Give Shadow priest AOE spell

[Mativh]

A spiritual leader of a faction would interact with lots of their allies, not with lots of enemies. Priests AoE buffs & heals are excellent. so from a lore perspective it fits perfectly. Especially considering that Shadowpriests are by most of the races considerid less than pure individuals who should be avoided, similar to warlocks.

Shadow Priests are the spiritual leaders of the Forsaken, the cult of the forgotten shadow is a part of the society's leadership, not some avoided individuals. And the Shadow spec has been inspired by the Forsaken Shadow Priests (which is a standardization I'm not fond of).
The Troll Priests are Loa worshippers, they never had a relation with the holy light, so the ingame class is inacurate, but many Loa Priests resemble Shadow Priests.
In Human (and by extension Dwarf and High Elf) societies, the Shadow Priests are indeed the opposition to their holy light based "mainstream" priests, but they aren't lone wolves like the warlocks, but evil cult leaders, corrupt priests, or "balance" priests that are in fact proto-forsaken shadow priests.
Night Elves don't have holy light churches, but Priests worshipping Elune, so it's inacurate in the game as well, and their opposite in lore would be Night Elf Priests that either turned against Elune, or venerate the night and use shadow magic like the Warden hero from W3 (and aren't necessarily evil).
The same way they are oriented to a multitude of friendly targets, they could have an ability to do so towards enemies, so there is no lore/fantasy limitation for a shadow priest doing AOE.

But by inviting the comparison to Mage, you also have to consider what upsides priests have over mage. You offer a similar amount of CC to mage with AoE Fear, blackout stuns, mindflay slow and shackle undead. So in the CC department, you are comparable to them. Yet you have the most powerful ability as a class that anyone can have in WoW - healing. choosing not to use it still leaves this tool in your toolbox and gives you the option to either shield & heal yourself in an emergency rather than dying. For a mage there is no choice. he will die.
Additionally you bring a passive damage reduction against physical damage while your manaregeneration buff is active. Mage has to choose either of the two options.

The point is that all classes have their unique ways of having survivability/cc, and of dealing single/multi target damage. Your argument that priest can survive better than a mage or a warlock (I've never experienced a noticeable gap, they have different playstyles), and that's why the shadow priest shouldn't have multi-target attacks, doesn't make sense to me, because:
- Warlock can self heal, has similar CC to a Priest, has a pet
- Mage has mana shield (and in my opinion has superior CC to a Priest)
- Both Warlock and Mage deal better single target damage, as well as AOE, compared to a Shadow Priest
- Shadow Priest has somewhat better single target burst damage, which is useful in PvP, but being able to deal AOE doesn't collide with this
- better/worse survivability for spellcasters shouldn't factor in not giving them aoe capability

So with already established that priest doesn't deserve an AoE spell, id like to point out, that blizzard has been gracious enough to gift holy nova to priest as a sidegrade to Inner focus. you even get to pick an aoe if you want one. But i guess yellow is not edgy enough of a color.

EDIT:
Holy nova being bad is certainly a disucission to be had, but its a MUCH smaller ask adjusting a existing spell than granting a class a perfect fix for their bigest weakness and discarding existing toolkits because they have some drawbacks

As you've said yourself, the priest already has an AOE, so the supposed priest identity that excludes AOE is nonexistent.
So if it is alright for holy/discipline priests to deal holy aoe damage, there shouldn't be a problem with the shadow priest having means to deal some form of shadow aoe damage.
Healing/Shielding and holy damage cannot be done in Shadow form, and are not ment to be part of the Shadow Priest fantasy (one could argue that they should have additional limitations, like not being able to cast holy/discipline abilities for X seconds after one casts a shadow ability).

[Kairion]

Is it already cherrypicking season?
Then let me also indulge in this fun past time:

Even the within the factions that do respect shadowpriests - the priester interacts with their own faction. They do not wander into the world and face enemies in combat. Skills like Hellfire and Whirlwind are there for people who see themselves in situations against multiple foes they can't smoothalk.

Priest literally mind soothe so even in their most "evil" incarnation. they do like to not get down and dirty themselves. They'd much rather risk their warriors life than their own.

Moonmagic/celestial power is associated with the arcane school. not with shadow in the world of warcraft lore. The priests of the Nightelfes are called priestesses of the moon. Starshard & Moonfire both are arcane spells. A Shadowpriest is not welcome in the ranks of nightelves, as its powers are associated with the powers that brought down the highelves in the past.

Mage and Warlocks indeed have their own defensive spells. That does not deter from the fact that they are substantially worse than priests in the selfheal department. And since we invite the comparison once again. Warlock also has excellent shadow synergy and TWO SEPARATE specs scaling with shadowdamage. Guess what, he also has to make do with Fire AoE

Every class being able to heal themselves at will, deal decent single & aoe damage, tank, kite, and cc is what brought us modern wow, and i think we can agree that modern wow went wrong somewhere and we shouldn't actively try to repeat all of blizzards mistakes with custom class changes.

I'm absolutely fine with priest using what they have in their Toolkit already to deal AoE damage. I'm actually in favor for making it more useful.
It is a spall that - contrary to some shadow bullshit actually thematically fits with the class identity.
But you bitch about not having access to a tool your class has. Its like hunters saying they really really need a stun for their pet. But refusing to go beastmaster to get it. It makes absolutely no sense to give Priest a copy of a tool he already has access to.

Shadowpriests and Discipline priests at the end of the day are still priests. There is no dichotomy between shadow priests and others that forbids them to use eachothers toolkit. You specifically want access to Inner focus which is btw from the holy school. So casting shields and holy spells is perfectly within the shadow priests possibility.

... now i kinda wanna give shadowpriests their shitty aoe but remove any non shadow spell from their spellbook. That would be kinda funny to watch...

[Shamma]

... now i kinda wanna give shadowpriests their shitty aoe but remove any non shadow spell from their spellbook. That would be kinda funny to watch...

I got an idea - Talent in the shadow tree that modifies PW: Shield. When picked it changes PW: Shield in such a way, that it no longer protects the caster, but instead has a melee range AOE aura.

So trade off is - lose bubble, gain mediocre melee range aoe.

[Mativh]

I got an idea - Talent in the shadow tree that modifies PW: Shield. When picked it changes PW: Shield in such a way, that it no longer protects the caster, but instead has a melee range AOE aura.

So trade off is - lose bubble, gain mediocre melee range aoe.

That could be interesting indeed, instead of talents perhaps a quest, and as a reward there would be presented multiple options to choose from, each a different ability/passive. That way one could shape the character to be oriented towards a specific role or a fantasy. For example a choice between being better in aoe or single target or survival or support for the shadow spec. Or as you've mentioned, diving more into the one of the specs, at the expense of being jack of all trades, or viceversa.

[Kairion]

Priest only quest: a strange choice
Quest reward: turn into warlock

[Shamma]

Priest only quest: a strange choice
Quest reward: turn into warlock

I honestly lol-ed at this.

[Shamma]

I got an idea - Talent in the shadow tree that modifies PW: Shield. When picked it changes PW: Shield in such a way, that it no longer protects the caster, but instead has a melee range AOE aura.

So trade off is - lose bubble, gain mediocre melee range aoe.

That could be interesting indeed, instead of talents perhaps a quest, and as a reward there would be presented multiple options to choose from, each a different ability/passive. That way one could shape the character to be oriented towards a specific role or a fantasy. For example a choice between being better in aoe or single target or survival or support for the shadow spec. Or as you've mentioned, diving more into the one of the specs, at the expense of being jack of all trades, or viceversa.

Mate, we have talents exactly for this - dive more into a different fantasy. No need for quests to achieve the same goal.

[Mativh]

Mate, we have talents exactly for this - dive more into a different fantasy. No need for quests to achieve the same goal.

You also have class trainers to learn abilities, and sometimes there are quests that reward learning an ability, my suggestion was having multiple abilities to choose from in such a quest, not so far fetched. No need to occupy space in the talent tree for it. You have suggested a talent that would teach one ability but unlearn another one which was paid for beforehand from a class trainer, or perhap lock another talent, it seems kind of clumsy to me and would allow only to choose between 2 abilities/passives, compared to multiple choices from a quest, which also feels better, to choose a path, to learn something from clearly presented options, rather than learning something and that causing the unlearning of other things or locking them from learning in the future, which is kind of non-immersive and gamey.
So your idea of having the freedom to specialize with the class by choosing between abilities or passives is good, but I think more suitable to be quest reward options, which already exists in the game (a quest that rewards learning an ability), so it would be easier to implement, rather than coming up with a new mechanism in the talent trees.

[Mativh]

Is it already cherrypicking season?
Then let me also indulge in this fun past time:

Even the within the factions that do respect shadowpriests - the priester interacts with their own faction. They do not wander into the world and face enemies in combat. Skills like Hellfire and Whirlwind are there for people who see themselves in situations against multiple foes they can't smoothalk.

Priest literally mind soothe so even in their most "evil" incarnation. they do like to not get down and dirty themselves. They'd much rather risk their warriors life than their own.

Moonmagic/celestial power is associated with the arcane school. not with shadow in the world of warcraft lore. The priests of the Nightelfes are called priestesses of the moon. Starshard & Moonfire both are arcane spells. A Shadowpriest is not welcome in the ranks of nightelves, as its powers are associated with the powers that brought down the highelves in the past.

Mage and Warlocks indeed have their own defensive spells. That does not deter from the fact that they are substantially worse than priests in the selfheal department. And since we invite the comparison once again. Warlock also has excellent shadow synergy and TWO SEPARATE specs scaling with shadowdamage. Guess what, he also has to make do with Fire AoE

Every class being able to heal themselves at will, deal decent single & aoe damage, tank, kite, and cc is what brought us modern wow, and i think we can agree that modern wow went wrong somewhere and we shouldn't actively try to repeat all of blizzards mistakes with custom class changes.

I'm absolutely fine with priest using what they have in their Toolkit already to deal AoE damage. I'm actually in favor for making it more useful.
It is a spall that - contrary to some shadow bullshit actually thematically fits with the class identity.
But you bitch about not having access to a tool your class has. Its like hunters saying they really really need a stun for their pet. But refusing to go beastmaster to get it. It makes absolutely no sense to give Priest a copy of a tool he already has access to.

Shadowpriests and Discipline priests at the end of the day are still priests. There is no dichotomy between shadow priests and others that forbids them to use eachothers toolkit. You specifically want access to Inner focus which is btw from the holy school. So casting shields and holy spells is perfectly within the shadow priests possibility.

... now i kinda wanna give shadowpriests their shitty aoe but remove any non shadow spell from their spellbook. That would be kinda funny to watch...

Priests of all specs have offensive abilities and do wander into the world and face enemies. NE shadow priests lore-wise would fit as I've said as venerating th night or wardens, in WoW they were given the generic forsaken shadow ascentant shadow priest, but they could have as well an aoe that is arcane or shadow based as long as it's lore-adequate.

You were saying the whole time that priests don't deserve to have an AOE because they can self heal, now you claim that since they have a holy AOE it should be made stronger because there is no dichotomy between a shadow and a holy priest, which isn't true, there is a reason you can't use holy spells in shadowform, the priest has the greatest dichotomy among it's specs from all classes, a warlock which you used as an example uses shadow magic but not of psychic or void origin but of fel, same as his fire spells, the warlock doesnt have a affliction form that would prevent him from using fire spells, as all of it is ment to be fel magic.

[Mativh]

Priest only quest: a strange choice
Quest reward: turn into warlock

I honestly lol-ed at this.

I find it curious that you did, because it was you in the first place who has suggesed to have a talent that would grant a shadow aoe at the expense of pw:shield.
And I've only said that it is a good idea to give such choices (not neccesarily that specific one), but it would be more suitable from a quest with multiple ability rewards to choose from (as quests that reward an ability already exist, but talents that unlearn/lock other abilities don't).

And it is also curious that he'd say that this idea (which fundamentally is yours), of choice between holy and shadow, or simply giving a shadow priest shadow-based aoe, would turn the priest into a lock, but he wants to empower the priests holy aoe, yet according to that logic it should also turn the priest into a paladin, since paladins have holy aoe as well.

[Shamma]

Mate, we have talents exactly for this - dive more into a different fantasy. No need for quests to achieve the same goal.

You also have class trainers to learn abilities, and sometimes there are quests that reward learning an ability, my suggestion was having multiple abilities to choose from in such a quest, not so far fetched. No need to occupy space in the talent tree for it. You have suggested a talent that would teach one ability but unlearn another one which was paid for beforehand from a class trainer, or perhap lock another talent, it seems kind of clumsy to me and would allow only to choose between 2 abilities/passives, compared to multiple choices from a quest, which also feels better, to choose a path, to learn something from clearly presented options, rather than learning something and that causing the unlearning of other things or locking them from learning in the future, which is kind of non-immersive and gamey.
So your idea of having the freedom to specialize with the class by choosing between abilities or passives is good, but I think more suitable to be quest reward options, which already exists in the game (a quest that rewards learning an ability), so it would be easier to implement, rather than coming up with a new mechanism in the talent trees.

??? The only reason talent trees exist is to choose between different abilities. This is what talents do. The main reason the feature "talent trees" exists. Changing how a skill works through a talent is so very basic. So many talents for all classes do just that - change the spell in some way.

Yes doable with a quest too. Definitely not easier though. For 2 reasons:
1. The idea I am pushing is take away a good skill and give AoE in exchange. Not give AoE on top of what is already there.
2. This is supposed to only be available to shadow priests. No quests available in WoW for only 1 spec. All class quests are available for all specs. Making something available to only 1 spec is currently only done with a talent in that spec's tree.

[Shamma]

Priest only quest: a strange choice
Quest reward: turn into warlock

I honestly lol-ed at this.

I find it curious that you did, because it was you in the first place who has suggesed to have a talent that would grant a shadow aoe at the expense of pw:shield.
And I've only said that it is a good idea to give such choices (not neccesarily that specific one), but it would be more suitable from a quest with multiple ability rewards to choose from (as quests that reward an ability already exist, but talents that unlearn/lock other abilities don't).

And it is also curious that he'd say that this idea (which fundamentally is yours), of choice between holy and shadow, or simply giving a shadow priest shadow-based aoe, would turn the priest into a lock, but he wants to empower the priests holy aoe, yet according to that logic it should also turn the priest into a paladin, since paladins have holy aoe as well.

This is a joke by Kairon. Such an obvious and funny joke. So I got the joke and laughed at it. I liked it.

[Shamma]

the priest has the greatest dichotomy among it's specs from all classes

This is wrong. The druids send their regards.

[Mativh]

Let's be clear;
- is the priests identity about not having AOE? Because the priest already has holy AOE, just like the paladin does.
- Is the Shadow priest identity about not having shadow AOE? No, none of the classes have shadow aoe, lock has fel magic based fire, mage has arcane magic based fire/frost, the druid and shaman have nature-based aoe. Only one who lacks aoe apart from the shadow priest from all classes is the rogue, for whom it makes sense to be single-target focused at the expense of aoe.
- Is the Shadow Priest identity about being a single target spell-caster? No, both warlock and mage excell at single target comparatively, and also have aoe, druid and shaman have similar damage ouput, can heal themselves, and have aoe (which disproves previously mentioned arguments about priests identity being about having self-heal so they shouldn't have aoe, other spellcaster either have it as well or have other means of defense yet they also have aoe)
- Is the priest identity about combining holy with shadow? In the lore, no, in-game mechanics permit it although there is an attempt to guide against it, if one goes deeper into the shadow spec with shadow form not allowing holy spells.

The Shadow Priest is overdue for some form of shadow-based aoe ability.

May it be a weaker one affecting all in an area like other spellcasters have, or (in my opinion preferably) a multi-target aoe ability. It could even be a semi-aoe, something affecting multiple targets as a result of using the single target abilities.
With an emphasis that the shadow priest doesn't cause an elemental form of damage, priests shadow is psychic and supernatural, there is no shadow bolts and it isn't necessarily an unholy school of magic, it is belief and psyche related, coming from within and altering the inner state of the opponent (in all except for NE where it could be related to Elune where it could be arcane based).
It could also be frost-based, being the opposite of fire which is associated with holy school of magic.

[Shamma]

I would be ok with making holy nova a base priest ability if that is the question. Just like consecration was made into a base ability for paladins here (was a holy talent in classic).
I am against adding an AoE usable in shadowform (w/o at least some nerf to it - hence the PW: Shield suggestion).
If the priest needs to drop shadowform before AoE (with holy nova) - then ok. I can see the argument for that, even though I am not convinced that it is needed.

Arguments were made that priests need on shadow dmg gear, so their holy nova will be weak. Yeah, duh... Correct. It should be weaker than warlock/mage AoE. Feral druids need to pop out of form to AoE. Theirs has a long CD. It is worse than holy nova. They do not have spell power either.

[Alrighty2]

Spriests can get AoE when blade flurry becomes a toggle and blackout is removed from the game.

why is paladin getting a taunt and a spammable single target burst CD without any draw back? bias much?

[Alrighty2]

I would be ok with making holy nova a base priest ability if that is the question. Just like consecration was made into a base ability for paladins here (was a holy talent in classic).
I am against adding an AoE usable in shadowform (w/o at least some nerf to it - hence the PW: Shield suggestion).
If the priest needs to drop shadowform before AoE (with holy nova) - then ok. I can see the argument for that, even though I am not convinced that it is needed.

Arguments were made that priests need on shadow dmg gear, so their holy nova will be weak. Yeah, duh... Correct. It should be weaker than warlock/mage AoE. Feral druids need to pop out of form to AoE. Theirs has a long CD. It is worse than holy nova. They do not have spell power either.

that s not just weaker but anti-humanity, who drop off form mid-run to use a completely different school of spell to aoe. it is vanilla + server not vanilla. you want plain old vanilla just got the E server. making classes more complete with their toolkit is part of the "+"

[Shamma]

that s not just weaker but anti-humanity, who drop off form mid-run to use a completely different school of spell to aoe. it is vanilla + server not vanilla. you want plain old vanilla just got the E server. making classes more complete with their toolkit is part of the "+"

Feral druids send their regards.
And wholeheartedly disagree with your interpretation of the "+". For me the "+" comes from the extra content, the cross-faction grouping, the glyphs (game modes) not the changed classes. The class changes are meh. Do not care about them. Rather the classes be more different/flavorful and generally nerfed across the board to make the game more challenging.

Anyway Torta said 2 days ago on discord further class changes will not be happening again anytime soon. So this whole discussion might or might not be implemented, but not going to be before at least 10 further similar discussions happen anyway.

[Akuraigan]

Give them a CD of 2minutes to spread SW:P in a 10 yard aoe

[Kairion]

Or don't and acrually give smitepriest the edge in aoe scenarios?

[Akuraigan]

we are talking about shadow stuff here mate

[Pahacsinta]

Imagine shadow priest with aoe in pvp