2023 — October 30

[Kopey]

• Brainwashing Device will no longer saves specs with unspent Talent Points.

Glad I donated for this just for it to be nerfed thanks Turtle, Can't wait for the 36 slot bags to get nerfed into 25 slot bags!

[Kharkov72]

some of these changes are very nice, the vial is a bit overnerfed imo but it was way too fucking good
why change the brainwashing device though? what exactly does this do that's positive, other than make a gold sink when in reality its just going to make swapping specs for pvp, specific fights like tanking twins, etc feel like shit? like, why?

[Ugoboom]

ITT: oh nooo i cant exploit the game anymore with free infinite respecs on a device that was advertised as only 2 free specs

The game needs more gold sinks and this is one of many that we need to see.

[Ashstache]

ITT: oh nooo i cant exploit the game anymore with free infinite respecs on a device that was advertised as only 2 free specs

The game needs more gold sinks and this is one of many that we need to see.

how much gold do you have Zaas

[Forthehorde]

I don't understand the complaints regarding the brainwashing device.
I just used mine, and it seems to work the same as before:

Before:
- costs 5g to respec
- saves 2 specs
- can be used anywhere
- 5 minute cooldown

After:
- costs 5g to respec
- saves 2 specs
- can be used anywhere
- 5 minute cooldown

No difference. The only new requirement I see is ALL of your talent points must be applied (rather than just some of your talent points).

Were the respecs free at some point? According to this July 4, 2021 announcement (viewtopic.php?t=1867), the device was released into the game with a 5g cost to respec. Capped at 5g regardless of uses. Which is the same as today.

Or am I missing something?

[Rowrow213]

ITT: oh nooo i cant exploit the game anymore with free infinite respecs on a device that was advertised as only 2 free specs

The game needs more gold sinks and this is one of many that we need to see.

"Oh no, people are enjoying playing the game in a way much more relaxed than before, now that I've been a naxx raider for a while I say fuck everyone else. Hybrid classes? Screw them, they should play warrior or priest." -Zaas, 2023

[Rowrow213]

The change to the brainwashing device affects hybrid classes the most. Druids won't be able to flex more comfortably, same as shamans and paladins.

[Kastok]

This hurts hybrid specs more than anything, ones which already struggle. If you're going to intend to buff hybrids with more viability via future changes and itemization, then at least put this change out during that time please.

Respec costs have always been a bad thing in WoW imo. It does not encourage experimenting or being flexible or simply just playing the game how you wish to play it.

This is a bad way to create a gold sink if that is the intended idea. It already costs 350g to begin with.

[Ashstache]

I don't understand the complaints regarding the brainwashing device.
I just used mine, and it seems to work the same as before:

Before:
- costs 5g to respec
- saves 2 specs
- can be used anywhere
- 5 minute cooldown

After:
- costs 5g to respec
- saves 2 specs
- can be used anywhere
- 5 minute cooldown

No difference. The only new requirement I see is ALL of your talent points must be applied (rather than just some of your talent points).

Were the respecs free at some point? According to this July 4, 2021 announcement (viewtopic.php?t=1867), the device was released into the game with a 5g cost to respec. Capped at 5g regardless of uses. Which is the same as today.

Or am I missing something?

you were previously able to spend a single point into a commonly used tier 1 talent and save that as a spec, so each time you activated it you could spend all the other points, giving you in effect a free respec

[Forthehorde]

you were previously able to spend a single point into a commonly used tier 1 talent and save that as a spec, so each time you activated it you could spend all the other points, giving you in effect a free respec

Clever exploit. So now it's working as originally intended.

Thanks for the explaination.

[Reignwizard]

I guess after a year, honeymoon is finally over.

nerf after nerf after nerf..

I'm very pessimistic with upcoming class changes. instead of buffing weak spec/class they probably heavy nerf everyone so every spec/class is equally weak hahaha

well I have a good time here. till we meet again

[Kastok]

you were previously able to spend a single point into a commonly used tier 1 talent and save that as a spec, so each time you activated it you could spend all the other points, giving you in effect a free respec

Clever exploit. So now it's working as originally intended.

Thanks for the explaination.

If they saw it as an exploit they never spoke up about it and have had PLENTY of time to change it before.

[Jstansberry]

If the server needs more gold sinks then please implement it somewhere else. Talent respecs were never a good gold sink because it punishes experimentation and locks you into doing PvP or PvE. Isn't the device costing 350g on it's own a decent gold sink? It's something every character that reaches level 60 will aim for. Other than that, the server has been out for 5 years and the economy is still quite healthy.

If the problem is that there are too many people who have been playing for 3+ years and have too much gold saved up, then implement gold sinks for those kinds of players instead of targeting literally everyone. "Fixing" the brainwashing device is something literally no one wants and is not an effective gold sink. Wealthy players are unaffected by this but now hybrid classes have a 5g deficit to make up for whenever they switch to a damage spec to farm or PvP.

I have a suspicion that the same people on the team that were pushing for the removal of raid scaling are pushing for this...

Making content less accessible is not following "the spirit of vanilla", it's just gatekeeping. Putting together a raid of 40 people is a lot easier for players who are further progressed, and a 5g respec fee is worth a lot more for players who are not very progressed. Many people like Turtle so much because it has so many of these accessibility and QoL improvements that don't cheapen gameplay, like scaling and easy respeccing.

[Rowrow213]

Keep in mind it never tells you that reseting your spec through the device will take gold from you. You could pay 350g for it or irl money for it and it would never tell you.

EDIT: It does say so, I am blind

[Xudo]

• Brainwashing Device will no longer saves specs with unspent Talent Points.

This will kill non meta specs in raiding.

How exactly?
I mean, you don't have to switch specs during boss fight. You choose talents and play with them.
You still can make 1 meta spec and 1 experimental spec.

Ability to switch talents alone doesn't increase your DPS or healing.

ITT: oh nooo i cant exploit the game anymore with free infinite respecs on a device that was advertised as only 2 free specs

The game needs more gold sinks and this is one of many that we need to see.

I didn't noticed brainwashing change initially. Lol. Though I support it.
Normal player don't respecs so often. You usually choose your talents and play with them.
Talents in Vanilla were not supposed to change as easily as gear.
Only those naxx farming minmaxers used to push this limit beyond absurd.

[Kodama024]

Why would they nerf the brainwash devise now.
As a druid i need to have 4 specs rdy for every role.
Fuck this hybrid tax.

[Melonwow]

The change to the brainwashing device affects hybrid classes the most. Druids won't be able to flex more comfortably, same as shamans and paladins.

my Rogue has even 4-5 specs:
pvp, pve, solo
Dagger or Sword or Mace

I just got the device two days ago....
I am happy to know if Turtle Team can rollback it
This nerf really decrease my gameplay exp a lot a lot.........

[Forthehorde]

Seems that paying 350g (or donating $ the server), would earn (buy) the right to respec without additional cost. A nice QOL feature, just like the remote bank, auction house, and vendor buddies. And those don't cost gold-per-use.

It's not pay-to-win and only adds more enjoyment to the game, which makes people play longer, which creates more opportunities for Twow to make more money.

[Borefficz]

• Potent Venom now stacks only 2 times, and the damage per tick has been increased to 30.

Is the tick rate back to 2 seconds, or will it remain at the stealthnerfed 3 seconds?
On a sidenote how can you nerf an item by 47% and not include the change in the patch notes?

That item was never supposed to be a top tier dps item, it drops in a 10man raid dungeon and shouldn't be more powerful then Naxxramas trinkets.

That's not the point.

[Zrsssss]

Brainwashing Device will no longer saves specs with unspent Talent Points.
This one is a terrible change. As a mage I often had to choose between using a blizzard slowdown and not using a monster's stats. I used to be able to save those talent points for the flexibility to learn when needed. Now I have to reclick it 50 times to learn this change is really bad.

[Tseer]

Brainwashing Device was purchased by many people with real money and gold in game with the express intent of it working as it has for so long. I certainly would not have purchased it otherwise. I imagine many people feel the same.

People can be cute pretending that this device wasn't well-known(staff and players) for operating as it has for quite some time while it raked in cash into the donation shop based on that expectation and claim it was "exploited".

Poor decision. Hopefully, they remedy it in some way.

[Xudo]

Brainwashing Device was purchased by many people with real money and gold in game with the express intent of it working as it has for so long. I certainly would not have purchased it otherwise. I imagine many people feel the same.

From this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11356
You can fill ingame ticket to get refund if you bought for tokens.

EDIT: I put an in-game GM ticket and they responded in about 1 minute (impressive!) We had a chat and he offered a refund since I just bought it.

BWD still gives you 2 specs and that functionality remains. If you really want to discard it, then you have right to do so.

[Mcpewpew]

Okay, you've ruined the Brainwashing device....so let me buy upgrades for it.
500g for a 3rd, 1000g for a 4th?

Just do it.

[Nickgreyden]

• Brainwashing Device will no longer saves specs with unspent Talent Points.

The comments that this is a hybrid tax is very real. It hurts raid composition as well as endgame dungeon runs too as classes like druids and paladins will have to decide if they want to be tank spec or heal spec for their secondary talents as everyone wants/needs a dps spec. No more playing around with specs to try to find new fun ones to play. No more trying out the new talents changes either as it becomes costly to attempt.

However, it doesn't just affect hybrids (though, once again, they got hit the hardest). Can't really do MC as a mage in fire spec, but AQ and Naxx it is the way to go. So if you get a fire and frost spec that is great, but no more arcane/frost spec. No more mana battery spec. No more PvP spec. No more goblin tech spec. And god forbid you want to play around with an AoE spec or just work out something else. No more deep prot warriors for tough raid fights like Twin Emps either as everyone will be furry prot if they aren't straight dps and pvp builds. I have no idea what dev thought this was a good idea and decided to implement it. May god have mercy on those poor souls trying to get four horsemen kills. Someone really dropped the ball on this one.

[Xudo]

No more PvP spec [for PvErs].

I believe that ability to easily switch to PvP spec from PvE was one of the nails in the coffing of Turtle PvP.
Naxx raiders could easily bring their gear to battleground at no cost and bash new players with their owerpowered gear.

Now switching has small tax. Now you have to pay 10g to switch PvP and back. I believe not every raider would pay that price just for occasion. So less t3 guys in battlegrounds and it is good.

[Krotux]

Brainwashing Device will no longer saves specs with unspent Talent Points.

Finally talents mean something again

[Krotux]

I heard people that got the herbal tea before the update still gets to have unlimited charges, not sure if its true

[Kastok]

No more PvP spec [for PvErs].

I believe that ability to easily switch to PvP spec from PvE was one of the nails in the coffing of Turtle PvP.
Naxx raiders could easily bring their gear to battleground at no cost and bash new players with their owerpowered gear.

Now switching has small tax. Now you have to pay 10g to switch PvP and back. I believe not every raider would pay that price just for occasion. So less t3 guys in battlegrounds and it is good.

Well, Turtle is a PvE-RP server that has always had PvE content in mind first and foremost. Respecs having a gold cost hampers experiencing PvE content in a totally needless way.

PvPers can enjoy their brand new ~fresh~ server.

Turtle is a server with practically infinite rested xp and extra travel options and training dummies to grind weapon skills on and a myriad of other things that don't make it ~vanilla~. They make it better.

It's fantastic the BWM exists, and its great that respec is capped at 5g.

But I'd rather there just be no respec fee at all. Turtle adds in new spells and abilities and items on top of the vanilla game that BEG you to try them out and experiment and have fun. Why make it inconvenient in a way that adds nothing to the game? The way BWM worked before was good enough.

[Blackduck]

• Brainwashing Device will no longer saves specs with unspent Talent Points.

A literal hybrid tax. They actually introduced a literal hybrid tax. If you want to heal, dps *and* tank you have to keep paying for it? Why single out certain classes?
And why change it after so long? <.< This is like removing raid-scaling all over again. Just yank a beloved unique feature for no goddamn reason.

Yeah I play multiple specs as I'm a priest and was lucky enough to get the gear for both shadow, smite and healing during my time playing and I loved being able to bounce between them. That's not just 3 specs btw because each one has a different pvp spec. I also had gear for tanking twins as a shadow priest and that had it's own spec. I was already thinking about quitting before this but I might do it permanently now. I'm sorry I really don't like farming gold all day just getting consumes for naxx/pvp was bad enough.

[Resonanc3]

• Brainwashing Device will no longer saves specs with unspent Talent Points.

That is one of the worst nerfs that Turtle WoW did lately. This change will mostly affect only hybrid classes, such as druids and paladins, making them less popular in the community. I don't feel like this is a good way to change class ratio towards less popular ones. Personally, as a Naxx raiding holy paladin, I would have to pay 10 more gold each time I prepare consumables, which means I would need to spend more time playing the game just for raid preparation, not mentioning spending 5g each time I want to change talents before each raid to provide all possible buffs depending on the number of paladins in the raid, and thus support as much as I could. Thanks, Turtle WoW team, for this "incredible" change!

[Mrteegee]

ITT: oh nooo i cant exploit the game anymore with free infinite respecs on a device that was advertised as only 2 free specs

The game needs more gold sinks and this is one of many that we need to see.

"Oh no, people are enjoying playing the game in a way much more relaxed than before, now that I've been a naxx raider for a while I say fuck everyone else. Hybrid classes? Screw them, they should play warrior or priest." -Zaas, 2023

You missed out based bro at the end

[Bert47]

literally had to go broke today on the new server just to respec out of a prot dungeon tanking spec back to a solo spec. disappointing.

[Dangboyy]

BWD change brings nothing but more pointless grind for those players that dont have that much time to play and can squeeze one raid or so a week. Doesnt add anything more fun or interesting other than wasting players time to force you to grind everytime u want to play just for fun. Not everyone plays this game like Dated does. (21 hours a day). Especially after grinding to buy this item, and then it getting changed to this. It has worked like this for very long time and makes no sense to change so suddenly without letting players choose. It worries which way TWOW is heading nowadays. Hope to get this change reverted. It doesnt punish the min maxers, but it punishes the dad gamers, those who are glad to get on and play for few hours. Now within those few hours u gotta min max your specs and your gold instead of just logging on whenever you are able to and just do whatever u feel like doing be it farming, pve or pvp, dungeons. Not to mention the limitation to your role, so you can choose 2 things and be it pvp or pve and one role with that. Bad change imo.

[Pocas]

Brainwashing Device will no longer saves specs with unspent Talent Points.

Why making an excellent item useless, please revert the changes to the braingwashing device, you're betraying your supporters and people who is having fun, I think no one was getting hurt the way the device worked,

Please make the Goblin Brainwashing Device great again !!!

[Alexj]

• Brainwashing Device will no longer saves specs with unspent Talent Points.

This will kill non meta specs in raiding.

Also kills the fun to test several new specs and combinations of hybrid specs. big dislike for it :(

Agreed!!!