Toxic PvP?

[Jambiya]

It also severely punishes toxic behavior through item loss, gold loss, rep loss, faction loss (pariah rank) and taking toxic players out of the game once captured.

Keep in mind people who actually partake in that behavior now suffer no consequence, as was in your quote, and will most likely continue their actions.

[Afaslizo]

It also severely punishes toxic behavior through item loss, gold loss, rep loss, faction loss (pariah rank) and taking toxic players out of the game once captured.

Keep in mind people who actually partake in that behavior now suffer no consequence, as was in your quote, and will most likely continue their actions.

We play this game mostly for years. Now consider: If they get to have a number of characters on a server and there is not consequence for any other characters why should they not use one character to engage in toxic behavior to experience unique content just made for them? So they undertake toxic actions and get a unique player experience.

[Gnomoerectus]

I love all this talk of toxicity when all of the hostility on this forum has been coming from PvE players and is being directed towards PvP players.

Here's a suggestion: if you weant to avoid PvP don't join battlegrounds, don't flag yourself and don't use the Warmode Glyph.
I'm sorry for the hardcore players accidentally flagging themselves and getting killed but once you're flagged anyone can attack you, Warmode or no Warmode, even on a PvE server.

Don't shift it to change the point. The entire point of this is the PVP crowd that recently showed up is toxic compared to the people that were already here. Maybe it has nothing to do with PVP. Maybe they are just jack wagons, but the point stands. The PVP changes to the server brought some jackasses who are making playing unbearable with their constant bullying, arguing, and making everyone miserable.

There is only so much room on ignore. Not to mention, it's a private server. I am betting NONE of these toxic jerks donate a penny, so boot them or the people who have supported the server will leave and then what? It's like watching locus swarm, and when they leave, there is nothing left.

If they can fix the PVP/HC issues, then PVP is fine. The toxic attitudes and bullying is NOT. I don't think they are mutually exclusive, but PVP did seem to bring in some unsavory types who just want to watch the world burn.

Asking to ban huge swathes of players unless they pay up to the server just because you don't like them while calling others toxic might just be the least self-aware thing I've read in months.

Yours is not concern for the quality of the server, it's just elitims and extreme hostility to change. You're saying "Old players good, new players bad" as you blame the problems of the server on some boogeyman you created in your head.

[Jambiya]

It also severely punishes toxic behavior through item loss, gold loss, rep loss, faction loss (pariah rank) and taking toxic players out of the game once captured.

Keep in mind people who actually partake in that behavior now suffer no consequence, as was in your quote, and will most likely continue their actions.

We play this game mostly for years. Now consider: If they get to have a number of characters on a server and there is not consequence for any other characters why should they not use one character to engage in toxic behavior to experience unique content just made for them? So they undertake toxic actions and get a unique player experience.

If I’m reading you correctly:
If someone wants to make an alt toon to do toxic behavior, then they can do that now. The problem is there’s no consequence for said behavior.

The content I provide in the suggestion only have fugitives attacking custom npc guards that server no other purpose than protecting a stash of loot. Yes they can eventually attack capital cities, but that’s an even bigger risk to said fugitive players.

Again if any fugitive player is being dishonorable, they get put on the bounty board, hunted down, stripped of items/gold/rep, and locked out of play for up to an hour or more (pending).

In my opinion that is a far more organic solution upheld by the community than interrupting GMs every minute to deal with one persons idea of “toxicity” over another.

[Afaslizo]

This way you will get both. Customer service will allways have tickets because people will not just trust any new methods. And it fights fire with fire. You want to limit ganking by artificially allow ganking of gankers. See you have to put systems into place which take all circumstances into account like accidential attacks, intents and commitment. Such a system is a whole new development hell with all those extra systems and will double the amount of tickets by both players who have been attacked like before and those that will claim to be targetted unfairly by your new system.

It does not limit the source, might bring an additional high amount of tickets and feedback loops, requires development and fixing which will not be applied elsewhere, and may even attract more of that behavior due to unique systems. Considering the amount of people leveling in HC with exhaustion glyph even when that glyph does not give any benefits and only makes the game in a grind with more risks due to HC disabilities will not diminish ganking if that new content is applied.

But I am sure you will either finance or deploy that system yourself as that "fix" is much more expensive than any other thought mentioned on this thread before.

[Kiwijello]

I love all this talk of toxicity when all of the hostility on this forum has been coming from PvE players and is being directed towards PvP players.

Here's a suggestion: if you weant to avoid PvP don't join battlegrounds, don't flag yourself and don't use the Warmode Glyph.
I'm sorry for the hardcore players accidentally flagging themselves and getting killed but once you're flagged anyone can attack you, Warmode or no Warmode, even on a PvE server.

Don't shift it to change the point. The entire point of this is the PVP crowd that recently showed up is toxic compared to the people that were already here. Maybe it has nothing to do with PVP. Maybe they are just jack wagons, but the point stands. The PVP changes to the server brought some jackasses who are making playing unbearable with their constant bullying, arguing, and making everyone miserable.

There is only so much room on ignore. Not to mention, it's a private server. I am betting NONE of these toxic jerks donate a penny, so boot them or the people who have supported the server will leave and then what? It's like watching locus swarm, and when they leave, there is nothing left.

If they can fix the PVP/HC issues, then PVP is fine. The toxic attitudes and bullying is NOT. I don't think they are mutually exclusive, but PVP did seem to bring in some unsavory types who just want to watch the world burn.

Asking to ban huge swathes of players unless they pay up to the server just because you don't like them while calling others toxic might just be the least self-aware thing I've read in months.

Yours is not concern for the quality of the server, it's just elitims and extreme hostility to change. You're saying "Old players good, new players bad" as you blame the problems of the server on some boogeyman you created in your head.

Stop painting narratives. I never said anything that you said. I said, and I will repeat it; The PVP changes have brought in some players that are ass holes and it's causing the server to be less fun.

How is any of that "elitism"? You are just throwing words around that mean nothing.

Based on your answer, are you worried they might boot toxic players that don't donate? Why? Would it affect you in any way? If it does, that speaks volumes about you...

[Jambiya]

Customer service will allways have tickets because people will not just trust any new methods.

Just because a new method may not be trusted, it dosent mean its not worth implementating. Certainly trying to find an answer to an issue is better than just letting it continue.

And it fights fire with fire. You want to limit ganking by artificially allow ganking of gankers.

Yes i want to encourage bounty hunters to go after players that will disrupt/gank the lifes of lower level players. The best part is that they only have to do it once, and the dishonorable player is sent away with extra consequence. As of now its not possible to do, so ganking can continue until devs are forced to step in each time.

See you have to put systems into place which take all circumstances into account like accidential attacks, intents and commitment. Such a system is a whole new development hell with all those extra systems and will double the amount of tickets by both players who have been attacked like before and those that will claim to be targetted unfairly by your new system.
It does not limit the source, might bring an additional high amount of tickets and feedback loops, requires development and fixing which will not be applied elsewhere, and may even attract more of that behavior due to unique systems.

All new systems go through a tough development process (HC, Long Journey, Xmog, Warmode, etc) and yet they each add something unique and new to the server. Granted not all things can be implemented, but killing potential content because of possible rough starts is bad form. Hardcore mode had a rough start to implement and was very polarizing when it came out, but its done an excellent job in increasing population numbers still to this day.

No one can be targeted unfairly because they make the choice to become a fugitive. They get custom content that gives green quality items to wear/sell, they also get hunted and lose a fair amount of said items. It not only potentially identify the source of griefers, but provides a system in place to punish those that do it (which might just as easily dissuade fugitives from acting toxic).

Considering the amount of people leveling in HC with exhaustion glyph even when that glyph does not give any benefits and only makes the game in a grind with more risks due to HC disabilities will not diminish ganking if that new content is applied.

HC does give players benifits at the end, and not all HC players mix in exhaustion/long journey/ warmode. The devs have done a thurough job in ensuring systems are in place that prevent HC players from flagging (campfire fix, aoe's, etc). Ganking a HC player is also a bannable offence, so my suggestion is uneeded in this regard in dealing with toxic players affecting HC players.

But I am sure you will either finance or deploy that system yourself as that "fix" is much more expensive than any other thought mentioned on this thread before.

All i can do is put my suggestion in the suggestion thread of the forums and hope the devs take a look at it. Do not try to assume what I might do or intend with this idea. Even if the devs say no, at least I've taken its due care and diligence to pitch a quality looking suggestion from all angles. Honestly its a beautiful looking post, if i do say so m'self.

Anyway I'm doing this to cap off the discussion as we've gone back and forth enough. If you want to make any suggestions to the mode lets continue it back at its original post. Somehow we've all gone 4 pages in off one persons rant that hasn't even been back to comment lol. Not sure what else can be accomplished here beyond more opinion projecting.

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

[Afaslizo]

Just because a new method may not be trusted, it dosent mean its not worth implementating. Certainly trying to find an answer to an issue is better than just letting it continue.

Yes, we have been doing that for some time before you came here to promote your ideas which are NOT inherently better than our opinions.

Yes i want to encourage bounty hunters to go after players that will disrupt/gank the lifes of lower level players. The best part is that they only have to do it once, and the dishonorable player is sent away with extra consequence. As of now its not possible to do, so ganking can continue until devs are forced to step in each time.

You still have not awnsered the issues at hand: HOW is your system to be implemented and WHO will pay for it? As it is YOUR idea and YOUR system it would be quite fitting if you finance it.

All new systems go through a tough development process (HC, Long Journey, Xmog, Warmode, etc) and yet they each add something unique and new to the server. Granted not all things can be implemented, but killing potential content because of possible rough starts is bad form. Hardcore mode had a rough start to implement and was very polarizing when it came out, but its done an excellent job in increasing population numbers still to this day.

No one can be targeted unfairly because they make the choice to become a fugitive. They get custom content that gives green quality items to wear/sell, they also get hunted and lose a fair amount of said items. It not only potentially identify the source of griefers, but provides a system in place to punish those that do it (which might just as easily dissuade fugitives from acting toxic).

Still avoiding the question of costs for the server and the team. I have no idea if you are ignorant of the matter (it is not just a matter of days or weeks to implement new systems but months or even years with dedicated team members exclusively concerned with those matter) or just do not care. Since you want a new complex system to be implemented that should be your burden financially or workwise. You want something so you have to work for it.

HC does give players benifits at the end, and not all HC players mix in exhaustion/long journey/ warmode. The devs have done a thurough job in ensuring systems are in place that prevent HC players from flagging (campfire fix, aoe's, etc). Ganking a HC player is also a bannable offence, so my suggestion is uneeded in this regard in dealing with toxic players affecting HC players.

As someone who almost exclusively plays HC I do not need any explanations for the mode and it completely misses the point I made. Best read again before you go on a tangent that does not fit the issue at hand.

All i can do is put my suggestion in the suggestion thread of the forums and hope the devs take a look at it. Do not try to assume what I might do or intend with this idea. Even if the devs say no, at least I've taken its due care and diligence to pitch a quality looking suggestion from all angles. Honestly its a beautiful looking post, if i do say so m'self.

Anyway I'm doing this to cap off the discussion as we've gone back and forth enough. If you want to make any suggestions to the mode lets continue it back at its original post. Somehow we've all gone 4 pages in off one persons rant that hasn't even been back to comment lol. Not sure what else can be accomplished here beyond more opinion projecting.

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

That is a really dishonest behavior as you got into the discussion promoting your own thread and now try to distangle yourself without adressing the issues concerning it. You made the connection and thus have to awnser the concerns - but on the technical level, the moral level and the financial level. Just quitting in the middle of discussion while avoiding those points does not help the discussion along IF you are really interested. It does not matter if the OP is still in the thread or not as length and activity clearly show that interest and opinions are to be had from a wide array of people. That kind of "argument" is like we should stop looking before crossing a street because it was only told once to us and not permanently repeated.

[Allwynd01]

Thats the same argument as if I would tell you, if you want pure PvE games go play something Single Player.

I hope you see how you made no points there.

I dont even think we are talking about the same thing anymore ? Are u still saying WoW pvp should be completly disabled ? or are u saying that kiling grey players is bad behavior ?

Bcz if the first, we still dont agree, if the second, we have been agreeing all along.

I dont remember saying I want hardcore PvP all the time everywhere, all I was saying is that PvP is part of the game, mostly bcz the game is about 2 factions being at war.

Sounds to me like you enjoy putting words in people's mouths just to support your rickety arguments.

I never called you stupid, you called yourself stupid.

I never told you to go play full loot open world PvP games if you like PvP so much. I told you to try and play them to see if it's fun to get murdered by other players and all your sh*t you worked hard with stolen from your corpse, then come back to tell us of your fun experience.

What I've written, I've written it clearly enough in a comprehensible English, if you want, you can go back and re-read my posts. If you refuse to read or pretend like you don't understand, that's not my problem.

I'm saying PvP should be contained into Battlegrounds and if possible for real, instanced arenas to be implemented, to have PvP contained in there as well.

It's hard to have a discussion with someone who picks and chooses what they want to read and what to ignore and then to create some fairy tales of events that never took place, like putting words in my mouth just to support your own arguments.

You still have not awnsered the issues at hand: HOW is your system to be implemented and WHO will pay for it? As it is YOUR idea and YOUR system it would be quite fitting if you finance it.

LOL. You got him good, he hasn't responded for a few days and probably won't because there isn't much to say. There are features that can be implemented into the game and there are features that are outright daydreaming. People need to think within the range of the abilities and limitations of both the developers and the 1.12.1 WoW client.

[Valadorn]

Thats the same argument as if I would tell you, if you want pure PvE games go play something Single Player.

I hope you see how you made no points there.

I dont even think we are talking about the same thing anymore ? Are u still saying WoW pvp should be completly disabled ? or are u saying that kiling grey players is bad behavior ?

Bcz if the first, we still dont agree, if the second, we have been agreeing all along.

I dont remember saying I want hardcore PvP all the time everywhere, all I was saying is that PvP is part of the game, mostly bcz the game is about 2 factions being at war.

Sounds to me like you enjoy putting words in people's mouths just to support your rickety arguments.

I never called you stupid, you called yourself stupid.

I never told you to go play full loot open world PvP games if you like PvP so much. I told you to try and play them to see if it's fun to get murdered by other players and all your sh*t you worked hard with stolen from your corpse, then come back to tell us of your fun experience.

What I've written, I've written it clearly enough in a comprehensible English, if you want, you can go back and re-read my posts. If you refuse to read or pretend like you don't understand, that's not my problem.

I'm saying PvP should be contained into Battlegrounds and if possible for real, instanced arenas to be implemented, to have PvP contained in there as well.

It's hard to have a discussion with someone who picks and chooses what they want to read and what to ignore and then to create some fairy tales of events that never took place, like putting words in my mouth just to support your own arguments.

You still have not awnsered the issues at hand: HOW is your system to be implemented and WHO will pay for it? As it is YOUR idea and YOUR system it would be quite fitting if you finance it.

LOL. You got him good, he hasn't responded for a few days and probably won't because there isn't much to say. There are features that can be implemented into the game and there are features that are outright daydreaming. People need to think within the range of the abilities and limitations of both the developers and the 1.12.1 WoW client.

Go back and read ur old argument again, you literally started woth " Thats stupid "

You sound like a person that wouldnt be missed if you leave. So by all means, go and find a server where there is no pvp :)

[Afaslizo]

You sound like a person that wouldnt be missed if you leave. So by all means, go and find a server where there is no pvp :)

We have already understood that you want Turtle to be fulltime pvp where you can get the kick out of being righteous because you have ganker hunting guild which would be out of service the moment ganking is impossible. That scheme needs the departure of all those that stand for a sensible pve pro-rp game. You do not need to show us your toxic behavior every other post.

[Valadorn]

You sound like a person that wouldnt be missed if you leave. So by all means, go and find a server where there is no pvp :)

We have already understood that you want Turtle to be fulltime pvp where you can get the kick out of being righteous because you have ganker hunting guild which would be out of service the moment ganking is impossible. That scheme needs the departure of all those that stand for a sensible pve pro-rp game. You do not need to show us your toxic behavior every other post.

Did you read any of my posts ? Any at all ? Pls show me where i said anything like that.

I strongly feel like you think you are some kind of justice warrior, but if we look at things objectively.

You cry for change, I like it the way it is, which one of us should be the one leaving ?

[Mcnair]

Sadly, the current implementation of Warmode has only one purpose: To feed the ganking system for the so inclined. Turtle WoW used to a be very friendly community, with PvP limited to a strictly opt-in basis with BGs, a few organised Arena brawls, and the occasional world PvP happening. All opt-in PvP options were (and are) available to any who wants to engage in a mutually agreed-upon PvP event. You see someone of your level while questing in Un'goro? Whisper them if they would like to fight you. That will make it sure you only fight battles where all sides are up for it. You never need the always-on PvP system for this to happen.
Warmode does not add any to this. All it does is making people who chose it the inability to stay out of it - even if you are a PvP player, you might not be up for a for a fight at a given time, for whatever reason. With the insane xp bonus tied to it, all it can be used for is to have a bunch of people around all times who can be ganked at any time by the so inclined , and then hide behind the outcry 'They chose that!'.
In its current form, all it does is to lure in more and more people who are into ganking, with zero benefit for the overall community.
It can not be denied that the population has increased tremendously over these few years, but I ask the developers if it is worth it when more and more are only here to get their fix for gank-withdrawal?
They are still a minority, but they are already making life here difficult to bear for many long standing players. Please think long term.

[Valdemyr]

I agree. The server is no longer as it was in the beginning. The only sad thing about all of this is, that i dont see any activities to rewerse it.

[Valadorn]

numbers talk louder then words, from a pop of avg 300 ppl it went all the way above 1000, why would they want to revert ? :o

[Kanto123]

What's the purpose of world pvp as compared to battlegrounds? I'm not very familiar with it so am curious; i've only done battlegrounds a couple times on wow classic and very rarely participated in pvp. From what I've seen, world pvp really is only annoying and just boils down to one person attacks someone who is vulnerable, i.e. lower level or already wounded, to ensure victory

[Valadorn]

What's the purpose of world pvp as compared to battlegrounds? I'm not very familiar with it so am curious; i've only done battlegrounds a couple times on wow classic and very rarely participated in pvp. From what I've seen, world pvp really is only annoying and just boils down to one person attacks someone who is vulnerable, i.e. lower level or already wounded, to ensure victory

Theres no real benefit to World PvP, only the fact that you feel like there are actually enemies out there, instead of just static NPCs

[Afaslizo]

What's the purpose of world pvp as compared to battlegrounds? I'm not very familiar with it so am curious; i've only done battlegrounds a couple times on wow classic and very rarely participated in pvp. From what I've seen, world pvp really is only annoying and just boils down to one person attacks someone who is vulnerable, i.e. lower level or already wounded, to ensure victory

Theres no real benefit to World PvP, only the fact that you feel like there are actually enemies out there, instead of just static NPCs

In other words: Less like other players you may play with together but rather targets and people you are able to frustrate because that is more fun to you.

[Valadorn]

I am sad that Afaslizo still doesnt understand that PvP is totally Opt-in / Opt - out and not mandatory :(

[Qixel]

While participation may be voluntary (putting aside the fact that war mode is a bribe to get victims into the system), the rest of us do not have the luxury of choice. We cannot toggle off the whining in world chat. We cannot avoid being flagged and put at the whims of gankers if we raid with someone who pvps. We cannot make people forget the anger they had at the guy who beat them on the other team.

Yes, all of these are problems with people. But these problems are disproportionately represented by pvpers, and to suggest that this is merely a coincidence is ridiculous. The reason Riot coined the term 'toxic' was because they saw that bad behavior spreads. So to illustrate that, imagine you have 100 people. Two of them are assholes. That's not a terrible number, in and of itself. But those two people start attacking the other 98. A lot of them ignore it. Some of them don't. Maybe they got it worse, maybe they have lower tolerance. Whatever the case, three of those 98 start to display assholish tendencies. Now you have 5 assholes in this group of 100. Still not too bad. But those 5 start harassing the 95. It's wearing on them. More of them abandon decency. You now have 10 assholes, and 90 decent people. And each day, this repeats. People start getting snippish. They've been worn down by assholes, and they start thinking other people are assholes, becoming assholes themselves. It's like a zombie movie, but with assholes. It's exponential growth.

If PvP was entirely self contained, it would not be a problem. But it isn't. PvPers use the same chat channels as everyone else. On this server, they even use the same chat channels as the people they're telling to go kill themselves. And then you have a few bad faith actors being like, "So just don't play. The game is optional." or "Well, I enjoy ruining other people's enjoyment. Why is my enjoyment worth less than yours?" And then act like they're the victim when you call them out.

[Valadorn]

I will rest my case with saying its a multiplayer game with 2 factions at war. If you get so frustrated by the fact that the game is multiplayer, I am sorry. But you may not know, that even on blizard pve servers, you could toggle pvp on. This discussion went on for too long amyway, and you just keep repeating yourself.
( boohoo people in world chat and so on )

People will cry about everything and anything,, no matter what, if you are playing an inline game, get used to it

If you have further concerns, feel free to PM me

[Kiwijello]

I am sad that Afaslizo still doesnt understand that PvP is totally Opt-in / Opt - out and not mandatory :(

It's sad that you REFUSE to address the actual topic. PVP is OPT in, however the endless toxic behavior and arguing is NOT opt in. It's infecting every part of the game. Your attitude that we should just suck it up is the problem. It's the core of the toxicity.

Stop acting like ass holes and we will stop complaining about it. Problem solved. And look, had nothing to do with actual PVP. Has to do with not accepting horrible behavior from man-children.

If you want free reign to act like a total ass, at least be honest about it. That is 100% what this is about: The ability to bully, be toxic, and have no repercussions because "PVP".

Yea no. Either these players will get bored and leave the rest of us back to play in peace, or we will leave, THEN they will get bored with no one to gank, they will leave, and the server will be empty.

History always repeats itself and I have seen this happen over and over. Nothing new here. Tale as old as time; Double dip the playerbase, lose them both.

Here is an idea, make a PVP Rabbit server. Call it CHADONIA. The boys will wet themselves with excitement...

[Valadorn]

I am sad that Afaslizo still doesnt understand that PvP is totally Opt-in / Opt - out and not mandatory :(

It's sad that you REFUSE to address the actual topic. PVP is OPT in, however the endless toxic behavior and arguing is NOT opt in. It's infecting every part of the game. Your attitude that we should just suck it up is the problem. It's the core of the toxicity.

Stop acting like ass holes and we will stop complaining about it. Problem solved. And look, had nothing to do with actual PVP. Has to do with not accepting horrible behavior from man-children.

If you want free reign to act like a total ass, at least be honest about it. That is 100% what this is about: The ability to bully, be toxic, and have no repercussions because "PVP".

Yea no. Either these players will get bored and leave the rest of us back to play in peace, or we will leave, THEN they will get bored with no one to gank, they will leave, and the server will be empty.

History always repeats itself and I have seen this happen over and over. Nothing new here. Tale as old as time; Double dip the playerbase, lose them both.

Here is an idea, make a PVP Rabbit server. Call it CHADONIA. The boys will wet themselves with excitement...

Welcome to the world of multiplayer games :)

[Afaslizo]

I am sad that Afaslizo still doesnt understand that PvP is totally Opt-in / Opt - out and not mandatory :(

Oh, please spare me the lies. I played on an official pve-server with a Alliance:Horde ratio of 5:1 as Horde for years. I know all about it when there is no server community but a faction divide like this. I have countless experiences of flightmasters being killed (crossroads as the most important hub, but also Grom'gol and others so we could not get to raids fast etc.), quest npcs camped by flagged Alliance players spamming chicken emotes, running flagged into aoe-effects and else. Since the ratio is not so different on Turtle I foresee exactly that now with the pvp-promotion and the destruction of the serverwide cooperation in favor of faction war.

[Valadorn]

I am sad that Afaslizo still doesnt understand that PvP is totally Opt-in / Opt - out and not mandatory :(

Oh, please spare me the lies. I played on an official pve-server with a Alliance:Horde ratio of 5:1 as Horde for years. I know all about it when there is no server community but a faction divide like this. I have countless experiences of flightmasters being killed (crossroads as the most important hub, but also Grom'gol and others so we could not get to raids fast etc.), quest npcs camped by flagged Alliance players spamming chicken emotes, running flagged into aoe-effects and else. Since the ratio is not so different on Turtle I foresee exactly that now with the pvp-promotion and the destruction of the serverwide cooperation in favor of faction war.

Soooo, what does that has to do with Turtle ?
How would removing the PvP glyph fix any of that since you can still /pvp and do the things u said above without it ?

Just trying to point out, removing warmode wouldnt fix any of the problems mentioned above, why fight for its removal so adamantly?

Luckily, the good news is that you are afraid of a problem that Twow devs wouldnt allow to happen.

[Afaslizo]

I reread my posts through the topic and now know that basic reading comprehension is your problem and not mine. I am not for removing warmode glyph I am for the complete seperation of pvp and pve. So pvp and pve players will only interact together in instanced areas (battlegrounds, dungeons and raids) but are seperated outside of it. That way griefing can't occur, accidential flagging can't occur and all participants in pvp chose that voluntarily. It is a win for everyone.

[Mindboggler]

It's called segregation and I find it completely abhorrent. Just because I'm flagged doesn't mean I don't want to play with people who aren't. My ability to quest and generally have fun would be heavily crippled. If what you just proposed went into affect I wouldn't have been able to have a lovely RP yesterday with a non-warmode player.

[Geojak]

Why do you reacted so defensive?

I don't enjoy wold pvp either, but some people do, and if they do, they can choose to play warmode. I don't have to.

Getting pvp flagged has always been a thing. Now there a a few more people to be careful about. It has always bee like this, even back in vanilla when you grouped with people that like to do battleground and suddenly you got flagged from buffing.

Some people like to do RP ( I don't). Some people don't, and propably most pvp players don't. While introducing warmode did attract more non rp players and the percentage of rp players is now smaller.

I really don't see the problem. Can't we all just be on one server together. Just find others that like to RP with you.

I assume you would prefer a server with 200 players which are 100% rp-pve focused.

But I thinks its a reasonable compromise to tolerate hc, pvp, non rp pve players and get 800 players instead.

IF you don't like pvp, learn how to not get flagged and wait for it to wait of when you get flagged. Even and old dog can lean a new skill.

[Valadorn]

I will not even go into details why dividing a small community is a bad idea. You should be happy that the current pop is around 1000 instead of 200 and everyone can do whatever they enjoy. I hate the " new is bad " mentality. There is something for everyone, just go and do ur stuff, instead of trying to manage what others can and cant do.

Let the staff police the world, you dont have to :)

[Afaslizo]

It's called segregation and I find it completely abhorrent. Just because I'm flagged doesn't mean I don't want to play with people who aren't. My ability to quest and generally have fun would be heavily crippled. If what you just proposed went into affect I wouldn't have been able to have a lovely RP yesterday with a non-warmode player.

Even better. I said nothing about emoting and communicating. So you may rp with one another but not be able to attack them. Just like hardcore and normal is now but with the attack/heal/buff barrier on top of it.

If you are against such "segregation" you should protest against hc restrictions too because my partition is just another layer on top of that.

[Mindboggler]

Don't focus on a single aspect of my post like that was the crux of my argument. I despise the idea of not being able to play the game with other people. Yes, I absolutely do despise not being able to play with Hardcore players. But they make up a small minority of the server and they knew well in advance they weren't going to be able to interact with anyone outside of their bubble.

Suddenly dumping this concept on Warmode is atrocious. I like being able to play this game with all sorts of people, partitioning us off like we have a disease isn't healthy for the server and it definitely isn't fun.

[Geojak]

While I find it sad that I can't group with hardcore players and live in parralel with them. There really is no reason to protest , as it's clearly a reasonable compromise to play on one server together like this.

I rather have the hardcore and non hc players on one server without grouping than two servers with half the pop.

We talk talk about segregating player bases when we hit 5000 players

Even as non hc it's sometimes fun watching the drama

[Afaslizo]

Don't focus on a single aspect of my post like that was the crux of my argument. I despise the idea of not being able to play the game with other people. Yes, I absolutely do despise not being able to play with Hardcore players. But they make up a small minority of the server and they knew well in advance they weren't going to be able to interact with anyone outside of their bubble.

Suddenly dumping this concept on Warmode is atrocious. I like being able to play this game with all sorts of people, partitioning us off like we have a disease isn't healthy for the server and it definitely isn't fun.

As someone who almost plays exclusively hc I don't see the problem. I know that intertwining pve-players with us would lead to more problems. At the start we could run dungeons with them but that led to catastropes because they tried to get us killed. That said HC is one of the most tight-knit-communities on Turtle. I can't remember how many times I traded with others just as a middleman or exchanged goods(my lw gear for some swiftness potions) or found people to help or guide.
It is funny how the same people can promote seperation by faction and destruction of cooperation between the factions while lamenting seperating pvp-players and pve-players for more harmony. That does not add up at all.

[Mindboggler]

Well that's just it then, isn't it? You play Hardcore but the majority of the playerbase doesn't. Yet you are calling for change that would effect everyone. It would segregate Warmode players and normal players. I don't believe that's fair at all since you clearly don't speak for normal players or those who use Warmode.

You also seem to be under this strange preconception that Warmode players cannot or perhaps do not group, quest, and interact with members of the opposite faction. We do. I've leveled and dungeoned with the opposite faction. But we fight as well. It's a gamble of an experience and hasn't effected the "harmony" as you put it for people who do not use Warmode.

[Afaslizo]

Well that's just it then, isn't it? You play Hardcore but the majority of the playerbase doesn't. Yet you are calling for change that would effect everyone. It would segregate Warmode players and normal players. I don't believe that's fair at all since you clearly don't speak for normal players or those who use Warmode.

You also seem to be under this strange preconception that Warmode players cannot or perhaps do not group, quest, and interact with members of the opposite faction. We do. I've leveled and dungeoned with the opposite faction. But we fight as well. It's a gamble of an experience and hasn't effected the "harmony" as you put it for people who do not use Warmode.

You seem to confuse my posts with someone else's because I am for the seperation of pve and pvp, not warmode and not-warmode.