We get it, PvP server bad.

[Bigsmerf]

Now post something that isn't a doomer rant about how you were right from the start and the slowly dying PvP server would be a bad idea and all the PvP fresh classic neckbeards were fools to believe otherwise. Everyone's seen it at this point. Here, I'll even start something positive for you to work off of.


That new upcoming patch is looking good. Can't wait for extra goblin customization. Turtle team's doing a really good job and I'm grateful for their hard work. :D

[Dracarusggotham]

Now post something that isn't a doomer rant about how you were right from the start and the slowly dying PvP server would be a bad idea and all the PvP fresh classic neckbeards were fools to believe otherwise. Everyone's seen it at this point. Here, I'll even start something positive for you to work off of.


That new upcoming patch is looking good. Can't wait for extra goblin customization. Turtle team's doing a really good job and I'm grateful for their hard work. :D

I've even come to believe that my distaste for the PvP server was "blinding" me in a way and the server was fine and healthy.
But no, the server is slowly dying, many people say "2K is a lot of people", "Say it to Kor'kron's raids a week ago in Stormwind", etc.

Ok, Kor'kron raid to Stormwind...taking into account that the Horde is in the majority there and that, I emphasize, the Alliance zones like Goldshire are empty, a raid to Stormwind was not as complex as a raid to Orgrimmar.

The server is not doing well at the moment, and clearly many refuse to accept that the server has not had the success or the number of players that they were led to believe when they made post after post asking for a fresh PvP server and that clearly every day the number of players is decreasing. is reducing.

We'll see between now and January how the server continues, but currently, it's not a big deal.

Moving on to the patch:
I have hype for the new patch too, and I, as a damn fanboy of the High Elves and the Blood Elves (In retail I hate them but here their lore does agree with them), the new area and the possible discord and war What will be between Blood Elves and High Elves has me...intrigued.

[Bigsmerf]

Now post something that isn't a doomer rant about how you were right from the start and the slowly dying PvP server would be a bad idea and all the PvP fresh classic neckbeards were fools to believe otherwise. Everyone's seen it at this point. Here, I'll even start something positive for you to work off of.


That new upcoming patch is looking good. Can't wait for extra goblin customization. Turtle team's doing a really good job and I'm grateful for their hard work. :D

I've even come to believe that my distaste for the PvP server was "blinding" me in a way and the server was fine and healthy.
But no, the server is slowly dying, many people say "2K is a lot of people", "Say it to Kor'kron's raids a week ago in Stormwind", etc.

Ok, Kor'kron raid to Stormwind...taking into account that the Horde is in the majority there and that, I emphasize, the Alliance zones like Goldshire are empty, a raid to Stormwind was not as complex as a raid to Orgrimmar.

The server is not doing well at the moment, and clearly many refuse to accept that the server has not had the success or the number of players that they were led to believe when they made post after post asking for a fresh PvP server and that clearly every day the number of players is decreasing. is reducing.

We'll see between now and January how the server continues, but currently, it's not a big deal.

Moving on to the patch:
I have hype for the new patch too, and I, as a damn fanboy of the High Elves and the Blood Elves (In retail I hate them but here their lore does agree with them), the new area and the possible discord and war What will be between Blood Elves and High Elves has me...intrigued.

No, no, you're doing it wrong. You're NOT supposed to talk about the PvP server. Something different. How 'bout the last meal you had? Was it good?

[Dracarusggotham]

Now post something that isn't a doomer rant about how you were right from the start and the slowly dying PvP server would be a bad idea and all the PvP fresh classic neckbeards were fools to believe otherwise. Everyone's seen it at this point. Here, I'll even start something positive for you to work off of.


That new upcoming patch is looking good. Can't wait for extra goblin customization. Turtle team's doing a really good job and I'm grateful for their hard work. :D

I've even come to believe that my distaste for the PvP server was "blinding" me in a way and the server was fine and healthy.
But no, the server is slowly dying, many people say "2K is a lot of people", "Say it to Kor'kron's raids a week ago in Stormwind", etc.

Ok, Kor'kron raid to Stormwind...taking into account that the Horde is in the majority there and that, I emphasize, the Alliance zones like Goldshire are empty, a raid to Stormwind was not as complex as a raid to Orgrimmar.

The server is not doing well at the moment, and clearly many refuse to accept that the server has not had the success or the number of players that they were led to believe when they made post after post asking for a fresh PvP server and that clearly every day the number of players is decreasing. is reducing.

We'll see between now and January how the server continues, but currently, it's not a big deal.

Moving on to the patch:
I have hype for the new patch too, and I, as a damn fanboy of the High Elves and the Blood Elves (In retail I hate them but here their lore does agree with them), the new area and the possible discord and war What will be between Blood Elves and High Elves has me...intrigued.

No, no, you're doing it wrong. You're NOT supposed to talk about the PvP server. Something different. How 'bout the last meal you had? Was it good?

Yeah, maybe too much people is talking about it, right? Let's ignore the server and let's go back to the good ol' days of TWoW.

I had my breakfast and was good, was good.
Your opinion about the Blood Elves? You noticed they will have problems with the High Elves in the new patch?

[Blackbook]

I like the idea to spread some positive energy again! Clearly needed these days especially in the Turtle COM.

I dont like the upcoming patch. Sorry! I did understand the post but i have to be honest here. Goblins are terrible race and i could not care less about their starting zone. Armors look terrible too but they are not final yet, alteast that what i tell myself.

But to leave with sth. positive item changes and maybe even class changes have a chance to revive my Turtle Hype once more and ofc. i value the work they put in even if its not my bread and butter.

[Dracarusggotham]

I like the idea to spread some positive energy again! Clearly needed these days especially in the Turtle COM.

I dont like the upcoming patch. Sorry! I did understand the post but i have to be honest here. Goblins are terrible race and i could not care less about their starting zone. Armors look terrible too but they are not final yet, alteast that what i tell myself.

But to leave with sth. positive item changes and maybe even class changes have a chance to revive my Turtle Hype once more and ofc. i value the work they put in even if its not my bread and butter.

Yeah, I always prefered the ogres for the Horde instead the goblins.
But, for now we can only hope they will do a better job with the goblins in the future, have you tried them with the HD mod? maybe you can like them better with it, cause it uses the Cataclysm model.

The patch will include more things, like an update to Alah'thalas that will become a City, new zones like the Arthas base in the Culling of Stratholme, and more customizations for all races.

[Blackbook]

I like the idea to spread some positive energy again! Clearly needed these days especially in the Turtle COM.

I dont like the upcoming patch. Sorry! I did understand the post but i have to be honest here. Goblins are terrible race and i could not care less about their starting zone. Armors look terrible too but they are not final yet, alteast that what i tell myself.

But to leave with sth. positive item changes and maybe even class changes have a chance to revive my Turtle Hype once more and ofc. i value the work they put in even if its not my bread and butter.

Yeah, I always prefered the ogres for the Horde instead the goblins.
But, for now we can only hope they will do a better job with the goblins in the future, have you tried them with the HD mod? maybe you can like them better with it, cause it uses the Cataclysm model.

The patch will include more things, like an update to Alah'thalas that will become a City, new zones like the Arthas base in the Culling of Stratholme, and more customizations for all races.

More is always better one would think but i would prefer fixing the numerous issues first. And no time is money bla bla i just dont like em and no model will change that also i could not care less about a new empty starting zone. Sorry im super negative about it. We wanted to be positive so i hope for classchanges to be meaningful and fun!

[Tirias]

As i said here on the forum before the server launched, the "fresh movement" is a loud minority of trolls, waste of resources.

But i haven't played in some months and i have the log in screen on when i need to go afk to not trigger windows sleep mode, why is the playerbase down on the main server?

[Blackbook]

As i said here on the forum before the server launched, the "fresh movement" is a loud minority of trolls, waste of resources.

But i haven't played in some months and i have the log in screen on when i need to go afk to not trigger windows sleep mode, why is the playerbase down on the main server?

Over thousand people on peak 2k seems alot for a loud minority dont u think? The server needs some changes for sure but its not a complete fail like u imply here.

To the main server i would say maybe chinese transfer or the people that now play the PVP realm. A general decline in wow hype could also be a reason not to mention SOD sure some people will try it out.

[Tirias]

As i said here on the forum before the server launched, the "fresh movement" is a loud minority of trolls, waste of resources.

But i haven't played in some months and i have the log in screen on when i need to go afk to not trigger windows sleep mode, why is the playerbase down on the main server?

Over thousand people on peak 2k seems alot for a loud minority dont u think? The server needs some changes for sure but its not a complete fail like u imply here.

To the main server i would say maybe chinese transfer or the people that now play the PVP realm. A general decline in wow hype could also be a reason not to mention SOD sure some people will try it out.

We clearly disagree on the pvp server view.

You have logged in on the main server right? do you still get whispers with blank text due chinese and do you see chinese players outside everywhere in the world? if not then they have transfered, if you still do that is troublesome with the low pop, do you see them still?

[Whitewolf76239]

The Chinese ruined the pve server, and spergs spamming dead server will ruin the pvp one. Such is the state of private servers since 2010.

[Ataika]

Bro believe me pvp server is not drying there is no population decline slope


the new guy who trusted this and went pvp server

[Dracarusggotham]

Bro believe me pvp server is not drying there is no population decline slope


the new guy who trusted this and went pvp server

Don't show that graph here, they will get mad cause, "Believe me bro, the PvP server is healthy and don't has problems of population".

Let's see how is this sunday.
I entered the last night and 740 players online in Tel'abim and 4k in Turtle WoW...

I only see one server with problems here, and it's not the PvE-RP server.

[Vaikaris]

It's not just doomposting, its a desperate plea to fix the damn thing. Which is already too late, so now its a desperate plea to give us transfers or something so we didnt waste all our time.

[Vliqta]

It's not just doomposting, its a desperate plea to fix the damn thing. Which is already too late, so now its a desperate plea to give us transfers or something so we didnt waste all our time.

Turtle WoW wasn't build in a day, years ago it had only 500 people max online. But people who started playing liked the idea and sticked with it because it had something special to offer. I also believe the pvp server has something special to offer. The people who stick to play on this server will build up the foundation of this server. I believe, hope, in due time a stable pop will be formed. Yesterday evening it had 1.7k Thursday night. To my that is a good population that can function on its own.

[Vaikaris]

It's not just doomposting, its a desperate plea to fix the damn thing. Which is already too late, so now its a desperate plea to give us transfers or something so we didnt waste all our time.

Turtle WoW wasn't build in a day, years ago it had only 500 people max online. But people who started playing liked the idea and sticked with it because it had something special to offer. I also believe the pvp server has something special to offer. The people who stick to play on this server will build up the foundation of this server. I believe, hope, in due time a stable pop will be formed. Yesterday evening it had 1.7k Thursday night. To my that is a good population that can function on its own.

Turtle WoW had the foundation of a chill community that didn't have a classic mentality of rushing. Over time that won people over.

The PvP server has a 100% toxic classic mentality. Which will never attract people.

Don't forget also,tWoW was a labour of the devs adding new content, fixing things and making the right decisions as we went along. While the PvP server has been online for a month and they haven't even addressed the CORE issue of WoW vanilla pvp - horde racials. So, yeh. It could work. But it won't.

[Vliqta]

It's not just doomposting, its a desperate plea to fix the damn thing. Which is already too late, so now its a desperate plea to give us transfers or something so we didnt waste all our time.

Turtle WoW wasn't build in a day, years ago it had only 500 people max online. But people who started playing liked the idea and sticked with it because it had something special to offer. I also believe the pvp server has something special to offer. The people who stick to play on this server will build up the foundation of this server. I believe, hope, in due time a stable pop will be formed. Yesterday evening it had 1.7k Thursday night. To my that is a good population that can function on its own.

Turtle WoW had the foundation of a chill community that didn't have a classic mentality of rushing. Over time that won people over.

The PvP server has a 100% toxic classic mentality. Which will never attract people.

Don't forget also,tWoW was a labour of the devs adding new content, fixing things and making the right decisions as we went along. While the PvP server has been online for a month and they haven't even addressed the CORE issue of WoW vanilla pvp - horde racials. So, yeh. It could work. But it won't.

I understand that PvP attract different people, but you can't generalize this as 100%. You're are saying that EVERY SINGLE PERSON IS TOXIC, do you even know how toxic that is???

Anyway, all we can do and wait for them to update there plans for the future on the pvp server. Once they address the paladin issue things might change

[Thol]

The PvP server has a 100% toxic classic mentality. Which will never attract people.

I never liked generalization like that, all X are Y never sounds well. There is toxicity on the PvE server too. Also to be fair I agree that PvP servers attract more toxic elements than a PvE server.

[Reploidrocsa]

While pvp server is not for me, anyone who enjoys it should just keep playing and ignore those telling you what to do and what not to do

[Jc473]

Don't forget also,tWoW was a labour of the devs adding new content, fixing things and making the right decisions as we went along. While the PvP server has been online for a month and they haven't even addressed the CORE issue of WoW vanilla pvp - horde racials. So, yeh. It could work. But it won't.

I'm 99% sure there is one development pipeline. This means that any of these issues you are referring to will also need to be changed on the PvE server too. Other than introducing phases and disabling a few levelling modes, the PvP server was never going to be a bespoke design. There is no way that the TWoW devs would have wanted to fragment the codebase so they have to effectively manage two versions of the game. That's an overhead that a 'small' team will never willingingly choose to absorb.

We are one month in the server's life. Anyone expecting changes within this time (other than hotfixes) is kidding themselves. You are asking for deeper design changes which will take many months to implement. I really do think they will introduce changes but they will be probably be implemented in 2024 Q2. Will the majority of initial people have left by then, yes, most likely. But it was always going to be like this and here's hoping a small core of people do stay and have as much as possible.

[Korval1]

If I had liquid in my mouth, it would exit through my nose!

[Vaikaris]

Don't forget also,tWoW was a labour of the devs adding new content, fixing things and making the right decisions as we went along. While the PvP server has been online for a month and they haven't even addressed the CORE issue of WoW vanilla pvp - horde racials. So, yeh. It could work. But it won't.

I'm 99% sure there is one development pipeline. This means that any of these issues you are referring to will also need to be changed on the PvE server too. Other than introducing phases and disabling a few levelling modes, the PvP server was never going to be a bespoke design. There is no way that the TWoW devs would have wanted to fragment the codebase so they have to effectively manage two versions of the game. That's an overhead that a 'small' team will never willingingly choose to absorb.

We are one month in the server's life. Anyone expecting changes within this time (other than hotfixes) is kidding themselves. You are asking for deeper design changes which will take many months to implement. I really do think they will introduce changes but they will be probably be implemented in 2024 Q2. Will the majority of initial people have left by then, yes, most likely. But it was always going to be like this and here's hoping a small core of people do stay and have as much as possible.

There's zero excuse for putting out something broken and refusing to fix it because there's another thing to fix as well.

Everyone and their grandma knows horde racials are overpowered, which leads pvp to death because horde either 1) outnumber the alliance 2) end up taking ALL the tryhard pvpers, which means 100% winrate for them and 0 good fights/bgs. Or both.

This is an extremely simple fix, which would also benefit the pve that also has near 100% horde winrates, but they REFUSED to fix it. It's also someone everyone knows. Oh yes, horde whine about it, they'll say something about paladins now, but I know it, they know it, you know it, the devs know it.

Sorry but simply refusing to fix that is not ok.

And "takes months" is also not an excuse, this is fixable in 5 minutes, you can simply tune down a few racials, tune up a few alliance ones and you're done, this has been changed 5000 times in 5000 servers, including official blizzard changes, we know how and why and what.

And changes will fix NOTHING at this point, because the tone is set, its toxic and has the same problems as classic did, so it's over.

[Jc473]

There's zero excuse for putting out something broken and refusing to fix it because there's another thing to fix as well.

Everyone and their grandma knows horde racials are overpowered, which leads pvp to death because horde either 1) outnumber the alliance 2) end up taking ALL the tryhard pvpers, which means 100% winrate for them and 0 good fights/bgs. Or both.

This is an extremely simple fix, which would also benefit the pve that also has near 100% horde winrates, but they REFUSED to fix it. It's also someone everyone knows. Oh yes, horde whine about it, they'll say something about paladins now, but I know it, they know it, you know it, the devs know it.

Sorry but simply refusing to fix that is not ok.

And "takes months" is also not an excuse, this is fixable in 5 minutes, you can simply tune down a few racials, tune up a few alliance ones and you're done, this has been changed 5000 times in 5000 servers, including official blizzard changes, we know how and why and what.

And changes will fix NOTHING at this point, because the tone is set, its toxic and has the same problems as classic did, so it's over.

If the perception of the average PvP server enjoyer is that Horde racials are superior then, yes, you are right in that this faction will attract more tryhard pvpers. It's interesting though, you'd think these tryhard pvpers would've rolled on Alliance due to the current state of Paladins. Perhaps the typical Horde players knew about it and tried even harder to compensate?

As to why they released the server without any racial changes, I don't think it's fair to say there was zero excuse. I think the hype over the preceding months was absolutely palpable. They simply catered to the hype wave. I've said this to you before but I'll repeat it again.... How do you think the prospective audience would've reacted had they announced that they need more time to PvP design changes? I'll give you a hint, it wouldn't have gone down well...
Is the change as easy as you make it sound? There was a recent player made thread discussing racial tweaks and you can see that there was plenty of disagreement. I mean, if you wanted to keep it simple and just reduce the Orc stun resistance to 10% and increase Wotf CD to 5 minutes, sure, that would probably make a difference. But guess what? Now you'd have a bunch of people stating that Alliance are too strong because of Paladins which is a much deeper problem to resolve. To put it into perspective, a lot of people were dooming that the server would die soley based on the overpowered state of Paladins.

As for 'refusing to fix it', they haven't refused to fix anything. I guarantee you that they are listening to all the feedback and will probably make changes later down the line. Will this be too slow for you and a bunch of players? Yes, probably, but this has always been the operating rhythm of TWoW. They have made tonnes of wonderful custom content but it always take a while to implement. This was always going to be the trade off for the 'quick release' of the PvP server. Perhaps the players will learn to be careful for what they wish for?

Going forward, the population will continue to decline but I'm willing to bet there willl still be enough of a core playerbase. After the SoD hype dies down (perhaps in Q1/2 of 2024) and changes are made to this PvP server, perhaps it will make a slow recovery. But who knows, by that point, your typical PvP server enjoyer might assume there's no point because they've fallen behind....

[Mackylol]

Phase 1 has no content — the server will keep shrinking until phase 2 is closer to release. PvE or PvP, both game modes are essentially the same as endgame PvP in WoW is AV/WSG/AB.

Racials is the last possible reason why the server is shrinking. People were expecting world PvP to be a thing but you will never have that when you gain 200x the honor from battlegrounds.

Closing BGs or atleast capping honor gain from them would have been a step forward toward actual ideas.

Make contested zones great again.

[Xudo]

Closing BGs or atleast capping honor gain from them would have been a step forward toward actual ideas.

Turtle devs increased amount of required people to join. No official reason, but best one in my mind is to prevent people to stick to battlegrounds. It is effectively as "closing bg" and people complain about it.

From my observation, PvP server lost initial momentum because people expectations don't match to how WoW actually works. People really thought that PvP server features a lot of battlegrounds. While it is only about PvP flag behavior.

Other potential reason is that AQ40/naxx were announced and no alternative gearing paths were introduced.
Akalix announced some changes in PvP itemisation, but they are very vague.

I think we get "vanilla-vanilla" PvP server before any changes because devs somehow should understand, how good their changes are.
Imagine that you release a server WITH changes. Its population number dramatically fell down. How can you reliably understand what is the reason: original vanilla flaws or turtle changes?
In current strategy, turtle devs will surely know how good their changes are. If population will rise after release, then they are good. If not - you know why is happened.

[Trickyduck87]

I'm enjoying the current low and population because it begins to change how the world interacts. People trading more instead of selling for gold, farming is better and the people that stay are generally in it for the long haul. Dungeons are harder to get but the group are all round more reliable because people (especially dps) appreciate having a full group to be able to run a dungeon.

I'm enjoying it as it is and I'm confident population will eventually pick up.

[Dracarusggotham]

Bro believe me pvp server is not drying there is no population decline slope


the new guy who trusted this and went pvp server

So...the server is healthy, right?
26/11/2023:
Alliance: 1122
Horde: 1147
Total: 2269
------------------------------------------------------------------
3/12/2023:
Alliance: 685
Horde: 740
Total: 1425

844 Players less in one week...
My turn to sound sarcastic:

Bro believe me pvp server is not drying there is no population decline slope.

At least we can do skiing in that slope.

[Halason99]

Look at Everquest and Everquest 2 if you need to understand why dividing your player base is the stupidest fucking thing you can do on earth. If they had any brains at all they would have made a hardcore server which would remove hard core from the current server (players every single person hates because they are just a burden to us)

[Ataika]

Look at Everquest and Everquest 2 if you need to understand why dividing your player base is the stupidest fucking thing you can do on earth. If they had any brains at all they would have made a hardcore server which would remove hard core from the current server (players every single person hates because they are just a burden to us)

looking at HK death is fun