Global Announcement for World Boss Spawns

[Aubreykun]

There has been some contention about the ability for people to access world boss content, with some complaints being limited guilds hogging the spawns in the past, and the current situation of more, but still limited, guilds maintaining farm status over the spawns via organization, planning, and vetting. This is both more-open than a singular-guild scenario, but still maintains the issue of limited server-wide competition.

Given the facts that:

• Wboss loot is fairly unique and in some cases BiS for certain specs, and

• Access to interesting/unique/powerful loot by-design been gated by interaction with game content (raiding, pvp, reputation, professions, grinding)

• Exclusive, hard content such a the AQ Gate event has always been competitive between guilds

It stands to reason that world bosses should also fit this mould. Right now, the main breaking point seems to be knowledge of wboss spawns - an incredibly high bar that can't be reached by guilds who have the gear and size to take the boss down + ability to put up a fight vs other raids, but who do not have the sheer numbers to always be monitoring the spawn locations 24/7. For most wbosses, they are dead within minutes of spawning. It is also bad for the guilds that are monitoring the spawns as they must put immense amounts of resources in to maintain this, suffer reputation damage for the whole process, and be swamped by applicants due to this.

I think that a solution exists already to truly enable competition for World Bosses. It is one which I have seen other pserver devs use, as well as games like Diablo 4:

A global, server-wide announcement 15 minutes before a world boss spawns.

This amount of time provides 5-8 minutes for travel time from most of the major hubs, with adequate additional time for alerting offline guildmates or call for PUGs/friend groups, and for people to prep with their boss gear and consumables, respec if needed, and get into position.

And of course, this announcement should only show up for those at level 60 (or even 58 if you want to be generous). Such a limited announcement should be easy to implement, similar to how the shellcoin price only ticks for those who have one.

[Ashstache]

The coordinated farm and control of world bosses is supported by members of staff, it's not going to end. It's best to consider world bosses dead content and move on.

[Betraydog]

Why should it be considered that way though? It should be free for all. Just because its supported by staff does not make it right.

[Ashstache]

Why should it be considered that way though? It should be free for all. Just because its supported by staff does not make it right.

I don't disagree but good luck convincing them.

[Amptie]

The World Boss Alliance is not a closed or secret organization. Just ask them to join and you can do the content.

[Drubarrymooer]

The World Boss Alliance is not a closed or secret organization. Just ask them to join and you can do the content.

Agreed. It's not hard to get into. Pretty much anyone and everyone is welcome.

I prefer to wander a zone and randomly see that a boss is up

[Ayesha]

I personally would prefer Ony type of world bosses since this is not a PVP server, there is not PVP for world bosses anymore, and the only competitive aspect is how many players you can recruit to dominate the server.

And yes you can join if you like their rules and leadership.

[Balake]

I prefer to wander a zone and randomly see that a boss is up

This stops happening once a server surpasses 5k concurrent players.

Coalition doesn't make the world bosses any more accessible to the normal player with a regular playing schedule, it's still the same awful spawn rate blizzard made back in 2005 for its 3k population servers.

[Aubreykun]

The World Boss Alliance is not a closed or secret organization. Just ask them to join and you can do the content.

Dragonwatch is a controlled organization, that's part of the point of why it exists, and the reason every guild isn't a part of it. This isn't me admonishing them, they are doing what seems to work best for a system in the game that, as others have pointed out, was one of the weaker-designed points. I think the concept of world bosses is great, but EQ had issues with it that Blizz didn't really fix.

The overall point is that one should not require membership in specific player-run organizations in order to do content that is not created by those same organizations. As in, it's fine to require membership for player-devised events (such as RP scenarios, birthday parties, etc), but not world content or instance access.

My suggestion maintains the spirit of world bosses: A big mess of competition to try to take down the big dragon (or demon, etc.). Others have suggested things like instancing them. While singular-boss instances can be interesting - we have Onyxia and other expansions included their own - they are of a completely different character from a world boss and should not be designed similarly.

I will emphasize:

• World Bosses are supposed to be competitive.

• Their rewards and build-in difficulty are not, and should not be, several times what a raid is, despite currently requiring such a huge amount of people to organize in order to even see the mob in-world

• Access is currently controlled by knowledge of spawning, in order to kill the boss before anyone else can even try. While this isn't a perfect amount of control, it's still anticompetitive via circumventing the actual competition on-the-ground.

The asymmetry of information of spawning is a major key. In order for there to be true competition, an organization of similar size to Dragonwatch needs to form, and then players have a whole of three options (A, B, or ignore) instead of two. That still is not a good or healthy scenario. The fact a world boss is being taken down should attract even people who aren't there to kill it. People who just want to watch, people who want to PvP, people who want to root for one guild or another, and people who want to try to offer services and items for trade (selling consumables, for example.) Some currently do /yells in the zone which provokes some of this.

I will again just emphasize I am not admonishing Dragonwatch. I think they're doing what makes the most sense as a response to a flaw in the current design, and I don't doubt that the guilds in that coalition will still maintain the most wboss kills through their ability to organize outside of and inside of a raid and their sheer sizes. However, as it stands there's a disproportionate barrier to entry for even babby-tier Azuregos and Kazzak.

[Tendies]

The World Boss Alliance is not a closed or secret organization. Just ask them to join and you can do the content.

Agreed. It's not hard to get into. Pretty much anyone and everyone is welcome.

I prefer to wander a zone and randomly see that a boss is up

Lmao, stop lying.
It's corrupt af.

[Ayesha]

If people can use the system to their advantage, why wouldn’t they.

I think WBosses should be redesigned for the reality of a PVE server. My idea is make them instanced. What would be another way to do it?

[Ayesha]

Make them instanced but scheduled, so like you get 1 Wboss each week and they rotate. So it’s still rare and extremely valuable loot, but it’s accessible to people outside of 1 monopoly.

[Elisleris]

World boss is competition: who first detect his respawn, who call his friends to form a raid and who first killed him. You propose to abandon all those competitions?

[Ayesha]

World boss is about PVP I thought.
When it’s mandatory that you turn off your PvP flag before you can join the wboss raid, I don’t see how it works as intended.

[Ayesha]

It’s misleading and disingenuous to call the coalition of some of the oldest and most powerful guilds “his friends”.

[Drubarrymooer]

The World Boss Alliance is not a closed or secret organization. Just ask them to join and you can do the content.

Agreed. It's not hard to get into. Pretty much anyone and everyone is welcome.

I prefer to wander a zone and randomly see that a boss is up

Lmao, stop lying.
It's corrupt af.

Mmm...no. I've been in it since darn near the beginning and I know most of the leaders that run it. If you didn't get loot or got kicked out, that's not corruption. That's failure to understand the rules or not being understanding that mistakes happen.

However, you made a claim, so you should back it up with evidence and not empty statements.

It’s misleading and disingenuous to call the coalition of some of the oldest and most powerful guilds “his friends”.

Anyone is welcome to apply and join.

[Ayesha]

Great news if you agree to their loot rules and enjoy their company, and changes nothing If you don’t.

It doesn’t change the fact that it’s a monopoly and using the flawed system to someone’s advantage.

[Bittermens]

The World Boss Alliance is not a closed or secret organization. Just ask them to join and you can do the content.

Yeah... that includes having anal sex with the organizers to join in

[Thol]

Turning everything into instances, this reminds me of something. Open World content should be improved and augmented not removed imo. I like the idea of an announcement, it could be done with a roleplay flair. This would prevent a mafia from controlling it like it seems to be the case currently, it would also create some fun WPvP opportunities on the PvP realm.

[Alkberk]

The World Boss Alliance is not a closed or secret organization. Just ask them to join and you can do the content.

It's honestly astonishing some people don't realize the problem with a monopoly. What if someone doesn't get along with them for whatever reason? They'll simply be locked out of content? They have to kowtow to strangers in an online game? And there isn't even a way to contest it, the obvious would be enabling pvp but then there's the issue of crossfaction groups. Maybe there can be raid-based pvp when they figure out crossfaction BGs. It is worth noting that world bosses were always about competition, and while a certain group knowing the timers is part of that not being able to compete with them for it in case you also get the time right shouldn't be.
Instancing them would be drifting into fun server territory, removing the core idea behind wbosses - competition - just so people feel good about getting it. I'd argue in that case it wouldn't be as fun anymore just like getting free loot isn't, it's about the challenge and the journey, but to each their own.

[Tendies]

Mmm...no. I've been in it since darn near the beginning and I know most of the leaders that run it. If you didn't get loot or got kicked out, that's not corruption. That's failure to understand the rules or not being understanding that mistakes happen.

However, you made a claim, so you should back it up with evidence and not empty statements.

Lmao, I killed Dokka's guildless level 6 alt. Dokka is known as a corrupt cunt by everyone.

[Drubarrymooer]

Mmm...no. I've been in it since darn near the beginning and I know most of the leaders that run it. If you didn't get loot or got kicked out, that's not corruption. That's failure to understand the rules or not being understanding that mistakes happen.

However, you made a claim, so you should back it up with evidence and not empty statements.

Lmao, I killed Dokka's guildless level 6 alt. Dokka is known as a corrupt cunt by everyone.

Again, you've provided no evidence to any claim made.

Its strange how members of some of the oldest and largest, most well respected guilds...which do make up the core of the coalition...have no issues with him. Does loot drama pop up from time to time? Sure. That's going to happen with any raid group over time. It sounds like you're upset for some reason. I hope you resolve those reasons and have a good rest of your day. <3

[Tendies]

Mmm...no. I've been in it since darn near the beginning and I know most of the leaders that run it. If you didn't get loot or got kicked out, that's not corruption. That's failure to understand the rules or not being understanding that mistakes happen.

However, you made a claim, so you should back it up with evidence and not empty statements.

Lmao, I killed Dokka's guildless level 6 alt. Dokka is known as a corrupt cunt by everyone.

Again, you've provided no evidence to any claim made.

Its strange how members of some of the oldest and largest, most well respected guilds...which do make up the core of the coalition...have no issues with him. Does loot drama pop up from time to time? Sure. That's going to happen with any raid group over time. It sounds like you're upset for some reason. I hope you resolve those reasons and have a good rest of your day. <3

Lmao you want a colage of screenshots and convos as "evidence" or something?
You are a special kind of stupid aren't you?
Why don't you just go and ask them? It's that easy.

If I was as stupid as you I'd ask for evidence that the coalition welcomes anyone and is non-corrupt.

[Amptie]

Lmao, I killed Dokka's guildless level 6 alt. Dokka is known as a corrupt cunt by everyone.

Again, you've provided no evidence to any claim made.

Its strange how members of some of the oldest and largest, most well respected guilds...which do make up the core of the coalition...have no issues with him. Does loot drama pop up from time to time? Sure. That's going to happen with any raid group over time. It sounds like you're upset for some reason. I hope you resolve those reasons and have a good rest of your day. <3

Lmao you want a colage of screenshots and convos as "evidence" or something?
You are a special kind of stupid aren't you?
Why don't you just go and ask them? It's that easy.

If I was as stupid as you I'd ask for evidence that the coalition welcomes anyone and is non-corrupt.

you done? Only thing you do is insulting and talking about that you know everything. We get it. If i give you some applaus, will you stop continuing? I'll just try it. /clap

[Aubreykun]

World boss is competition: who first detect his respawn, who call his friends to form a raid and who first killed him. You propose to abandon all those competitions?

I think the competition on the ground - multiple raids competing at the same time, trying to wipe each other to finally get the tag + secure the kill - is the actual, real competition desired. The parts you have focused on don't involve player interaction, it's all a race against some unknown clock. My proposition is a feature that gives everyone the opportunity to contest a boss, something that is very difficult right now.

If people can use the system to their advantage, why wouldn’t they.

I think WBosses should be redesigned for the reality of a PVE server. My idea is make them instanced. What would be another way to do it?

Instancing them just makes them "onyxia-lite". The mechanics involved are build around them being contested in the overworld. The intention with my suggestion is to maintain this world-content focus. It's similar to why LFT is a group-finder, not a teleporter.

It's honestly astonishing some people don't realize the problem with a monopoly. What if someone doesn't get along with them for whatever reason? They'll simply be locked out of content? They have to kowtow to strangers in an online game?
[...]
Instancing them would be drifting into fun server territory, removing the core idea behind wbosses - competition - just so people feel good about getting it. I'd argue in that case it wouldn't be as fun anymore just like getting free loot isn't, it's about the challenge and the journey, but to each their own.

Exactly my point. I don't care about petty accusations, but the spirit of what is happening right now is simply current players reacting to a flaw in a system.

And there isn't even a way to contest it, the obvious would be enabling pvp but then there's the issue of crossfaction groups. Maybe there can be raid-based pvp when they figure out crossfaction BGs. It is worth noting that world bosses were always about competition, and while a certain group knowing the timers is part of that not being able to compete with them for it in case you also get the time right shouldn't be.

Wbosses have big AoE spells that can be taunted into unfavorable directions, as well as things like "when a player dies do a snowballing effect" and similar mechanics that can be utilized to wipe a raid. That's actually built into them, since they're designed for same-faction contesting as well. The problem may simply be that the server's rules of crossfaction pvp may need to be tweaked to allow for chaos surrounding wbosses, similar to how interfering with them to cause a wipe is not considered to be griefing (but doing it to normal mobs is.

[...]

[...]

Both of you, please do not flame this thread up. Provide input relevant to the topic if you have it. Tendies, flinging insults and accusations doesn't help focus on how to fix the problem. And Amptie, dismissing the concerns with "well anyone can join" doesn't cut to the heart: Nobody should have to submit their guild to a large federation of guilds to get the opportunity to enjoy world content.

[Ayesha]

Are you certain announcement are going to do anything?

Most of the geared players who are interested in the world boss content and can actually down it are already in the coalition. They are working on their DKP to get the items they want. If they join another guild’s attempt or a PUG, how would the coalition react? The experienced players who have done this content are going to say with the coalition, while new players can attempt to do it and wipe, and nothin will change overall.

I don’t think guilds can organize and amass enough the players online at any given time to be ready to do the content.

So I am highly doubtful that announcements are going to do anything, hence my preposition- instancing it.

[Tendies]

I've been server first to spot wbosses and announced it in world chat a while ago.
The other non-coalition guilds are so weak and pathetic (TABC etc.) they don't do anything.

The obvious solution is to have all wbosses PvP flag players. Preferably free-for-all flag.

[Ayesha]

PVP flags is at least making it into what it was intended to be, as many people here mentioned “competitive”.

I personally wouldn’t like that solution because I don’t pvp, but anything is better than a never ending monopoly.

Would be interesting to see if the Chinese will be able to contest the mafi... the coalition.

[Tendies]

Dude, the Chinese are on their way out.

[Jongyi]

This monopoly need to end. Everyone knows this so-called coalition is controlled by some big shots.

[Evilchocolate]

As I understand it, mafia members do not go to world bosses with a PvP flag. And if the administration solved this problem, then how to fight a raid consisting of an alliance and a horde? We just have to admit that this is dead content that is not available to everyone. Let the mafia have fun separately from the rest of the players.

[Williamson75]

I still prefer the idea of fast respawns and loot lock out. Having 1 group regardless of intentions or friendliness is terrible. On a pvp server it makes sense for pushing more pvp. The OG server is not pvp and there is alot of good gear locked behind these bosses that is bis for alot of classes. Not saying it should be easy kills or even increased drop rates but people should have a chance to face these different bosses and see the new things turtle has added to the game.

[Xerilin]

There are no perfect solutions for this, as world bosses are meant for original sized vanilla servers. Announcing spawns sounds like a way milder change than instancing, but I am not even sure a server wide announcement would stop Dragonwatch from being there first and getting the kill. I am kind of indifferent about all of this. World bosses being dead content is just a side effect of the server being way too full. At least with fewer members, a larger percentage of players got to see them. I know most people enjoy larger realms, so this is one of the prices to pay.

[Quidoba]

Honestly the best solution is to just nerf all of the world boss loot so that none of the gear they drop is anywhere close to being on anyone's BIS list.

World boss kills should be attempted for the experience and immersion of an epic and rare encounter. This should drive the competition down enough that even casual players can expect to get into the occasional PUG world boss kill.

[Xudo]

The only way this monopoly could end is pvp server without crossfaction. Two fighting factions just cannot share loot and they don't have reason to cooperate. As a result - we'll see competition between two different mafias. Gear will still be not-very-accessible for specific individual, but fights will be truly epic.