Why is Multiboxing Banned for PvP?

[Jolikmc]

This is something I've started wondering about. I don't think anyone's really given a solid explanation as to why things are this way beyond "because they say so".

So… why is multiboxing banned for PvP? And, by logical proxy, why isn't multiboxing banned for PvE?

Remarkably brief topic from me, I know, but I'm trying to open a discussion rather than give an opinion.

[Balake]

this is why multiboxing is banned in pvp. Dualboxing is the exact same problem as multiboxing 3 or 5 or even 10 characters, the only difference is the size of the advantage you're getting.

Multiboxing isn't banned in pve for historical reasons, the server used to be a 50-200 pop server for years, multiboxing was a draw for a niche community and a way for the small population to do some group activities that were too hard to find a group for with that population.

Because the server evolved and grew around multiboxing as a mold, it would feel very bad for the dedicated members that have been here for years and loved multiboxing to remove it entirely.

[Xudo]

Multiboxing can be allowed in PvE because there are some cases when multiple persons play from single IP address (but different PCs)
Imagine you have a girl and you want to play with her in warcraft.

[Eoruk]

Because in a game, you agree to be bound to a set of rules with other players. Those rules also state the victory condition(s). A player that wouldn't aim for victory is actually not playing the game (for example : when someone don't fight back). In the competitive environment that is PvP, you have to perform enough. What could happen if multi-boxing was allowed ? To perform enough to even stand a chance against multiboxer, you would have to multibox yourself. Regardless of if you likes it not, the impacts on the server would be a tremendous increase of characters leading to instabilities as well as classes and factions imbalance. Disallowing multibox is the simplest technical solution to prevent foreseeable technical issues and preserving everyone's fun. Note that the same reasoning can be applied to Twinking. In that case the technical issues (straining the server) aren't relevant and since optimisation is part of the game, the simplest solution is to authorize it.

In PvE, you are in a closed and controlled environment giving peoples the choice to play as or with multiboxers. It's not the case in PvP.

[Jolikmc]

this is why multiboxing is banned in pvp.

That's 'botting, which is a form of multiboxing, but the two aren't always the same. In the context of Turtle WoW, however, I'm assuming that "multiboxing" refers exclusively to one person controlling two characters without the use of scripts, shortcuts, or 'botting. Which leads me to be curious about why human-controlled multiboxing is banned here.

Multiboxing isn't banned in pve for historical reasons […] Because the server evolved and grew around multiboxing as a mold, it would feel very bad for the dedicated members that have been here for years and loved multiboxing to remove it entirely.

Not to derail, but if it's still allowed because of "tradition", then they should probably allow it on the PvP realm, too. Otherwise, people who "traditionally" dual-box probably won't play on there.

Multiboxing can be allowed in PvE because there are some cases when multiple persons play from single IP address (but different PCs)

That's not multiboxing. That's two people playing from the same IP. Most GMs should be able to tell the difference.

Because in a game, you agree to be bound to a set of rules with other players. Those rules also state the victory condition(s). A player that wouldn't aim for victory is actually not playing the game (for example : when someone don't fight back). In the competitive environment that is PvP […]

Not gonna lie? I have no idea what you're trying to say, here. Either way, I'm seeing a lot of opinions – which may or may not be founded in fact – but not a lot of hard data as to why or where multiboxing is or isn't allowed… Aside from "because they said so", I mean. That's kind of indisputable, but not terribly helpful.

[Xudo]

Those guys who ask for multibox on PvP server will be first victims of multiboxed 5x critical chain lightning on each flightmaster

[Balake]

That's 'botting, which is a form of multiboxing, but the two aren't always the same. In the context of Turtle WoW, however, I'm assuming that "multiboxing" refers exclusively to one person controlling two characters without the use of scripts, shortcuts, or 'botting. Which leads me to be curious about why human-controlled multiboxing is banned here.

Because a good human controlled multiboxer alt tabbing between two characters is still very very strong, almost ungankable by a single person, and that's a huge advantage in a pvp realm.

Not to derail, but if it's still allowed because of "tradition", then they should probably allow it on the PvP realm, too. Otherwise, people who "traditionally" dual-box probably won't play on there.

"Otherwise, people who traditionally dual-box probably won't play on there." That's the point, people who like dual boxing can play in the pve server with the rule of not flagging themselves for pvp.
Multiboxing in pvp is a cancer to the game, whether it uses software or alt tabbing.

[Drubarrymooer]

Legitimately was killed several times on a high pop server several times in classic by roguesx2 named things like gankuone and gankutwo where they would just perpetually keep me stun locked. I've also had warriors roll with a pocket healer they were seemingly playing themselves

Its not particularly useful to do in pve outside maybe 2 manning dungeons that you couldn't otherwise solo. It's pretty difficult to effectively heal, tank, or DPS efficiently when you're multiboxing. You can get away with it in ZG or MC and Ony, but I don't see it being uber effective in AQ40 trying to dodge ouru crumblies, dark glayr, anubisath trash, battle guard, etc etc.

[Algeri420]

As other people itt pointed it out, mutliboxing is of af in pvp, this is mmorpg, a multiplayer game, you are supposted to play with other people.

[Darktifa]

This shouldn't even be a question

You can easily train yourself and dual box, even multi box with great results
Never underestimate human capabilities

[Borefficz]

The better question is why isn't multiboxing banned for PvE

[Darktifa]

The better question is why isn't multiboxing banned for PvE

Just like HC, SnS etc
Multiboxing for PvE is a different angle of the game

Nowadays you can easily multibox a full group and run dungeons ALONE
It's interesting, fun, challenging and different than your casual experience

So, unless there is something like a high population leading to queues
i can see no point against multi boxing as pve

this is mmorpg, a multiplayer game, you are supposted to play with other people.

You are supposed to, but you can do whatever you want/have fun with...

[Borefficz]

The better question is why isn't multiboxing banned for PvE

Just like HC, SnS etc
Multiboxing for PvE is a different angle of the game

Nowadays you can easily multibox a full group and run dungeons ALONE
It's interesting, fun, challenging and different than your casual experience

So, unless there is something like a high population leading to queues
i can see no point against multi boxing as pve

The point against multiboxing in PvE is that you are not meant to be able to do most of the group content as a single player. Multiboxing often actively discourages you from grouping with other players because you can do something that normally you wouldn't be able to do as a single character without the assistance of other people.
Also multiboxing has potential to enable farming methods unavailable to non-multiboxers/make single-player farming methods more efficient (for example warrior+shaman allowing less/no downtime on high value elites making them more likely to be able to tag the respawns) providing an unfair advantage over players that don't multibox.
TL;DR multiboxing goes against what makes MMOs MMOs.

[Darktifa]

The point against multiboxing in PvE is that you are not meant to be able to do most of the group content as a single player. Multiboxing often actively discourages you from grouping with other players because you can do something that normally you wouldn't be able to do as a single character without the assistance of other people.

It's a 19 yo Game
"Old" players are bored of doing the same dungeons/quests again and again
If it wasn't for HC (and HC SF), i wouldn't play Vanilla again
If it wasn't for multi boxing, i wouldn't keep playing at all
I don't want to socialize and group up with others (been there, done that), i want a new concept, a new angle
i want to challenge myself and TWoW gives me this opportunity

Also multiboxing has potential to enable farming methods unavailable to non-multiboxers/make single-player farming methods more efficient (for example warrior+shaman allowing less/no downtime on high value elites making them more likely to be able to tag the respawns) providing an unfair advantage over players that don't multibox.

i can see your point
but
first of all, as a multi boxer, i won't farm in the open world, only dungeons
and even if i have a unfair advantage
the time i spent to prepare
level up
gear up
even move around
etc etc
is x5 the time/energy/resources than a "casual" player

TL;DR multiboxing goes against what makes MMOs MMOs.

There are several MMOs that encourage you in that direction...

[Fizzeek]

You were right, this shouldn't even BE a question. It's obvious someone wants an unfair advantage in pvp.

Git gud, peeps.

[Ishilu]

Not to derail, but if it's still allowed because of "tradition", then they should probably allow it on the PvP realm, too. Otherwise, people who "traditionally" dual-box probably won't play on there.

I'd say, new rules are ok for a new server. As Darktifa said, multiboxers often undertake a lot of effort for setting up their stuff. If the devs were to forbid multiboxing on the old realm now, they'd throw all that effort which as already been made out of the window. Simply not allowing people to "waste" their effort in the first place on a new server is another thing.

[Jolikmc]

Alright, so. I've basically seen the same point spoken again and again as to why multiboxing is disabled for PvP. So… let's address it.

It creates an unfair advantage for the multiboxers.
Some posts claim multiboxers "chain-gank" individuals. Some posts claim that multiboxers can clear whole dungeons by themselves. Whatever the case, as I said before… how much of an "advantage" could they possibly have again two, three, or especially five human opponents of equal level? Even at Level 60, I still contest that multiboxers could be outnumbered and defeated, no matter how good they are at slapping their hands against the keyboard and chain-macroing their way across Azeroth. And then, at lower levels, I don't see how they would compare to players of a higher or much higher level. So, again… the advantage seems very circumstantial.
—

Inversely, I've seen some comments about why it's still allowed on the ("RP-")PvE realm…

It's tradition from a time when there weren't as many players on the server.
I'm pretty sure there's enough players on the ("RP-")PvE realm, now, to sustain looking for groups at basically any level. In short: it's no longer necessary.

It expedites the process of clearing low-level dungeons for fun and profit.
I'm probably underestimating the value of comparatively low-level gear, but unless a bind-on-equip Epic somehow finds its way into a player's hands, I'm not seeing the time value, here. I'm also pretty sure that most everything that could be useful is bind-on-pickup? I might be wrong about that.

On the other hand, selling two inventory's-worths of white-to-blue junk probably is pretty profitable. And of course, I'm forgetting dropped mats and things. But again… this could easily be done with a high-level alt or with a random-body who's bored.

Because it doesn't interfere with the game like multiboxing in PvP would..
Maybe not directly, but if you take a look-see at the Auction House, sometime… Just sayin'.
—

I've pretty much given up on wondering why multiboxing isn't allowed on PvP by this point. More than practical reasons, it seems like player outrage might be the primary reason. People getting ganked by twin Rogues, or a Mage and Paladin reeking havoc on Goldshire, or what have you. I'm pretty sure if it were possible, people would outlaw Level 60 solo players doing the same thing, but even Turtle Team is just kind of like… "No. That's where we draw the line."

As for multiboxing in PvE situations? I'd bring up Blizzard's policy on their official servers, but I'm sure someone will just use the "they got their money, why should they care?" argument, again.
However, I still don't think it's necessary, if it ever was. I don't care about "traditions" or how much work people put into it. More than that, I feel that if it's not going to be allowed for all situations, then it shouldn't be allowed for any situation. That's something that always bothered me about Turtle Team's doings. They pick and choose over the strangest things, sometimes. So frustrating…

Anyway. Carry on and thank you for your input, all.

[Algeri420]

The point against multiboxing in PvE is that you are not meant to be able to do most of the group content as a single player. Multiboxing often actively discourages you from grouping with other players because you can do something that normally you wouldn't be able to do as a single character without the assistance of other people.

It's a 19 yo Game
"Old" players are bored of doing the same dungeons/quests again and again
If it wasn't for HC (and HC SF), i wouldn't play Vanilla again
If it wasn't for multi boxing, i wouldn't keep playing at all
I don't want to socialize and group up with others (been there, done that), i want a new concept, a new angle
i want to challenge myself and TWoW gives me this opportunity

Also multiboxing has potential to enable farming methods unavailable to non-multiboxers/make single-player farming methods more efficient (for example warrior+shaman allowing less/no downtime on high value elites making them more likely to be able to tag the respawns) providing an unfair advantage over players that don't multibox.

i can see your point
but
first of all, as a multi boxer, i won't farm in the open world, only dungeons
and even if i have a unfair advantage
the time i spent to prepare
level up
gear up
even move around
etc etc
is x5 the time/energy/resources than a "casual" player

TL;DR multiboxing goes against what makes MMOs MMOs.

There are several MMOs that encourage you in that direction...

donta wanna play with other people? gtfo, play singleplayer games and stop killing this genre

[Jstansberry]

Multiboxing on turtle is very limited and it is these limitations that allow it to be used in PvE without being disruptive to the experience of other players. You are limited to dual boxing (except for the explicit purpose of summoning alts, where you can control 3 characters for completing summons) and you can not use software to make controlling multiple accounts easier. This means you are either alt-tabbing or using multiple computers to control the characters. This limits the dual boxing capability to not much more than putting a pocket healing alt on /follow while you level/farm. Having something like a pocket healer at all times in PvP is much more impactful to the experience of other players than in PvE.

Maybe there are some people doing Dire Maul jump runs with a healer alt dual boxed, but some classes can already solo farm things like that easily so it's not as though this kind of thing is having a significant effect on the economy. I'm willing to bet my right nut the impact dual boxing has on AH prices is practically nothing.

There is no reason to argue for allowing multiboxing in PvP unless you want to kill PvP on the server. This is not a "pick and choose" situation, it's pragmatic and smart to have nuance to this rule. "It's all okay or it none of it should be okay" is not a logical position to take here. If they only allowed multi-boxing for summon alts, would you still be arguing for no limits on multi-boxing, or would you recognize that there are aspects of multi-boxing that are much more harmful to the server than others? I agree that the turtle team can be very inconsistent and the devs even seem to have completely different visions for the server at times, but this rule really shouldn't be contentious.

[Thol]

(except for the explicit purpose of summoning alts, where you can control 3 characters for completing summons)

Do you have a source on that point? If this is allowed why not make meeting stones active at that point. This goes against vanilla game design. But like you said already Turtle Devs may have different visions on this topic. I Just would like to know where they draw the line.

And on the main subject, Imo there's no good reason to allow Multiboxing unless it's for Roleplay purposes. Account creation is free so Turtle do not get extra money from multiboxers like Blizzard does.

[Silb]

Because it's not fun. 5 shamans one-shotting with chain lightning or 5 warlocks dotting everything up is an abject nightmare and I have no clue why anyone would advocate for that.

[Jstansberry]

Do you have a source on that point? If this is allowed why not make meeting stones active at that point. This goes against vanilla game design. But like you said already Turtle Devs may have different visions on this topic. I Just would like to know where they draw the line.

And on the main subject, Imo there's no good reason to allow Multiboxing unless it's for Roleplay purposes. Account creation is free so Turtle do not get extra money from multiboxers like Blizzard does.

In the rules:

"Three accounts are permitted for the use of Summoning Rituals."