Possible fix for the current state of PvP

[Isvya]

1.) Battlegrounds
After some discussions in discord #battlegrounds most of us agree that the most acceptable change for healthy bgs is to change it so you can only queue for 1 specific bg each day. This would result a 4-day cycle, fixing various problems:
Sunnyglade would be played
When there is an AV open no other bgs pop, or they close in 5 mins
BG hopping would be gone, removing one sided games with either 0 alliance or horde.

Obviously sub 60s need to be exceptionbto this, they would be able to q wsg and ab any day.
Battleground weekends in my opinion is pointless to stay with this system but i am open to other suggestions.

2.) Blood ring
Obviously the bug present when one team is not full must be fixed.
Make a daily quest in which you need to win 1 or 2 BR games, rewarding extra honor, rep or fashion coins. ( Rewards are flexible, up to debate)
Deserter debuff for not joining a game.

3.) Warmode
Remove the bonus xp! You are luring in pve players with this, resulting a lot of drama.
New reward: make so that you can only take warmode at lvl 1 and upon reaching 60 you are rewarded with the old lvl 58 version of rank10 set for your class. This is not too powerful but still a good start for pvping at 60. Maybe an exclusive mount too.

Example of warrior set:
https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=16514
Mage set:
https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=16489

[Valadorn]

I cant upvote this enough, my only worry is, wont the PvE players be angry again if we get similar to prebis items without doing the dungeon grinds ? :s Since they are pretty very very angry about the exp even if it doesnt affect them at all.

I mean, I dont mind them being jelly either way.

[Dodge]

1. Looks good to me, nothing to add here. BG hopping is a mess...

2. No opinion here, I dont play it

3.
- Xp buff to be completely removed / reduced to 5-10% - thats for sure
- set reward may be too much (see above post) - maybe some honor gain buff instead?
- And what with already existing characters with warmode on?

Another sugestion (dont know if its stupid or not haha):
Maybe remove/reduce Ress Sickness for Warmode players (if they die from pvp)?

[Isvya]

1. Looks good to me, nothing to add here. BG hopping is a mess...

2. No opinion here, I dont play it

3.
- Xp buff to be completely removed / reduced to 5-10% - thats for sure
- set reward may be too much (see above post) - maybe some honor gain buff instead?
- And what with already existing characters with warmode on?

Another sugestion (dont know if its stupid or not haha):
Maybe remove/reduce Ress Sickness for Warmode players (if they die from pvp)?

Already existing wm chars, if 60 would have the quest flagged as completed (i assume u would get rewards with a quest), if not 60 nothing really, they complete the quest at 60.

I dont think the rewards are too powerful, the old set is lacking alot of dps stats and have a lot of stamina so they are really only for pvp except a few cases where casters could use 2s bonus as prebis. Edited my post with examples.

Reducing ress sickness is an interesting and good idea.

[Isvya]

I cant upvote this enough, my only worry is, wont the PvE players be angry again if we get similar to prebis items without doing the dungeon grinds ? :s Since they are pretty very very angry about the exp even if it doesnt affect them at all.

I mean, I dont mind them being jelly either way.

For pve these sets are really not that good, added some examples to my post.

[Gantulga]

I want to mention that WSG/AB reputation gear is basically dead content, and isn't even good.

By the time you get it, you've outleveled the piece by 4 level brackets or already got your pre-raid/crafted/ZG/AQ20 PvP pieces at 60.

Attaching WSG/AB rep to WM would be a nice idea. Maybe some sort of "mercenary" buff where all your WPvP HKs provide reputation with the BG you enlisted to so that you can actually buy those low level pieces while leveling up and can push for the level 60 purples with little effort once you're there.


It is also absolutely necessary to un-buff the guards that were buffed. Level 60, sonic-speed, 8k HP guards have no reason to exist in the main cities, much less low level hubs. All they do is discourage actual PvP and slaughter low levels who wander into contested territories.

[Jongyi]

1. Looks good to me, nothing to add here. BG hopping is a mess...

2. No opinion here, I dont play it

3.
- Xp buff to be completely removed / reduced to 5-10% - thats for sure
- set reward may be too much (see above post) - maybe some honor gain buff instead?
- And what with already existing characters with warmode on?

Another sugestion (dont know if its stupid or not haha):
Maybe remove/reduce Ress Sickness for Warmode players (if they die from pvp)?

Already existing wm chars, if 60 would have the quest flagged as completed (i assume u would get rewards with a quest), if not 60 nothing really, they complete the quest at 60.

I dont think the rewards are too powerful, the old set is lacking alot of dps stats and have a lot of stamina so they are really only for pvp except a few cases where casters could use 2s bonus as prebis. Edited my post with examples.

Reducing ress sickness is an interesting and good idea.

These are really good suggestion. But the whole sets would be a bit too much as a reward. Honor gain or pvp rep gain is better. If you want really want to add the set as a reward, we can directly copy Ascension system.
In ascension High Risk, you get PVP gear more easily but if you use them in PVE like dungeon and raid, you get debuff. Something like that

[Chudman123]

1. Up-vote 100% I think this is a great simple solution that would require a small amount of dev and fix a ton of issues with BG's (and even get people to play the more fun BG's such as WSG and AB).


The others I'm not sure.

Maybe for warmode (3. above) you could remove the bonus EXP and now warmode is something that is permanent but lowers honor level required to purchase items by like 4 (so level 10 honor can get level 14 gear). I will always have PvP enabled in the world (cuz that is part of my WoW role playing fun) but I can only play maybe 10 hours per week so R10 would be like by far the best I could get (even with potentially top end PvP skill). I don't think this hurts the game because I still have a ton of ZG then AQ gear to grind and T3 items are out so why not let more people have access to these awesome honor items if they are dedicated to always PvPing.

[Akalix]

Rotating BGs would be something interesting. I will keep note of this idea.

I worry about the PvE gear for PvP mode.

I completely agree with Blood Ring needing fixed.

[Thol]

I like the Battleground of the day idea.
I agree that there shouldn't be BiS items available in PvP otherwise it's the same problem as with the +30% XP in War Mode, Players disliking PvP will force themselves to endure it for an upgrade, this is not healthy. PvP should be played primarily for fun imo.

[Isvya]

Again the old version of pvp sets is nothing good for pve, they have high stamina and very low dps stats, most of the dungeon gear is better for pve.

[Ugoboom]

Rotating BGs would be something interesting. I will keep note of this idea.

I worry about the PvE gear for PvP mode.

I completely agree with Blood Ring needing fixed.

because PVP and PVE gear arent effectively separated via resil in vanilla, you can still somewhat create items that are only really useful in pvp: high stam and also high int for casters gear. I'd wear at 30stam pants with kinda eehhh stats, for pvp, but def not over titanics for pve. I'd also take a 30stam 30int chest w/ low spellpower on my caster, where in pve i'd rather go bloodvine with 0 stam and just a tiny bit of int, but mostly +damage stats.

reitemize pvp gear like this and bam, there are no more concerns over PVPing for bis PVE gear. no longer an argument that can be used against making PVP gear actually useful for once.

[Isvya]

Rotating BGs would be something interesting. I will keep note of this idea.

I worry about the PvE gear for PvP mode.

I completely agree with Blood Ring needing fixed.

because PVP and PVE gear arent effectively separated via resil in vanilla, you can still somewhat create items that are only really useful in pvp: high stam and also high int for casters gear. I'd wear at 30stam pants with kinda eehhh stats, for pvp, but def not over titanics for pve. I'd also take a 30stam 30int chest w/ low spellpower on my caster, where in pve i'd rather go bloodvine with 0 stam and just a tiny bit of int, but mostly +damage stats.

reitemize pvp gear like this and bam, there are no more concerns over PVPing for bis PVE gear. no longer an argument that can be used against making PVP gear actually useful for once.

Literally this

[Gantulga]

Also, PLEASE make it so you can't /pvp on or off outside of major cities. There are people abusing this to stalk others unflagged and attack when it suits them, or to avoid retaliation.

Such abuse has no place in PvP.

[Akil1337]

I really like the 30% buff from warmode. Classic leveling felt (in my opinion) everytime veeery slow, with the buff, its feeling like "a good pace". I cant underline enough how much I like it^^

But I also played always on PvP servers, so its normal for me.

PvE Players only activate Warmode for 30% buff, sorry but fk them. Its their faulty decision, not the system is wrong^^ these are players only acting for the benefit. They prob. also would go warmode when you get items @ the end

[Jongyi]

I really like the 30% buff from warmode. Classic leveling felt (in my opinion) everytime veeery slow, with the buff, its feeling like "a good pace". I cant underline enough how much I like it^^

But I also played always on PvP servers, so its normal for me.

PvE Players only activate Warmode for 30% buff, sorry but fk them. Its their faulty decision, not the system is wrong^^ these are players only acting for the benefit. They prob. also would go warmode when you get items @ the end

Proceed to insult PVE playerbase while server is RP/PVE with majority of PVE playerbase. yeah

[Gantulga]

I really like the 30% buff from warmode. Classic leveling felt (in my opinion) everytime veeery slow, with the buff, its feeling like "a good pace". I cant underline enough how much I like it^^

But I also played always on PvP servers, so its normal for me.

PvE Players only activate Warmode for 30% buff, sorry but fk them. Its their faulty decision, not the system is wrong^^ these are players only acting for the benefit. They prob. also would go warmode when you get items @ the end

Proceed to insult PVE playerbase while server is RP/PVE with majority of PVE playerbase. yeah

Abusing WM for the wrong reasons ruins the PvP experience for people who actually want to PvP.

[Ugoboom]

PvE Players only activate Warmode for 30% buff, sorry but fk them. Its their faulty decision, not the system is wrong^^ these are players only acting for the benefit. They prob. also would go warmode when you get items @ the end

it is your responsibility as a game designer (yes, you contributing to suggestions posts makes you take up this mantle), is to protect the players from themselves, to make sure that the game funnels and encourages players to do the most fun approach. an xp bait for PVErs means they get griefed and have no recourse and the extra XP is no more fun than it woulda been without. a net loss.

and for me personally, this isnt about the PVErs. I just wanna fight people who are enthused about pvp. for me red=dead. i dont wanna see the crap where some flagged PVEr just stops all actions, gets sassy in chat while i autoattack them to death. thats not fun. pvers need to never be flagged. I want people who wanna fight back and have the drive to win against me.

for that, is the thrill of the hunt.

[Velite]

"just create a new fresh pvp server" 4head

[Mac]

Rotating BGs would be something interesting. I will keep note of this idea.

I worry about the PvE gear for PvP mode.

I completely agree with Blood Ring needing fixed.

because PVP and PVE gear arent effectively separated via resil in vanilla, you can still somewhat create items that are only really useful in pvp: high stam and also high int for casters gear. I'd wear at 30stam pants with kinda eehhh stats, for pvp, but def not over titanics for pve. I'd also take a 30stam 30int chest w/ low spellpower on my caster, where in pve i'd rather go bloodvine with 0 stam and just a tiny bit of int, but mostly +damage stats.

reitemize pvp gear like this and bam, there are no more concerns over PVPing for bis PVE gear. no longer an argument that can be used against making PVP gear actually useful for once.

Additionally, in lieu of the resilience stat you could add increased chance to resist different types of crowd control on armor to make worthwhile PVP gear. A helmet with a 20% chance to resist stuns, boots with a 20% chance to resist movement decreasing effects, a chest piece with a 20% chance to resist fears, and so on.

[Isvya]

Rotating BGs would be something interesting. I will keep note of this idea.

I worry about the PvE gear for PvP mode.

I completely agree with Blood Ring needing fixed.

because PVP and PVE gear arent effectively separated via resil in vanilla, you can still somewhat create items that are only really useful in pvp: high stam and also high int for casters gear. I'd wear at 30stam pants with kinda eehhh stats, for pvp, but def not over titanics for pve. I'd also take a 30stam 30int chest w/ low spellpower on my caster, where in pve i'd rather go bloodvine with 0 stam and just a tiny bit of int, but mostly +damage stats.

reitemize pvp gear like this and bam, there are no more concerns over PVPing for bis PVE gear. no longer an argument that can be used against making PVP gear actually useful for once.

Additionally, in lieu of the resilience stat you could add increased chance to resist different types of crowd control on armor to make worthwhile PVP gear. A helmet with a 20% chance to resist stuns, boots with a 20% chance to resist movement decreasing effects, a chest piece with a 20% chance to resist fears, and so on.

Very good idea.

[Akil1337]

it is your responsibility as a game designer (yes, you contributing to suggestions posts makes you take up this mantle), is to protect the players from themselves, to make sure that the game funnels and encourages players to do the most fun approach. an xp bait for PVErs means they get griefed and have no recourse and the extra XP is no more fun than it woulda been without. a net loss.

I partly disagree with that: you can not force a player to have fun through design, cause fun is subjective. What I think is fun, possibly is not what you think is fun, while overlap can and will exist. If you solve this problem, you will be prob the richest man on the planet :D
To sum up: You cannot design a System everyone likes, cause ppl are different.

and for me personally, this isnt about the PVErs. I just wanna fight people who are enthused about pvp. for me red=dead. i dont wanna see the crap where some flagged PVEr just stops all actions, gets sassy in chat while i autoattack them to death. thats not fun. pvers need to never be flagged. I want people who wanna fight back and have the drive to win against me.

for that, is the thrill of the hunt.

I sign every word (if we are roughly in the same lvl range) :D


So a solve for both of us would be, to completely remove any reward from warmode. We both would go warmode even if we dont get a reward and prob have a blast.

The problem with no reward is, you dont get new ppl to try a system - or its harder. But yea, its maybe nevertheless the better way.


So my suggestion: Remove the 30% from Warmode and add nothing to it. Add a +30% like the "Slow and Steady" for ppl only want to level a bit faster. (like me lol)

[Gantulga]

CC resist effects are utterly awful in PvP, the orc racial is a clear example. There should be no chances to flat out resist a CC. Reduced CC duration would be a good option though.

[Sapiverenus]

it is your responsibility as a game designer (yes, you contributing to suggestions posts makes you take up this mantle), is to protect the players from themselves, to make sure that the game funnels and encourages players to do the most fun approach. an xp bait for PVErs means they get griefed and have no recourse and the extra XP is no more fun than it woulda been without. a net loss.

I partly disagree with that: you can not force a player to have fun through design, cause fun is subjective. What I think is fun, possibly is not what you think is fun, while overlap can and will exist. If you solve this problem, you will be prob the richest man on the planet :D
To sum up: You cannot design a System everyone likes, cause ppl are different.

Successful game developers are rich.

[Gantulga]

Another absolutely disgusting and discouraging thing the server has is the /pvp flag abuse by non-WM players. It baffles me how nothing was done about it when WM was implemented.
Those two mechanics do not work together.

[Mac]

CC resist effects are utterly awful in PvP, the orc racial is a clear example. There should be no chances to flat out resist a CC. Reduced CC duration would be a good option though.

I don’t agree with this at all, the orc racial is quite good. Reduced durations would also be a good way to go however.

[Gantulga]

By awful I mean unfun. Having the fight decided by pure RNG is awful design.

[Tedris]

By awful I mean unfun. Having the fight decided by pure RNG is awful design.

Well the whole combat mechanics are rng...resist, miss, parry, dodge, crit...etc

[Gantulga]

Those are nowhere as impactful. For some classes having two resisted stuns in a row means loss.
It also means disruption of coordinated efforts. Outright CC resists on RNG just punish proper play.

[Isvya]

Rotate bgs when? Bloodring fix?

[Ugoboom]

huuge +1 on the BG cycling. it is an easy fix, compared to the actual good fix of nerfing AV honor into the ground, which does need to be done

[Mac]

By awful I mean unfun. Having the fight decided by pure RNG is awful design.

As opposed to how fun it is being locked up in cc unable to do anything.

Well the whole combat mechanics are rng...resist, miss, parry, dodge, crit...etc

Yep.

[Isvya]

To the top

[Xudo]

Regarding point 3. Instead of giving free set for "reaching 58 lvl" it is better to allow players to progress in ranks during leveling. It is very possible to get good rank if you constantly play PvP. It will allow to buy PvP sets and battleground-related items.

Thats why I think that warmode should not only give additional xp, but also to allow xp gain from PvP.

With additional changes to reduce twink power it will allow players to level in battlegrounds.
Namely:
Applying enchant to item should increase required level
Change low level brackets

If someone is really eager to play PvP, it is bad idea to force him to kill mobs for a month to get access to high-level PvP.

Right now I see that 10-19, 20-29, 30-39 and even 40-49 procs very often and there are a lot of regular players with average gear. probably they stopped xp at x9 and got good gear.
Let them level in PvP and you will attract a lot of fresh blood.

[Rhissa]

remove the ability to que for certain BGs directly

make it like wotlk random bg que