Please Change Orc Stun Resist Racial

[Arkael]

Hey, completely biased take as a Alliance Rogue but can you guys PLEASE change Hardiness to reduce the duration of stuns instead of just straight up resisting them? Nothing feels worse then to open on an Orc and have your Cheap Shot get resisted and your just standing there with your dick in your hand. It felt bad in Classic, felt bad in TBC, and it feels bad on TWoW. I'm sure I'll get flamed by the Horde PvP player base but those are my two cents. I also feel like other racial abilities should be changed as not everyone wants to play BiS race and wants to enjoy the game in their own way. Maybe implement a way to choose which racial abilities? Thanks :).

[Borefficz]

A reliable 25% stun duration reduction would arguably be even more OP and then rogues would complain how they don't have enough time to do their combos lol

[Arkael]

That's not true. The reasoning is you can plan for CC to have a shorter duration. Compared to a Stun just completely not landing entirely at random. At least I'll know my stuns won't last as long. Currently, when fighting an Orc your just rolling dice to see what happens. It's bad game design any way you look at it. Even if I had to sacrifice a 5 point kidney and do a 4 point instead I would WAY rather have that then what is currently there.

[Geojak]

+1 very needed

[Xudo]

[Randomness] is bad game design any way you look at it.

Actually, it is not.
Random nature of stun and other kind of resistance is required to make each fight different.
If you remove all randomness, then all fights will be predetermined. And you will be 100% sure that some fights you will always lose. With random outcomes, your odds could look like 3 vs 4. You have chance to fail and you have chance to succeed depending on how crits and dodges land.
Luck don't always play against you. Sometimes it plays for you, but failures are more memorable.

The reasoning is you can plan for CC to have a shorter duration.

You can plan escape option in case of failure of CC. If it happens 25% of time, you should have escape plan. Don't rely on 100% success of your actions.

[Arkael]

Even without stuns being resisted there is plenty of variance in match ups. For instance, just deciding which stun to trinket changes the way I would respond to the situation. You don’t need a roll of the dice to influence the outcome of a PvP encounter that dramatically. When you press a button and commit an action that action should occur. It’s one thing when someone beats you because they just played better, I can accept that. Hell, even losing to a player with more gear isn’t as bad because they put in time to get said gear. Losing a 1v1 because an ability got resisted isn’t fun or engaging.

[Arkael]

Also, imagine you’re playing CSGO and you throw a flash bang at someone. You think it’s going to blind them but the developers decided when using the AK-47 they have a 25% chance to resist your flash bang. Sure you can react to that situation and change how you play but did it feel good? At the end of the day we play games to have fun. Hardiness in its current state is unintuitive and frustrating to play against.

[Hctwowfan]

At the end of the day we play games to have fun. Hardiness in its current state is unintuitive and frustrating to play against.

But you're ok with taking away an orcs fun when they resist the stun?

[Arkael]

Because it’s toxic gameplay. What’s fun about literally doing nothing except making a choice at character creation. Hell, I’d even be okay with Hardiness if it was something they had to activate with a duration and a cooldown, similar to how free action potions work.

[Geojak]

The least we can do is nerf it to 15% like tbc

[Borefficz]

That's not true. The reasoning is you can plan for CC to have a shorter duration. Compared to a Stun just completely not landing entirely at random. At least I'll know my stuns won't last as long. Currently, when fighting an Orc your just rolling dice to see what happens. It's bad game design any way you look at it. Even if I had to sacrifice a 5 point kidney and do a 4 point instead I would WAY rather have that then what is currently there.

Following this logic critical strikes should be removed from the game because sometimes getting a crit or not decides who stays alive and who doesn't.

[Shaman111]

Because it’s toxic gameplay. What’s fun about literally doing nothing except making a choice at character creation. Hell, I’d even be okay with Hardiness if it was something they had to activate with a duration and a cooldown, similar to how free action potions work.

i think rogues ganking with stealth is toxic gameplay too. in case things dont go their way they just blind and vanish thats pretty lame too. rogue class removal when?

[Darktifa]

Because it’s toxic gameplay

You have just opened the Pandora's box!

[Arkael]

Following this logic critical strikes should be removed from the game because sometimes getting a crit or not decides who stays alive and who doesn't.

How can you compare critical strike chance to a static precent chance to resist? Also, in the coming patch they will be adding the new stat that reduces the chance to get critically hit. It' not like I can itemize hit to negate the chance for Orcs to resist my stuns. There's no counter play to it. You just have to suck it up and deal with it. Poor game design.

i think rogues ganking with stealth is toxic gameplay too. in case things dont go their way they just blind and vanish thats pretty lame too. rogue class removal when?

Here's the kicker. EVEN STEALTH AND BLIND HAVE COUNTERPLAY. Faerie fire, and Hunter's Mark prevent rogues from entering stealth and Cloak of Shadows isn't a thing here. On top of that, Flare will knock a rogue out if they are stealthed. Most classes such as mage and priest also have reliable AoE tools to knock out stealth targets, and warlocks have Detect Invisibility on top of Paranoia from their Felhunter. Blind can be dispelled. The point I'm making is there is counter play to Stealth and Blind. There is absolutely zero counter play to a 25% chance your crowd control won't go off.

[Shaman111]

theres no counterplay to blind on horde outside of drinking potion before you get hit with it (alliance has bubble and dwarf racial). as for targeted debuffs and aoes, they dont matter if you dont know theres a rogue around. warlocks dont run around with felhunter. detect invisibility has nothing to do with stealth either. rogues are priviliged af in pvp and if you dont like going against orc racials just reroll horde race. above is written in context of wpvp, not bgs

[Calli]

I am against it. Leave the orc racial as it is, time reduction is just awful. Bad idea.

[Arkael]

theres no counterplay to blind on horde outside of drinking potion before you get hit with it (alliance has bubble and dwarf racial). as for targeted debuffs and aoes, they dont matter if you dont know theres a rogue around. warlocks dont run around with felhunter. detect invisibility has nothing to do with stealth either. rogues are priviliged af in pvp and if you dont like going against orc racials just reroll horde race. above is written in context of wpvp, not bgs

I guess abolish poison and poison cleansing totem isn't a thing for Horde then :)? I thought with a name like Shaman111 you would mention the later. What it sounds like to me is you want to keep an unhealthy gameplay aspect because it benefits you without understanding why it's bad for the game. There is a reason things like heartbeat resists and Hardiness were changed in later versions of the game. It's bad design. Also, your arguments are flawed. Giving examples of why rogues are strong in PvP isn't the same as defending Hardiness. Please, give me one good reason why Hardiness is good for the game and is well designed that doesn't involved "I got killed by a rogue in PvP".

I am against it. Leave the orc racial as it is, time reduction is just awful.

You know what's even more awful? Using a skill and it not working at a 25% chance, with zero way to offset it.

[Geojak]

25% + baseline ressi chance of 5% plus possibly more if talented. warrios can get another 15%. no this aint balanced.

its a joke we are nerfing paladins because of pvp but ignore the STRONGEST pvp racials in the game of the faction that anyway has always been attracting the better pvpers for having the better racials and therefor winning more.

first thing first. nerf hardiness. serf justice to the alliance

[Likaleo]

Why you use stuns against orcs? L2p issue i would say. Its not like you have 4 more oppeners and finnishing moves.

Horde are underdogs on this server pvp wise. We should not nerf them .We should buff stun resistance 50%

[Tacticalnelf]

Hey, completely biased take as a Alliance Rogue but can you guys PLEASE change Hardiness to reduce the duration of stuns instead of just straight up resisting them? Nothing feels worse then to open on an Orc and have your Cheap Shot get resisted and your just standing there with your dick in your hand. It felt bad in Classic, felt bad in TBC, and it feels bad on TWoW. I'm sure I'll get flamed by the Horde PvP player base but those are my two cents. I also feel like other racial abilities should be changed as not everyone wants to play BiS race and wants to enjoy the game in their own way. Maybe implement a way to choose which racial abilities? Thanks :).

I agree, the orc's racial should be: "Become immortal for 12 seconds while dealing 10k holy damage with one hit".

[Arkael]

Why you use stuns against orcs? L2p issue i would say. Its not like you have 4 more oppeners and finnishing moves.

Horde are underdogs on this server pvp wise. We should not nerf them .We should buff stun resistance 50%

Spoken like someone who hasn't got a clue. Rogue's in PvP completely revolve around their stuns to function. There are certain matchups where the 1v1 is 50-50 if your stuns land and turn into 100% loss if they get resisted. This isn't even talking about group PvP where stuns matter even more. Do you even know why Horde is the underdog faction? Swords are by far the strongest weapons and guess what, Humans get sword skill which is arguably just as strong in PvE as Orc racial is in PvP. The difference is it can be offset by the fact you can itemize weapon skill. Also, Alliance have High Elf which is by far the most popular race in World of Warcraft. If you don't believe me look at retail wow census where almost 20% of the player base are Blood Elves with there being 22 other races to play as. I get it, you want to keep your unfair advantage. That said, it's not good for the game. Same with other unbalances such as weapon skill on races.

I agree, the orc's racial should be: "Become immortal for 12 seconds while dealing 10k holy damage with one hit".

Yes, Paladin is insane on this server. I often times question how many of the Devs are playing them. They should be nerfed a lot more then what they are getting. That doesn't mean other imbalances in the game should go unnoticed too.

[Hctwowfan]

First and foremost this is a pve server. Don't expect anyone to cater to your pvp demands. If it ain't broken in pve, leave it as is. Find a pvp server if you feel the need to stomp some undergeared noobs or play a game with actual pvp on equal footing if you honestly care about skill based outcome.

[Arkael]

First and foremost this is a pve server. Don't expect anyone to cater to your pvp demands. If it ain't broken in pve, leave it as is. Find a pvp server if you feel the need to stomp some undergeared noobs or play a game with actual pvp on equal footing if you honestly care about skill based outcome.

Actually your wrong, this is an RP server. So your argument falls flat on its face once again. I've been on this server for four months, and I've given the TWow team over 200 dollars of my money. I think I'm allowed to suggest changes to the game. Also, I've been playing Wow since Beta over 20 twenty years ago so I think I know what I'm talking about :). Ego aside, I love this server and a majority of the changes they have made and hope to see it continue to grow over the years. That being said, I think one of the ways to make the growth continue to is put a little bit of effort into the PvP side of the game. Just like the changes to itemization in PvE and various others, PvP deserves love too. The reduced chance to crit stat is a step in the right direction. This is another.

[Darktifa]

I've been on this server for four months, and I've given the TWow team over 200 dollars of my money. I think I'm allowed to suggest changes to the game. Also, I've been playing Wow since Beta over 20 twenty years ago so I think I know what I'm talking about :)

I believe you random stranger on the internet!
That argument left me speechless, plz nerf orc racial now!
ITS SO TOXIC!!!!

[Arkael]

I've been on this server for four months, and I've given the TWow team over 200 dollars of my money. I think I'm allowed to suggest changes to the game. Also, I've been playing Wow since Beta over 20 twenty years ago so I think I know what I'm talking about :)

I believe you random stranger on the internet!
That argument left me speechless, plz nerf orc racial now!
ITS SO TOXIC!!!!

Thanks! Glad to see someone agrees :).

[Hctwowfan]

First and foremost this is a pve server. Don't expect anyone to cater to your pvp demands. If it ain't broken in pve, leave it as is. Find a pvp server if you feel the need to stomp some undergeared noobs or play a game with actual pvp on equal footing if you honestly care about skill based outcome.

Actually your wrong, this is an RP server. So your argument falls flat on its face once again. I've been on this server for four months, and I've given the TWow team over 200 dollars of my money. I think I'm allowed to suggest changes to the game. Also, I've been playing Wow since Beta over 20 twenty years ago so I think I know what I'm talking about :). Ego aside, I love this server and a majority of the changes they have made and hope to see it continue to grow over the years. That being said, I think one of the ways to make the growth continue to is put a little bit of effort into the PvP side of the game. Just like the changes to itemization in PvE and various others, PvP deserves love too. The reduced chance to crit stat is a step in the right direction. This is another.

Ok I give you that, it's an RP-pve server. How does that improve your argument? It doesnt. It still remains a pve server, which you'll easily find out once you walk into one of the 'contested zones' that exist on pvp realms. Nobody's auto flagged for entering those zones.

What does your past 20 years of playing wow have to do with anything tho? If you've got half as much insight and experience as you're trying to make it sound, I assume you'll find a way to make pvp work despite one single 'toxic' (oO?) racial.

'But I've been here for 4 months and I spent 200 usd and want pvp' - nobody asked (oO?) and nobody's stopping you from making suggestions, we're just disagreeing with you. If you want your suggestions to remain unchallenged, dont post em in a forum, write a mail to the devs and see where that leads.

Again: Find a pvp server if you want pvp. Play an actual pvp game if you want fair pvp on an equal footing.

[Arkael]

Ok I give you that, it's an RP-pve server. How does that improve your argument? It doesnt. It still remains a pve server, which you'll easily find out once you walk into one of the 'contested zones' that exist on pvp realms. Nobody's auto flagged for entering those zones.

What does your past 20 years of playing wow have to do with anything tho? If you've got half as much insight and experience as you're trying to make it sound, I assume you'll find a way to make pvp work despite one single 'toxic' (oO?) racial.

'But I've been here for 4 months and I spent 200 usd and want pvp' - nobody asked (oO?) and nobody's stopping you from making suggestions, we're just disagreeing with you. If you want your suggestions to remain unchallenged, dont post em in a forum, write a mail to the devs and see where that leads.

Again: Find a pvp server if you want pvp. Play an actual pvp game if you want fair pvp on an equal footing.

PvP is still here though right? There is still a sizeable player base engaging in the content right? Are you saying that because everyone doesn't PvP it shouldn't be balanced? I'm fine with my opinion being challenged, in fact I want it to be so the devs can see the reasoning behind Hardiness being as broken as it is being completely ridiculous. Actually I have no idea why you are supporting it. What value does it bring to the game? Why is the argument to just switch servers if I'm unhappy with the current state? That's such a cuck response. I'd rather push for reform then leave because I'm unhappy.

[Hctwowfan]

All I initially said is: this is a pve server so don't expect the devs to care.

Why do I support it in it's current state? I couldn't care less about if it's 1% or 25% or 75%. What I care about is limited resources being wasted on pvp balancing. Thus is said if it doesn't break pve, leave it as is.

There is no sizeable player base that cares about hardiness. How do I know? Nobody complained about it yet and there's enough people that have accounts waaaaay older than mere 4 months. So either nobody cares about pvp or those that do don't see hardiness as a problem.

You felt it necessary to educate us on the amount of time and money you have spent on twow and wow overall because your suggestion lacks foundation. By your logic hardiness is bad because it's a random 25% chance. Okay let's make it 100% stun resist. Takes away the random part and now you know what you get if you wanna stun an orc.

Why do I tell you to move to a pvp server? Because they'll cater to their audience and attempt to balance pvp.

Why do I tell you to play a different game if you want pvp? Because a roleplaying game with pve raid loot will never have any fair pvp. Play a moba or CSGO if you want skill to be the determining factor of winning. You don't get more queens in chess just because you played pve chess and now can stomp players with less queens in pvp. An rpg with pve loot that you can use in pvp will never be skill based. Find a different game if you want balanced pvp.

[Xudo]

All I initially said is: this is a pve server so don't expect the devs to care.

Why do I support it in it's current state? I couldn't care less about if it's 1% or 25% or 75%. What I care about is limited resources being wasted on pvp balancing. Thus is said if it doesn't break pve, leave it as is.

There is no sizeable player base that cares about hardiness. How do I know? Nobody complained about it yet and there's enough people that have accounts waaaaay older than mere 4 months. So either nobody cares about pvp or those that do don't see hardiness as a problem.

You felt it necessary to educate us on the amount of time and money you have spent on twow and wow overall because your suggestion lacks foundation. By your logic hardiness is bad because it's a random 25% chance. Okay let's make it 100% stun resist. Takes away the random part and now you know what you get if you wanna stun an orc.

Why do I tell you to move to a pvp server? Because they'll cater to their audience and attempt to balance pvp.

Why do I tell you to play a different game if you want pvp? Because a roleplaying game with pve raid loot will never have any fair pvp. Play a moba or CSGO if you want skill to be the determining factor of winning. You don't get more queens in chess just because you played pve chess and now can stomp players with less queens in pvp. An rpg with pve loot that you can use in pvp will never be skill based. Find a different game if you want balanced pvp.

Sadly I can't agree more. I can only add that in addition of gear difference, there is consumable difference between players. There are a lot of game-changing potions: FAP, Limited Invulnerability Potion, Swiftness potion, Restorative Potion. The more supply you get, the more successful you are. There are also numerous amount of trinkets like magic reflectors, summoning trinkets, spider belts, stunning helmets, nets, slumber sand.

FAP is probably one of the reasons why people don't really care for hardiness. Who cares about 25% chance if you can get 30 seconds of stun and slow immunity?

[Arkael]

Why do I support it in it's current state? I couldn't care less about if it's 1% or 25% or 75%. What I care about is limited resources being wasted on pvp balancing. Thus is said if it doesn't break pve, leave it as is.

Thanks for making everything you say completely irrelevant. You basically don't want any quality of life of PvP because you think it will take away from PvE dev time. It's actually kind of sad your reasoning for not wanting to see the game improve for your own selfish reasons. I personally love to see the game improve in all ways. PvP, PvE, RP.

FAP is probably one of the reasons why people don't really care for hardiness. Who cares about 25% chance if you can get 30 seconds of stun and slow immunity?

Again, FAPS, LAPS, Trinkets those are all things you have to PRESS A BUTTON to use. Hardiness is a passive that is constantly there. There is no skill involved.

[Darktifa]

Again, FAPS, LAPS, Trinkets those are all things you have to PRESS A BUTTON to use. Hardiness is a passive that is constantly there. There is no skill involved.

I strongly suggest they should hire u in TWoW developing team!!!
Excellent idea, strong solid FACTS!

Not only Hardiness is T O X I C, it's also for n00bs!
NERF ALL PASSIVES NOWWWW!

[Geojak]

Devs are nerfing paladins because of pvp next patch. They csn nerf hardiness, becuase of pvp too. No excuses with this pve server distraction

[Karrados]

Yes, because we need more reasons for people to ditch Horde and go to Alliance :)

[Arkael]

Yes, because we need more reasons for people to ditch Horde and go to Alliance :)

Just give Horde Blood Elves and you'll see the population bounce back xD.

I strongly suggest they should hire u in TWoW developing team!!!
Excellent idea, strong solid FACTS!

Not only Hardiness is T O X I C, it's also for n00bs!
NERF ALL PASSIVES NOWWWW!

If they are hiring let me know! I'll definitely apply!

[Karrados]

They already said that they won't do that, Blood Elves are Evil and hostile to both sides on Turtle.