TBC & WotLK Abilities in Turtle WoW: Is it Degenerate?

[Manletow]

Is it inherently misguided and degenerate to implement TBC & WotLK Abilities/Talents/Changes/etc into Turtle WoW?

As far as i'm concerned TBC and WoTLK are still 'Classic' WoW. Just different 'flavors'.
Cataclysm is not 'Classic' as the changes it made were too severe/game altering.
Also it was just kinda cringey and bad.

Indeed, Turtle WoW is supposed to be "Vanilla" flavored but imo they can/should add *some* abilities if they are absolutely necessary to address severe gameplay concerns.

Think of it as adding "nuts and sprinkles" to our Vanilla cone.

For example, adding 'Shattering Throw' would address the incredibly overpowered nature of Immunity Shields in PVP
whilst simultaneously providing Warrior MUCH NEEDED Utility (it is currently a very "selfish" class that offers little to their fellow PVP teammates)

NOTE: Turtle WoW Devs have already implemented Shamans 'Feral Spirit" into T-WoW which is straight from WoTLK (just shorter duration). This ability was the final capstone of a Talent Tree btw.
(There may be other examples to cite as well)

So they are not entirely allergic to this concept.

What do you guys think: Woke or Broke?

[Whitewolf76239]

I support it, since it would help with faction/class imbalances and give a new learning experience in pvp and BGs.

[Burunduk]

Shamans have Bloodlust, Earth Shield, Water Shield, Totemic Recall.
These abilities are from TBC.
Trolls shamans have Hex, it's WotLK thing.
Tauren shamans have Spirit Link, it's close to Spirit Link Totem in Cataclysm.
There is also strange ability Calm Elements, i have no idea where it's from.

As we see, TBC abilities are ok as a part of your gameplay, but abilities from later expansion are racials or class flavor spells.

[Oomentaloo]

I think it's totally reasonable to look for ideas from TBC and WotLK.
From the devs point of view, they have to consider many camps in the player base and try to not go overboard. Paladin changes are very polarizing in the community for example.

I would like also to look back to Warcraft, I love the idea of bringing the Blademaster as maybe a spec into the game. But I know that would happening :D

[Luqj]

100% support, but how to balance and keep the class characteristics is a challenge

[Burunduk]

WoW went in wrong direction in WotLK, so we will never see abilities like Lava Burst or talents like Titan's Grip on Turtle.

[Chudman123]

They should definitely not add Titans grip but since they have buffed Shadow priest, all druids and all pallys they should probably help out rogues and prot warr.


Druids and pallys already countered rogues and they are buffed here when rogue is arguably worse than most vanilla servers.

Prot war prot pally and shields in general are very underused and could use some buffs imo

[Xudo]

Titans grip is not WotLK ability. It is Diablo 2 ability. Though it should not be added anyway, because fury warriors are not the ones who need a buff to their damage.

[Mac]

If it is a good change then make it regardless of what a future expansion did or didn’t do. A lot of it is stuff from WC3 anyways.

[Ataika]

Shattering throw is a good idea for warriors cause horde warriors are having problems to fight buffed paladins.

[Imonobor]

I think it's okay to look at TBC / Wotlk for ideas, as long as they are implemented in a Vanilla-friendly way. There are a lot of abilities, spells and talents that add great utility, QoL or flavor to the classes, with the ones I miss most dearly being the Mage's Spellsteal and Invisibility, which are actually spells from Warcraft 2 and 3. I wouldn't mind having them in my arsenal, but balance should also be considered, since mages are already pretty powerful. Maybe add them to the suboptimal arcane tree, or as racials, in the same vein how priests and shamans have racial spells?

[Zvyrhol]

It's already in the game. Maybe not all abilities but buffs from TBC specs were added to Turtle. For example shadow priest became mana-battery in TBC, here too. Protection paladin had big mana issues in vanilla, this was changed in TBC and now in Turtle. If I remember correctly hunter also received similar abilities to those from TBC. Burning Crusade balance is generally good inspiration for Turtle devs because this expansion didn't revolutionize balance of vanilla but refined it.

[Ataika]

Burning Crusade balance is generally good inspiration for Turtle devs because this expansion didn't revolutionize balance of vanilla but refined it.

They literally added TBC spell to hunters and made them even more powerful in full t3

[Glipo]

NOTE: Turtle WoW Devs have already implemented Shamans 'Feral Spirit" into T-WoW which is straight from WoTLK (just shorter duration). This ability was the final capstone of a Talent Tree btw.
(There may be other examples to cite as well)

fully disagree with this argument Turttle wow consider feral spirit they add as Warcraft 3 ability not as WoTLK one
and if u played WoTLK u will see how big diference it is between them
im not about to be toxic im about dont need to feed own hopes with wrong arguments
real thing they add from future expansion is a fearl ap on weapons
so may be we gonna see some more stuff who knows

[Harkus]

If you want to play TBC or WotLK then go play those expansions... I am very happy that Turtle has just taken abilities from WC3 instead of future Wow

[Manletow]

If you want to play TBC or WotLK then go play those expansions... I am very happy that Turtle has just taken abilities from WC3 instead of future Wow

fully disagree with this argument Turttle wow consider feral spirit they add as Warcraft 3 ability not as WoTLK one
and if u played WoTLK u will see how big diference it is between them
im not about to be toxic im about dont need to feed own hopes with wrong arguments
real thing they add from future expansion is a fearl ap on weapons

T-WoW has undeniably added stuff from TBC (Such as Earth/Water Shield)
but yeah I have not played Warcraft 3 i was not aware that 'Feral Spirit" came from that.

Hex also came from Warcraft 3 (then later WoTLK) but it works somewhat differently in T-WoW than it did in either of those games.

Yeah I guess you got me here -- I can't really think of much of anything (definitively) taken from WoTLK except as you said: Feral attack power stat

[Korval1]

Why are you asking for something you know the devs won't and can't do?

[Eversongwoods]

I dont want any abilities that were added in wotlk. TBC has some stuff i wouldn't mind though, warlocks should get incinerate for sure.

[Ishilu]

WoW went in wrong direction in WotLK...

Yes. But the problem were not the spells but rather how the game was tuned in general.
I like the philosophy of making every spec "viable" in tbc (I really hate that word) and I did like that gameplay was spiced up with additional abilities.

However, if a group of 5 random internet strangers above the age of 12 can expect to effortlessly clear a totally linear (heroic) dungeon without communication or knowledge of the dungeon location in the game world and solely by AE pumping (hate that word, too) trash groups without any tactical decision making or CC before performing a well documented boss choreography and being "rewarded" for a full run after less than 30 minutes then we're looking at shitty content, now matter the pretty graphics. And that was wotlk for me. And gearscore, of course.

As long as the turtle devs concentrate on making good content and tune new abilities so that they enhance gameplay and not only player power, I guess i's ok.

[Korval1]

WoW went in wrong direction in WotLK...

Yes. But the problem were not the spells but rather how the game was tuned in general.
I like the philosophy of making every spec "viable" in tbc (I really hate that word) and I did like that gameplay was spiced up with additional abilities.

However, if a group of 5 random internet strangers above the age of 12 can expect to effortlessly clear a totally linear (heroic) dungeon without communication or knowledge of the dungeon location in the game world and solely by AE pumping (hate that word, too) trash groups without any tactical decision making or CC before performing a well documented boss choreography and being "rewarded" for a full run after less than 30 minutes then we're looking at shitty content, now matter the pretty graphics. And that was wotlk for me. And gearscore, of course.

As long as the turtle devs concentrate on making good content and tune new abilities so that they enhance gameplay and not only player power, I guess i's ok.

The fact that most of the raid content created by Turtle requires attunement, unlike modern WoW raids, reflects their deeper understanding of the vanilla WoW era.

[Bigsmerf]

I'd like to see boomkins get their little tree buddies from TBC. Maybe some tweaks to it like mana cost/CD and duration could be added but honestly who would care? The spec is already very weak to begin with. At least with raw damage potential. OOH, maybe give them some sort of buff tied to the spell? That way your party gets a small boost just like you do. Balance druids and druids in general are pretty support heavy so this would be cool.

[Akos1896]

I mostly agree with a slight asterisk.
If we add new abilities for flavor/balance reasons and they buff a raid's overall damage/viability then enemies should receive slight buffs, too to keep up player vs environment balance.

[Steakhouse]

If you want to play TBC or WotLK then go play those expansions... I am very happy that Turtle has just taken abilities from WC3 instead of future Wow

Trueshot is just Steady Shot, hombre

[Hyrag]

add abilities from past expansions is wrong by the turtle wow design direction.

BUT
new mechanic or Skills that make the game better for everyone like 'Shattering Throw' (a way to deal with immunity shields).
talents that make "offmeta" builds viable in raids Example: A melee Expose weakness for melee hunter.
is good for the game.

[Bittermens]

If you want to play TBC or WotLK then go play those expansions... I am very happy that Turtle has just taken abilities from WC3 instead of future Wow

which abilities from warcraft3?
Only in your head

[Bittermens]

add abilities from past expansions is wrong by the turtle wow design direction.

BUT
new mechanic or Skills that make the game better for everyone like 'Shattering Throw' (a way to deal with immunity shields).
talents that make "offmeta" builds viable in raids Example: A melee Expose weakness for melee hunter.
is good for the game.

Go troll somewhere else

[Nablatidis]

Judging from some replies in this thread, I fear that some people wouldn't be able to handle much more in their ability toolkit and certainly not more than a 2-3 button rotation that classes have in vanilla. It's a dad game now after all

Adding abilities from WC3 isn't a good idea as it was never designed to be balanced between the classes.

I'm personally for adding a bit of flair to some of the classes that are lacking it. Just buffing some classes adds imbalance to either pvp or pve. Rogues for example is a class that's hard to add flair to without giving them too much, as it's already a popular class. But I still i feel the different builds are just three very similiar feel to them - what they could use is some utility or some AOE. Shadowstep, cloak of shadows or Fan of knives. Stuff that was always a favorite to use.
Resto druids are just boring with two heals.

I'm for this idea simply because I don't think a two button rotation was a make or break thing for vanilla. It was the open world, the danger in it, the massive scale and to some extent its rawness. But I can't help to miss some abilities I had in retail.

If it's classic+ I hope people are for the idea and devs have added some abilities already. So it might be possible in small steps.

[Hyrag]

add abilities from past expansions is wrong by the turtle wow design direction.

BUT
new mechanic or Skills that make the game better for everyone like 'Shattering Throw' (a way to deal with immunity shields).
talents that make "offmeta" builds viable in raids Example: A melee Expose weakness for melee hunter.
is good for the game.

Go troll somewhere else

No.
btw im not trolling
i really think that warrior needs Shattering throw as a unique utillity in pvp.

[Bittermens]

add abilities from past expansions is wrong by the turtle wow design direction.

BUT
new mechanic or Skills that make the game better for everyone like 'Shattering Throw' (a way to deal with immunity shields).
talents that make "offmeta" builds viable in raids Example: A melee Expose weakness for melee hunter.
is good for the game.

Go troll somewhere else

No.
btw im not trolling
i really think that warrior needs Shattering throw as a unique utillity in pvp.

As someone who plays paladin? yes

[Tendies]

No, if something from TBC or Wrath is good it's good.

[Atreidon]

TBC and especially wrath had very different design philosophies from classic.

In classic all classes have some innate weakness their class struggles with.
Warrior has no form of life recovery
Paladin is exclusively melee without good gapclosers
Hunter has his deadzone & melee weakness
Shaman has major mana issues
Druid can fill every role but has to choose pre fight due to gearing problems
Rogue doesnt have good aoe
Mages are flimsy
Warlocks have threat issues
Priests need a group to really shine

So some people suggest fan of knives be added to give rogue an AoE. Rogues whole class weakness is that he struggles against multiple opponents. I've also heard similar complaints from shadowpriests who want aoe. Not realizing shadowpriest is nummerically providing the most amount of output of any spec in a raid if you can make use of all damage, healing and mana he provides.

In classic people are meant to have class specific weaknesses. A DPS is not just a dps in classic. A Mage offers AoE dmg while a warrior can function as secondary tank. In wrath that was completely eroded and the game was different for it. Not better or worse, just a different game. And while i do think some abilities like the buffed vampiric embrace or intervene from TBC slot in nicely in Turtle

There are others i would absolutely hate to see. Paladins porno wings, The aforementioned Fan of Knives, Mind Sear, Victory Rush, Icelance, and many more do not belong in classic.

Then there are spells that do solve problems that should be remedied but do it in an un-classic way.
shamanistic rage & dualwield for enhancers were such solutions. dualwield and its overpowered supporting cast of talents did solve the dps issue of enhancer.... by completely changing the playstile of the class to something radically different from classic.

While shamanistic rage solved the mana problems of the spec. In tbc it is fine for a dps spec of a healer to have virtually infinite mana. Because the gear was much more potent and throwing heals as a dps was much less effective in TBC than it will ever be in classic.
In this last case i'd rather see the offensive manacost of shaman addressed than give him a button to regenerate a whole bunch of mana.

[Zulnam]

Shattering Throw in twow wouldn't make sense. Only one faction has paladins. Even with the new mercenary system where members of faction A can join faction B if the numbers are low, you will realistically fight more paladins in BGs as horde than alliance.

I think adding new abilities from TBC and WotLK can be an option, but it needs so much serious attention for each ability that it might not be worth it in the end. Even as a primarily pve game, abilities can affect balance (why take X class in a raid when Y class does everything you want and better)

But for example Shamans got the Recall Totem ability from TBC, and that is an obvious QoL ability that makes them easier to play. So it has been done.

[Thrallodar2]

Shattering throw will also impact mages ice blocks and they are in both factions.
I think it would be good for warrior to get this ability as it will add some utility for them in PVP.

[Wilczan]

Blazing speed for fire mages was nice.

[Charanko]

add abilities from past expansions is wrong by the turtle wow design direction.

BUT
new mechanic or Skills that make the game better for everyone like 'Shattering Throw' (a way to deal with immunity shields).
talents that make "offmeta" builds viable in raids Example: A melee Expose weakness for melee hunter.
is good for the game.

Go troll somewhere else

No.
btw im not trolling
i really think that warrior needs Shattering throw as a unique utillity in pvp.

Absolutley needs to happen