Revert The Brainwashing Device

[Pocas]

Yes please revert the change, the point of having this device was to try different talent builds according to the needs, now its the same to visit your class trainer.

more slots is good, but what if you want to try something new, its 10 golds if you dont like it, if theres only 1 point you want to change its kind of expensive. If you are a new player with a low level character, 5 gold is not an option.

Maybe 50 silver if you want to reset your talents points will be an option, 1 gold max but not 5.

Please revert the changes !!!

[Gnarbrok]

I agree with almost everything said above already. I do not think this is a positive change for the game since I cannot see what it accomplishes or adds to anyone's experience. In addition, it creates a barrier to players messing around with and exploring turtle's custom talents. The devs hard work creating exciting new talents is undermined by this; only cookie cutter specs will remain. I really do not care much for the spirit of vanilla; I much prefer the spirit of turtle. To me that has always been defined by exploration and experimentation, but this change only incentivizes keeping the same two specs for all time.

Also, given the posts above. it seems that the rationale for this change was economic deflation. If that's right, I'll tell the devs right now that even though I used the respec machine before to experiment with specs, I will never pay gold to reset specs - I have fury and fury prot saved already. So this just means more gold for this blotus farmer.

[Fizzler]

Revert the respec change please

Also some advice for devs:

Please stop changing the game when it is not necessary to do so. We seen this with the e’ko change, blood ring from 2v2 to 3v3, and attempts to revert scaling

[Moonlightdanc3r]

Hello Turtles. I'm actually new to Turtle. I have experience that there is a dual spec. I also found out about your “one talent point”. But that is not the point. I always gave the full talents (Which went up to level 24)

I bought the Brainwasher (for €), but at level 24 I realized that it didn't even ask me if I really wanted to spend 5 gold. Since I didn't know what to do, I spent my last 5 gold to deal with the brainwasher.

After 10 gold and a level 15 farmchar (which I had to play up because the brainwasher ate my gold).

I awarded full points for both specializations (well, not just one point).

Just been to Shadowfang Keep, previously re-skilled from Shadow > to Holy. Worked. Get a level up in the dungeon. Quickly award the point (but not saved in the brainwasher). I just wanted to do that because I had to.

Suddenly it says “Your saved dual spec have been reset”.

The question is: Is reskilling no longer free? Do I now always have to pay 5 gold (and as I heard, you can only do this 3 times with the 5 gold, after that it will be more)?

Then the brainwasher is actually garbage. Because if you have to pay every time. You can also save yourself that, why spend €20 if there is no dual spec at all.

It's not true at all that you can switch back and forth for free when I have to pay 5g (or more) after each level up.

I only have 4 gold again right now.

I just awarded my holy point. Saved in BW, but my Shadow specialization is gone.

I don't understand the point of the brainwasher. Does it only work at level 60?

I'm at a loss and annoyed. Because I was so happy about the dual-spec. 20€ flushed down the toilet.


//
I'm sorry for my excitement. I think Turtle is great.

best regards

[Oolaatris]

I'm really disappointed that this happened and with no warning. I think this change will really hurt dungeon groups and smaller raid groups as people won't have the flexibility to jump into another spec to help group comp without it costing gold. I agree that if the intention is a gold sink then let us buy more spec's to save, that at least would add some convenience to the gold sink instead of now having to still put in all the talent points but pay gold each time. Honestly if they added the ability to buy more specs to save while reverting to the old way it worked, I'd probably look at buying those slots just as a QoL thing. Overall this feels like a gold sink that really impacts some classes more than others and often those are not going to be the classes with huge farming ability (paladin being an exception but honestly I see druids swap roles more often than pallies and druids do not have the gold farming potential that pallies do). A gold sink that hurts group play and player creativity is not a good gold sink and I hope that the dev team is willing to consider reverting this change.

[Wafflecrusher]

Please change it back. No one asked for this 'fix', it prohibits people from playing the game the way they want.

[Queenoona]

My thoughts on the matter are that this is a negative for all players, from the minmaxers that want to swap multiple times in raid for better trash killing talents, the the most casuals who engage in lower tier content from time to time.
The original respec device allowed for me to save specs that were flexible and could be built into what my group needed at a moments notice, we lose a healer, I respec healer. We get a new one coming in, i go back to DPS. A Tank has to afk, thats fine I can quickly help out. My friends or guildies want to do some PvE/PvP content, not to worry I can spec for that.

It was a massive flaw in vanilla wow to make respecs so prohibitive and removing QoL like this is a strict downgrade. The only possible justification that I can think of that would make this change make sense if trying to introduce gold sinks and even that fails to hold up in my eyes because dozens of players are able to farm lashers throwing raw gold into the economy at a rate that far exceeds the average respec rate.

The Turtle team provides us many things, new content, new models, expansions on lore. A lot of really cool stuff. Which is why it always strikes me as strange when something like this is snuck into a changelog last second. The people designing this server aren't dumb and of course we're not always going to agree, but the same thing happened with ZG Crocs suddenly getting an update with no warning.

Hell at this point I'm expecting to walk into BWL one week with Nefarian Breath fixed unbeknownst to anyone.

There are a lot of reasons people are angry, but one we have seen a lot recently is failure to communicate. Not every change needs to be run by the players. But uprooting things that have been integral server features for years without warning is just sloppy and hurts players trust.

And the devs don't have to listen to players if they think the players are dumb. I'm just asking that the community is engaged so people can know their voices are heard or taken into account so that when the devs make a big decision like this they can site that forum discussion and address points and the reasoning why they did something.

[Elisleris]

I added also my vote to this suggestion. This was very good undocumented QoL improvement in game.

[Kastok]

My thoughts on the matter are that this is a negative for all players, from the minmaxers that want to swap multiple times in raid for better trash killing talents, the the most casuals who engage in lower tier content from time to time.
The original respec device allowed for me to save specs that were flexible and could be built into what my group needed at a moments notice, we lose a healer, I respec healer. We get a new one coming in, i go back to DPS. A Tank has to afk, thats fine I can quickly help out. My friends or guildies want to do some PvE/PvP content, not to worry I can spec for that.

It was a massive flaw in vanilla wow to make respecs so prohibitive and removing QoL like this is a strict downgrade. The only possible justification that I can think of that would make this change make sense if trying to introduce gold sinks and even that fails to hold up in my eyes because dozens of players are able to farm lashers throwing raw gold into the economy at a rate that far exceeds the average respec rate.

The Turtle team provides us many things, new content, new models, expansions on lore. A lot of really cool stuff. Which is why it always strikes me as strange when something like this is snuck into a changelog last second. The people designing this server aren't dumb and of course we're not always going to agree, but the same thing happened with ZG Crocs suddenly getting an update with no warning.

Hell at this point I'm expecting to walk into BWL one week with Nefarian Breath fixed unbeknownst to anyone.

There are a lot of reasons people are angry, but one we have seen a lot recently is failure to communicate. Not every change needs to be run by the players. But uprooting things that have been integral server features for years without warning is just sloppy and hurts players trust.

And the devs don't have to listen to players if they think the players are dumb. I'm just asking that the community is engaged so people can know their voices are heard or taken into account so that when the devs make a big decision like this they can site that forum discussion and address points and the reasoning why they did something.

I can't help but look at other projects like Epoch and see detailed and clear communication on X Y and Z changes or additions and wonder why Turtle not only just doesn't do that but outright pushes through tons of undocumented changes, some of them extremely impacting to the game.

In the future, if an update's patch list is changed or things added to it, can we at least get a "2023 — October 30 - UPDATED CHANGES." ?

Overall I think the new Brainwashing Device is a huge disappointment. Guts hybrids and people who like to experiment. Hurts newer or poorer players as does any changes related to gold costs. Discourages people to try out new things Turtle adds.

[Chyk]

Logged just to put one more post here.

Having a way to play different specs with device is very fun.
There are different specs within a spec often (Improved Inner Fire or Manaburn for Shadow PVP? Pure Smite or add Silence for PVP? Pure healing or add Smite for 5ppl dungeons? etc.)

[Zidis1]

As a warrior this is just pure dissapointment, I used the device in raids/dungeons to switch specs of what is needed, now im forced to have only 2 specs with no flexibility in talent points, im a fury warrior ocasionaly mt as deep prot and ot as fury prot, with this change i will only have the possibility of chosing one way of tanking because my ms is dps, im not pvp interested but imagine if i was, i will need at least 4 specs to play the game, and that without the flexibility of choosing between talents like improved thunder clap for aoe threat or improved heroic strike for single target threat depending on the sitation.

[Reploidrocsa]

it makes me real sad to see i can't reespec freely anymore and have to stuck on 2 specs. As hybrid i feels lees engaged to try new specs now

[Gantulga]

Not entirely sure why this is being fixed now, but if I were to guess it's because you want swapping specs mid raid to have a cost associated. Which is fair enough I guess, even if it's obviously going to be unpopular with those who spent gold on the device.
Would a compromise be to make respecs at trainers free? That way people can still experiment, and don't feel as punished swapping between specs to farm, pvp, do dungeons etc. While still having a cost associated with doing it mid raid.

This is a good idea that may fly with the devs.

[Ovaron]

Please revert, ty.
Another "Fix" nobody asked for like ZG Croc farm.

And while you are at it, what happened to stonescale pools?

[Xudo]

Hello Turtles. I'm actually new to Turtle. I have experience that there is a dual spec. I also found out about your “one talent point”. But that is not the point. I always gave the full talents (Which went up to level 24)

I bought the Brainwasher (for €), but at level 24 I realized that it didn't even ask me if I really wanted to spend 5 gold. Since I didn't know what to do, I spent my last 5 gold to deal with the brainwasher.

After 10 gold and a level 15 farmchar (which I had to play up because the brainwasher ate my gold).

I awarded full points for both specializations (well, not just one point).

Just been to Shadowfang Keep, previously re-skilled from Shadow > to Holy. Worked. Get a level up in the dungeon. Quickly award the point (but not saved in the brainwasher). I just wanted to do that because I had to.

Suddenly it says “Your saved dual spec have been reset”.

The question is: Is reskilling no longer free? Do I now always have to pay 5 gold (and as I heard, you can only do this 3 times with the 5 gold, after that it will be more)?

Then the brainwasher is actually garbage. Because if you have to pay every time. You can also save yourself that, why spend €20 if there is no dual spec at all.

It's not true at all that you can switch back and forth for free when I have to pay 5g (or more) after each level up.

I only have 4 gold again right now.

I just awarded my holy point. Saved in BW, but my Shadow specialization is gone.

I don't understand the point of the brainwasher. Does it only work at level 60?

I'm at a loss and annoyed. Because I was so happy about the dual-spec. 20€ flushed down the toilet.


//
I'm sorry for my excitement. I think Turtle is great.

best regards

From your situation I assume that you need to distribute points each time you level up. You don't need to reset talent points at a trainer all the time.

[Xudo]

Not entirely sure why this is being fixed now, but if I were to guess it's because you want swapping specs mid raid to have a cost associated. Which is fair enough I guess, even if it's obviously going to be unpopular with those who spent gold on the device.
Would a compromise be to make respecs at trainers free? That way people can still experiment, and don't feel as punished swapping between specs to farm, pvp, do dungeons etc. While still having a cost associated with doing it mid raid.

My bet is that reason to change was "people are trying to gather every piece of gear for every spec instead of choosing 2 specs and finding friends to fill the gaps".
or it was "people grind their t3 gear in pve and occasionaly jump to pvp and back with their overpowered gear".

Free respec at trainer don't help to deal with those problems.

[Nixors]

The realm wishes to please the younger generation of the player base as well thus it makes changes that favour their desires. However this game is supposed to be played by mature audience. The ideals of a vanilla realm shall not change towards conveniency.

I think this is objectively a bad take. To imply that only the 'younger generation' favors convenience is short-sighted to say the least. Especially when putting in perspective that we have popular mechanics such as LFT, guild house teleports, portable mailboxes, auctions and banks, all of which go against the grain of these 'ideals of a vanilla realm' you talk of.

Mechanics designed to inconvenience your gameplay do not, in any way, add to a positive or enjoyable gameplay experience, as evidenced by the changes mentioned above. So why cling on to them with these stubborn ideals, instead of asking yourself: What value does it add to the game?

[Sy]

They should at least add some more slots in for more specs.

At least 5. Preferably 10.

Charge a scaling fee for each slot unlocked, like bank spaces, if a gold sink is needed.

+1

[Vaelen007]

Have to agree with Sarenrae here. This is a massive QoL improvement that not only have most of the server gotten used to over a long period of time, but also a key feature that has probably been a contributing factor in drawing people to the servers. Please revert this!

[Flyingshroom]

Revert the respec change please

Also some advice for devs:

Please stop changing the game when it is not necessary to do so. We seen this with the e’ko change, blood ring from 2v2 to 3v3, and attempts to revert scaling

Yeah, or at least inform the community that you plan to change stuff.

[Xudo]

1) It's not a bug fix
This was a widely known and very popular mechanic that has been in the game for many many months. Painting it as a fix is disingenuous. It's a change to an established (though perhaps originally unintended) mechanic at this point. And viewing it through the lens of a change it's entirely sensible to debate pros and cons.

I don't see why it is ever an discussion point. Change was made. It has consequences.

2) It's in the Vanilla spirit! Specs are meant to *mean* something!
I actually agree with that. If you go through my post history I've said very often that I feel Brainwashing is one of the biggest departures from Vanilla on TWoW. It just completely changes the meta-game around spending talent points. The thing is - this is still largely the case. The true Vanilla spirit was that any amount of regular respecs would quickly saddle you with prohibitively large costs (50g per respec). TWoW still has dual-spec and a cost cap at 5g. So all this change does is inconvenience you and force you to pay a tax. Spending a talent point is still not anywhere close to the important set-in-stone decision it was on Vanilla. This is not reverting to a more Vanilla-like experience, it just forces you to farm for keeping flexibility and quality of life.

Main effect of important decision on talents is the gear.
If you decided to be restoration druid and you need to spend 50 gold to change spec, then you probably won't change it often. It means that you collect your gear for those talents. And more importantly - you don't collect gear for all other specs.
You are free from obligation to tank dungeons just because raid leader granted you some tanking piece of gear.
As restoration druid, you are severely gimped in your ability to farm gold alone. Situation was fixed by dualspec. You can make your main spec and in addition - secondary farming spec.

Similar effect with PvP. There are talents and specs suitable for PvP and PvE, but rarely for both.
So if you decided to choose PvE spec, you miss some vital talents needed for PvP. You are weaker than individuals who choose PvP spec.

3) Classes are affected to varying degrees.
It's quite evident that this is poorly targeted. The mage who wants a frost, fire, pvp, and aoe farming spec will be able to easily afford that luxury. The shaman who wants to heal and tank for their raid will have to pay to get into a dps/farming spec or to do some pvp. Generally the "pure" dps classes that are already the best at farming gold have the least need to save more than 2 specs while the hybrid classes that are generally underpowered in Vanilla need it most and have the hardest time farming the cost for it. Same with Main Tanks who have to prioritize raid specs over farming specs, getting saddled with additional costs over their already substantial bill.

It is very sloppy path. If you take "druids are more affected" then you imply that all druids always fulfill all roles. Like if class can fulfill multiple roles, he is obligated to do so.
Ability to bring second-third-fourth spec in raid doesn't increase effectiveness of any of those specs individually.
Rest of your argument boils down to idea "healers need to farm money somehow". This problem is addressed by second farming spec.

4) Features can change at any point on private servers.
It is true that one shouldn't rely too much on things staying the same. But this is something people have grown dependent on and have built their characters around. High-ticket epics have gone to hybrid characters with the expectation they will help the raid progress. If you have geared for healing and tanking to fill whatever role is most needed for the raid, you're in a bind now. Do you save a solo farming spec or a pvp spec? Or do you gimp/tax your solo experience for the benefit of the group that has kitted you out? This is a bad decision to force onto players.

If a group bound you with tank and healer role simultaneously, then this group should be obligated for something too.
If you picked supportive specs and left on your own doing gold farm, then leader of your group is irresponsible exploiter. And you are amenable simpleton.
You are can't be forced into full supportive roles without your agreement.
You should not carry all weight on yourself while this prick just plays his rogue or hunter or whatever he used to play.

5) It disproportionately affects smaller and casual raid groups.
If you're in a hardcore raiding guild with Naxx on farm where you blow upwards of 100g on consumables a raid, adding 20-40g will not break the bank and raid leaders will simply force players to do it, so effectively the "fix" changes nothing except push players to farm more (for which they have the gear anyway).
But if you're in a small raid, progress might depend on class flexibility. Like making the healadin tank on encounters with lots of adds and making the feral druid heal instead. And if you're in a raid group with no mandatory consumables, leaders will have a hard time asking for 5g respecs. It's just like the raid-scaling change a few weeks ago - it shoots smaller and progressing groups in the foot while the big guilds shrug it off.

You should not change spec every time when your raidleader asks you to do so. Spec is something that should be changed rarely. If raid or guild leader don't have enough people to fill raid, then it is problem of your raid leader. He should recruit more people. He should communicate with other guilds.
Playing single spec is normal.

6) It discourages experimentation.
It was a fun aspect being able to test out builds for certain encounters or compare builds or outfits. The change not only affects gameplay, it also makes getting information more costly.

That is the only argument I agree with. But assuming all other drawbacks of easy respec, it is not critical argument to change things anyway. Respec is 5g and it is very affordable price anyway.

I would like to ask the developers to reconsider the change. For now I'm not even sure what the big concern was that triggered the change, so it's hard to suggest solutions. Reverting them is just one way to go forward - I'm also open to adding more slots, adjusting the respec cost, adding costs or quests to upgrade your Goblin Brainwashing Device, etc. It doesn't have to be either the old or the new version, but I would still like to see some changes to lessen the impact on hybrid classes and smaller raid groups.

I would like to ask developers to keep that decision regardless of amount of whine on the forums.


Turtle key features are in leveling and horizontal progression.
Why would devs of leveling server encourage playing 10 different specs of your single 60 lvl character instead of leveling 5 different characters with 2 specs each?
5 different characters is 5 times more paid bags, portable banks, auctioneers, mails and so on.

[Olzie]

Please fix this back to the way it was.

[Elesion]

Main effect of important decision on talents is the gear.
If you decided to be restoration druid and you need to spend 50 gold to change spec, then you probably won't change it often. It means that you collect your gear for those talents. And more importantly - you don't collect gear for all other specs.
You are free from obligation to tank dungeons just because raid leader granted you some tanking piece of gear.
As restoration druid, you are severely gimped in your ability to farm gold alone. Situation was fixed by dualspec. You can make your main spec and in addition - secondary farming spec.

It is very sloppy path. If you take "druids are more affected" then you imply that all druids always fulfill all roles. Like if class can fulfill multiple roles, he is obligated to do so.
Ability to bring second-third-fourth spec in raid doesn't increase effectiveness of any of those specs individually.
Rest of your argument boils down to idea "healers need to farm money somehow". This problem is addressed by second farming spec.

If a group bound you with tank and healer role simultaneously, then this group should be obligated for something too.
If you picked supportive specs and left on your own doing gold farm, then leader of your group is irresponsible exploiter. And you are amenable simpleton.
You are can't be forced into full supportive roles without your agreement.
You should not carry all weight on yourself while this prick just plays his rogue or hunter or whatever he used to play.

Do you raid? A lot of your points strike me as someone imagining what raiding is like from the outside and not really how it happens. It's a group effort. There isn't some shadowy instance that dictates loot and what you have to do for the raid. You collaborate to make it happen. And so it's not a question of being obligated or even forced into a role, but rather taking up a role that's needed because otherwise your 20+ friends and you yourself might not get to enjoy the content you want to do.

Secondly there are just straight mechanical and mathematical facts that some classes perform better than others. If you have to pick a healing class to support a raid in a vacuum it's not going to be a resto druid. That's the original meaning of "hybrid tax", that because a druid *can* perform other roles, they're not as good at every individual roll. But in raids you generally don't use hybrid gameplay within any given encounter. This kind of gameplay is neither supported by gear nor by raid mechanics. So looking at individual encounters you are fulfilling "pure" roles but just worse. That's why Brainwashing was nice, because it made up for the hybrid tax in allowing you to switch between pure roles based on what the encounter needed. And part of Turtle's mission and appeal was to fix these pitfalls in Vanilla balance, to make hybrid classes more fun and viable in the endgame. It's not a question of being forced into playing as a hybrid, it's living up to your class' hybrid nature and finally being able to carry your weight.

Thirdly, a lot of the gear is incredibly specific and not all that competed for. Pala tanks, druid tanks - their gear is generally not usable by anyone else. And Turtle buffed or freshly introduced a lot of it. But that still doesn't mean palas or druids can measure up to warriors as general purpose main-tanks. But each of them has their niches, their encounters where they shine. So in general it's a very weird design decision to buff hybrid specs, buff hybrid gear, advertise making hybrids viable and then just nerf and tax their main tool of acting out that role.

Fourthly this is all well and good if it came as an initial balanced decision. But changing it after months and months, after people have geared and gotten used to playing a certain way just strikes me as being in bad faith. People have adapted to a reality that the game opened up for them. This is not just about someone changing their mind, this is about hundreds of people putting trust in the original design and building their characters upon it. It shouldn't be hard to imagine why this change comes as a bit of a shock and let-down.

You should not change spec every time when your raidleader asks you to do so. Spec is something that should be changed rarely. If raid or guild leader don't have enough people to fill raid, then it is problem of your raid leader. He should recruit more people. He should communicate with other guilds.
Playing single spec is normal.

As I've said (even in that post) I think that would be the Vanilla way. But that's not how it worked and still not how it works on Turtle. It seems like someone drastically changed the course. Again - fine as an initial design decision, but very weird as a late and random change. Plus it's half-way. Then go full Vanilla and set the respec cap to 50g, remove the Brainwashing Device completely (or make it donation-only). Then everyone is truly locked into their specs and it's just like it used to be 16 years ago. Hint: The appeal of TWoW as a Vanilla+ server is largely in the "+", in making stuff possible that Blizzard didn't do.
Also - again, this is not the problem of some guild leader, this is *your* problem because you are part of the guild and *you* want to do the raid encounters with your buddies.

[Ovaron]

snip

Nice post and all - but you are better with ignoring this guy. He does not raid here, he is against any convenience.
He has no understanding about anything beside his own agenda.
Next to all of his 900+ posts are a statement of his mind.

[Bimjeam]

It's just odd that it functioned that way for years and they changed it. couldn't of been unknown to them that it was being used in a way that they didn't intend to begin with but I'd say they probably got more sales due to the flexibility. Also, people more than likely bought it due to that (like me) and now it doesn't serve the purpose me and others spent money for. I enjoyed constantly swapping specs which spiced up the normal leveling experience.

Please, revert this change.

[Bittermens]

It's me!

I'll start off by drawing a comparison between what I and others used to be able to do versus what the situation now is.

For the past years, people have been able to enjoy PVE, PVP, open world content, and experimentation of their class at no cost, a quality of life feature that has been used to its fullest extent. We get to play around with talents we'd ordinarily never take, adjust to whatever we're doing, and have no monetary cost involved with exploring multiple aspects of the game. Now, however, there is a level of cost involved that, while not massive, does matter more for the individual over time. Someone who enjoys both dungeoning and BGing, for example, will now be unable to go between them without spending gold repeatedly or be forced to play a very poor build in one of them. This discourages players - especially poorer players - from exploring multiple facets of Turtle.

I get it, it's a minor gold sink and a 'bug fix'. I refuse to believe you only just recently heard of it and are fixing it exclusively on the grounds of it being a bug, so my argument will be against the design philosophy of changing it. Dropping a QOL feature we've all enjoyed and become used to under the justification of economic deflation - which, compared to Classic and Classic Era, we're doing fine - is counterintuitive to player enjoyment and player convenience. This falls back into the habit of previous decisions the server has been criticized on: the initial e'ko changes, the raid scaling adjustments, and others. Something like this fundamentally counts as a big change because of how ingrained it has become in the level 60 community on Turtle, and you've stripped us of convenience and now charge us for it. We've got enough gold sinks and the GM team does a fantastic job culling ill-gotten gold.

There's no reason to remove a massively appreciated convenience to cheapen the cost of a flask by a couple silver. You'll just isolate people who would ordinarily do much more to stick to their niches; raiding, PVP, dungeoning, et cetera. Not everyone farms a gold stockpile and not everyone stays in the same two specs for a week.

This is what happens when you let Dragunovi and his friends lead the changes
Everyone warned about it even at chans and discord, but here we are.
Changes are now being made not for the general playerbase in general, but for a small illuminati at the server who God knows who's who friends with them at the administration level.

also all of the gear right now, even classes("Paladins", Hunters, Shamans and Druids) and itemsets are terrible and with stats and bonuses all over the place.

and yet they come with this change that fucks new and old players even more at raid level.

[Snnail]

changing in a not good way~ go back plz

[Norseric]

I know this is now considered "fixed" but it's been broken for so long its kind of a stab at the heart for you devs to do this now. This was not at the fault of the players but your team. We the players have adopted it into our way of playing, how raids are organized, how people play etc.
Bottom line this was a dick move to do at this point in time. If your goal was to finally fix this mechanic (if it was in fact broken) then you should have added a compromise like the ability to save a third spec.

[Tlwdssd]

the way the brainwashing machine was implemented was actually a benefit because it allowed people to play the game how they wanted whenever they wanted. I understand how it was not intended to work that way but the change they did to "fix" it broke it for people leveling and made it annoying for people at max level to play how they want. I support the idea to revert the change until a better solution is found or just keep it as is because it makes the overall game more fun. Theres been a few changes recently that have made me question if im wasting my time on this game because for me a game is suppose to be FUN and thats playing the spec i want at a given time and not feel like im being punished for it.

[Ashstache]

One of several questionable and negatively impacting decisions that comes at a fairly poor time, as well. Not the death of the server by any means, but people will literally play the game less, now, and the dissatisfaction that builds will lead us elsewhere. I don't know what message to receive from this change other than "we don't want you to play here any more".

[Jpcaixiao]

Please revert！

[Xudo]

One of several questionable and negatively impacting decisions that comes at a fairly poor time, as well. Not the death of the server by any means, but people will literally play the game less, now, and the dissatisfaction that builds will lead us elsewhere. I don't know what message to receive from this change other than "we don't want you to play here any more".

We both know that you will keep playing here anyway.

[Paw]

The realm wishes to please the younger generation of the player base as well thus it makes changes that favour their desires. However this game is supposed to be played by mature audience. The ideals of a vanilla realm shall not change towards conveniency.

I think this is objectively a bad take. To imply that only the 'younger generation' favors convenience is short-sighted to say the least. Especially when putting in perspective that we have popular mechanics such as LFT, guild house teleports, portable mailboxes, auctions and banks, all of which go against the grain of these 'ideals of a vanilla realm' you talk of.

Mechanics designed to inconvenience your gameplay do not, in any way, add to a positive or enjoyable gameplay experience, as evidenced by the changes mentioned above. So why cling on to them with these stubborn ideals, instead of asking yourself: What value does it add to the game?

It is the staff's decision. I joined this community because I like their ideals. I support them since they remain true. Whether a change is valuable to one person or not is subjective. And hello! since a greeting should be in order when you are addressing someone you do not know on a personal level.

[Lukzak]

One of several questionable and negatively impacting decisions that comes at a fairly poor time, as well. Not the death of the server by any means, but people will literally play the game less, now, and the dissatisfaction that builds will lead us elsewhere. I don't know what message to receive from this change other than "we don't want you to play here any more".

We both know that you will keep playing here anyway.

There are other options now, one of which is actually a Euro/German server that opens tomorrow. They even have Nolin working with them. Turtle doesn't have a monopoly on quality vanilla+ anymore. I just don't understand why they are making so many dumb decisions recently when that is the reality.

[Xudo]

I just don't understand why they are making so many dumb decisions recently when that is the reality.

Probably because online is too high to manage. They can afford to lose some people. They also can't please everyone. If you do any change, then someone will be disappointed. The more players total, the more players will be.
Those recent nerfs are not that important to 99% of players as you might think. There are a lot of complaints, but it is from small minority of those who were aware of those exploits.