Everyone can be a TANK,Very urgent

[Gnomoerectus]

If you feel like there's a tank shortage and you can't find tanks for your groups, roll a tank. Problem solved.

Make it less stressful and more accessible and people will do that. *points to threat model*

So, ruin tanking for those who currently enjoy it?

[Camanchaca]

Well, shaman tanks are more viable with the new talents.

This class could be pushed forward with better itemization perhaps. I think this is an opportunity to increase professions value. For example new blacksmithing recipes could be introduced to make tank oriented mail up to lvl 60 (this could even lead to some sort of elemental blacksmithing spec).

This would make sense lorewise and would help tank shamans, without replacing the uses of dragonscale leatherworking (which would make mail gear for every other role and for hunters).

A similar case could be made for warlocks, since with SL and the new searing pain pushback reduction talent they may become more viable... although only at high levels where they can take both talents. Maybe a BoP pushback reduction item made with tailoring or a similar enchant could be introduced so demonology warlocks could tank from lvl 40.

The main principle is that this would give players a way "to figure it out" instead of just giving raw power increases which is what retail did.

Also, if you payed tanks for runs i'm sure more ppl would suddenly appear for tanking ur dungeons :)

[Markuis]

Reason 1: class appeal

You have 3 of the least appealing classes as the only possible tanks, while the classes for the people who historically love responsibility and "carrying" in tabletop roleplay can't tank (tracker and wizard).

Ask around how many hunters would be eager to play beastmaster tank, survival healer, or mages would love to play CC tank, and you'll be surprised.

Hunters, in my experience, follow and love their class fantasy, and become greatly disappointed when they realize they have to swap off to a class they wouldn't play if they want to keep taking, after they have self tanked all the way to 60.

Agree.

In fact, my idea around this is something that I already posted in the new item suggestion thread just a bit ago, because it takes the form of an item set that enables that sort of playstyle for certain classes. I'll toss the images here as well just for a quick example.

If the only way for those classes to tank is by gear, well, there should be a massive amount of items to make it possible. Items for each level range, dungeons, etc. I think a talent/spell approach would work much better (in addition to some items) as you could disable some dps part of the char while gaining certain defensive buffs. Items would just boost the defensive buff further.

[Breidr]

So, ruin tanking for those who currently enjoy it?

Well, obviously folks want something done. I'm not a game designer, but I'm EVERY MMO there is a shortage of tanks, so I get why folks are frustrated.

Most games have approached this by making roles outside DPS more accessible, whether that be through a mechanical change, class reworks, you name it.

It's a GAME, and as long as tanks have to deal with extra responsibility and social criticism, they will always be in short supply. Think about that next time you tell a tank they suck.

Vanilla tanking will always be niche, not much will change that.

[Schwa]

this is a design change i like, but it is way off from what vanilla was.

here is my 2 cents.

i think all classes should be able to do all roles. and most specs should be able to do all roles.

tank, heal, sustain damage (aka raid dps), burst damage (aka pvp)

the core class design should be a sustain damage style.

then to make the class more bursty it is about moving cast time around. instead of being in range and casting onto a target, you precast some array of self buffs to make your pvp casts go faster.

to be more tanky, you take the burst the other direction, instead of dilating in the cast time, you give the character capacity to sustain being damaged and boost threat. maybe you have a chance on hit to give yourself a shield, maybe you regen health or can armor up, but instead of damaging more, you get more inc damage mitigation. that incoming damage should both generate threat, but also the stylized for class method of mitigation.

destruction locks, should have a chance of fearing a target for 3 secconds when burning them. this mitigates damage by making the target move away, and stop attacking.

mages should be able to poly a boss, which takes a couple secconds to become a sheep and break it. the sheep cast should be channeled. mages also should have elemental shields similar to magic school protection potions.

healing similarly should be based on taking the class theme and allowing it to have similar overt playstyle.

a healing rogue, should have basicly the exact same kit but with different names themed after a trauma surgeon. instead of kick interupting a spell, it should make the spell instantly finish. this is done by using twos-complement on the values.

a tanking rogue should have a different role of evasion, longer duration, slightly higher dodge chance, and cooldown reduced.

having a simple boost of armor could make it easier to tank, but it doesn't fix the play variety of the original design.

there isn't a spec for each class devoted to each role. and there isn't even a way to transform the different specs into the roles.

hunters with some specific mob, lets say wolves, shoudl be able to spec the wolve to main tank sacrificing some damage for it to fit the role.

warlocks should be able to get their void walker to also main tank a dungeon, with spells keeping it alive. but there just isn't the synergy of kits to give tanking options to players.

even the easy ones like frost mages, they dont have enough boosts to frost effects to allow them to tank. they also can't spec so that over heals replenish mana. it just isn't the design.

[Schwa]

What if Shadow Priest, Retribution Paladin, Cat druid, or Fury Warrior ARE how I want to play, and these are the spec combinations for how I want to play?
Don't let the "Heh, sorry bucko, but it seems you're the wrong spec. What's that? You wanted to be a DPS? Better level a DPS class to 60, pal" mentality dictate how you want to play the game.
If I want to play a DPS warrior, druid, paladin or priest, there are literally DPS specs built into the game.

Why exactly you can't fullfill tank role as retribution paladin or fury warrior?
Class and spec combination is not the same as role in 5man dungeon.
I do understand that mages and warlocks have problem with tanking. But mail and plate wearers are resilent enough to undure some damage.

What if somebody doesn't want to play the tank role?

why complain about not being able to be a tank, if you don't want to be a tank? it is literally the topic of the thread.

the way the classes should be designed is with 3 completely viable themes or specs, and the specs should have 4 main paths of progression in style which takes the core flavor of the spec into the 4 different roles. raid damage, pvp, healing, and tanking.

do you want to play a beast master? so your pet is center stage. is the pet a companion to help heal, or are they an absolute beast terrifying your enemies? do they focus on auto casts or auto attacks? do you buff their abilities? do you activate them? do you swap character playing as teh pet while your 'master' is following you arround shooting stuff with a bow or gun?

there is a ton of style opportunity and it is lost if you spread druid armor and health increase to everyone, or shadow priest passive healing to everyone.

do you want to play a frost mage and tank? can you slow down incoming attacks? can you control where mobs are and dampen their damage by getting them out of range of the group?

the problem is that redoing the class design to get those four roles viable and unique for every class flavor, is that it is a huge redesign.

"but if druid just boosts armor and health, surely that can work for other classes right?"
yeah, but that is stylisticly ugly. it is the same type of thing as giving pally flash of light and holy light spells. you can make it so you have a hot fix patch which bandages over the problem. but all of the classes which use this will largely feel like a congealed mass.

[Bellybutton]

Why exactly you can't fullfill tank role as retribution paladin or fury warrior?
Class and spec combination is not the same as role in 5man dungeon.
I do understand that mages and warlocks have problem with tanking. But mail and plate wearers are resilent enough to undure some damage.

What if somebody doesn't want to play the tank role?

why complain about not being able to be a tank, if you don't want to be a tank? it is literally the topic of the thread.

the way the classes should be designed is with 3 completely viable themes or specs, and the specs should have 4 main paths of progression in style which takes the core flavor of the spec into the 4 different roles. raid damage, pvp, healing, and tanking.

do you want to play a beast master? so your pet is center stage. is the pet a companion to help heal, or are they an absolute beast terrifying your enemies? do they focus on auto casts or auto attacks? do you buff their abilities? do you activate them? do you swap character playing as teh pet while your 'master' is following you arround shooting stuff with a bow or gun?

there is a ton of style opportunity and it is lost if you spread druid armor and health increase to everyone, or shadow priest passive healing to everyone.

do you want to play a frost mage and tank? can you slow down incoming attacks? can you control where mobs are and dampen their damage by getting them out of range of the group?

the problem is that redoing the class design to get those four roles viable and unique for every class flavor, is that it is a huge redesign.

"but if druid just boosts armor and health, surely that can work for other classes right?"
yeah, but that is stylisticly ugly. it is the same type of thing as giving pally flash of light and holy light spells. you can make it so you have a hot fix patch which bandages over the problem. but all of the classes which use this will largely feel like a congealed mass.

I never said I wanted these specs to be able to tank, read the comment chain. I'm responding to somebody who says you shouldn't play a warrior if you don't want to tank (despite warrior coming with two DPS specs).

[Andima]

I do not agree with the suggestion given by the creator of this thread. I do agree on the lack of tank players (specially for dungeons) but that has been the norm since the very beginning of WoW. ¿is it a feature or a bug?

I think that if most of the time, most of the player cant find a party for a dungeon, there is a problem that should be adressed.

I would like to point out a few probable causes for this situation, and a way to fix it. (i am always talking about 5man dungeon, not raid)

-Game Mechanics: idealy, 1 of every 5 player (20%) should be a tank in order to achieve statistic equality, but only 3 out of 27 specs are designed for a tanking role (prot.warr, prot.pala,fera.drui) that makes it 11% of the 'pool'. As it was noted before, other specs may be good enough for tank run (fury.warr, ret.pala, enh.sham) however that is not true for most of the 40+ dungeons and some of the 40- dungeons.
My point here is that by raising the numer of specs able to tank properly we may have shorter LFT queues.
For example, i would like to see proper spells, talents and itemization for tanking shamans to the level of the other 3 classes mentioned above. Also, there are other specs that may fun to play with a 'tankier aproach' such as tha frost.mage, beast.hunt, or comb.rogu (remeber that bucklers were designed for hunts and rogs)

-Player Interactions: Tanking is a great responsability and you are ment to lead the party trough the dungeon. Many non-tank players twist this concept to the very limit (mostly on retail, not that often in Twow as far as i have played) and presumes or demands that the tank in the party knows every single mechanic of the mobs, the optimal path across the dungeon and not to even drop agro once. If the tanks fails at this, is instantly bullied. No wonder no one wants to tank.
My point here is that a part of this problem is not because of the game but because of the players. Just be kind and lovely with the tanks, apreciate the burden of their responsability and more player will try to play the role.


Just my tip on the topic

[Xudo]

In fact, my idea around this is something that I already posted in the new item suggestion thread just a bit ago, because it takes the form of an item set that enables that sort of playstyle for certain classes. I'll toss the images here as well just for a quick example.

If the only way for those classes to tank is by gear, well, there should be a massive amount of items to make it possible. Items for each level range, dungeons, etc. I think a talent/spell approach would work much better (in addition to some items) as you could disable some dps part of the char while gaining certain defensive buffs. Items would just boost the defensive buff further.

I think that making "special" gear for cloth wearers is a bad idea. Mages have special playstyle which is based on avoiding damage instead of enduring it.
Tanking as a mage is a kiting. But kiting in dungeons in not always possible. Sometimes there is little room for running.
If you make a mage what is supposed to endure damage, then you end up with someting like Death Knight.

If you make some special talent/spell, then you should consider PvP part too. New tanking talent/spell should not become overpowered in PvP.

Problem of tanking is understanding of threat model and saving healers. Thats why I think that mages should help more durable party member to manage threat.
For example buff "Cold star". You apply magical shield to your party member which absorb little damage. When it depletes, then all enemies around the buffed party member get some damage and slow movement speed. Threat from this damage should go to buffed party member.
Cooldown 10 seconds (or shares with frost nova).

If the tanks fails at this, is instantly bullied.

You can't change people.
Right now there is a contest between DPS and a tank in terms of threat. And this is crux of this problem.
PvE is supposed to be cooperative, not competitive playstyle. If we give DPS spells to help other player to tank, then we could achieve this goal.
All we have now is talents to reduce produced threat and skill like Feint to reduce current threat.

[Shamma]

Retail folk have invaded Turtle. HELP!

[Sinrek]

Bloody hell… Cease and desist!

[Ishilu]

NO META BABY ALL FUN AND GAMES

THIS!!!111

Also, I fully agree that many potential tanks are too squeamish to just step up to their full potential (healers, too).

I believe this also comes from the retail/lichking "style" that many people try to play these days. I feel like the use of CC was much more common "back then", which made tanking and healing a little bit easier. These days, many dps don't really seem to think about how they can make the jobs of tanks and healers easier.

So, I don't think that we need any tank buffs but rather need a significant part of the playerbase to adjust their mindset to vanilla and stop trying to play Lich King or retail instead of true WoW .

Considering myself a veteran, I think it falls to the old guys to patiently nudge newcomers into the right direction here. I've done some teaching in low level dungeons which was well recieved when applied in the right tone. A little bit of encouragement goes a long way.


Also, I think this new lightning shield talent for enhancers is a wasted opportunity to give shamans a taunting ability. Experience shows that we don't really need that, either, so it doesn't matter .

[Bruhh]

So what you're saying is I can off-tank as a Holy Paladin? That'd be pretty rad. If only I knew how to spec it...

[Shamma]

What do u want to off-tank? This whole post deals with 5man grps. You can off-tank as a paladin w/o spending a single point into any talent. But there is not much if anything to off-tank in the 1st place!

[Breidr]

NO META BABY ALL FUN AND GAMES

THIS!!!111

Also, I fully agree that many potential tanks are too squeamish to just step up to their full potential (healers, too).

I believe this also comes from the retail/lichking "style" that many people try to play these days. I feel like the use of CC was much more common "back then", which made tanking and healing a little bit easier. These days, many dps don't really seem to think about how they can make the jobs of tanks and healers easier.

So, I don't think that we need any tank buffs but rather need a significant part of the playerbase to adjust their mindset to vanilla and stop trying to play Lich King or retail instead of true WoW .

Considering myself a veteran, I think it falls to the old guys to patiently nudge newcomers into the right direction here. I've done some teaching in low level dungeons which was well recieved when applied in the right tone. A little bit of encouragement goes a long way.


Also, I think this new lightning shield talent for enhancers is a wasted opportunity to give shamans a taunting ability. Experience shows that we don't really need that, either, so it doesn't matter .

I have been thinking, and I would be willing to tank if there was proper "instruction" in game, like you suggest. I'm not going to try and learn tanking as long as "veterans" demand perfection in a damn video game. I want to play a warrior, but won't since I have no desire to tank. I also have this Paladin I've put on the back burner because I can't stand buff times and judging seals.

A lot of people will disagree, but increased buff duration and seals not being consumed on judgement was a change in WotLK that I liked.

[Camanchaca]

After tanking a few runs of SM on my shaman, id say that the lack of taunt is not a real issue. The main issue is the lack of defensive spells.

I agree this is more in the paladin department, but for example enabling a first rank of earth shield to be obtainable at lvl ~36 should improve survivability and treath generation while enabling a fun and engaging active tanking style. I talk about the same spell that already exists in Turtle WoW, but at lvl 60 only.

A similar argument could be made for water shield, but it could be obtainable from lvl 40+ i guess, i have not yet tanked that content as a shaman. I will keep you posted

[F0rmshifter]

Well I’m working my way up with a prot paladin. Lvl 10 now and can’t wait to start tanking dungeons. I’ll be along to save you soon, op

[Mativh]

WoW beyond vanilla standardized all roles, it was good in a sense thst you could become competent in a role of your choice at the expense of others, and not have to be jack of all trades, but also if you wanted to be, you could less and less with every expansion.

A good class design is one that allows both things, if you look at warcraft 3 the heroes in it aren't cookie cutter standardized roles, but each a unique class concept, that is what vanilla wows aim was with classes. I say may a class be able to be full tank, full dps, or a combination of two in a choosen measure and with a personal unique touch.

In the spirit of early wows hybrid classes, what there could be is skills/talents that would allow versatile specializations and more dynamic roles in dungeons, for example able to be half tanks/dps/heal - enha shamans (were planned to be tanks originally, could be tank/dps), discipline priests (were planned to be melee monks originally, with inner fire and pw shield could be partly tank/heal), arcane mage could use mana shield, affli lock life drain, survival hunter the various avoidances and the pet, rogue the dodge and cc etc.

In early wow what was different is that there was room for creativity and unorthodox experimental solutions to the challenges, as wow progressed it became more and more standardized to the point where people stand in the capital, open a window, choose a role, the role which they are and which they play scripted almost on automatic mode with strangers, teleported in and out. That is not the way of early wow, unique creative builds are, not adhering to rigid structures is. Classes being able to specialize on a role more is a good change turtle wow brought, but also to be unique hybrids and not having strict roles should be encouraged.

[Ishilu]

I'm not going to try and learn tanking as long as "veterans" demand perfection in a damn video game.

I see your point and these guys are part of the problem. At least you have some leverage here. Tanks are hard to find, dps are not.

You can also make your job much easier by assigning CC's and make trash groups more manageable. Every "pure" dps class has some means of CC (some more than others), so let them demonstrate whether they really know their stuff .

Tanking 5-man bosses in vanilla is surprisingly easy due to the lack of big mechanics. As long as you gear up reasonably (dungeon grinding not required mos of the time, but warriors shouldn't tank in rogue leather), you'll be fine.

Also, look for red flags when forming your group. This doesn't work 100%, but from my experience, people with RP conform names are slightly less likely to be hilariously unskilled or rude than a rogue named Idóitfrómbéhind. Could be me being prejudiced here, though.

[Glavorli]

Well I’m working my way up with a prot paladin. Lvl 10 now and can’t wait to start tanking dungeons. I’ll be along to save you soon, op

Yea me too, and Im laughing at this topic as Im leveling up my level 12 warrior, for those on-demand-dungeons when I
want them.

If you want more tanks, play more tanks, its that simple.
And I guarantee you, 99% of the people here who complain dont have a tank, especially
the ones who say that all warriors need to go tank... What a silly thing to say.
They just say that because they dont want to be the tank themselves.

And btw, all dungeons except for the high level ones like Scholo or UBRS 10 man can be done as fury.
A shield is all a fury warrior needs to tank dungeons. If you have a good group you can probably even tank UBRS
with a shield as fury, heck you can probably even go to raid with it if your group is solid.

And I never ever have a problem finding a tank because im not lazy and I dont use LFT, I use /who instead
and I directly whisper all warriors, paladins and druids.
I always find tanks within minutes even at 5 am servertime.

[Mac]

Well I’m working my way up with a prot paladin. Lvl 10 now and can’t wait to start tanking dungeons. I’ll be along to save you soon, op

Yea me too, and Im laughing at this topic as Im leveling up my level 12 warrior, for those on-demand-dungeons when I
want them.

If you want more tanks, play more tanks, its that simple.
And I guarantee you, 99% of the people here who complain dont have a tank, especially
the ones who say that all warriors need to go tank... What a silly thing to say.
They just say that because they dont want to be the tank themselves.

And btw, all dungeons except for the high level ones like Scholo or UBRS 10 man can be done as fury.
A shield is all a fury warrior needs to tank dungeons. If you have a good group you can probably even tank UBRS
with a shield as fury, heck you can probably even go to raid with it if your group is solid.

And I never ever have a problem finding a tank because im not lazy and I dont use LFT, I use /who instead
and I directly whisper all warriors, paladins and druids.
I always find tanks within minutes even at 5 am servertime.

This guy gets it.

[Redmagejoe]

Most of the people posting in this thread don't understand the actual problem with the "lack of tanks". Whoever has said some variant of the "it's a mentality issue" have the right idea, but as a career tank, let me explain the actual problem that no one, not even Turtle staff, can do anything about...

PEOPLE ARE ASSHOLES

Tanking is the most mentally exhausting role in a party (no, don't say DPS is, you're objectively wrong) for a number of reasons. There is a great deal of responsibility on your shoulders, and despite how amazing you are at the job, you still rely on 4 other people cooperating and being on the same wavelength as you. Not only do you have to be on top of your game, but assuming you're going with randos you know nothing about, you have to babysit 4 other people or at least get a feel for how they play and how well they know how to use their tools and how well they know not to do shit like pull the next group because you're taking too long. Even if you try to communicate with these players, oftentimes you'll end up with people who either don't speak your language or otherwise refuse to respond to you as if they're only there to auto-pilot their class and tune out everything else around them.

Couple that with this apparent attitude that many random dungeoneers have towards tanks or literally anyone else but them in general, and the absolute vitriol they will spew when someone isn't playing the game in the ham-fisted, insane way they are that follows logic only they understand. What this does is create a very hostile environment for tanks who are partying outside their guild or friend circle, and means that they have to evaluate if they're in the mood to tank a dungeon. Three times in the last 2 weeks I got online on my tank main and asked myself out loud, "Do I have the mental energy to tank a dungeon with randos today? ... No, I don't. I'll just go quest."

You can give every class the ability to tank. You can remove threat entirely. You can tear the game apart and build it into something completely different from scratch. But no matter what you do, you are not going to improve the pool of potential tank players unless people quit acting like absolute shitheads to their fellow players or telling their last 3 tanks "ur shit and you should kill urself" only to turn around and then whine that they can't find a tank for their 4th dungeon.

[Glavorli]

Tanking is the most mentally exhausting role in a party (no, don't say DPS is, you're objectively wrong) for a number of reasons. There is a great deal of responsibility on your shoulders, and despite how amazing you are at the job, you still rely on 4 other people cooperating and being on the same wavelength as you. Not only do you have to be on top of your game, but assuming you're going with randos you know nothing about, you have to babysit 4 other people or at least get a feel for how they play and how well they know how to use their tools and how well they know not to do shit like pull the next group because you're taking too long. Even if you try to communicate with these players, oftentimes you'll end up with people who either don't speak your language or otherwise refuse to respond to you as if they're only there to auto-pilot their class and tune out everything else around them.

As a tank I can feel alot of those points, and maybe its because I played on warmane for a long time,
but I feel like people here on TurtleWoW are just super-friendly and super-carefull, at least compared
with warmane-standards.

If I tell people to sheep something, they do it. If I tell people what to focus on, they do it, or to move out of stuff.
On warmane, 90% spanish and russian players who can only do 1 thing : tank and spank.
Anything more then that and they will struggle.

And I would say healer can also be very very frustrating, especially if the tank
is the one who doesn't know what he's doing. DPS is always the easiest role tho.

But healing and tanking can both be very exhausting and frustrating if your team isnt working with you properly.

[Shamma]

Finally the white knight cavalry came to the rescue. The actual ppl, who both get it and can articulate it. First and foremost /bow to Regmagejoe for seemingly always being not only right, but able to put it beautifully into words and Glavorli for pointing out the healers' struggle is not far behind the tanks'.

On the friendliness/asshole scale - Turtle is middle of the pack. Not the worst, but definitely not the best. I would rate it as slightly worse than Blizzard classic (lvl 60 variant).

Also take note - HC is much better in this regard (ppl being friendlier).

I mostly play a tank/healer, cos I do not want to wait for grps, so I lead them. Rarely do ppl say "ty for tanking/healing" on normal, instead sometimes I get ppl trying to ninja an item from me just because I already won an item in the run - and mostly always do I get a "ty for tanking, GJ and stay alive till next time" by 1-2 ppl on HC.

[Glavorli]

Finally the white knight cavalry came to the rescue. The actual ppl, who both get it and can articulate it. First and foremost /bow to Regmagejoe for seemingly always being not only right, but able to put it beautifully into words and Glavorli for pointing out the healers' struggle is not far behind the tanks'.

On the friendliness/asshole scale - Turtle is middle of the pack. Not the worst, but definitely not the best. I would rate it as slightly worse than Blizzard classic (lvl 60 variant).

Also take note - HC is much better in this regard (ppl being friendlier).

I mostly play a tank/healer, cos I do not want to wait for grps, so I lead them. Rarely do ppl say "ty for tanking/healing" on normal, instead sometimes I get ppl trying to ninja an item from me just because I already won an item in the run - and mostly always do I get a "ty for tanking, GJ and stay alive till next time" by 1-2 ppl on HC.

On the healer part, for sure, I feel so bad for some healers doing everything they can and dont
even get noticed for it.

But I dont necessarily agree on the friendliness/unfriendly part - again it might be my low-warmane
standards, or me or the fact that Im a dwarve and dwarves get a hidden passive (+1 symphathie for beeing a dwarve!),
but when it comes to friendliness, Ive been treated very well by other people here on this server,
with a few exceptions ofc, and I dont think calling everybody an a**hole is helpfull or "beautifully worded".

But yea the OP and this entire topic is neither urgent nor is it even important.

The OP is either too lazy to use /who, or he refuses to play a tank himself.

90% of the people here probably are undead rogues and mages complaining.
And thats hilarious to me.

[Redmagejoe]

It was a general statement, that people as a whole, are assholes. That doesn't mean every single person is. Having said that, a valid point was raised: It really wouldn't kill people to say "good heals" or "good tanking" at the end of a dungeon. It may sound so banal and trivial but it may be just the little boost a tank or healer needs at the end of a dungeon that's left them feeling exhausted to give them a pick me up. I know I've always felt particularly content when someone compliments me on my tanking, and sometimes I find a second wind to tank another dungeon.

[Glavorli]

It was a general statement, that people as a whole, are assholes. That doesn't mean every single person is. Having said that, a valid point was raised: It really wouldn't kill people to say "good heals" or "good tanking" at the end of a dungeon. It may sound so banal and trivial but it may be just the little boost a tank or healer needs at the end of a dungeon that's left them feeling exhausted to give them a pick me up. I know I've always felt particularly content when someone complements me on my tanking, and sometimes I find a second wind to tank another dungeon.

Yes sure and I dont think thats particularly helpful, calling people a**holes. Regardless of how you mean it,
if its general or directed at a specific person, you know? Otherwise I agree with you.
I believe, that the majority of people here complaining are people who refuse to play tank/healer themselves,
and therefore have no right to complain.

[Shamma]

I said it before - Redmagejoe worded it beautifully. Call things with their real names. No need to sugar coat it. Lots of ppl behave like assholes ingame, so we call them assholes for that!

[Glavorli]

I said it before - Redmagejoe worded it beautifully. Call things with their real names. No need to sugar coat it. Lots of ppl behave like assholes ingame, so we call them assholes for that!

Meh, I think that language is very primitive and nasty. Far from beautiful if you have any standards at least.
Its also unnecessary, there are ways to improve peoples behaviour on an individual level and calling them names
is surely not one of them. It didnt work in Kindergarten, and it wont work
now. If you want people to be friendly towards eachother, you have to be friendly as well.

Everytime I encounter missbehaviour, I try to correct it by trying to convince the other person
of his missbehaviour - that is difficult and doesnt always work, but everytime it does its great.

I think thats much more helpful and reasonable then calling each other names and going back to kindergarten behaviour.

[Shamma]

You do you, mate. I am not that patient. Whenever some cunt tries acting out, I call them a "cunt", put them on ignore, throw them out of the grp I am tanking/healing and move on with my life and game.

[Glavorli]

You do you, mate. I am not that patient. Whenever some cunt tries acting out, I call them a "cunt", put them on ignore, throw them out of the grp I am tanking/healing and move on with my life and game.

Well, thats your choice of course. And if patience is what keeps you from actually changing missbehaviour,
in order to reduce toxicity and to lead by example, then thats understandable,
some people say patience is the hardest skill to master in life.

[Shamma]

[Totuga]

31

[Balake]

This is objectively false.
Imagine 10% of players want to tank.
If the server has 100 players, and 10% want to tank, that is 10 tanks.

If you limit 7 of those 10 with class restrictions, the pool of potential tanks has been effectively limited to 3.
Now you have 7 hunters wishing they could tank, and 7 groups tankless.

Um what? Those 10% of players who want to tank have already rolled a class that can tank. If they didn't roll a warrior/druid/arguably pally & sham then they don't REALLY want to tank.

In a similar vein, 40% of players want to heal but only 20% of them can heal cause the rest are pure dps classes? I really don't understand this logic.

[Markuis]

This is objectively false.
Imagine 10% of players want to tank.
If the server has 100 players, and 10% want to tank, that is 10 tanks.

If you limit 7 of those 10 with class restrictions, the pool of potential tanks has been effectively limited to 3.
Now you have 7 hunters wishing they could tank, and 7 groups tankless.

Um what? Those 10% of players who want to tank have already rolled a class that can tank. If they didn't roll a warrior/druid/arguably pally & sham then they don't REALLY want to tank.

In a similar vein, 40% of players want to heal but only 20% of them can heal cause the rest are pure dps classes? I really don't understand this logic.

Nope. Because when you choose your class you pick the one you enjoy the most, not thinking about healing, tanking or dpsing. The class having some kind of way of tanking or not is a problem that comes later. You may love the way warlocks are in WOW but then you realize there are no tanks queueing and you wouldn't mind tanking, yet you simply can't.