Patch 1.17.0 — Beyond the Greymane Wall

[Gantulga]

Hunter was turned into a 1 button class here with the addition of Trueshot.

[Wrathweaver]

I was fine with crusader strike, new spells are always fun.
But i was really sad about the removal of vanilla paladin since i really do care about the class. :(

Im also fine with proccing with a new seal or spell as long as it does not come a the cost of removing everyting about the original paladin way of playing.

It is a different class now, most people flock to the server because its free, not because they truly care about world of warcraft the way it was back in the day.
Would be better to make the debuff more viable by buffing judgement of the crusader, keep crusader strike and perhaps add a new ability or seal if people enjoy proccing weapons. :)

Spells and class identity have not been removed from any other class, its just paladin that no longer play like the original class at all.
Freedom to choose is what i want.
Hope it is not a permanent removal of the original judgement, would be really sad if that was the case.

I leveled a paladin back in vanilla, and did some raiding. Trust me. Nothing of value has been lost. I don't think your coming at this in good faith either. Its just vague I want old pally because something something something. Its a pivot from your original argument of nerfing pvp paladins because of their holy burst. All this new direction does is reach the same effect from a new angle while trying not to sound unpopular.

seal of command/holy shock build is lost

The ability to do holy shock while lvling is lost because of it, also made the dps before 40 viable.

[Shroudedsoul]

Well, there are other classes that can satisfy that itch. Hunter was always the easy and new player recommend class.

[Boras]

Hello, everyone! We're happy to announce that the team is back from a break and the new patch is currently in the works. We will gradually update this thread as the development goes to keep you updated on the upcoming content!

New class & race combinations

• Human Hunter. With assistance from their High Elven allies, many young humans have begun to adopt the ways of marksmanship and connection with nature.

• Troll Warlock. With the reuniting of the forest trolls and the darkspear tribes, the practice of dark magic has become more prominent in troll culture, opening new ways for those who seek power, but at what cost?

New dungeons

...

New end-game raids

• Emerald Sanctum. Accessed through a dream portal in Hyjal, The Emerald Sanctum serves as the domain of Solnius the Wakener, standing watch as his kin slumber awaiting his call of awakening. A fog of corruption has descended upon the Emerald Dream, twisting the morals and intentions of even the noblest and purest. The corrupted Wakener is preparing to send a premature call of awakening; if not stopped, his kin will arise and go on a frenzied rampage across Azeroth.

• Lower Karazhan Halls. Looming over Deadwind Pass, the tower of Karazhan is an imposing sight for all who gaze upon it. Once home to the Guardian Medivh, the secrets of this place may still be uncovered.

New zones & quests

• Gilneas. The Greymane Wall lays opened, its gate shattered, what lies beyond shall now be rediscovered since its closure during the Third War...

New transport routes

...

PvP-related

...

Miscellaneous

• The Farstrider Lodge is getting a new look! More accurate to its High Elven legacy. The gilded exterior blending with the natural wilds showcases both the ancestral ties to the Kaldorei, as well as the pride and progress of their civilization before the coming of the Scourge.

• The Quel'dorei fleet was not completely wiped out after the fall of Quel'thalas. Some of their iconic destroyers are returning to serve their people again!

Fix protection paladins. Reckoning is a dead talent. Needs to be changed to 10% chance like redoubt. Taunt should not be tied to judgements, and especially not judgement of justice. One-handed spec is also a dead talent. Should increase all damage, not just your auto attack damage. Add proper gear. There’s still 0 gear for paladin tanks. Give us spellpower, def, stam, and intellect plate armor throughout the raids. It should be accessible early on. You’ve only given ret tier armor sets.

[Kekrimm]

fIx PRotEcTioN pALaDins! MRRRRRRRRR! bruh demanding shit is definitely the way to get it fixed. lol

[Boras]

fIx PRotEcTioN pALaDins! MRRRRRRRRR! bruh demanding shit is definitely the way to get it fixed. lol

Clown

[Hysorn]

Maan, can't wait for human hunters, having a hard time bringing myself to level anything else knowing they are just around the corner.

[Bayanni]

So for the new challenge, what happens when enchantments are introduced via trade windows? Or how about if you enchant your own gear?

[0ddzag]

Is there any chance at all Gnomes might someday get a healer class :)

[Kiersteadmo]

Love it

[Kiersteadmo]

Can we get sharable accoutn bound items from donation shop? just a few?

[Gattare]

Since the equipable items are limited in Vagrant's Endeavor mode, my friends are worried about the collection of equipment appearances, which will undoubtedly cause us to miss most of the appearances on the way of leveling! I think this is a question worth considering.

And here's my personal question. Vagrant's Endeavor looks like it's going to take a lot of time to take shape. Does this mean Patch 1.16.6 will be delayed even further? Man I've been waiting for the human hunter for 5 months! I am a RPer, I have everything ready for my future human hunter, I have even finished a dozen of paintings for her, but I can't have her! It's torture for me to waiting even longer. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one dying to have human hunter/Troll lock.

If you're not sure you can give a date, at least consider to release something already done!

[Torta]

Since the equipable items are limited in Vagrant's Endeavor mode, my friends are worried about the collection of equipment appearances, which will undoubtedly cause us to miss most of the appearances on the way of leveling! I think this is a question worth considering.

And here's my personal question. Vagrant's Endeavor looks like it's going to take a lot of time to take shape. Does this mean Patch 1.16.6 will be delayed even further? Man I've been waiting for the human hunter for 5 months! I am a RPer, I have everything ready for my future human hunter, I have even finished a dozen of paintings for her, but I can't have her! It's torture for me to waiting even longer. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one dying to have human hunter/Troll lock.

If you're not sure you can give a date, at least consider to release something already done!

Vagrant's Mode is one day implementation, it didn't delay anything :) The other patch content is still in the works.

[Torta]

So for the new challenge, what happens when enchantments are introduced via trade windows? Or how about if you enchant your own gear?

As of now we don't plan to restrict enchanting for Vagrant's Endeavor. It might change depending on feedback.

[Glarthir]

You ofc have to make the combined title of <Immortal Wanderer> for whoever is crazy enough to complete both challenges

[Gattare]

Since the equipable items are limited in Vagrant's Endeavor mode, my friends are worried about the collection of equipment appearances, which will undoubtedly cause us to miss most of the appearances on the way of leveling! I think this is a question worth considering.

And here's my personal question. Vagrant's Endeavor looks like it's going to take a lot of time to take shape. Does this mean Patch 1.16.6 will be delayed even further? Man I've been waiting for the human hunter for 5 months! I am a RPer, I have everything ready for my future human hunter, I have even finished a dozen of paintings for her, but I can't have her! It's torture for me to waiting even longer. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one dying to have human hunter/Troll lock.

If you're not sure you can give a date, at least consider to release something already done!

Vagrant's Mode is one day implementation, it didn't delay anything :) The other patch content is still in the works.

Good to know, so can we get an approximate release date for Patch 1.16.6?

[Jekka]

Wow i remember way back when hc mode started doing the grey/white gear challenge and it was alot of fun. Didn't make it to the end but will definetly go again for that sweet title and donkey.

[Tridomking]

Please please please add trade & mail restrictions to the Vagrant challenge.
The enchanting cheese is going to cause too large a disparity in the degree of challenge between players who are established on the server vs those who aren't.

[Anonymouse123]

Is there any chance at all Gnomes might someday get a healer class :)

Goes for goblin too - I want a goblin shaman, priest or druid! (heck, paladin works as well)

[Xudo]

Please please please add trade & mail restrictions to the Vagrant challenge.
The enchanting cheese is going to cause too large a disparity in the degree of challenge between players who are established on the server vs those who aren't.

With current set of rules, all nonHC Vagrant challengers will be enchanted like they are preparing for naxx.
I think restrictions on enchanting itself are better. High level enchants are now abused by low level characters on battleground.

[Xerilin]

Minor suggestion, if at all possible: As an additional reward for the amazing title Crazy Cat Lady give a pet that consists of several cats following you arround, so you don't have to make due with one cat at a time as a crazy cat lady.

[Jammyxx]

For the new challenge:

1 No AH or Mail.

2 All Items deleted when challenge taken INCLUDING items on you. (People cheese HC by enchanting Lvl1 items that when equip don't disappear when accepting HC)

3 Broken items can't be repaired

4 No Mounts maybe?

[Nilay]

For the new challenge:

1 No AH or Mail.

2 All Items deleted when challenge taken INCLUDING items on you. (People cheese HC by enchanting Lvl1 items that when equip don't disappear when accepting HC)

3 Broken items can't be repaired

4 No Mounts maybe?

I like the impossibility of repairing. That's cool !

[Oolaatris]

The new challenge would need similar restrictions like HC has on trade/AH/Mail/losing items when starting. Otherwise everyone will just get some white items and get some end game enchants, which negates the whole challenge. I actually kind of like the idea that this challenge could encourage enchanting as a profession for leveling as generally it's not a profession the meta would say is good for leveling.

[Elesion]

New titles & challenges

• Vagrant's Endeavor. Join the Vagrant's Endeavor challenge and bid farewell to the headache of having to pick the right item stats! You'll be forced to wear nothing but poor or common quality gear until you hit level 60. But fear not, once you reach that milestone, you'll be rewarded with the coveted title of "The Wanderer" and a beat-up mule to lug around all your not-so-valuable possessions.
  
  Who needs rare items when you can have a donkey, am I right?
  
  As this challenge is still under development, we kindly ask you to share your vision on the additional rules that must be imposed upon its participants.

"The Wanderer" is not really evocative of poor gear, so to lean into the wandering aspect - how could you tune XP to force people to go to many different zones? Maybe 30% XP from kills, 250% XP from quests? I assume manipulating XP gain is easier than to create a custom mechanic where after 2h in a zone you get a stacking debuff called "Wanderlust" until you leave and go somewhere else. Could also do the opposite: A zone you haven't visited in the last 10 hours of gameplay gives you a 1h buff to your stats.

Some other thoughts:
You will probably accumulate quite a bit of wealth, since you can sell all greens/blues you encounter on the AH (if AH usage is permitted). Doesn't really fit the "vagrant" theme, but a cap on gold seems overly punishing. Maybe trainer skills should be double the price to keep the "poor" feeling?
This seems like a way to subsidize Enchanters and Alchemists. Both boost your strength independent of your gear level. I like the idea of making low-level consumables more desirable and essentially forcing players to buff up with potions seems interesting. To keep this vagrant-ish - maybe limit vagrants to gathering professions? Then you haul resources out of the wilderness to cities to sell so you can afford your enchants and potions from non-vagrant crafters.
Can anyone figure out a way to buff fishing/cooking for vagrants? It would be very thematic to scavenge your own food. Maybe well-fed could be more powerful for vagrants if that is possible?

[Greese]

I think craftable white gear would make a great addition to the survival profession for the upcoming Vagrant glyph.

Crude bow and stone arrows, refillable water skin, clubs, fur wraps, sharp stone fist weapons, pointy stick spears, shivs, etc.

Some sort of crude snare that can only be used against beasts would be thematic as well.

[Tyloris]

I haven't been on the server for all that long and the highest level I've achieved so far is 19, so take my opinions/suggestions with a grain of salt. In regards to the Vagrant's Challenge...

A similar idea has popped up from time to time in Dungeons and Dragons games, particularly in 3rd edition and Pathfinder, where the system expected that the player had a certain amount of stat-boosting items based on their level. In order to combat this, those alternate "vagrant" rulesets would provide inherent bonuses, such as increased armor and ability scores, similar to what you were expected to have from items. I'm not necessarily suggesting that the challenge include inherent bonuses based on level, because A) it would go against the spirit of the challenge, B) the challenge's bonuses might be considered as good as/better than/easier than getting green+ equipment, and C) it would probably cause problems once those players hit level 60, unless only the higher of the two bonuses (equipment or challenge) applies. I do think that the challenge should come with benefits for as you level, similar to War Mode.

For example: Currently, my level 19 Protection Warrior struggles to stay alive even when solo fighting things several levels lower than him. Maybe the warrior is suboptimal at those levels, maybe I didn't optimize my talents correctly, or maybe I just suck. But I haven't been able to afford much more than equipment repairs and only some of my new skills. If I was designing the Vagrant's Challenge, I would increase the amount of gold received from monster kills. Not necessarily a lot, but enough to both take the edge off of having to repair your equipment more often, can afford to expand your bank quicker for all that excess loot and, more importantly, that you can go to equipment vendors whenever a new tier of armor and weapons opens up so that you don't lag behind other players too much. Alternatively, give a vendor discount to Vagrant players so that they don't have to drop several gold on equipment every seven levels.



On a different note, could we have some sort of visual indicator for hardcore players on their nameplates and in chat? Maybe a red skull after their name, changing to a white halo at level 60. That way when a person is looking for a group or trade you automatically know whether they are hardcore or not.

I think craftable white gear would make a great addition to the survival profession for the upcoming Vagrant glyph.

Crude bow and stone arrows, refillable water skin, clubs, fur wraps, sharp stone fist weapons, pointy stick spears, shivs, etc.

Some sort of crude snare that can only be used against beasts would be thematic as well.

I second this idea.

[Jekka]

The best thing I remember about doing a personal grey/white item challenge mixed with HC mode is that now all those small stat upgrades in professions become super important. Armor kits, sharpening stones, enchants, food, and potions become premium items.

There are also a few white quality gear that can be crafted which is a plus (if you survive to use it). Also a great way to get mount money early selling quest gear and green drops you go. I wonder what's the highest level grey/white quality gear you can get on this server?

[Geojak]

i rly like how Vagrant's Endeavor is gonna make white and greyitems somewhat relveant. good mode addition!!

[Geojak]

The new challenge would need similar restrictions like HC has on trade/AH/Mail/losing items when starting. Otherwise everyone will just get some white items and get some end game enchants, which negates the whole challenge. I actually kind of like the idea that this challenge could encourage enchanting as a profession for leveling as generally it's not a profession the meta would say is good for leveling.

i disagree on this take. let them enchant. its a uique challange and up to the palyer to seek solutions

[Astrallizard]

Should the version not be changed into 1.17.0? It is a major update with many changes and lots of new content.

[Daffyness]

I am greatly looking forward to this challenge mode reminiscent of some of the Iron Man modes. That said, I think some of us may be getting a little carried away. Not that the ideas are bad, but simply have to take into account the coding necessary to implement them. Not being a programmer myself I have no idea how difficult or annoying it would be; last time I wrote a program it was in the hot new language called Pascal, so.... I do know the more you add the more debugging and delays come with it.

That said, the nice thing about RP servers is you can place any restrictions on yourself that you want, and it's still in the spirit of the server.

But since no Wanderer is complete without their walking stick, I would like to propose along with it the Woodcrafting profession for staves, bows, arrows, camp stools, whatever. Carve yourself a nice walking stick that doubles as a shillelagh, or a cute animal toy as a pet (or a scout, or a vorpal bunny). Engineers can make guns and bullets (that do additional damage over purchased ones), but those of us that prefer bows need to find or buy them.

Just my 1/5th of a cent.

[Ejav94]

I would love for vagrant mode to create an expensive economy surrounding the best white items. No restrictions on ah/trading for vagrants. If someone wants BIS white item, be willing to pay 500g for it.

[Plainbear]

Hardcore
Slow and Steady
Exhausted
Vagrand
Frog

That's the ultimate challenge

[Xudo]

I think that people with Vagrant challenge should not be able to use LFT.
If you use it, you are expected to fullfill some role. But gear in wow is important and one could not fill role. Especially tank and healer role in dungeons.