Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
I would have to say no, even if I like the idea of playing one.
It just does not fit the lore well enough with what the class hunter can do. Hunter is quite nature oriented in-game and it just does not feel right.. For me, It would have to be a completely different subclass like the dark ranger, not the hunter we know from vanilla wow.
Mage dwarf seems fine, you do not have to add anything to the Horde side when it is not suitable - I play Horde.
Best,
PV
It just does not fit the lore well enough with what the class hunter can do. Hunter is quite nature oriented in-game and it just does not feel right.. For me, It would have to be a completely different subclass like the dark ranger, not the hunter we know from vanilla wow.
Mage dwarf seems fine, you do not have to add anything to the Horde side when it is not suitable - I play Horde.
Best,
PV
- Merikkinon
- Posts: 406
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
Idk... while there is this 'nature' theme to hunters, there have historically also been a lot of poachers and people who are flat out into slaying stuff. I think undead fits well there with their desire to destroy the living.
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
And those people were called thieves and assassins historically, not marksmen, beastmasters, or survivalistsMerikkinon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:11 pmthere have historically also been a lot of poachers and people who are flat out into slaying stuff
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
piggybacking on thread to vote for dwarf shaman
Resident Paladin Expert
- Mrkrissatan
- Posts: 239
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
Then there should be undead paladins, if it's lore breaking somehow for someone's head cannon then just give them a passive ability that changes all holy magic into shadow or something
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
I think the point of disagreement here on whether the hunter class in WoW is inherently naturalist or just a generic bow/crossbow/gun user that can train pets. The character creation screen describes it as follows: "Hunters know the uncharted places of the world. Gifted with a deep empathy for all life, they have an uncanny knack for befriending wild animals and taming them as pets. In addition, hunters can use their finely honed senses to become master trackers. Wherever hunters go, they fight back the ravages of sickness, exploitation, and industrialization."
The description seems to single them out. Undead obviously don't have a deep sympathy for life, quite the opposite in fact. And humans in WoW just don't seem like outdoorsy people to be honest.
There are definitely proficient sharpshooters in Stormwind's and Undercity's military forces, and humans (dead or alive) surely can tame wild animals if they wanted to, but that still doesn't make them connected to nature in the same way Night Elves, Tauren, Trolls, Orcs, and Dwarves are.
To be fair, Gnomes hunters don't fit either but that's already been added, so what does this mean? Blizzard not adding Human, Forsaken, and Gnome hunters was a deliberate decision because they didn't fit what Blizzard had in mind for the hunter class. It has nothing to do with the 6 class limit. I personally believe Turtle WoW shouldn't stringently restrict themselves to Blizzard's vision. It's fine to broaden the identity of hunters a little bit and allow races without an affinity to nature to play the class. Editing the creation screen description to cement this change would be a nice touch if that's possible, if not then it's not a big deal.
No undead paladins though
The description seems to single them out. Undead obviously don't have a deep sympathy for life, quite the opposite in fact. And humans in WoW just don't seem like outdoorsy people to be honest.
There are definitely proficient sharpshooters in Stormwind's and Undercity's military forces, and humans (dead or alive) surely can tame wild animals if they wanted to, but that still doesn't make them connected to nature in the same way Night Elves, Tauren, Trolls, Orcs, and Dwarves are.
To be fair, Gnomes hunters don't fit either but that's already been added, so what does this mean? Blizzard not adding Human, Forsaken, and Gnome hunters was a deliberate decision because they didn't fit what Blizzard had in mind for the hunter class. It has nothing to do with the 6 class limit. I personally believe Turtle WoW shouldn't stringently restrict themselves to Blizzard's vision. It's fine to broaden the identity of hunters a little bit and allow races without an affinity to nature to play the class. Editing the creation screen description to cement this change would be a nice touch if that's possible, if not then it's not a big deal.
No undead paladins though
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
The issue most people seem to have is deciding that each race is a hivemind who can't possibly have members that go against cultural norms. So, going off the character creation screen, 'a typical warrior is strong, tough, and exceptionally violent'.* Gnomes warriors cannot exist because they trend toward friendly. Warlocks are 'feared above all else for their singular wickedness and cruelty'. Again, guess we can't have gnome warlocks, putting aside for the moment that everyone except the token evil forsaken would have you killed on sight for fel magic. For paladins, they make mention of how it's lorewise human-only but they decided to let some dwarfs in. No mention of high elves, gotta get rid of them, too. On the hunter topic, 'Wherever hunters go, they fight back the ravages of sickness, exploitation, and industrialization. Guess the industrial themed dwarves gotta go.
Server's down, but I'll continue. Undead priests should be unable to call upon holy magic, given they're damned. Better scrap them. Druids are a male night elf only thing, lorewise. Scrap all female night elf druids, and all tauren druids - Cenarius only trained night elf men. Male night elves are not able to be priests - in night elf society, only women can become priestesses of Elune.
Blizzard did not care. Stop pretending they did. If you can't, just do what Blizzard did and change things until they work like dwarf paladins and non-male-night-elf druids.
Server's down, but I'll continue. Undead priests should be unable to call upon holy magic, given they're damned. Better scrap them. Druids are a male night elf only thing, lorewise. Scrap all female night elf druids, and all tauren druids - Cenarius only trained night elf men. Male night elves are not able to be priests - in night elf society, only women can become priestesses of Elune.
Blizzard did not care. Stop pretending they did. If you can't, just do what Blizzard did and change things until they work like dwarf paladins and non-male-night-elf druids.
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
I am just wondering what took so long to think about playable undead hunters.
Go for it.
Go for it.
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
I agree on this - Humans should also have a Hunter, in fact almost every race should have it as they need to eat and not everyone is a farmer.
Also I think that Hunters' Survival talent tree should get more attention with more attention on melee - like 1-2 more active melee abilities, as well as ones like Wing Clip and Raptor Strike, as well as melee auto attack dealing improved damage.
Of course, certainly not to the point where Survival becomes OP, but to a point where it's actually fun and different and somewhat viable.
So I vote YES on Forsaken Hunters as long as Humans get Hunters as well.
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
As much as I personally would like it, we don't really have space in the client UI for it. Human already has 6 classes.
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
Can't that limitation be bypassed in some way? Like class buttons made smaller or replaced with a drop down menu.
You already expanded the UI to feature two more buttons for additional races.
I don't know how possible it is, but there can be implemented some system in the game where each character can talk to an NPC in the game and change their class to a different one, of course with some lore limitations.
For example you want to be a Human Hunter, you talk to some NPC in some city like Booty Bay and tell them you don't want to be a Human Mage anymore, but a Human Hunter instead. So the NPC gives you a short set of kill and fetch quests related to the class you are switching to:
- Hunter is about killing deadly beats, collecting trophies or taming pets
- Mage is about killing aggressive elementals, collecting rare artifacts
- Warlock is about taming demons, killing demons, collecting demonic artifacts
- Warrior is about killing soldiers, bandits, collecting some weapons or whatever..
you get the idea...
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
We didn't figure out how to do it yet.Allwynd01 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:33 pmCan't that limitation be bypassed in some way? Like class buttons made smaller or replaced with a drop down menu.
You already expanded the UI to feature two more buttons for additional races.
I don't know how possible it is, but there can be implemented some system in the game where each character can talk to an NPC in the game and change their class to a different one, of course with some lore limitations.
For example you want to be a Human Hunter, you talk to some NPC in some city like Booty Bay and tell them you don't want to be a Human Mage anymore, but a Human Hunter instead. So the NPC gives you a short set of kill and fetch quests related to the class you are switching to:
- Hunter is about killing deadly beats, collecting trophies or taming pets
- Mage is about killing aggressive elementals, collecting rare artifacts
- Warlock is about taming demons, killing demons, collecting demonic artifacts
- Warrior is about killing soldiers, bandits, collecting some weapons or whatever..
you get the idea...
Human Hunters will definitely come in the future as soon as break the barrier.
-
Narrative Design for Turtle WoW
Narrative Design for Turtle WoW
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
That is certainly good to know.Mephistopheles wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:51 pm
We didn't figure out how to do it yet.
Human Hunters will definitely come in the future as soon as break the barrier.
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
Great idea with class change via a NPC!
But it would be better to place these NPCs right in the starting zone, and allow class change at level 1 only, to avoid complications like: char buys the initial class spells, armor..., then it's necessary to clean all the stuff from DB. Less headache is not to let the initial class evolve a lot.
Besides this opens the gates of hell, as if this succeeds, people will start suggest to implement custom classes (dark rangers, demon hunters...) and that's a helluva work I think (though they can be TP-only)
But it would be better to place these NPCs right in the starting zone, and allow class change at level 1 only, to avoid complications like: char buys the initial class spells, armor..., then it's necessary to clean all the stuff from DB. Less headache is not to let the initial class evolve a lot.
Besides this opens the gates of hell, as if this succeeds, people will start suggest to implement custom classes (dark rangers, demon hunters...) and that's a helluva work I think (though they can be TP-only)
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
I voted YES.
I don't see problem with lore since many humans were hunters before plague. So they could just pick up old profession.
I don't see problem with lore since many humans were hunters before plague. So they could just pick up old profession.
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
I'm afraid this will change the vanilla experience to some disney world/ fan club service server.
- Mrkrissatan
- Posts: 239
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
There are plenty of stock vanilla servers this is a vanilla+ server with extra features
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
I've always felt that hunter should be universal like warrior for all races.
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
What if undead hunters could only tame diseased or demonic mobs? There are plenty of them in the undead zones. There are the Plagued Swine and Plaguehounds of Eastern Plaguelands. There are Darkhounds in Trisfal Glades, as well as spiders that would likely become undead pets.Gnarbrok wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:27 amVoted "yes". The only "lore" counterargument I could think of is that pets/animals are unlikely to want to hang out with the undead. But this counterargument seems weak to me - surely plenty of meals, scratches, and "good boys" will eventually make your pet loyal! With that counterargument dispensed with, undead hunters seem like a natural addition (and, as other have pointed out, undead rangers are well-established in lore), so a "yes" vote seems appropriate.
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
To be honest I am all for it!
Let us have different varieties and experience Vanilla as never before.
Keep up the good work, fellas!
Let us have different varieties and experience Vanilla as never before.
Keep up the good work, fellas!
- Lichenwitch
- Posts: 51
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
i love this addition. i'd also like to add this to the discussion; just because undead can do something doesn't mean humans NEED to be able to do it/have done it as well. people seem to forget the vast cultural differences that currently exist in forsaken society versus human.
in my mind, it is not a far stretch of the imagination to picture some poor undead, who has found themself outcast, forsaken, and alone, learning new tricks to survive in the wild as well as help ensure the well-being of their people. perhaps, even learning a new kinship with the wild, cruel, savage animals that also often have to fend for themsleves as well.
to me, this has always made perfect sense and been something i have wanted for a long time. the potential connection to the idea of a dark ranger is an added bonus for me as well.
in my mind, it is not a far stretch of the imagination to picture some poor undead, who has found themself outcast, forsaken, and alone, learning new tricks to survive in the wild as well as help ensure the well-being of their people. perhaps, even learning a new kinship with the wild, cruel, savage animals that also often have to fend for themsleves as well.
to me, this has always made perfect sense and been something i have wanted for a long time. the potential connection to the idea of a dark ranger is an added bonus for me as well.
Jules, the Satyr
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
I am definitely against the introduction of undead hunters. In my opinion, the introduction of class extensions brings the balance even more apart.
Otherwise I would like there to get undead shamans who can use 2h swords !
blizzard must have thought a lot when it only assigned certain classes to a certain race.
softening this system in such a way falsifies the game in a monstrous way. Why can't you just keep the original race classes? the game on turtle is already quite extended anyway, why do such changes have to be added unnecessarily? that can never be in the spirit and purpose of vanilla
take a step further and introduce the blood elves and paladins on the Horde side to follow in the footsteps of 2.4.3 - then only the "pling" is missing and we are all on the Hell Peninsula
my 5ct
avowed shaman and
avowed undead
Otherwise I would like there to get undead shamans who can use 2h swords !
blizzard must have thought a lot when it only assigned certain classes to a certain race.
softening this system in such a way falsifies the game in a monstrous way. Why can't you just keep the original race classes? the game on turtle is already quite extended anyway, why do such changes have to be added unnecessarily? that can never be in the spirit and purpose of vanilla
take a step further and introduce the blood elves and paladins on the Horde side to follow in the footsteps of 2.4.3 - then only the "pling" is missing and we are all on the Hell Peninsula
my 5ct
avowed shaman and
avowed undead
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
What balance are you talking about...lol ?Skara wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:21 pmI am definitely against the introduction of undead hunters. In my opinion, the introduction of class extensions brings the balance even more apart.
Otherwise I would like there to get undead shamans who can use 2h swords !
blizzard must have thought a lot when it only assigned certain classes to a certain race.
softening this system in such a way falsifies the game in a monstrous way. Why can't you just keep the original race classes? the game on turtle is already quite extended anyway, why do such changes have to be added unnecessarily? that can never be in the spirit and purpose of vanilla
take a step further and introduce the blood elves and paladins on the Horde side to follow in the footsteps of 2.4.3 - then only the "pling" is missing and we are all on the Hell Peninsula
my 5ct
avowed shaman and
avowed undead
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
We getting hunter this year or next ? Two ? Poll is clearly winning.
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
Undead hunters will be available with the release of 1.15.2.
The terms of a deal you accepted are not a suggestion. Respect them: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2097
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
I know I’m a little late to the party, and it’s all been decided and work done for it etc, but I just can’t make sense of undead hunter.
So now every race in horde can be hunters? I don’t feel like that’s adding more flavor to the game.
Outside of warriors being ubiquitous, the flavor of races was that every class was limited to certain races.
I think what would’ve added more flavor to the game would be something more in-line with that design concept. And I’m aware many don’t agree, but crossing paladin and shamans across factions would have added that level of uniqueness and separation of classes and races. And it also would expand the game in a way to let people really play according to their desire; if you want to be shaman or pally, you’re no longer locked to a faction, while maintaining uniqueness.
So for example, if you want to be Druid, you have to be NE or Tauren. If you want to be horde pally, undead or troll. If you want to be alliance shaman, dwarves or NE. These choices target races that, as is, otherwise have limited class choices.
And lore wise, you can write the lore for anything really…
So now every race in horde can be hunters? I don’t feel like that’s adding more flavor to the game.
Outside of warriors being ubiquitous, the flavor of races was that every class was limited to certain races.
I think what would’ve added more flavor to the game would be something more in-line with that design concept. And I’m aware many don’t agree, but crossing paladin and shamans across factions would have added that level of uniqueness and separation of classes and races. And it also would expand the game in a way to let people really play according to their desire; if you want to be shaman or pally, you’re no longer locked to a faction, while maintaining uniqueness.
So for example, if you want to be Druid, you have to be NE or Tauren. If you want to be horde pally, undead or troll. If you want to be alliance shaman, dwarves or NE. These choices target races that, as is, otherwise have limited class choices.
And lore wise, you can write the lore for anything really…
Re: Poll: Undead Hunters — yes or not?
I really dislike the class homogenization from TBC (pal and sham for everybody). And with the glyph of diplomacy, any group can already have a pal and a sham. So I really don't see why doing even more homogenization.
I agreed with your first few paragraphs though. You said you were against ubiquitous classes (so : homogenization). But after that, you ask for... more ubiquity for classes across factions. :|
I agreed with your first few paragraphs though. You said you were against ubiquitous classes (so : homogenization). But after that, you ask for... more ubiquity for classes across factions. :|
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