Will of the Forsaken change

[Krotux]

This is a bit too OP in pvp let's be real. A lot of people ONLY choose UD just because of the free trinket + immunity.

Will of the forsaken should be changed into one of these two options:

1. Break out of fears/charm/etc as usual but NO immunity after.

2. 6 second immunity but cannot break out of existing cc.

Either of these two would be way more balanced than a free trinket that also grants you immunity to a bunch of different cc. It would still be among the best racials even with this nerf tbh.

[Gantulga]

Are you really complaining about WotF when both warlocks and priests are absolute top tier bulldozers in PvP?
If you want a broken racial, look no further than Hardiness.

[Krotux]

Are you really complaining about WotF when both warlocks and priests are absolute top tier bulldozers in PvP?
If you want a broken racial, look no further than Hardiness.

If you want to nerf priests and warlocks, go for it. Make fear break very easily or something. But don't use that as an excuse to keep WotF being OP. Class balance shouldn't rely on a racial that only one faction has access to. By your logic, alliance has no chance versus priests and warlocks.

Hardiness is another op racial, yes. Could be nerfed a bit sure, but that's a different discussion

[Koronisz]

Remove all racials

[Akos1896]

Will is an OP racial but the problem is that there are many broken racials in the game. An overhaul is an option but people shouldn't cherrypick 1-2 of them.
Will mention class racials, too, they follow the same logic.

For PVP:
Gnomes getting out of any immobilizing effect. Ironically one of the best PVP warrior option is a gnome.
Dwarves hard-countering rogues with a racial.
As people already mentioned, hardiness.
Will, too.

For PVE:
Human and orc melee with the + weapon skill.
Blood fury. Arguably (?) for PVP, too.
Fear ward. It feels like there is only one correct option for priest.

There are surely others but these came to my mind. In this gang, will doesn't stand out, it is just one of the many OP abilities.

Of course there is one above all of these, the legendary troll regeneration which makes you feel like an invisible druid is spamming the best ever HoT on you all the time. Jokes aside, trash tier racial.

____________

Overhauling would be nice but it has it's own problems. Let's say you balance everything out just right and you don't create an even bigger monster. Race tiers for classes shouldn't drastically change because let's face it, many people are min-maxers here with thousands of hours in the game. Top tier picks can be nerfed but have to remain top tier picks.

For will I'm okay with changing it to a fear etc breakout-ability but only if it's addressed alongside the other oppressive abilities.

[Ataika]

Are you really complaining about WotF when both warlocks and priests are absolute top tier bulldozers in PvP?
If you want a broken racial, look no further than Hardiness.

y know these famous alliance warlock buldozers we see on daily basis
oh wait we dont

[Ataika]

Will is an OP racial but the problem is that there are many broken racials in the game. An overhaul is an option but people shouldn't cherrypick 1-2 of them.
Will mention class racials, too, they follow the same logic.

For PVP:
Gnomes getting out of any immobilizing effect. Ironically one of the best PVP warrior option is a gnome.
Dwarves hard-countering rogues with a racial.
As people already mentioned, hardiness.
Will, too.

For PVE:
Human and orc melee with the + weapon skill.
Blood fury. Arguably (?) for PVP, too.
Fear ward. It feels like there is only one correct option for priest.

There are surely others but these came to my mind. In this gang, will doesn't stand out, it is just one of the many OP abilities.

Of course there is one above all of these, the legendary troll regeneration which makes you feel like an invisible druid is spamming the best ever HoT on you all the time. Jokes aside, trash tier racial.

____________

Overhauling would be nice but it has it's own problems. Let's say you balance everything out just right and you don't create an even bigger monster. Race tiers for classes shouldn't drastically change because let's face it, many people are min-maxers here with thousands of hours in the game. Top tier picks can be nerfed but have to remain top tier picks.

For will I'm okay with changing it to a fear etc breakout-ability but only if it's addressed alongside the other oppressive abilities.

Gnome racial has a cast time and does not provide immunity, most snares can be reapplied immediately
Dwarf racial only good against rogues and undead priests


meanwhile wortf:
- works against priests
- works against warlocks (fear AND seduction)
- works against warrior fera
- works against magic dust
- works against mind control cap and priest mind control
- works agains hunters if deep surv

U must be special to compare this to any alliance racial

[Chudman123]

Stoneform gives immunity after breaking as well. Also gives more armor.

Gnomes slow break racial has a 60s CD whereas wotf is 5 min CD

People joke about troll but berserking is one if not the best racial in the game. Up to 30 percent cast and attack speed that doesn't trigger gcd is insanely good.

I agree orc has some op racials but blood fury does debuff you with anti healing for a long time.

Imo all racials should be buffed to be on par with orc.

[Krotux]

Either buff racials to be on the same level as orc/undead or nerf it.

Don't gaslight us by saying "well other racials are OP too, look at gnome/dwarf!" Lol not even close

[Valadorn]

Stoneform gives immunity after breaking as well. Also gives more armor.

Gnomes slow break racial has a 60s CD whereas wotf is 5 min CD

People joke about troll but berserking is one if not the best racial in the game. Up to 30 percent cast and attack speed that doesn't trigger gcd is insanely good.

I agree orc has some op racials but blood fury does debuff you with anti healing for a long time.

Imo all racials should be buffed to be on par with orc.

Will of the forsaken is 2 mins cooldown

Frostbolt has 2sec cast, hamstring is instant, poison from rogue gets applied instatnly, root from druid has no cooldown, ice shield has no cooldown

Oh, and Gnomish escape has a casting time, so by the time you finish casting it, you are rooted / slowed again and it gives no immunity, you can have multiple slow/root effects on you and it removes only one

[Ataika]

Gnomes slow break racial has a 60s CD whereas wotf is 5 min CD

the default " i have no clue but iam argueing" local guy

[Majestik51]

close this thread pls, nerf pala bubles first and then u can talk about other things

[Valadorn]

close this thread pls, nerf pala bubles first and then u can talk about other things

Done, now lets talk about other things :)

[Majestik51]

close this thread pls, nerf pala bubles first and then u can talk about other things

Done, now lets talk about other things :)

ok so now, u can reroll undead if u want to be an original pvp player, we all know undeads racials are op for pvp.

u cant help it, all races have their own racials that are more buffed than other in different aspects of the game.
thats called balance.

theres stuns roots and other ccs that undead cant get away of it, train urself and get better skills then, dont be crybaby.....

[Valadorn]

My undead hunter is almost 60 with a nice ammount of WSG and AB reputation :) and not gonna lie, I didnt expect to enjoy scorpid pet this much

[Krotux]

we can talk about class nerfs if needed but that has nothing to do with racials, specially now that there are more class/race combinations available it's good to reconsider if stuff is balanced

[Slashignore]

buhu we only have op paladins but undeads too stronk buhu

[Krotux]

buhu we only have op paladins but undeads too stronk buhu

paladins and undead racial have nothing to do with each other, this is pure whataboutism. Paladins don't even benefit from a wotf nerf. Go make a thread asking for paladin nerfs if you want but its irrelevant here.

[Majestik51]

ur suggestion generally is irrelevant, theres a server called ascension, ur free to go there and make ur dreams come true... we wont change the game cause of ur lack of skills bro....

[Eversongwoods]

anyone asking for a nerf to anthything other than paladins will get a response about paladins and it is justified

[Snoodydood]

Racials are meant to be strong, that's what makes them special and individual. WOTF is a staple of Vanilla, as are any of the racial abilities and it's not so OP that it needs to be changed. It's something that can only be used once per encounter anyway, and when you compare that to a spell like fear which you can cast anytime you want it doesn't sound OP at all. I've never complained about humans seeing through my stealth (I don't even play an UD for the record) and pvp is already imbalanced more by classes and not racials anyway

[Manletow]

Are you really complaining about WotF when both warlocks and priests are absolute top tier bulldozers in PvP?
If you want a broken racial, look no further than Hardiness.

y know these famous alliance warlock buldozers we see on daily basis
oh wait we dont

Gantula is truly one of the dumbest people on this forum -- they are utterly stupid on PVP matters especially. I have them on Block list ^.^

Warlocks in general are rare in PVE and PVP.
Especially with Paladins EVERYWHERE who are Cleansing Fears and Corruptions/Siphon Lifes constantly

ANYWAY -- everyone who knows anything about PVP agrees that Will of the Forsaken (and Hardiness) deserve to be nerfed.

If you want to be 'conservative' then its CD should simply be increased to 5 mins (so it is not available virtually every time an Undead player encounters a fear class)

Also Warrior is already awful in PVP and WotF screws them over even more... i feel so bad for this awful class

[Ruthus]

OP says "paladins aren't even that good," it's pretty safe to disregard anything he has to say about PVP balance

[Astrallizard]

From https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Will_of_the_Forsaken:

"Until Patch 1.6, Will of the Forsaken removed existing charm/fear/sleep effects and granted immunity to those effects for 20 seconds. This was nerfed and the immunity was decreased to 5 seconds. Ability racial cannibalize [Cannibalize] was tweaked to offset this change."

We could reduce the effectiveness of Will of the Forsaken even more, but then we would need to further buff Cannibalize... right? :)

[Dingoman]

my proposal: Nerf everything that I don't like

buff everything i like

that's the thread, thank you very much

[Ruthus]

From https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Will_of_the_Forsaken:

"Until Patch 1.6, Will of the Forsaken removed existing charm/fear/sleep effects and granted immunity to those effects for 20 seconds. This was nerfed and the immunity was decreased to 5 seconds. Ability racial cannibalize [Cannibalize] was tweaked to offset this change."

We could reduce the effectiveness of Will of the Forsaken even more, but then we would need to further buff Cannibalize... right? :)

It would be only logical.

[Chudman123]

Gnomes slow break racial has a 60s CD whereas wotf is 5 min CD

the default " i have no clue but iam argueing" local guy

Sorry typo on 5 minutes

I agree insulting people is better than having a logical argument, oh wait that's you.

[Chudman123]

I think you could nerf hardiness to be something like takes 10 percent less damage while stunned.

Everyone hates the rng of missing stuns on orcs.

Maybe if you did that you could make blood fury not debuff you?

Also does blood fury work for casters or only attack power?

[Chudman123]

From https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Will_of_the_Forsaken:

"Until Patch 1.6, Will of the Forsaken removed existing charm/fear/sleep effects and granted immunity to those effects for 20 seconds. This was nerfed and the immunity was decreased to 5 seconds. Ability racial cannibalize [Cannibalize] was tweaked to offset this change."

We could reduce the effectiveness of Will of the Forsaken even more, but then we would need to further buff Cannibalize... right? :)

Maybe make wotf 5 min CD and cannibalize could keep healing even when taking non direct damage (dots).

[Gantulga]

I think you could nerf hardiness to be something like takes 10 percent less damage while stunned.

Everyone hates the rng of missing stuns on orcs.

Maybe if you did that you could make blood fury not debuff you?

Also does blood fury work for casters or only attack power?

Blizzard solved Hardiness/Unbreakable Will/Iron Will ages ago by making them reduce the durations of those CCs by 10-15%

[Chudman123]

I think you could nerf hardiness to be something like takes 10 percent less damage while stunned.

Everyone hates the rng of missing stuns on orcs.

Maybe if you did that you could make blood fury not debuff you?

Also does blood fury work for casters or only attack power?

Blizzard solved Hardiness/Unbreakable Will/Iron Will ages ago by making them reduce the durations of those CCs by 10-15%

Ya and at the same time they buffed blood fury to work with casters and not anti heal you so long. Do you think that is appropriate?

[Gantulga]

Blood fury is in a tough spot because orcs have a weapon skill. Making it penalty-free could simply make them the new melee meta race, especially since we're likely to get new axes from the upcoming raids.
DPS-centric racials are just problematic in general.

[Chudman123]

Blood fury is in a tough spot because orcs have a weapon skill. Making it penalty-free could simply make them the new melee meta race, especially since we're likely to get new axes from the upcoming raids.
DPS-centric racials are just problematic in general.

Assume weapon skill isn't a problem for all classes because it's much easier to get. Then what are your thoughts?

[Gantulga]

Blood fury is in a tough spot because orcs have a weapon skill. Making it penalty-free could simply make them the new melee meta race, especially since we're likely to get new axes from the upcoming raids.
DPS-centric racials are just problematic in general.

Assume weapon skill isn't a problem for all classes because it's much easier to get. Then what are your thoughts?

I guess it'd be a better Berserking overall. Still making orcs the meta PvE race and now also for casters. Meanwhile alliance has zero DPS racials on their side.

[Chudman123]

Blood fury is in a tough spot because orcs have a weapon skill. Making it penalty-free could simply make them the new melee meta race, especially since we're likely to get new axes from the upcoming raids.
DPS-centric racials are just problematic in general.

Assume weapon skill isn't a problem for all classes because it's much easier to get. Then what are your thoughts?

I guess it'd be a better Berserking overall. Still making orcs the meta PvE race and now also for casters. Meanwhile alliance has zero DPS racials on their side.

yes and then I ask you what if they buff all races to be have good racials with approx equal power?