Lashers farm is broken

[Snoodydood]

More items and gold doesn't cause inflation.
[...] The problem is two fold. 1. Scalpers

If gold doesn't cause inflation but Scalpers do, then explain how is it possible that Scalpers have enough gold to scalp the items in AH?
Of course more gold per player in economy causes the inflation, it's ALWAYS true. For example just look at every fresh WoW server that came out - in the first days after launch everything is very cheap compared to the economy after a few months/years.

It's pretty simple. You just play the AH. Scalpers don't farm. You start small and work your way up. That's why everything is inflated. Not because there's too much gold in the economy. It's at every level of item. Silverleaf went from a few copper to 25s/ea the other week. It maybe cost someone 1g to buy out the market and they probably made a few gold off it. Then you can move up to the next tier. A guy on YouTube made several videos on how to do it in classic.

Scalpers have directly over inflated the economy. The reason it stays inflated is multifaceted. Mainly, though, that there are a lot of ppl that have been on the server for years and have anywhere from 5 to 35 crafting CD alts. They can afford to buy everything. The gold earned keeps the inflation high, but it's not the source of it. The source is 1. Scalping and 2. Not enough supply, in that order. If you choke out the supply by removing another farm, costs will only rise further.

I don't see why both things can't be true. you're absolutely right about the scalper problem, and I think some of them even use AH bots to instantly buy out certain items listed below their prices. But people getting hundreds of gold a day with a brain dead farm only adds to the problem. Scalpers can just multibox, brainlessly farming on a paladin while buying out the AH at the same time. All the gold from lasher farms is only supporting the scalpers lettting them raise prices every day. Without such an easy farm, people wouldn't be wiling to dish out the gold for basic things.

[Ataika]

If every player has equal access to huge amounts of gold

Because not every player has access to huge amouunt of gold farm.
Newbies are not aware they have to make an alt mage/paladin/priest to abuse dire maul mobs otherwise their gold farm will be insufficient and falls behind the bloated inflated economy thanks to people who do not see any problem here.

[Ataika]

If gold doesn't cause inflation but Scalpers do, then explain how is it possible that Scalpers have enough gold to scalp the items in AH?
Of course more gold per player in economy causes the inflation, it's ALWAYS true. For example just look at every fresh WoW server that came out - in the first days after launch everything is very cheap compared to the economy after a few months/years.

It's pretty simple. You just play the AH. Scalpers don't farm. You start small and work your way up. That's why everything is inflated. Not because there's too much gold in the economy. It's at every level of item. Silverleaf went from a few copper to 25s/ea the other week. It maybe cost someone 1g to buy out the market and they probably made a few gold off it. Then you can move up to the next tier. A guy on YouTube made several videos on how to do it in classic.

Scalpers have directly over inflated the economy. The reason it stays inflated is multifaceted. Mainly, though, that there are a lot of ppl that have been on the server for years and have anywhere from 5 to 35 crafting CD alts. They can afford to buy everything. The gold earned keeps the inflation high, but it's not the source of it. The source is 1. Scalping and 2. Not enough supply, in that order. If you choke out the supply by removing another farm, costs will only rise further.

I don't see why both things can't be true. you're absolutely right about the scalper problem, and I think some of them even use AH bots to instantly buy out certain items listed below their prices. But people getting hundreds of gold a day with a brain dead farm only adds to the problem. Scalpers can just multibox, brainlessly farming on a paladin while buying out the AH at the same time. All the gold from lasher farms is only supporting the scalpers lettting them raise prices every day. Without such an easy farm, people wouldn't be wiling to dish out the gold for basic things.

Thank you.

[Zvyrhol]

More items and gold doesn't cause inflation.
[...] The problem is two fold. 1. Scalpers

If gold doesn't cause inflation but Scalpers do, then explain how is it possible that Scalpers have enough gold to scalp the items in AH?
Of course more gold per player in economy causes the inflation, it's ALWAYS true. For example just look at every fresh WoW server that came out - in the first days after launch everything is very cheap compared to the economy after a few months/years.

It's pretty simple. You just play the AH. Scalpers don't farm. You start small and work your way up. That's why everything is inflated. Not because there's too much gold in the economy. It's at every level of item. Silverleaf went from a few copper to 25s/ea the other week. It maybe cost someone 1g to buy out the market and they probably made a few gold off it. Then you can move up to the next tier. A guy on YouTube made several videos on how to do it in classic.

Scalpers have directly over inflated the economy. The reason it stays inflated is multifaceted. Mainly, though, that there are a lot of ppl that have been on the server for years and have anywhere from 5 to 35 crafting CD alts. They can afford to buy everything. The gold earned keeps the inflation high, but it's not the source of it. The source is 1. Scalping and 2. Not enough supply, in that order. If you choke out the supply by removing another farm, costs will only rise further.

I do not deny that your second point is the cause of inflation - generally I agree. More precisely, it could be said that the cause of inflation is much greater demand than the supply of a given item on the market.

But on earth I can't understand how scalping can be a major factor in inflation. Let's say it clearly: long-term inflation. Your example of Silverleaf isn't correct if we look at long-term inflation. According to this website https://www.wowauctions.net/auctionHous ... erleaf-765 Silverleaf costs 50-100 copper for over month - sorry I'm having a break from the game now so I can't check how real is this in game but I suppose this data is correct. Price of Silverleaf came back to norm after scalping operation. This inflation is only short-term. I'm scalper too, specialist of Enchanted Leather xD. Scalping is very risky operation and if you believe scalpers buy infinitely the goods to earn profit then you are wrong especially in some branches like Flasks. If you decide to pump flask price in order to set the price high, then you will see that other AH players notice good moment to sell their flasks they have stocked in their banks. They will screw up your strategy because then you have 2 options: option 1 - buy their flasks; option 2 - give up and not to risk the rest of your gold. If you choose option 1 then you will have to spend more gold to buy these flasks and face high supply due to attractive price. Let's assume you buy out everything, now you control the market. You invested much gold but... you must sell the flasks back if you want to earn gold. Meanwhile, you should sell all of them as fast as possible in highest price possible because by buying out everything, you gave the signal to the market that crafting flasks will give alchemists big profit - your action accidently increased supply of flasks on the market because the price is very attractive. This is the phase when both you and alchemists want to sell their stuff - as a scalper you win if you sell all these flasks before the price goes back to norm. Now imagine the market is observed by many people - they respond quickly by joining the race and sell many flasks much much cheaper than you in order to earn profit. Theoretically, in this phase they can totally screw you up by flooding the market with many flasks which causes the price to go down rapidly. Again you have option 1 and 2 and the process repeats until you run out of gold (which obviously means you go bankrupt and lose) OR you beat the flask market of the server which is very unlikely due to how much expensive it is - I find it nearly impossible for a single person to buy out all flasks created by all alchemists on the server in a few days and even more so in long-term. Now let's go back. You choose option 2. Then the phase of selling flasks starts earlier because you decided to retreat and not to lose your gold completely. Your scalping operation fails, you will likely lose gold.

Note that scalpers actually don't lower the supply in long-term - because they ALSO want to sell the scalped item but in the moment when they consider it the most profitable. Long-term inflation could be caused by scalpers only supposing that they have infinite gold which is technically impossible in WoW. In the most lively and valuable markets like flask market the scalpers will go bankrupt in a short time depending how much gold they tried to invest in. Maybe you don't understand but I assure you they don't buy these items only to deposit them in the bank and keep them there forever.

I remember someone made post about flasks' price going wild nearly 3 weeks ago on Christmas Eve iirc. You will see how the price looked like here https://www.wowauctions.net/auctionHous ... ower-13512
It's possible someone tried to scalp the flasks on 25th December. But as you can see in following days the price went back to norm, however we can see the flasks generally have been going up - I think it's because the general supply for flasks is still too low compared to the demand. From what I've seen only Consumables market is inflated - other markets are cheaper or at approximately the same price as last month.

[Zvyrhol]

For those of you who still somehow think that scalpers contribute to long-term inflation, I would advise you to prepare some solid arguments for this thesis. To avoid misunderstandings: scalpers can shake the market and adjust the outdated price on slow market to the normal one. But their actions will never inflate the market in long-term because their amount of goods bought equals to the amount of goods sold by scalpers -> supply doesn't change in long-term.

[Ibux]

if you wanna make a buck on flasks then you just buy the flasks when they are lower then normal and sell them during dry times or during raid times i suppose. or buy the mats for them and craft to sell if the mats are cheaper then normal price.

[Turboman]

If every player has equal access to huge amounts of gold

Because not every player has access to huge amouunt of gold farm.
Newbies are not aware they have to make an alt mage/paladin/priest to abuse dire maul mobs otherwise their gold farm will be insufficient and falls behind the bloated inflated economy thanks to people who do not see any problem here.

So what its just a "git gud" problem? Devs should nerf lasher farm because a new guy doesnt know about it?

[Ataika]

If every player has equal access to huge amounts of gold

Because not every player has access to huge amouunt of gold farm.
Newbies are not aware they have to make an alt mage/paladin/priest to abuse dire maul mobs otherwise their gold farm will be insufficient and falls behind the bloated inflated economy thanks to people who do not see any problem here.

So what its just a "git gud" problem? Devs should nerf lasher farm because a new guy doesnt know about it?

I've said multiple times why they should nerf all out-of-air-gold-farm-methods which bring huge amount of gold.

[Turboman]

Because not every player has access to huge amouunt of gold farm.
Newbies are not aware they have to make an alt mage/paladin/priest to abuse dire maul mobs otherwise their gold farm will be insufficient and falls behind the bloated inflated economy thanks to people who do not see any problem here.

So what its just a "git gud" problem? Devs should nerf lasher farm because a new guy doesnt know about it?

I've said multiple times why they should nerf all out-of-air-gold-farm-methods which bring huge amount of gold.

No you've been saying "inflation" over and over again, also pots prices. I'm trying to understand how exactly inflation hurts the economy if everyone have an access to farm lashers. And btw i'm not asking out of spite or something, i really cant get a grasp.

[Xwolfi]

Why is it still possible ?
I do not know any raider who farms gold in any other way.
People simply level mages for that purpose because this farm is so far ahead of any other methods its ridiculous.

I would understand if they drop herbs and other mats stuff, but the main problem is - gold comes from gray trash you sell. Iam not sure why developers are not concern because 100g/hour is an insane inflation increase stuff, people literally get gold our of nowhere.

Why its still possible ? Why its not nerfed ?
I understand that this topic will be swarmed by mad raiders who does like the idea to sit there 3 horus and get gold for a whole raiding week, but this farm is not health for the server overall.

Decrease trash income (delete it), increase herbs drop - this will stop inflating gold and bring more herbs on the AH to decrease prices overall. Benefits everyone, benefits server. Why not ?

Lashers has already been nerfed once. There are multiple gold farms with similar Gold/h.... You cant nerf every gold farm. I suggest you stfu and stop crying

[Ataika]

Why is it still possible ?
I do not know any raider who farms gold in any other way.
People simply level mages for that purpose because this farm is so far ahead of any other methods its ridiculous.

I would understand if they drop herbs and other mats stuff, but the main problem is - gold comes from gray trash you sell. Iam not sure why developers are not concern because 100g/hour is an insane inflation increase stuff, people literally get gold our of nowhere.

Why its still possible ? Why its not nerfed ?
I understand that this topic will be swarmed by mad raiders who does like the idea to sit there 3 horus and get gold for a whole raiding week, but this farm is not health for the server overall.

Decrease trash income (delete it), increase herbs drop - this will stop inflating gold and bring more herbs on the AH to decrease prices overall. Benefits everyone, benefits server. Why not ?

Lashers has already been nerfed once. There are multiple gold farms with similar Gold/h.... You cant nerf every gold farm. I suggest you stfu and stop crying

And all these instanced gray items farms should be nerfed accordingly.
Too hard for a little boi to understand why this is bad for a server health when instanced grind is much more productive in a flat gold income than any outdoor activity.
Get lost.

[Drubarrymooer]

It's possible someone tried to scalp the flasks on 25th December. But as you can see in following days the price went back to norm, however we can see the flasks generally have been going up - I think it's because the general supply for flasks is still too low compared to the demand. From what I've seen only Consumables market is inflated - other markets are cheaper or at approximately the same price as last month.

You're correct that there are only short term gains when it comes to scalping and that it is not sustainable. However it isn't as simple as just looking at one commodity because it's not just one market. It's every market. The same thing has happened a handful of times in a handful of markets over the last few years. Devs "fixed" it, albeit temporarily, by increasing the supply. The markets never went down. Blotus was being scalped in the 40-60g range, up from 15g. Despite having an adequate supply, the new norm settled around 25-30g. It stayed that way until the most recent wave of scalping. As I said, scalping raises the price, and the gold folks earn to keep up, keeps it there. If we take gold sources away, it's not guaranteed to fix it, and may make things worse. I'm not willing to take that risk when flasks are 100g and mongoose pots are 10g and plagueblooms are almost 2g/ea

The fundamental problem causing this is player greed. When the population was 1.2k and under, this wasn't a big deal because everyone basically knew one another. Once the word got out and the classic chads came, issues like scalping, node camping, and even node stealing became more commonplace. We can inflate the supply again to "fix" the problem.... But it's just going to happen again.

[Turboman]

Why is it still possible ?
I do not know any raider who farms gold in any other way.
People simply level mages for that purpose because this farm is so far ahead of any other methods its ridiculous.

I would understand if they drop herbs and other mats stuff, but the main problem is - gold comes from gray trash you sell. Iam not sure why developers are not concern because 100g/hour is an insane inflation increase stuff, people literally get gold our of nowhere.

Why its still possible ? Why its not nerfed ?
I understand that this topic will be swarmed by mad raiders who does like the idea to sit there 3 horus and get gold for a whole raiding week, but this farm is not health for the server overall.

Decrease trash income (delete it), increase herbs drop - this will stop inflating gold and bring more herbs on the AH to decrease prices overall. Benefits everyone, benefits server. Why not ?

Lashers has already been nerfed once. There are multiple gold farms with similar Gold/h.... You cant nerf every gold farm. I suggest you stfu and stop crying

And all these instanced gray items farms should be nerfed accordingly.
Too hard for a little boi to understand why this is bad for a server health when instanced grind is much more productive in a flat gold income than any outdoor activity.
Get lost.

Please stop ignoring me and elaborate on your points for fucks sake.

[Ataika]

It's possible someone tried to scalp the flasks on 25th December. But as you can see in following days the price went back to norm, however we can see the flasks generally have been going up - I think it's because the general supply for flasks is still too low compared to the demand. From what I've seen only Consumables market is inflated - other markets are cheaper or at approximately the same price as last month.

You're correct that there are only short term gains when it comes to scalping and that it is not sustainable. However it isn't as simple as just looking at one commodity because it's not just one market. It's every market. The same thing has happened a handful of times in a handful of markets over the last few years. Devs "fixed" it, albeit temporarily, by increasing the supply. The markets never went down. Blotus was being scalped in the 40-60g range, up from 15g. Despite having an adequate supply, the new norm settled around 25-30g. It stayed that way until the most recent wave of scalping. As I said, scalping raises the price, and the gold folks earn to keep up, keeps it there. If we take gold sources away, it's not guaranteed to fix it, and may make things worse. I'm not willing to take that risk when flasks are 100g and mongoose pots are 10g and plagueblooms are almost 2g/ea

The fundamental problem causing this is player greed. When the population was 1.2k and under, this wasn't a big deal because everyone basically knew one another. Once the word got out and the classic chads came, issues like scalping, node camping, and even node stealing became more commonplace. We can inflate the supply again to "fix" the problem.... But it's just going to happen again.

You can not buy out every flask for 72g and reuploads it for 160g.
People will not buy it for 160g because its not a comfortable base for all gold methods we have atm, its too expensive.
Intorudce new dire maul where u can farm lashers grays for 500g a hour and within few months people will afford these prices without any problem.
See where is the problem ?

[Ibux]

on the plus side. you don't really need to buy flasks for any raid unless you are a main tank. or you wanna try hard to push yourself. if the prices on flask is considered to high then maybe devs should reduce the amount of materials for them also to not be so costly? or add 5-10 extra crystal vials in the cost and give you as many flasks back in return per craft.

[Zvyrhol]

The markets never went down. Blotus was being scalped in the 40-60g range, up from 15g. Despite having an adequate supply, the new norm settled around 25-30g. It stayed that way until the most recent wave of scalping. As I said, scalping raises the price, and the gold folks earn to keep up, keeps it there.

But increased price of Black Lotus wasn't caused by scalping. As I said before, scalpers can't inflate the price infinitely. Simply, the demand for all consumables had increased while the wave of new players on the server slowly moved into the raiding content. This process is still happening now. There are more guilds farming Naxx now than one year ago. Imagine clearing Naxxramas without consumables. Demand has increased and the supply has been limited in advance by a limited number of herb nodes. Moreover, new raid Emerald Sanctum was added so some min-maxers have new raid in which they can use consumables. As you can see, this only added fuel to the fire. Guess what, the demand raises even more while supply is still the same. If demand is higher than supply of the item, then the item's price will go up in AH - simple economy's law. In market without scalpers the price will raise but in slower pace. Scalpers can only make process of adjusting the price to norm faster but the core reason of raising price is demand being higher than supply. Blaming the scalping as main cause of inflation is unreasonable. It's like making a scapegoat of scalpers - new witch-hunt.

I think you still don't understand that scalpers can't do it infinitely. As Ataika noticed, if raw gold farm like lasher one is removed, people won't buy the flasks if their price will be sky high. Scalpers want to sell the items already bought. Assuming that every consument is so stupid to buy the flask for 100g is simply wrong. They will ignore this consumable -> demand goes down.

[Drubarrymooer]

You can not buy out every flask for 72g and reuploads it for 160g.
People will not buy it for 160g because its not a comfortable base for all gold methods we have atm, its too expensive.
Intorudce new dire maul where u can farm lashers grays for 500g a hour and within few months people will afford these prices without any problem.
See where is the problem ?

You've reiterated it several times. I've said I understand your point. You say it cannot be done yet I know people doing it. When ES came out and arcane crystals went from 40g/ea to a few hundred gold each, I know the people directly responsible for that. Lasher farming isn't the best way to make gold in the game and it's not how everyone earns gold. There are other farms that are more profitable. As I've said though, scalpers aren't farming. They play the AH all the time. They have hundreds and hundreds of thousands of gold. As I've said, the inflation is caused by scalping, and the existing gold from players that raid every week and have been for literal years are 100% ok with buying 100g flasks and 10g mongooses.

But increased price of Black Lotus wasn't caused by scalping. As I said before, scalpers can't inflate the price infinitely. Simply, the demand for all consumables had increased while the wave of new players on the server slowly moved into the raiding content. This process is still happening now. There are more guilds farming Naxx now than one year ago. Imagine clearing Naxxramas without consumables. Demand has increased and the supply has been limited in advance by a limited number of herb nodes. Moreover, new raid Emerald Sanctum was added so some min-maxers have new raid in which they can use consumables. As you can see, this only added fuel to the fire. Guess what, the demand raises even more while supply is still the same. If demand is higher than supply of the item, then the item's price will go up in AH - simple economy's law. In market without scalpers the price will raise but in slower pace. Scalpers can only make process of adjusting the price to norm faster but the core reason of raising price is demand being higher than supply. Blaming the scalping as main cause of inflation is unreasonable. It's like making a scapegoat of scalpers - new witch-hunt.

I think you still don't understand that scalpers can't do it infinitely. As Ataika noticed, if raw gold farm like lasher one is removed, people won't buy the flasks if their price will be sky high. Scalpers want to sell the items already bought. Assuming that every consument is so stupid to buy the flask for 100g is simply wrong. They will ignore this consumable -> demand goes down.

Yes it was caused by scalpers. I know several players that engaged in it. They would get on discord and gleefully brag about their profits for weeks until the devs stepped in and introduced the chance for high level herbs to drop them.


This has been going on for over a year at this point. There was more gold on the market when the server pop was 10k regularly and the markets weren't this bad. I understand both your point and I'm not saying you're wrong. Less gold in the world should bring prices down. There is just way more gold than you realize and if you cut out instanced farming, you'll take more herbs and bags and such off the market, raising their prices and hurting players that don't have tons of gold or just get bored by farms like lashers.

[Xwolfi]

Why is it still possible ?
I do not know any raider who farms gold in any other way.
People simply level mages for that purpose because this farm is so far ahead of any other methods its ridiculous.

I would understand if they drop herbs and other mats stuff, but the main problem is - gold comes from gray trash you sell. Iam not sure why developers are not concern because 100g/hour is an insane inflation increase stuff, people literally get gold our of nowhere.

Why its still possible ? Why its not nerfed ?
I understand that this topic will be swarmed by mad raiders who does like the idea to sit there 3 horus and get gold for a whole raiding week, but this farm is not health for the server overall.

Decrease trash income (delete it), increase herbs drop - this will stop inflating gold and bring more herbs on the AH to decrease prices overall. Benefits everyone, benefits server. Why not ?

Lashers has already been nerfed once. There are multiple gold farms with similar Gold/h.... You cant nerf every gold farm. I suggest you stfu and stop crying

And all these instanced gray items farms should be nerfed accordingly.
Too hard for a little boi to understand why this is bad for a server health when instanced grind is much more productive in a flat gold income than any outdoor activity.
Get lost.

How is it bad for the game? So you're saying we should remove all end game dungeons because they are good gold farms? You sound incredibly stupid. My guess would be you rolled warrior and are crying because you cant make money.

[Xudo]

imagine that lasher farm will be nerfed. What will you want to nerf next? When you stop nerfing gold farms?

I would like to nerf any gold farming method where people get straigh gold from mobs and not consumables/tradable items. Selling items from bosses is fine since its nowhere crazy 100+g a hour
Its logical, its healthy for the server and community. Sure, selfish mobs gonna butrhurt becayse their gold out of thin air is gone but who cares.

So you propose solution to "remove grey loot from high level dungeons".
I think people will farm bosses in lvl 40 dungeons like Uldaman, SM:Cath or Maraudon for boss loot.
Is it somehow better than farming DME?

You can't eliminate goldfarms entirely. You can just force people to switch one goldfarm to another.
People always will find optimal goldfarm with new set of rules.
Lets get back to my original question. What ingame activity should be promoted to be new and better goldfarm?

When I thought about it, I realized that PvP can be promoted that way. If people will get more gold by doing PvP (even if they lose), then it will be next goldfarm. Is it good? Doing PvP all the time is surely better than doing solo DME runs.

[Jongyi]

I don't think fixing economy by making people poorer is a good solution

[Ibux]

if you are sitting on thousands of gold and suddenly a lot of people get a lot lower purchasing power. and prices dropped because of it. that would also mean you could now vacuum goods at a lower price. your big wealth gained more value. and it's now easier for you as a scalper to control the market for profit.

[Drubarrymooer]

if you are sitting on thousands of gold and suddenly a lot of people get a lot lower purchasing power. and prices dropped because of it. that would also mean you could now vacuum goods at a lower price. your big wealth gained more value. and it's now easier for you as a scalper to control the market for profit.

100% this. Players have quite literally created a wealth gap.

[Ataika]

if you are sitting on thousands of gold and suddenly a lot of people get a lot lower purchasing power. and prices dropped because of it. that would also mean you could now vacuum goods at a lower price. your big wealth gained more value. and it's now easier for you as a scalper to control the market for profit.

Jesus christ
Once again - you can not post items higher than the player's buying limit.
And the imit will be lower due to nerfed aoe shitfest happening in dire maul.

You literally heard the term "scalper" and now running around yelling fearing kids.

if you are sitting on thousands of gold and suddenly a lot of people get a lot lower purchasing power.

I love that.
Now you have to ask yourself why puchace power of "a lot of people" bound to instanced dire maul aoe grind.
See the point ? See the problem ?

And there are more "a lot of people" who won't become poorer because they do not abuse dire maul, so they will benefit fomr this change since their LEGAL imcome will have more purchase power if we compare it to current dire maul fiesta that bloats prices and increases inflation serverwide.

[Turboman]

if you are sitting on thousands of gold and suddenly a lot of people get a lot lower purchasing power. and prices dropped because of it. that would also mean you could now vacuum goods at a lower price. your big wealth gained more value. and it's now easier for you as a scalper to control the market for profit.

Jesus christ
Once again - you can not post items higher than the player's buying limit.
And the imit will be lower due to nerfed aoe shitfest happening in dire maul.

You literally heard the term "scalper" and now running around yelling fearing kids.

if you are sitting on thousands of gold and suddenly a lot of people get a lot lower purchasing power.

I love that.
Now you have to ask yourself why puchace power of "a lot of people" bound to instanced dire maul aoe grind.
See the point ? See the problem ?

And there are more "a lot of people" who won't become poorer because they do not abuse dire maul, so they will benefit fomr this change since their LEGAL imcome will have more purchase power if we compare it to current dire maul fiesta that bloats prices and increases inflation serverwide.

None of it matters because like i've said everyone can go to dme and farm gold, literally every player. It"s not like dme is getting gated by a group of elite players conspired against the rest to keep all the wealth to themselves. People farm DME because it doesnt require a lot of effort, they don't want to work or "no life" the game to be able to play it and my quess is you're just butthurt because of it.

[Queenoona]

The problem with lashers isnt that people are making gold its that they are making gold from nothing.
1 Lockout (5 runs) of lashers is 30-50 raw gold without interacting with another player. Just straight created into existence. This is the gold the causes inflation.

This is not gold traded between players, this is gold created out of thin air at a very rapid rate due to the low barrier of entry and the quantity of people doing it.

I repeat, the problem isnt that people are making money, the problem is where that money is coming from.
Player to player trading, good.
Raw gold generated in massive amounts from the server, bad.

Grey items should exist and be sold, but not in this quantity and efficiency.

[Jongyi]

The problem with lashers isnt that people are making gold its that they are making gold from nothing.
1 Lockout (5 runs) of lashers is 30-50 raw gold without interacting with another player. Just straight created into existence. This is the gold the causes inflation.

This is not gold traded between players, this is gold created out of thin air at a very rapid rate due to the low barrier of entry and the quantity of people doing it.

I repeat, the problem isnt that people are making money, the problem is where that money is coming from.
Player to player trading, good.
Raw gold generated in massive amounts from the server, bad.

Grey items should exist and be sold, but not in this quantity and efficiency.

Cutting people's income through nerfing is good for economy either. It is only hurting new players who don't have tons of gold in their pocket.
This post and those who agreed with sounds like elitist gatekeepers to me since they already have tons of gold and don't want new players to have access to them.

[Ataika]

The problem with lashers isnt that people are making gold its that they are making gold from nothing.
1 Lockout (5 runs) of lashers is 30-50 raw gold without interacting with another player. Just straight created into existence. This is the gold the causes inflation.

This is not gold traded between players, this is gold created out of thin air at a very rapid rate due to the low barrier of entry and the quantity of people doing it.

I repeat, the problem isnt that people are making money, the problem is where that money is coming from.
Player to player trading, good.
Raw gold generated in massive amounts from the server, bad.

Grey items should exist and be sold, but not in this quantity and efficiency.

Thanks for being sane.

The problem with lashers isnt that people are making gold its that they are making gold from nothing.
1 Lockout (5 runs) of lashers is 30-50 raw gold without interacting with another player. Just straight created into existence. This is the gold the causes inflation.

This is not gold traded between players, this is gold created out of thin air at a very rapid rate due to the low barrier of entry and the quantity of people doing it.

I repeat, the problem isnt that people are making money, the problem is where that money is coming from.
Player to player trading, good.
Raw gold generated in massive amounts from the server, bad.

Grey items should exist and be sold, but not in this quantity and efficiency.

Cutting people's income through nerfing is good for economy either. It is only hurting new players who don't have tons of gold in their pocket.
This post and those who agreed with sounds like elitist gatekeepers to me since they already have tons of gold and don't want new players to have access to them.

Its not hurting new players. its hurting dire maul abusers.
In fact it will help new players to farm because their purchasing pwoer from LEGAL farm will be higher due to abuser's lack of gold, and price drop as result.

[Drubarrymooer]

The problem with lashers isnt that people are making gold its that they are making gold from nothing.
1 Lockout (5 runs) of lashers is 30-50 raw gold without interacting with another player. Just straight created into existence. This is the gold the causes inflation.

This is not gold traded between players, this is gold created out of thin air at a very rapid rate due to the low barrier of entry and the quantity of people doing it.

I repeat, the problem isnt that people are making money, the problem is where that money is coming from.
Player to player trading, good.
Raw gold generated in massive amounts from the server, bad.

Grey items should exist and be sold, but not in this quantity and efficiency.

Thanks for being sane.

The problem with lashers isnt that people are making gold its that they are making gold from nothing.
1 Lockout (5 runs) of lashers is 30-50 raw gold without interacting with another player. Just straight created into existence. This is the gold the causes inflation.

This is not gold traded between players, this is gold created out of thin air at a very rapid rate due to the low barrier of entry and the quantity of people doing it.

I repeat, the problem isnt that people are making money, the problem is where that money is coming from.
Player to player trading, good.
Raw gold generated in massive amounts from the server, bad.

Grey items should exist and be sold, but not in this quantity and efficiency.

Cutting people's income through nerfing is good for economy either. It is only hurting new players who don't have tons of gold in their pocket.
This post and those who agreed with sounds like elitist gatekeepers to me since they already have tons of gold and don't want new players to have access to them.

Its not hurting new players. its hurting dire maul abusers.
In fact it will help new players to farm because their purchasing pwoer from LEGAL farm will be higher due to abuser's lack of gold, and price drop as result.

It will not. I've outlined why in this thread and several other threads. And what are you talking about "LEGAL"? doesn't matter. I'm out. You keep insulting myself and others and I don't entertain that in any way shape or form. Enjoy your time on Turtle WoW.

[Ataika]

The problem with lashers isnt that people are making gold its that they are making gold from nothing.
1 Lockout (5 runs) of lashers is 30-50 raw gold without interacting with another player. Just straight created into existence. This is the gold the causes inflation.

This is not gold traded between players, this is gold created out of thin air at a very rapid rate due to the low barrier of entry and the quantity of people doing it.

I repeat, the problem isnt that people are making money, the problem is where that money is coming from.
Player to player trading, good.
Raw gold generated in massive amounts from the server, bad.

Grey items should exist and be sold, but not in this quantity and efficiency.

Thanks for being sane.

Cutting people's income through nerfing is good for economy either. It is only hurting new players who don't have tons of gold in their pocket.
This post and those who agreed with sounds like elitist gatekeepers to me since they already have tons of gold and don't want new players to have access to them.

Its not hurting new players. its hurting dire maul abusers.
In fact it will help new players to farm because their purchasing pwoer from LEGAL farm will be higher due to abuser's lack of gold, and price drop as result.

It will not. I've outlined why in this thread and several other threads. And what are you talking about "LEGAL"? doesn't matter. I'm out. You keep insulting myself and others and I don't entertain that in any way shape or form. Enjoy your time on Turtle WoW.

I will repeat this again - defending the method that injects PURE GOLD into an economy in high emount with low effort is possible in two situations - you are delusional or biased (abusing this method). Both are not insults, but yes you are free to leave (prolly going DM to abuse it hue hue).

I love these responses "DM nerf gonna affect people".
Like, you have to ask yourself why instanced goldfarm method is gonna affect the whole server. Maybe just meybe its because something is not healthy ? Just maybe, instanced aoe meme grind should not be more profitable then the LEGAL farming method most people use ?

People confuse gold duping via vendoring overpriced trash and a real FARM for items/stuff you can trade.
This game should not have any methods that allow player to jump into non contested instanced area and farm big amount of gold out of mobs without interracting with other players. That similar to money printing machine in every house basement that just leads to higher inflation and increased prices, the reason why goverment is slapping such persons.

Turtle devs should slap too if they are planning to maintain the healthy economy (which is already derailed by these "farming" methods and every day its going worse).

[Erhog]

I dunno how you can get 100 pure gold from this farm by 1 character - 100g cames from selling herbs which drops and could be gathered around.

You can not buy out every flask for 72g and reuploads it for 160g.
People will not buy it for 160g because its not a comfortable base for all gold methods we have atm, its too expensive.
Intorudce new dire maul where u can farm lashers grays for 500g a hour and within few months people will afford these prices without any problem.
See where is the problem ?

Flasks could costs 200-250g without additional changes just coz one thing - you MUST pop them in naxx/aq40 raid. If you don't have a gold or something - guild will take in raid some1 who could. So cheaper prices benefits raiders coz they could farm less between raids. But demand on raid consumables will growth up until new players came to the server and starting raiding. And ppl will pay almost any price for consumables they cannot get by themselves due to - you just cannot skip it in any case.

I can understand that many people would want to bring prices into range when they could go into raid and pay for spent consumables by dropped gold but this will never happen - it's not in server's interest to lower time ppl spending in the game. There aren't too many running high rates PvE servers around coz they arent provide challenge and feeling of achievement so not many players would spent their time for sessoin type of WoW - there are much more session-type games which is much better to play in than WoW.

[Oomentaloo]

Everybody should calm down a bit.
Some folks mix their feelings and gold making methods with the discussion of how the server should function and what Turtle is about.

Always have in mind that Turtle WoW is RP-PvE Server, where slow and steady questing is encouraged.
If you want that kind of community (I audaciously claim that the Devs want that) you have to structure certain things around the goal.

New players don't farm Lashers for gold, that's a specific min/max type of player. These type of players should not be the core focus of the server. New players should be able to quest, try the new zones and use the AH. With more and more gold injected in the economy everything will get pricier and normal new players have to play the AH game to get some gold for average items.
Question is are we at that level yet?

Anybody can do Lashers. Just because anybody CAN do it is not a good argument that everybody SHOULD do it.
It's not illegal nor is it cheating, but maybe its an unintentional game mechanic. Some unintentional game mechanic that developers overlook can be very good and a driver of a game but some are hurting the actual intended game play.

I mean we saw what certain systems have done to retail. Do we want players to feel obligated to use an unintended farming method to buy something on the market? the generated gold will not only change flask prices.

Where is the balance on a server that is very crowded.

And I don't think that people are asking for flask prices that so low that the last raid generates enough gold to finance the next.

[Bigsmerf]

As somebody who doesn't do this farm I can confirm that its existence affects me in a very large and negative way.

[Ataika]

Everybody should calm down a bit.
Some folks mix their feelings and gold making methods with the discussion of how the server should function and what Turtle is about.

Always have in mind that Turtle WoW is RP-PvE Server, where slow and steady questing is encouraged.
If you want that kind of community (I audaciously claim that the Devs want that) you have to structure certain things around the goal.

New players don't farm Lashers for gold, that's a specific min/max type of player. These type of players should not be the core focus of the server. New players should be able to quest, try the new zones and use the AH. With more and more gold injected in the economy everything will get pricier and normal new players have to play the AH game to get some gold for average items.
Question is are we at that level yet?

Anybody can do Lashers. Just because anybody CAN do it is not a good argument that everybody SHOULD do it.
It's not illegal nor is it cheating, but maybe its an unintentional game mechanic. Some unintentional game mechanic that developers overlook can be very good and a driver of a game but some are hurting the actual intended game play.

I mean we saw what certain systems have done to retail. Do we want players to feel obligated to use an unintended farming method to buy something on the market? the generated gold will not only change flask prices.

Where is the balance on a server that is very crowded.

And I don't think that people are asking for flask prices that so low that the last raid generates enough gold to finance the next.

Thanks for a wise structured reply. thants exactly my point.

[Jongyi]

There is a lot of ways to fix the economy but taking away other people's way of making gold and nerfing lasher is not a way here.
Plus, you don't speak for anyone

[Zahnfee]

I remember on nost i was part of the devilsaur mafia and we all got max gold within the first 3-4 months of server release... gold wont do shit if u aint got nothin to buy... the problem is people buying more then they need and hoarding! everyone will find ways to make gold for himself in this game and prices eventually will go up what we need is a way to have more supply then there is demand and that does not happen trough gold farm but with actual Out World farming! i had this idea of insta spawning nodes troughout the world on any node. basicly that anything can be farmed like leather by everyone... that way the supply would be decked and gold farm methods would be obsolete because u just hop on your farm alt go your round make your mats for raid within 1-2 hours of grind per week and thats it... you could spend your hard earned money for really important stuff like your mount collection, fashion and make low level hc gnomes fight your robot chicken! if every player can farm a stack of lotus each day there wouldnt be an incentive to make money to buy raid mats, instead players would go out and farm whatever they need and be done with it...

What im trying to say this is not the real world just give us unlimited supply of crafting materials and any given point of day and take it from there.