New Races - Zandalari for the Horde and (Broken) Draenei for the Alliance

[Galendor]

1. Zandalari are just taller Gurubashi

2. Nope

3. Nope

4. Errr... Nope.

Look again at the model posted. Zandalari have the most unique model, they aren`t taller than up right standing jungle Troll. The Zandalari are also visibly more beefier and have a different posture.

As for simply typing "nope" it just shows an inability to actually hold a conversation. So what? An Orc Paladin makes sense?

1. Zandalari will require a new model in Low Poly, you forget this is Vanilla, and you posted a HD Model.
2. The model will require a new skeleton, or at least, recycle the skeleton of the Night Elf or High Elf.
3. I prefer the Amani Trolls as a race instead the Amani, the Amani Trolls here are neutral to both factions.

Looks like many people saw BfA picture and started to think "Bah, he wants retail things in our Vanilla!".
The screenshot is here mostly for inspiration and an example of how things could look like. And yes, there are fan made attempts to low-poly Zandalari troll:

[Bigspliffa22]

Zul Amani or Raventusks should be one of the new Horde playables. And since Trolls will get their own spin off race, balance it out with Humans getting either Gilneans or Kul'Tirans.

[Calli]

Class imbalance could be addressed very easily giving human and high elf models to forsakens, ofc with pale skins and choosable features. Because in the lore not all forsaken is rotten.

[Tanasa]

The Horde being a bunch of outcasts doesn't mean there needs to be a fixation on every race looking like saggy butt cheeks. The initial Gobbo models were, with all respect to whoever worked on them, a total sack of ass and the revamp hasn't moved the meters up.

It would be nice if as a considerate move towards the entire other faction of the damned game they went with something more aesthetically pleasing in any future additions.

[Shatterfury]

Because this topic is too controversial and too complicated in comparison to the conversation about new races. It will inevitably escalates.

Fair, we can let it on the side. It was just a suggestion, to another suggestion. I was highlighting that Zandalari Trolls open the door to such a development.

[Shatterfury]

Looks like many people saw BfA picture and started to think "Bah, he wants retail things in our Vanilla!".
The screenshot is here mostly for inspiration and an example of how things could look like. And yes, there are fan made attempts to low-poly Zandalari troll:

Thank you for actually bothring to read the initial post.
Yes, the image I added was just for visualization of the Zandalari and yes, the Night elf skeleton with minor modifications will serve very well.

The job did for Goblins was gargantuan, doing the Zandalari would be far more easier.

[Shatterfury]

Zul Amani or Raventusks should be one of the new Horde playables. And since Trolls will get their own spin off race, balance it out with Humans getting either Gilneans or Kul'Tirans.

How would you split the Gilneans or the Kul`Tiranians from the average Stormwindian?

[Shatterfury]

Class imbalance could be addressed very easily giving human and high elf models to forsakens, ofc with pale skins and choosable features. Because in the lore not all forsaken is rotten.

Now this is a good ideea, Forsaken High Elves is a good, plausible and sensible suggestion. The Forsaken High Elves should use the High Elf skeleton in your opinion?

[Calli]

Class imbalance could be addressed very easily giving human and high elf models to forsakens, ofc with pale skins and choosable features. Because in the lore not all forsaken is rotten.

Now this is a good ideea, Forsaken High Elves is a good, plausible and sensible suggestion. The Forsaken High Elves should use the High Elf skeleton in your opinion?

Yes, and human one too. With pale skin variations and features like markings, glowing or empty eyes etc.

[Qualopec]

Although I like an idea of playable Zandalari, I should note that they lack a significant reason to join the Horde. I genuinely wonder what kind of story could lead them to the Horde, in your opinion? And if they will join the Horde - will the whole tribe do it or only a part of it? Will they do it with Rastakhan's blessing or without it?
Besides, their aesthetics is mostly MoP/BfA thing. I fear that in Vanilla they would lost a big part of their charm.

I think that there is a chance of implementing it reasonably. I think the entire premise of this thread is to provide Horde and Alliance access to paladin and shaman class respectively.

Zandalari were involved in Zul'Gurub in efforts to take down Hakkar. And one of the Zandalari on Yojamba isle that was tied to Rastakhan recognised Vol'Jin. So I think after the Darkspears helped in taking Hakkar down, I'd see it that said NPC - I believe his name was Molthor, would inform Rastakhan about what happened. And Rastakhan in return would contact Vol'Jin let him know that his Darkspears proved themselves by standing up to Hakkar and that he would dispatch some of his prelates, Arcanitals and you name it to assist the Darkspears and watch them on their progress and Revantusk tribe and see them grow stronger.

So some sort of envoy forces that would serve as a connection between the Darkspears and the Zandalari instead of having all Zandalari join. I think this would bring ALOT of potential for story telling and make Darkspears, Revantusk and Zandalari have meaningful growth over the content.

Secondly, Seeing as This server made bond between Darkspear and Revantusk much more visible and strong, and having possible Zandalari involvement,I'd imagine high elves stressing out ALOT. It begs for nice pvp content, and story seems to write itself.

[Dhunterr]

Rather have ogres. We can use the Kul Tiras and reskin them

[Galendor]

Rather have ogres. We can use the Kul Tiras and reskin them

Ok for HD graphics, but what about classic one?

[Shatterfury]

I think that there is a chance of implementing it reasonably. I think the entire premise of this thread is to provide Horde and Alliance access to paladin and shaman class respectively.

Zandalari were involved in Zul'Gurub in efforts to take down Hakkar. And one of the Zandalari on Yojamba isle that was tied to Rastakhan recognised Vol'Jin. So I think after the Darkspears helped in taking Hakkar down, I'd see it that said NPC - I believe his name was Molthor, would inform Rastakhan about what happened. And Rastakhan in return would contact Vol'Jin let him know that his Darkspears proved themselves by standing up to Hakkar and that he would dispatch some of his prelates, Arcanitals and you name it to assist the Darkspears and watch them on their progress and Revantusk tribe and see them grow stronger.

So some sort of envoy forces that would serve as a connection between the Darkspears and the Zandalari instead of having all Zandalari join. I think this would bring ALOT of potential for story telling and make Darkspears, Revantusk and Zandalari have meaningful growth over the content.

Secondly, Seeing as This server made bond between Darkspear and Revantusk much more visible and strong, and having possible Zandalari involvement,I'd imagine high elves stressing out ALOT. It begs for nice pvp content, and story seems to write itself.

The premise is to provide Zandalari Trolls to the Horde since they look nice in a feral kind of way.

Story wise the Zandalari have been involved with the Jungle Trolls with tackling Hakkar and general proximity to Zandalar itself. It does not take a leap to say that the Jungle Trolls have far more frequent dealings with the Zandalari.
With that in mind you link the Zandalari with the Horde via the Darksteapers, you create a story around the Zanalari having past naval conflicts with Stormwind and Kul Thiras since the Zandalari are a knwon naval power it all adds up.

The Zandalari would become an ally of the Horde rather than a full member, like the Forsaken or the Raventusk, but it would allow for a playable race.

Sure, it also opens up the possibility for Paladins for the Horde.

[Qualopec]

I think that there is a chance of implementing it reasonably. I think the entire premise of this thread is to provide Horde and Alliance access to paladin and shaman class respectively.

Zandalari were involved in Zul'Gurub in efforts to take down Hakkar. And one of the Zandalari on Yojamba isle that was tied to Rastakhan recognised Vol'Jin. So I think after the Darkspears helped in taking Hakkar down, I'd see it that said NPC - I believe his name was Molthor, would inform Rastakhan about what happened. And Rastakhan in return would contact Vol'Jin let him know that his Darkspears proved themselves by standing up to Hakkar and that he would dispatch some of his prelates, Arcanitals and you name it to assist the Darkspears and watch them on their progress and Revantusk tribe and see them grow stronger.

So some sort of envoy forces that would serve as a connection between the Darkspears and the Zandalari instead of having all Zandalari join. I think this would bring ALOT of potential for story telling and make Darkspears, Revantusk and Zandalari have meaningful growth over the content.

Secondly, Seeing as This server made bond between Darkspear and Revantusk much more visible and strong, and having possible Zandalari involvement,I'd imagine high elves stressing out ALOT. It begs for nice pvp content, and story seems to write itself.

The premise is to provide Zandalari Trolls to the Horde since they look nice in a feral kind of way.

Story wise the Zandalari have been involved with the Jungle Trolls with tackling Hakkar and general proximity to Zandalar itself. It does not take a leap to say that the Jungle Trolls have far more frequent dealings with the Zandalari.
With that in mind you link the Zandalari with the Horde via the Darksteapers, you create a story around the Zanalari having past naval conflicts with Stormwind and Kul Thiras since the Zandalari are a knwon naval power it all adds up.

The Zandalari would become an ally of the Horde rather than a full member, like the Forsaken or the Raventusk, but it would allow for a playable race.

Sure, it also opens up the possibility for Paladins for the Horde.

If that is the case then I also don't see a reason to make them playable. The suggested low poly model doesn't look good. Unless devs would do the same work as they did with Goblins, I don't see the Zandalari troll implementation to be successful.

The request to make Zandalari playable would only work if you wanted to have previously exclusive classes to be granted to the opposite factions. And we can still interact with the Zandalari via quests.

[Shatterfury]

If that is the case then I also don't see a reason to make them playable. The suggested low poly model doesn't look good. Unless devs would do the same work as they did with Goblins, I don't see the Zandalari troll implementation to be successful.

The request to make Zandalari playable would only work if you wanted to have previously exclusive classes to be granted to the opposite factions. And we can still interact with the Zandalari via quests.

The model posted by the other fellow is just a work in progress, the hardest thing to do is actually the skeleton and the animations, but the Night Elf skeleton and most of the anumations will work right of the box for the Zandalari, it will help a lot with the clipping also. The team will have to make a decent skin and pay attention to the tusks.
The Goblins were a lot of work on the other hand.

I am ok with adding Paladins to the Horde and Shamans to the Alliance, but some are not. I do think that adding the classes to both faction will help.

[Shatterfury]

Rather have ogres. We can use the Kul Tiras and reskin them

Nice idea, but we are stil speaking about Ogres, I do not think it will actually help with player numbers.

In some population pools from retail I saw that Zandalari trolls did beat races like the Dwarves, Gnomes or Draenei in population counts, so there is some pull towards playing them. They do not have the popularity of Humans, Blood Elves or Night Elves, but they are above average in drawing in players.

[Galendor]

Sometimes if you wanna beat elves, you need another elves...

[Bigspliffa22]

Sometimes if you wanna beat elves, you need another elves...

Why make a whole new race? Just make it so that Undead High Elves are an option within the already existing Undead. No need to make a whole new starting zone and backstory, there were plenty of HIgh Elves living in Lordaeron prior so it makes sense that HIgh Elves they would be among Sylvana's Forsaken.

[Shatterfury]

Sometimes if you wanna beat elves, you need another elves...

Those will bring in the numbers for sure, but I am not sure there would be enough numbers to begin with.

I am far from confortable with the Forsaken being allies of the Horde, bringhing more sub races of High Elves into the Turtle verse will be hard to sell.

What about plain undead High Elves ? That is not a big streach and Sylvianas is a undead High Elf herself.

A complete new race, with racials but part of the Forsaken faction or just a skin for the Forsaken skeleton? What do you think about those two choices?

[Galendor]

A complete new race, with racials but part of the Forsaken faction or just a skin for the Forsaken skeleton? What do you think about those two choices?

In any case, a model for Forsaken elves will be separated from default Forsaken characters because differences between their models are much bigger than just texture colour. So, technically speaking, both of the variations are "a complete new race" and, more likely, will be shown as a separate button in a race list (even if they'll have default undead racials and starting zone):


As I see it (a.k.a. ideal world):
Quel'Thalas patch: reimagined zone for forest trolls in depths of Zul'Aman, AND new Forsaken Elves / Darkfallen Elves race for the Horde.
Post-Quel'Thalas patch: new Zandalari troll race as a result of Horde's efforts with Darkspear / Amani tribes, with completely new starting experience and racials.

[Hyrag]

Sometimes if you wanna beat elves, you need another elves...

undead high elves for horde and Worgen(gilneas human) for aliance is a good match to up the player base
the whole vampires vs werewolfs is a good trend.

[Shatterfury]

In any case, a model for Forsaken elves will be separated from default Forsaken characters because differences between their models are much bigger than just texture colour. So, technically speaking, both of the variations are "a complete new race" and, more likely, will be shown as a separate button in a race list (even if they'll have default undead racials and starting zone):


As I see it (a.k.a. ideal world):
Quel'Thalas patch: reimagined zone for forest trolls in depths of Zul'Aman, AND new Forsaken Elves / Darkfallen Elves race for the Horde.
Post-Quel'Thalas patch: new Zandalari troll race as a result of Horde's efforts with Darkspear / Amani tribes, with completely new starting experience and racials.

Forsaken Elves and Zandalari Trolls for the Horde and for the Alliance Draenei and maybe....Furbolgs?
We need a symmetry in number of races.

But the Forsaken Elves need something to differentiate themselves from the High elves than very pale / blue skin.

At the very least a High Elf skin for the Forsaken skeleton would be something that can be sold to the mods more easily.

[Shatterfury]

[
undead high elves for horde and Worgen(gilneas human) for aliance is a good match to up the player base
the whole vampires vs werewolfs is a good trend.

Given that the Gilneas story is concluded, introducing the Worgen to the Alliance is a smaller possibility.

[Galendor]

Forsaken Elves and Zandalari Trolls for the Horde and for the Alliance Draenei and maybe....Furbolgs?
We need a symmetry in number of races.

Honestly, I see nothing bad if the Horde would have slightly more races - and I'm telling it as the Alliance dude.

But the Forsaken Elves need something to differentiate themselves from the High elves than very pale / blue skin.

At the very least a High Elf skin for the Forsaken skeleton would be something that can be sold to the mods more easily.

The "skin" you're mentioning is, basically, a separate model - like Wretched elves in TBC. It's not easier it terms of modeling because it requires a lot of work to add female version and character customisation. But the point is taken, anyway.
Ironically, Darkfallen Blood Princes in Wrath have modified Night elf skeleton.

[
undead high elves for horde and Worgen(gilneas human) for aliance is a good match to up the player base
the whole vampires vs werewolfs is a good trend.

Given that the Gilneas story is concluded, introducing the Worgen to the Alliance is a smaller possibility.

But the Lupine Coven is active and, I guess, in good standing with king Liam. And coven's researches are... intriguing, dare I say.

[Shatterfury]

Honestly, I see nothing bad if the Horde would have slightly more races - and I'm telling it as the Alliance dude.

The "skin" you're mentioning is, basically, a separate model - like Wretched elves in TBC. It's not easier it terms of modeling because it requires a lot of work to add female version and character customisation. But the point is taken, anyway.
Ironically, Darkfallen Blood Princes in Wrath have modified Night elf skeleton.

Despite the Troll icon I have a High Elf Paladin as my main on Turtle WoW, but despite that the Horde is lacking hence my post regarding the Zandalari. I also feel the Horde has drawn the shorter sticks in some other fields like fewer fleshed out allied factions and sheer number of zones to level and having a faction imbalance is annoying. With Alah Thalas fleshed out - beautiful zone by the way, and the addition of Gilneas as mostly an Alliance zone, with visibly fewer Horde quests -I will be suggesting a Horde counterpart zone to it. :D

The Wretched actually use the Forsaken skeleton - they have the same stance and animation as them.

But the Lupine Coven is active and, I guess, in good standing with king Liam. And coven's researches are... intriguing, dare I say.

Ok...interesting, I barely started questing in Gilneas.

[Galendor]

The Wretched actually use the Forsaken skeleton - they have the same stance and animation as them.

Yes, like I wrote before. But again, the model needs character customization - hair, faces, beards, etc. And female version, too. All of it is a work for model-makers, and it's not easier that the work devs did with goblins.

[Qualopec]

Why this thread was derailed to San'lyn? The question was about adding Zandalari/ Broken Dranei. I see no reason why hammer ogres or undead elves into it especially when the races in question could offer exclusive class.

[Shatterfury]

Yes, like I wrote before. But again, the model needs character customization - hair, faces, beards, etc. And female version, too. All of it is a work for model-makers, and it's not easier that the work devs did with goblins.

Fair point, but still, they don`t have to work on the skeleton.

[Shatterfury]

Why this thread was derailed to San'lyn? The question was about adding Zandalari/ Broken Dranei. I see no reason why hammer ogres or undead elves into it especially when the races in question could offer exclusive class.

We just bantered off topic. :D

I have seen some people aren`t too keen on offering Paladins to the Horde and Shamans to the Alliance.

[Deso5618]

If we want to do paladins in horde and shamans in alliance...

Undeads should have option for paladins, like they could be trained by Leonid Barthalomew. https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Leonid_Barthalomew But issue is, he is Argent Dawn Forseaken, loyal to Argent Dawn, not Sylvanas.

Shamans could be only for dwarves if draenei are out of option. Wildhammer dwarves fits well for shamans and eventually druids.

As for new races...

Ogres definetly to horde, but thing might be with creation of female model. As for alliance, i'm out of options.