Pre-1.12 Alterac Valley

[Torta]

With the release of Patch 1.16.4 Alterac Valley will be restored to its original state from early Vanilla, with a few custom additions on top.







Here's the changelog:

• The original terrain has been restored and the Wildpaw and Winterax areas on the left and right of the Field of Strife are no longer walled off.

• Several graveyards have been moved to their original positions.

• All creatures have been respawned to match their exact positions before the battleground was changed. Wrong spawns like the soldiers fighting in the middle have been removed, while other missing spawns have been restored.

• All explosive mines have been respawned on the original spots.

• Added many missing mining nodes that were there originally, including in the Winterax cave.

• Restored Master Ryson's quest to find the All Seeing Eye, which enables players of the faction who capture it to get a buff that increases their stealth detection and shows nearby humanoids on the minimap.

• Restored Ryson's Beacon. Players can plant a beacon in the enemy base, which if not destroyed within 60 seconds, will allow everyone from their team to spy on the enemy through the Globe of Scrying.

• The quest that requires you to win Alterac Valley has been replaced with the original quest to kill Korrak the Bloodrager.

• Korrak is now spawned at the Snowfall Graveyard at the start of the battleground, and drops a decent amount of gold and items for the side that manages to tag and kill him first.

• Players who participate in slaying Korrak will be marked with a debuff, which unlocks some special interactions inside AV (custom feature).

• One of the tents in the Winterax area contains a crate with a disguise you can put on to enter the Winterax cave peacefully and do a secret quest inside (custom feature).

• If one side is outnumbered at the start of the battleground, they will get a short buff to help them get into a better starting position (custom feature).

• The amount of resources required to launch a ground assault has been significantly reduced.

• Fixed a bug that prevented alliance from launching ground assaults.

• The bosses in the Irondeep and Coldooth mines can no longer be killed by other NPCs.

• Most vendors and quest giver are no longer aggressive.

[Gantulga]

This is cool and the Korrak change is a step in the right direction but PLEASE remove the EXP from cave monsters.
Every single game there's a dozen low levels just grinding those mobs for EXP. That is not the purpose of a BG.
Also nerf the overall honor gain while perhaps adding more ways to gain reputation through some in-BG quests or achieving objectives like capturing all towers.

[Chnams]

Cool changes but please please please either nerf the honor gain in AV to bring it down to the level of other BGs, or add daily quests and/or more reputation and honor to WSG/AB. The PvP scene desperately needs more variety, and right now there's little incentive to play anything else than AV due to the massive honor gains. Also sunnyglade needs a fix, it's unplayable in its current state.
Also crossfaction play for blood ring would be nice.

[Chnams]

Cool changes but please please please either nerf the honor gain in AV to bring it down to the level of other BGs, or add daily quests and/or more reputation and honor to WSG/AB. The PvP scene desperately needs more variety, and right now there's little incentive to play anything else than AV due to the massive honor gains. Also sunnyglade needs a fix, it's unplayable in its current state.
Also crossfaction play for blood ring would be nice.

Oh and warmode bonus xp needs to go. Change it to bonus honor, so only people interested in PvP will opt in. Currently bonus XP only brings frustration because people who aren't interested in PvP will opt in for the sizeable XP bonus, and then complain that they get ganked.

[Torta]

This is cool and the Korrak change is a step in the right direction but PLEASE remove the EXP from cave monsters.
Every single game there's a dozen low levels just grinding those mobs for EXP. That is not the purpose of a BG.

This suggestion will be implemented.

[Patadepalo]

And a better Pvp system like TBC ???
We need no grinding 15hours per day in about 5 months for the rewards ...
And much more.. bah..

Im sad.

[Geojak]

Wow torta amazing patch. Pvp-General will be going nuts!

On the off chance, what's your opinion I nthe infamous horde backdoor on allaince base?

IF you don't want to fix it, can I suggest some more mines?

Just to reopen this can of worms: Blizzard, removed it in classic, its not present in any version of wow besides vanilla and is clearly not intended.

Horde always cried about the npcs in allain e base aggroing. They got what they wanted.

I am rly looking forward to explore these custom quests and the syndicates

[Chnams]

Are we gonna get a fix for the bug where some items stay on corpses on AV and can't be looted at all by the way? Like meat, or armor scraps.

[Geojak]

Oh yea and the insignia for the air force that can not be looted half the time. Very anyoing bug, might be reason I never saw the air force in action ever even in 4h avs

[Xudo]

Please remove worldbuffs when people enter battleground.

[Grandyman]

Excellent change. No old AV was one of the most disappointing parts of Classic. Must've taken a lot of work. Props to you all.

[Isvya]

More AV, yay....

[Mordecaieth]

This is cool and the Korrak change is a step in the right direction but PLEASE remove the EXP from cave monsters.
Every single game there's a dozen low levels just grinding those mobs for EXP. That is not the purpose of a BG.

This suggestion will be implemented.

On the surface, one could see why the exp grinding in the caves could potentially be a bad idea to be left in the game, however- let's take a few things into consideration.

- Fresh level 50's can come here and grind rep/armor scraps while they're still too low level in combat to be an effective force in the fight.

- Killing kobolds/miners effectively requires more than one person at a time (teamwork activity).

- There is also really good loot that drops from the monsters that new players can use to bolster their gold/gear.

If you remove the exp gained from slaying monsters in the mine you will nullify the drive to collect and turn in armor scraps. Turning off the experience will also be a call for a slippery slope, if there is not 50's levelling in the mines anymore it will likely be level 60's to farm the drops- seeing as there is no competition for loot anymore.

A counter point to the wish of removing exp gained in the caves is that you should likely remove the items and coins dropped from kobolds as well, if this will be the plan going forward, you run the risk of 'killing content'.

tldr; remove exp from caves - leaves potential for level 60's to farm drops - which could arguably be worse than sub 60's grinding there. This will likely lead to removal of items dropped from kobolds/miners too, putting armor scraps/mines in a grey area of uselessness.

These are my opinions and speculations.

[Jongyi]

So the outnumbered team will get a short buff in this update
This could be potentially problematic if not designed carefully
How much is defined outnumbered? like difference in +1,+2? buffed team would get advantage just bcos of 1 or 2 player difference in numbers.
It should be +5 difference to get that buff

[Culture]

That's a nice first step, but I'm gonna repeat what others have said to emphasize the importance of it. Please :
- remove the honor bonus from AV
- remove the exp from the cave in AV
- fix Sunnyglade bg
- allow cross faction in blood ring
- incentivize the need to queue for AB/WSG (maybe by adding some rewards with the rep? Right now pvp rewards lack some good epic offsets like neck/rings/belt/bracers/wand. Also the rep rewards from AV and WSG require a very long grind, but are only AQ20 quality, so it's not worth it at the moment. A few raids allow to have better items.)

Right now AV is killing the pvp scene : alliance and horde avoid each other and spend the whole bg fighting against mobs. This is very frustrating for the pvp population, and I'm pretty sure this was not your intentions when you added custom pvp features which, unfortunately, don't work for now.

[Mac]

Looking forward to seeing these changes in game.

[Geojak]

About the exp in the mines.

Removing the exp from killing is good But maybe consider adding exp to the infstry supplies turn ins.

This will mean the mine lvls can continue what they do but they are forced now to collect the mine supplies and support their side with infstry that way.

So far nobody collect supplies because too high amount needed, too weak and bugged on alliance anyway.

This can hopefully change, but we need someone to collect them. I think this is the job of the ab lvlers

[Totuga]

Omg imma cry

This is the best I've read since...
I don't think I've read anything as great as this in wow's history

You guys have officially suprased any of blizzards patches in my opinion

GO TURTLE

[Kerenis]

Steps in the right direction as always

Id keep AV alliance vs horde for multiple mechanics reasons, but it would be nice AB/WSG cross faction to ease queues

[Plagoy]

AV is broken shit rn. Alliance base have too many elite mobs, its impossible to win without heals tanks. And alliance have full raid of OP paladins, so horde allways lose

[Kanosh]

AV is broken shit rn. Alliance base have too many elite mobs, its impossible to win without heals tanks. And alliance have full raid of OP paladins, so horde allways lose

Of course its impossible to win without Tanks + Heals!!
That was always the case in AV as the win objective is to kill an NPC with standard NPC-mechanics like threat table.

Horde complaining about this simple fact is just utterly annoying to hear. You complain about a lot of things instead of trying to cope and use tactics to win.
The quoted thread is the same quality as me saying its unfair that the flag capturing team in WSG wins the battle.

Lets see if these changes will have a positive impact for pvp on turtle or will mainly frustrate a lot of people.

best regards

[Tenant]

Sorry to sound negative, but the only 2 good changes listed here are removing XP from mines and making some NPCs not agressive (well, and mine masters fix).
Some other changes are in fact detrimental.
- Do we really need more mining nodes? What's that going to achieve? More people queueing just to get some thorium?
- How is Korrak's loot going to help with current AV situation?
- Easier ground assaults - as if AV is not already a PvE fest.

I think the priorities are skewed. First, get a proper simple version working reasonably well (target 50/50 win ratio), then customize the features.
1. Fix the bugs (infantry and a lot of other issues).
2. Address honor gains. Drop everything for secondary objectives, leave just the bonus for the win. Target is that all bgs pop more or less evenly.
3. Get rid of freeloaders: xp/gold farm in mines, fishing, mining, herbing. (But do add some XP for mine supplies turn in to let low levels something to do).
4. Assess the results.
5. And after that it makes sense to work on custom/backported features.

[Tenant]

Oh yeah, and increase minimal starting body count back to 20-25.

[Isvya]

^
Well worded

[Tendies]

Don't you think more people would join the server and pay for stuff if you actually made pvp better?
Class changes were bad for balance and AV was always bad for pvp. So now you're digging the hole deeper by making non-changes to AV, probably making a sunk cost yourselves.
The greatest change to pvp would be to just remove bonus honor from AV.

[Tendies]

.....

[Shamma]

And cross faction has also impacted pvp negatively so you also need to also make pvp cross faction.
Right now Alliance is pretty much just warrs, palas and hunters.

Fully agree pvp should be cross faction too.

I see absolutely no connection between the state of pvp and AV and the "fact" that "Alliance is pretty much just warrs, palas and hunters". What do these have to do with each other?

[Tendies]

.....

[Ravenstone]

I feel like they should just uninstance the area and remove the bonus honor. Make it a forced world pvp zone, that the BG queue can teleport you to, but with all the current PvE reward incentives. PvE people will still want the great rewards that come from it, but it was such an uninspiring BG with what its devolved into in Classic and SoM. I prefered the more structured WSG and AB for PvP than AV which just seemed like PvE with added zerging.

[Shamma]

I feel like they should just uninstance the area and remove the bonus honor. Make it a forced world pvp zone, that the BG queue can teleport you to, but with all the current PvE reward incentives. PvE people will still want the great rewards that come from it, but it was such an uninspiring BG with what its devolved into in Classic and SoM. I prefered the more structured WSG and AB for PvP than AV which just seemed like PvE with added zerging.

Good suggestion. I like this idea. Unfortunately it is unlikely to happen.

[Akarui]

alterac is wierd. i expect tosee more action around all small locations there. Reasons for making a quests. Empty stables quest , armor scraps etc- maybe after doing this quests should be a squad of mobs for attacking enemy`s points? mine`s quests - maybe after this quest should be a squad for repairing closest point?
at now just boring mess

[Badrussian1945]

When do you plan to fix the back passage on AV? Unless, of course, that's what you're planning.

[Dustomatic]

When do you plan to fix the back passage on AV? Unless, of course, that's what you're planning.

Do you mean the back door entrance to the Alliance base? I'm revered with the Frostwolf. In all the time I've played AV, I've been in exactly two Horde victories. If the back door didn't exist, it would have been zero.

Fix AV in about a million other ways first, imo.

[Stinkyjames]

When do you plan to fix the back passage on AV? Unless, of course, that's what you're planning.

Do you mean the back door entrance to the Alliance base? I'm revered with the Frostwolf. In all the time I've played AV, I've been in exactly two Horde victories. If the back door didn't exist, it would have been zero.

Fix AV in about a million other ways first, imo.

Only 2? Unlucky teams by my guess. But that said, agreed. Every win I have had so far has been through either getting AidGY through the backdoor or a joint attack of Bridge and GY sandwich.

Alliance base is too easy to defend, and Horde is too hard to defend. If we remove the backdoors, we must change also where crucial NPC's rest in order to give some reprieve or bolstering on the respective sides.

I cant imagine crossing the bridge even with 40 people when 2 mages can just blizzard the crap out of you and slow you into archer death.

[Badrussian1945]

When do you plan to fix the back passage on AV? Unless, of course, that's what you're planning.

I cant imagine crossing the bridge even with 40 people when 2 mages can just blizzard the crap out of you and slow you into archer death.

to pass the bridge without slowing down https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=56 ... ion-potion

in general, I would like balance and corrections on AV