's in a very weird spot. It is the quintessential introcutory raid. 10 man, easy mechanics. Still, it has better loots than ZG or AQ20, sometimes even MC. It doesn't overstay it's welcome, geared guilds won't farm it, but the fact that the easiest raid rewards you very handsomely feels weird. And the answer of a longer raid ID is not really a solution. I'd raise the difficulty (not mob healthbar, no more ES PTSD) and put it between AQ20 and MC regarding raid difficulty.

_________________________________________

Tldr:
* I think guilds should never feel forced to do more than 2-3 raids at a given progression state for optimal progression. Anything else can be done but only as fun, not as a necessity.
* Some raids force people to farm them even if they are absolutely overgeared for the content.
* More raids should be as lucrative as MC to allow guilds getting the money at any given progression state.

How it would look like in practice?
As a guild which just started raiding, focus would be ZG and AQ20. (2)
After some decent gears, Kara should kick out ZG and Ony could join (3)
MC arrives and kicks out AQ20. Kara stays, members finish to get T2 items at Ony (3)
MC starts getting really easy, BWL and ES normal mode joins (3)
BWL progression continues, ES is still on normal mode (2)
BWL done confidently, ES starts to switch to HM, AQ40 starting (3)
BWL almost on farm, ES HM, AQ40 (3)
ES HM, AQ40, Naxx (3)
AQ40, Naxx (2)
T3,5 raid kicking out AQ40 and alongside with Naxx (2)

(Some PUG here and there to get some missing items. Of course, people can have as many raids as they want, it's just... The number of useful raids never goes above 3 this way, leaving space to real life.)

[Xudo]

Very well written analysis. Opening more raids will make harder to visit every raid in week schedule.

[Nitaya]

Very well written analysis. Opening more raids will make harder to visit every raid in week schedule.

But flawed.
For me, it seems that he wants to change the game because of a player problem.

it is not the game's fault that players/raiders want to maximize their loot by clearing every raid during a week.
Yes, your schedule will be full of raids, if every week, you want to clear everything and not miss anything.

Yes sometimes a BiS item exists in a previous raid tier but does that it is ESSENTIAL to clear the next tier?
No
You can move on to get another one from the next tier that is not BiS but still decent.

Do you want to raid max 1 or 2 times?
Just join the progress raid and the one where you have the best chance to get better gear.
In different week join to ZG for enchants.
Don't overwhelm yourself, take it causally, you don't have to wear BiS gear and it's fine if you are not in full tier whatever after 3-4 weeks.

OP also forgot to mention alts. Many of these previous raids, like MC, are mainly run by adults, so they can gear them as well.

[Akos1896]

Hmm...
You made some valid points, I want to elaborate.

1. This article is about the optimized progression of your main (in an imagined landscape with raids changed as above). Alts complicate things, I just shrugged them off to the fully optional category, like the MC runs at T3.
2. Regarding optimized gear, it is extremely important for the playerbase. If we take into account how much people tend to grind just to have +5 spell damage on an item (random example) then the same people will grind endlessly for legendaries from lower-level raids.
3. I'm not writing it for myself, my desire was not to complain. I'm quite geared, having the important reputations as exalted. It is kinda a passion for me, to theorycraft, to optimize things in a theoretical way then to write an article about the topic. I used to design board games and when I play, my main focuses are the mechanics that surround me and the thought about how to optimize them, whether it's abour raid schedules, shaman talent trees or allowing warlocks to deal sustained fire damage. I don't write because I complain. I love this mental challenge and the creation of articles.

+1
A friend of mine has asked me what about fresh recruits? Let's say you are a BWL progression guild and a new mage joins, half blue, half green.
It's up to the guild itself, but there are many ways. This server has a bunch of pugs until MC. If BWL is done confidently, the guy could also be brought along, to be an 'unneeded T2 item dumpster'. Helps gearing up a lot.
I don't think new recruits are really a problem, even now, if your guild is advanced. People rarely do two progression raids at a time. Just bring him along to the other one(s) and let him become a loot dumpster until he's geared enough to participate on hiw own right, while asking him to PUG some lower raids too, to remove those greens at least.

[Burunduk]

If you want to farm only one actual raid, go to retal.

[Nitaya]

2. Regarding optimized gear, it is extremely important for the playerbase. If we take into account how much people tend to grind just to have +5 spell damage on an item (random example) then the same people will grind endlessly for legendaries from lower-level raids.

That what i was referring as player issue and not content / game.
Does +20 spell dmg or +1% hit is major difference?
No, you can deal with the actual raid content without it. It almost makes zero difference.

But somehow players feel they must collect that one and only item because it is BiS.