A solution to the decrease in gaming experience caused by a surge in personnel

[Langtuteng]

Thank you to the turtle suit for allowing my Warcraft dream to continue! I have no more than 3 hours of free time per day. Before the server was on fire, I could happily log in and play for a few hours. Now the server is on fire, and my time has been wasted queuing up to log in. If I can't play for an hour, I'll have to rest. I hope to spend my time on my Ghost Tiger instead of on the queue interface.

It is strongly recommended to divide HC and non HC into two servers. On the same server, the two parties have reached the point of mutual interference and disgust.

I am a loyal supporter of HC. During the game experience, I saw non HC mindless monster grabbing, team up unlimited wild monster brushing, and script wild monster brushing materials, which have seriously affected the game's physical feel.

If HC and non HC can be divided into two servers, the HC server can open the auction house. If the entire server is composed of HC players, the auction house can be open to low-level players, because everything produced in the auction house is exchanged for the lives of other players, which is intentional. The phenomenon that some players are worried that once the auction house is opened to HC players, it will lead to low-level accounts obtaining good equipment to improve the survival rate of survival mode is actually completely absurd. The opening of auction houses will only lead to a decrease in the survival rate of low-level players, thinking that good equipment will make them inflated and arrogant. The opening of auction houses will lead to the economic prosperity of the game.

At present, non HC players are crowded with the entire server, most of which are script numbers from the studio. If not managed and sanctioned, ordinary players will no longer be able to play normally, and Turtle server will enter a dead end. Please consider my suggestion among the leaders of the production team. Thank you.

Long live WOW!!!

[Geojak]

Totally agree, we need hc server. Blizzard did something good for once. Especially the Chinese peak times make the problems painfully obvivous if yiu ever joined /China.

[Naonak1945]

They can also do what blizzard and Sony did for WoW and Everquest.

When area/zone population reaches a number and second mirror zone forms.

Also increasing mob/nps spawn times at certain numbers in an area would be a fast/easier fix

[Jammyxx]

They can also do what blizzard and Sony did for WoW and Everquest.

When area/zone population reaches a number and second mirror zone forms.

Also increasing mob/nps spawn times at certain numbers in an area would be a fast/easier fix

Unfortuantly not possible on 1.12 client.

[Eclipsetimm]

YES we need a HC only server. These players do nothing but take from out world. They do not belong on the same realm as non hc players. Its toxic. I will not have any mercy for any HC char.
They are a burden.

[Charanko]

YES we need a HC only server. These players do nothing but take from out world. They do not belong on the same realm as non hc players. Its toxic. I will not have any mercy for any HC char.
They are a burden.

Agree hc server long overdue… but turtle likes to take it slow,hence the name turtle :P

[Ishilu]

Not a bad suggestion at all (and not an old one, either). HC's and non-HC's competing for named quest mobs is one huge issue and this has been frequently discussed.

However, let's see how things change after the chinese server launches. Maybe they're hitting two birds with one stone.

[Geojak]

Tue Chinese playerbase is very much split in hc and non hc players, too. Even if it fixes the sitsrion bsck to the previous state for EU, the Chinese chat makes it very much apparent that a hc non hc server spit is super needed. Chat is spammed by hc trade

[Mativh]

This right here is an example of why chinese need to have their own server. There is no honor in this, such a dishonest manipulative behaviour, trying to spread anti-HC sentiment, trying to turn Turtle wow players against each other just to shift the attention from the real issue.
Don't be suprised to see masses of freshly registered people on the forum with english usernames asking for hc players to be sent away to another server... or being against chinese people having their server.. this insults the devs intelligence honestly. Very easy to see what is going on.

Regarding the HC server.. As both a HC and non-HC player, I like having the other ones on the same server, I like seeing a HC player when I play non-HC and salute him for making it as far as I am, I like, as a HC player doing something and coming across a non-HC player and non-verbally you can tell that we both are like: "I wish we could overcome this challenge together, but we are not on the same challenge, good luck / stay safe", the two groups still relate to each other on many levels, we are all Turtle players immersed in the unique mindset of this special server.
Even the fact that there is 2 non-HC players in a group vs 3 HC players in a group waiting, competing for the respawn is somewhat enjoyable.

What I do not like though is that I am playing, HC or non-HC, and I come across a player, who does not act like the Turtle players, who has a different mindset. Replace immersion with farming and roleplay with exploiting. And he sees the others as really the others, who I try to relate to, and that person just acts different, and I can tell from the behavior even before he answers me with a blank message... even if it could not be blank, they have the mentality of "we swarm this server together, its us vs them", then I see another "blank player" they group up together, and another, he joins them, and they are acting as if I wasn't there at best, or usually mess with me and what I am doing. Even if I group up, the attitude towards me is cold and hostile, and towards each other not. And I emphasize that it isn't about the comunication, but different gaming mindset, us vs them mentality. I do not appreciate this.

On surface, HC only server seems like a good idea, there could even be changes made for that challenge that couldnt be possible on a mixed server, perfecting the HC experience and making it to be baseline, but splitting the population like that right now is definitely not the solution to the growth. But I would miss them, on both sides. And this would just delay the real issue.

A chinese server is the priority, and brainstorming incentives to make them migrate there.
I see them being the n.1 supporters of HC only servers, using HC players as a scapegoat. It makes sense, they don't want to together enjoy the game for itself like turtle players do, they derive joy from having someone to sell the farmed things to, having someone to group up against.

[Wafflecrusher]

I think a HC only server would benefit everyone involved. Because HC and non HC players can't group with each other, or trade with each other, it creates animosity between the two groups. I know as a non HC player whenever I invite someone and see the "you can't invite this player" I mutter profanity under my breath, because now it's turned into an old west draw to see who can tag the mob first.

[Anadrol]

How many HC players can there be simultaneously at rush hour? 500? How many Chinese? 8000? Don't talk nonsense, an HC server is not going to solve anything, it would only be a patch. Also, if the queue problem is taking months to solve, I don't know what to expect from an HC server.

[Queefking]

HC realm. PvP realm. RP realm
Now.

[Mativh]

I think a HC only server would benefit everyone involved. Because HC and non HC players can't group with each other, or trade with each other, it creates animosity between the two groups. I know as a non HC player whenever I invite someone and see the "you can't invite this player" I mutter profanity under my breath, because now it's turned into an old west draw to see who can tag the mob first.

HC realm. PvP realm. RP realm
Now.

One look at your profiles is all thats needed, I get it why you dont want to just play with each other and enjoy the game, why you need "others", but Turtle WoW is an unique server with a very different mentality, and your manipulation is easy to see through. Stop trying to separate the turtle wow community. It wont happen.

[Queefking]

Stop trying to separate the turtle wow community. It wont happen.

So true, we should all be united in a single 10k queue waiting for hours to enter.

[Wafflecrusher]

That's exactly the issue. HC and non-HC players don't play with each other, they just occupy the same space. Giving HC players their own server would provide them with access to more resources including an AH, unrestricted trade, and unrestricted grouping. There would no longer be a need to fight for tags when you could just group. I don't see any benefit to HC and non-HC players sharing the same space. If anything, it brews animosity and resentment.

[Aydea]

This right here is an example of why chinese need to have their own server. There is no honor in this, such a dishonest manipulative behaviour, trying to spread anti-HC sentiment, trying to turn Turtle wow players against each other just to shift the attention from the real issue.
Don't be suprised to see masses of freshly registered people on the forum with english usernames asking for hc players to be sent away to another server... or being against chinese people having their server.. this insults the devs intelligence honestly. Very easy to see what is going on.

Regarding the HC server.. As both a HC and non-HC player, I like having the other ones on the same server, I like seeing a HC player when I play non-HC and salute him for making it as far as I am, I like, as a HC player doing something and coming across a non-HC player and non-verbally you can tell that we both are like: "I wish we could overcome this challenge together, but we are not on the same challenge, good luck / stay safe", the two groups still relate to each other on many levels, we are all Turtle players immersed in the unique mindset of this special server.
Even the fact that there is 2 non-HC players in a group vs 3 HC players in a group waiting, competing for the respawn is somewhat enjoyable.

What I do not like though is that I am playing, HC or non-HC, and I come across a player, who does not act like the Turtle players, who has a different mindset. Replace immersion with farming and roleplay with exploiting. And he sees the others as really the others, who I try to relate to, and that person just acts different, and I can tell from the behavior even before he answers me with a blank message... even if it could not be blank, they have the mentality of "we swarm this server together, its us vs them", then I see another "blank player" they group up together, and another, he joins them, and they are acting as if I wasn't there at best, or usually mess with me and what I am doing. Even if I group up, the attitude towards me is cold and hostile, and towards each other not. And I emphasize that it isn't about the comunication, but different gaming mindset, us vs them mentality. I do not appreciate this.

On surface, HC only server seems like a good idea, there could even be changes made for that challenge that couldnt be possible on a mixed server, perfecting the HC experience and making it to be baseline, but splitting the population like that right now is definitely not the solution to the growth. But I would miss them, on both sides. And this would just delay the real issue.

A chinese server is the priority, and brainstorming incentives to make them migrate there.
I see them being the n.1 supporters of HC only servers, using HC players as a scapegoat. It makes sense, they don't want to together enjoy the game for itself like turtle players do, they derive joy from having someone to sell the farmed things to, having someone to group up against.

Mativh, I like your posts. It is always nice to see someone taking the time and making the effort to compose a well written and articulated post. Always makes my day. Just a quick thank you.

[Geojak]

Chinese World chat is spammed with hc trade non loking for group vs hc looking for group.
Chinese servers woukd benefit alot of one hc only is opened along side

[Ishilu]

I wish we could overcome this challenge together

Can often be understood as: "We both need to kill that named mob over there for our quest. Too bad we can't team for this, so at least one of us will have to sit through the respawn timer.". I think this might be one of the biggest points of friction between HC's and normals.

I've proposed several times that HC's should be allowed to group up with non-HC's for just this reason. Allowing this for just long enough to kill That One Mob together (a minute should be sufficient) and only with a reasonably long cooldown to prevent abuse might be a more elegant solution than a seperate HC server.

[Karrados]

Stop trying to paint HC's as the real issue here. We might not be able to play with them but at least we can talk with them.

At this point I am looking at HC players as if they were part of the old faction system where you cannot group with them like on a normal server. I can still TALK with them though which is more than I can say for a certain group of people that have recently flooded the server.

[Mativh]

Mativh, I like your posts. It is always nice to see someone taking the time and making the effort to compose a well written and articulated post. Always makes my day. Just a quick thank you.

I'm glad to know thank you, when I was reading your posts I thought the same, so likewise I'd like to express my gratitude for lifting the spirit of those attuned to that level of insight/care, and for allowing a glimpse into your rich inner world.

[Remmo87]

HC realm. PvP realm. RP realm
Now.

This.
Now.

[Remmo87]

That's exactly the issue. HC and non-HC players don't play with each other, they just occupy the same space. Giving HC players their own server would provide them with access to more resources including an AH, unrestricted trade, and unrestricted grouping. There would no longer be a need to fight for tags when you could just group. I don't see any benefit to HC and non-HC players sharing the same space. If anything, it brews animosity and resentment.

I agree with everything here. Its always nice to see a post making sense. Thank you

[Azuladrip]

This right here is an example of why chinese need to have their own server. There is no honor in this, such a dishonest manipulative behaviour, trying to spread anti-HC sentiment, trying to turn Turtle wow players against each other just to shift the attention from the real issue.
Don't be suprised to see masses of freshly registered people on the forum with english usernames asking for hc players to be sent away to another server... or being against chinese people having their server.. this insults the devs intelligence honestly. Very easy to see what is going on.

Regarding the HC server.. As both a HC and non-HC player, I like having the other ones on the same server, I like seeing a HC player when I play non-HC and salute him for making it as far as I am, I like, as a HC player doing something and coming across a non-HC player and non-verbally you can tell that we both are like: "I wish we could overcome this challenge together, but we are not on the same challenge, good luck / stay safe", the two groups still relate to each other on many levels, we are all Turtle players immersed in the unique mindset of this special server.
Even the fact that there is 2 non-HC players in a group vs 3 HC players in a group waiting, competing for the respawn is somewhat enjoyable.

What I do not like though is that I am playing, HC or non-HC, and I come across a player, who does not act like the Turtle players, who has a different mindset. Replace immersion with farming and roleplay with exploiting. And he sees the others as really the others, who I try to relate to, and that person just acts different, and I can tell from the behavior even before he answers me with a blank message... even if it could not be blank, they have the mentality of "we swarm this server together, its us vs them", then I see another "blank player" they group up together, and another, he joins them, and they are acting as if I wasn't there at best, or usually mess with me and what I am doing. Even if I group up, the attitude towards me is cold and hostile, and towards each other not. And I emphasize that it isn't about the comunication, but different gaming mindset, us vs them mentality. I do not appreciate this.

On surface, HC only server seems like a good idea, there could even be changes made for that challenge that couldnt be possible on a mixed server, perfecting the HC experience and making it to be baseline, but splitting the population like that right now is definitely not the solution to the growth. But I would miss them, on both sides. And this would just delay the real issue.

A chinese server is the priority, and brainstorming incentives to make them migrate there.
I see them being the n.1 supporters of HC only servers, using HC players as a scapegoat. It makes sense, they don't want to together enjoy the game for itself like turtle players do, they derive joy from having someone to sell the farmed things to, having someone to group up against.

The main problem I see with it is that the HC server would immediately become the new normal server. People have this idea that there's these two completely split groups of players HC and non-HC, but that's not really true. Most HC players have normal characters, and at most might have a HC account a non-HC account. I think this sort of misunderstanding is largely coming from new HC-only players who just started playing on Turtle.

All opening a HC server would do is take the bulk of the active players (who play HC) and put them all on one server. Now, I imagine someone saying, "Well, so what? It's not like 99% of the pop is HC, the normal players would remain." But I'd argue that they probably wouldn't. What's nice about the two groups being together is that if I feel like playing my normal character and my friends are playing their HC ones, we can still talk or even help one another as much as it's possible outside of grouping. But if every time I logged on I'd see my friends list is empty because they're all playing HC, I''d be forced to start playing HC too so I can be with my friends and slowly come to abandon my normal characters altogether.

And I think, over time, this would turn into a complete death spiral for the normal server. HC would become the new norm, both because there are players who feel forced to play there, and because new players will likely start on HC since they'll see it's far more active and they'll start to identify Turtle itself with the HC experience rather than a cozy roleplaying server (which might not be what it is anymore, but it's what it's supposed to be).

And I agree that I kinda like the competitiveness between the two groups. It is very fun to steal mobs from HC players or watch them die while I'm totally unharmed because I'm not doing the challenge. Vae victis, bitch - it's what you wanted.

If I'm honest, I think the main problem is that we don't have more fun challenges beyond HC, though it's clear the devs are working on adding more. If we ever get to the point where there are 10+ challenges for getting to 60, I imagine you'll see a significant decrease in HC players. Right now it's "the most fun way to play", but that needn't be the case necessarily. With a big enough diversity in leveling challenges, HC might become a much smaller minority. I definitely think the new challenge they came up with where you gotta level in greys is awesome and much more up my alley.

[Fresharugula]

This right here is an example of why chinese need to have their own server. There is no honor in this, such a dishonest manipulative behaviour, trying to spread anti-HC sentiment, trying to turn Turtle wow players against each other just to shift the attention from the real issue.
Don't be suprised to see masses of freshly registered people on the forum with english usernames asking for hc players to be sent away to another server... or being against chinese people having their server.. this insults the devs intelligence honestly. Very easy to see what is going on.

Regarding the HC server.. As both a HC and non-HC player, I like having the other ones on the same server, I like seeing a HC player when I play non-HC and salute him for making it as far as I am, I like, as a HC player doing something and coming across a non-HC player and non-verbally you can tell that we both are like: "I wish we could overcome this challenge together, but we are not on the same challenge, good luck / stay safe", the two groups still relate to each other on many levels, we are all Turtle players immersed in the unique mindset of this special server.
Even the fact that there is 2 non-HC players in a group vs 3 HC players in a group waiting, competing for the respawn is somewhat enjoyable.

What I do not like though is that I am playing, HC or non-HC, and I come across a player, who does not act like the Turtle players, who has a different mindset. Replace immersion with farming and roleplay with exploiting. And he sees the others as really the others, who I try to relate to, and that person just acts different, and I can tell from the behavior even before he answers me with a blank message... even if it could not be blank, they have the mentality of "we swarm this server together, its us vs them", then I see another "blank player" they group up together, and another, he joins them, and they are acting as if I wasn't there at best, or usually mess with me and what I am doing. Even if I group up, the attitude towards me is cold and hostile, and towards each other not. And I emphasize that it isn't about the comunication, but different gaming mindset, us vs them mentality. I do not appreciate this.

On surface, HC only server seems like a good idea, there could even be changes made for that challenge that couldnt be possible on a mixed server, perfecting the HC experience and making it to be baseline, but splitting the population like that right now is definitely not the solution to the growth. But I would miss them, on both sides. And this would just delay the real issue.

A chinese server is the priority, and brainstorming incentives to make them migrate there.
I see them being the n.1 supporters of HC only servers, using HC players as a scapegoat. It makes sense, they don't want to together enjoy the game for itself like turtle players do, they derive joy from having someone to sell the farmed things to, having someone to group up against.

The main problem I see with it is that the HC server would immediately become the new normal server. People have this idea that there's these two completely split groups of players HC and non-HC, but that's not really true. Most HC players have normal characters, and at most might have a HC account a non-HC account. I think this sort of misunderstanding is largely coming from new HC-only players who just started playing on Turtle.

All opening a HC server would do is take the bulk of the active players (who play HC) and put them all on one server. Now, I imagine someone saying, "Well, so what? It's not like 99% of the pop is HC, the normal players would remain." But I'd argue that they probably wouldn't. What's nice about the two groups being together is that if I feel like playing my normal character and my friends are playing their HC ones, we can still talk or even help one another as much as it's possible outside of grouping. But if every time I logged on I'd see my friends list is empty because they're all playing HC, I''d be forced to start playing HC too so I can be with my friends and slowly come to abandon my normal characters altogether.

And I think, over time, this would turn into a complete death spiral for the normal server. HC would become the new norm, both because there are players who feel forced to play there, and because new players will likely start on HC since they'll see it's far more active and they'll start to identify Turtle itself with the HC experience rather than a cozy roleplaying server (which might not be what it is anymore, but it's what it's supposed to be).

And I agree that I kinda like the competitiveness between the two groups. It is very fun to steal mobs from HC players or watch them die while I'm totally unharmed because I'm not doing the challenge. Vae victis, bitch - it's what you wanted.

If I'm honest, I think the main problem is that we don't have more fun challenges beyond HC, though it's clear the devs are working on adding more. If we ever get to the point where there are 10+ challenges for getting to 60, I imagine you'll see a significant decrease in HC players. Right now it's "the most fun way to play", but that needn't be the case necessarily. With a big enough diversity in leveling challenges, HC might become a much smaller minority. I definitely think the new challenge they came up with where you gotta level in greys is awesome and much more up my alley.

You seem to think HC is way more popular than it actually is.

[Azuladrip]

You seem to think HC is way more popular than it actually is.

Sure, but my main point is that there's really no good reason to split the server and there's more bad that can come from it than good. If the numbers ever get so high that they were going to make another server anyway, then maybe they could see if it might be worth to make HC a separate one. But I don't see a problem in playing with HC or playing among normies when I am HC. People that whine about not having an AH should be grateful they're able to trade at all. If it were up to me, HC would mean no guild, no partying, no trading. Just endless suffering.

[Wafflecrusher]

I disagree that more bad can come from a HC only server than good. The reason there are so many calls for a HC server is because people are regularly and routinely frustrated by their interactions with HC players. The mob tagging and the inability to interact in a meaningful way is problematic, and divides the community. I understand that you are against it because you want to communicate with your friends whether you're on your HC character or not, but it seems to me most people either play HC or they don't. I'm sure there is some cross over, but the benefits of two servers (more tools, more interaction, less division) far out weigh the detriments (can't always talk to the same people in-game if you play both HC and normal). Additionally, I feel the potential communication issue can be overcome by discord. Yeah, it's not the same, but if ya'll are super tight knit then it's a non issue.

I do not think that a HC only realm would kill the regular server. I don't have the numbers on who plays HC and who doesn't, but my experience is that the majority of players are not HC. I do not think it would be the more active server, in-fact quite the opposite. Even assuming that your thesis is correct that it would be, HC is such a commitment I doubt that players would hop over in such a cavalier manner as you stated. Indeed, I'd imagine there would be more pressure to go non-HC.

Regardless, a HC only server would help reduce animosity between groups, provide more utility and resources for the HC community, and would reduce the load on the one server. Hopefully the SEA server will eliminate queues completely, but if it doesn't, I think a HC server is the next logical step.

[Muggsy]

The fact that most people see high population density as a detriment to their single player experience should tell you something about how fundamentaly broken MMORPG's are.

I suggest automatic grouping with other players in vicinity like you find in Guild Wars 2'ish.