World of Warcraft is about 2 Factions. It's about a variety that caters to many different tastes. With that being said, I understand AV is popular because it's the Meta for the most honor quickly.
However...
We have two other Iconic Battlegrounds that are barely being used. I propose that Turtle-WoW implement incentives, good ones, to get Alliance as well as Horde to Join those too.
Simple fact of the matter is that with people only Qing for AV, Turtle-WoW is just producing more of the same exact , terrible Battleground Experience that Blizzard did during Classic. I dare say that Blizzard had a 1-up because some people actually Q'd for WSG and AB. There needs to be change, and quickly because there are so many new players dinging to 60 wanting to join Battlegrounds (with an "s" because there's more than one)
Myself? My favorite battleground is Warsong Gulch, some people love Arathi Basin , they are unable to enjoy WoW to the full experience because those BG's are dead.
Good incentives and rewards for Winning those BG's to offset this terrible AV Meta that happened all through many pservers, classic and classic SoM. This needs to happen.
Thanks for reading
Incentives to do WSG and AB
Re: Incentives to do WSG and AB
Why not do like retail did? Have the option to queue for random battleground for a minor honor bonus.
Re: Incentives to do WSG and AB
Very good idea. The current state is quite boring. Everybody goes AV. Alliance wins 99% of the time because the game is very old and everyone knows the best tricks to win. Alliance has an advantage due to the map. Half the horde team just afks or are leveling up in the rich xp environment of the mines. Plus some decent loot sometimes! Boring. Maybe just try an experiment. Big nerf to AV honor, big buff to WSG and AB honor. We even have new bgs, that I have yet to get into because it never pops. This is a great server in most respects, but the bg environment is awful.
Re: Incentives to do WSG and AB
Having played quite a bunch of the BGs, I could see the following:
- AV is totally Alliance-preferable. Starting from the map (which is - let's be frank - absolutely, totally and indisputably imbalanced) and ending up with the popping time.
- Based on this, the Alliance only ques to AV as a main option. Why wouldn't they? It's an easy honor and easy win - who would deny such a possibility?
- On the contrary, based on multiple factors (racial perks, overall average player PvP skill, etc) Horde wins 85%+ of other (balanced) BGs. Which makes the other BGs even less preferable by the Alliance.
- Consequently, Horde has to que for AV as well to gain at least some honor instead of chilling in Orgrimmar waiting for the other BGs to pop.
- At the rare cases of Alliance still queing to the other BGs, they do it to live through the pain and suffering and gain the marks of honor to give the "For great honor" quest.
- All that leads to Alliance only willing to play AV they always win and Horde willing to play the balanced BGs they win.
There are two ways of resolving it:
1. Soft way. Balancing AV. Making Alliance base not so easily defendable/hardly accessible, removing the imbalanced NPCs from it, etc. This will make the winrate closer to 50/50 and will make this BG less preferable to Alliance and consequently causing Alliance players on queing other BGs. Pretty hard to implement and will be badly perceived by the Alliance players who are the majority on this nice server.
2. Hard way. Introducing a hard limit for AV honor gain/marks of honor/queing possibilities. Meaning that one should be only able to que AV, let say, once per hour (of course having the cooldown timer start only after leaving BG not to cause turtles). All the other time in this case will be used for other activities - including the balanced BGs. Still won't be well-perceived by Alliance.
We've come up to the point when the devs would either ignore the needs of Horde PvP players (not such a high percentage) and will gradually lose them or bringing more balance into the game by giving a "bitter pill" to the Alliance players, but keeping the player count.
Most likely they won't change anything and Horde PvP will still be like:
Que AV - Cry - Suffer - Get exalted - Get the rank you need - Forget this nightmare - Play 2-3 balanced BGs just for fun.
Let's see where we end up.
Cheers!
- AV is totally Alliance-preferable. Starting from the map (which is - let's be frank - absolutely, totally and indisputably imbalanced) and ending up with the popping time.
- Based on this, the Alliance only ques to AV as a main option. Why wouldn't they? It's an easy honor and easy win - who would deny such a possibility?
- On the contrary, based on multiple factors (racial perks, overall average player PvP skill, etc) Horde wins 85%+ of other (balanced) BGs. Which makes the other BGs even less preferable by the Alliance.
- Consequently, Horde has to que for AV as well to gain at least some honor instead of chilling in Orgrimmar waiting for the other BGs to pop.
- At the rare cases of Alliance still queing to the other BGs, they do it to live through the pain and suffering and gain the marks of honor to give the "For great honor" quest.
- All that leads to Alliance only willing to play AV they always win and Horde willing to play the balanced BGs they win.
There are two ways of resolving it:
1. Soft way. Balancing AV. Making Alliance base not so easily defendable/hardly accessible, removing the imbalanced NPCs from it, etc. This will make the winrate closer to 50/50 and will make this BG less preferable to Alliance and consequently causing Alliance players on queing other BGs. Pretty hard to implement and will be badly perceived by the Alliance players who are the majority on this nice server.
2. Hard way. Introducing a hard limit for AV honor gain/marks of honor/queing possibilities. Meaning that one should be only able to que AV, let say, once per hour (of course having the cooldown timer start only after leaving BG not to cause turtles). All the other time in this case will be used for other activities - including the balanced BGs. Still won't be well-perceived by Alliance.
We've come up to the point when the devs would either ignore the needs of Horde PvP players (not such a high percentage) and will gradually lose them or bringing more balance into the game by giving a "bitter pill" to the Alliance players, but keeping the player count.
Most likely they won't change anything and Horde PvP will still be like:
Que AV - Cry - Suffer - Get exalted - Get the rank you need - Forget this nightmare - Play 2-3 balanced BGs just for fun.
Let's see where we end up.
Cheers!
Re: Incentives to do WSG and AB
As a pvp enthusiast who's experienced most of the level brackets on the server, my current experiences have given me some thoughts.
The main issue for BGs differ based on bracket obviously, as AV only becomes available at 51. What I noticed is that the imbalanced map design as well as the faction classes of paladins and shamans are exasperated by the population heavily skewing towards alliance, therefore causing the horde side to be out numbers by at lest 3-4 players. Added by the fact that often times horde pvp players *such as my self* would like to participate in high end BGs asap for rep and for fun, causing the horde side to have more lower level players proportionally speaking compared to the alliance side.
All of the above reasons compound on top of each other, resulting in the current state of AV alliance domination.
The simplest (not the easiest to implement I would imagine) solution would be cross faction shuffle BGs. It elegantly addresses all of the above imbalance issues while staying true to the server direction, since cross faction group is already allowed if not encouraged. However I can see that being difficult to implement due to the faction NPC interactions towards the opposing faction players.
The second solution that I think could work, would be similar to what Dildont's post suggests. Which is simply to add random BG que with the honor gain equal or surpass the current AV honor gain.
I personally prefer the first option, but the second one should be a workable option without either factions feeling awful about it.
Just some thoughts, feedbacks are always welcome.
The main issue for BGs differ based on bracket obviously, as AV only becomes available at 51. What I noticed is that the imbalanced map design as well as the faction classes of paladins and shamans are exasperated by the population heavily skewing towards alliance, therefore causing the horde side to be out numbers by at lest 3-4 players. Added by the fact that often times horde pvp players *such as my self* would like to participate in high end BGs asap for rep and for fun, causing the horde side to have more lower level players proportionally speaking compared to the alliance side.
All of the above reasons compound on top of each other, resulting in the current state of AV alliance domination.
The simplest (not the easiest to implement I would imagine) solution would be cross faction shuffle BGs. It elegantly addresses all of the above imbalance issues while staying true to the server direction, since cross faction group is already allowed if not encouraged. However I can see that being difficult to implement due to the faction NPC interactions towards the opposing faction players.
The second solution that I think could work, would be similar to what Dildont's post suggests. Which is simply to add random BG que with the honor gain equal or surpass the current AV honor gain.
I personally prefer the first option, but the second one should be a workable option without either factions feeling awful about it.
Just some thoughts, feedbacks are always welcome.
Re: Incentives to do WSG and AB
Just queue WSG and stop queueing AV. Issue resolved.
This is something they should add except make the honor bonus massive so the meta for all the poor lost souls trying to rank is random bgs.
Re: Incentives to do WSG and AB
WSG in current state is prone to last for hours.
In retail there were FC debuffs. In classic there is nothing like that.
Devs should somehow limit potential playing time of wsg to make it viable meta option for honor farm.
There are three possible solutions:
1. Limit amount of respawns per side. Spirit healer runs out of mana and after long fight in middle, some faction will eventually lose because of no reinforcements.
2. Add kill count to battleground progress. If you need 300 progress, then bringing flag should give 100 progress, flag return and attempt should give 25 progress and kill should give 1 progress.
3. Add FC debuff like retail. Though I don't really like that option
In retail there were FC debuffs. In classic there is nothing like that.
Devs should somehow limit potential playing time of wsg to make it viable meta option for honor farm.
There are three possible solutions:
1. Limit amount of respawns per side. Spirit healer runs out of mana and after long fight in middle, some faction will eventually lose because of no reinforcements.
2. Add kill count to battleground progress. If you need 300 progress, then bringing flag should give 100 progress, flag return and attempt should give 25 progress and kill should give 1 progress.
3. Add FC debuff like retail. Though I don't really like that option
Xudo - tauren warrior 19 Sergeant armory.
I don't raid and rank, so you can not bother asking.
Nerf high level enchants on low level gear
Add lvl requirement to bandages
Best and optimal gear for 10-19 twinks
Have fun not only at 60.
I don't raid and rank, so you can not bother asking.
Nerf high level enchants on low level gear
Add lvl requirement to bandages
Best and optimal gear for 10-19 twinks
Have fun not only at 60.
Re: Incentives to do WSG and AB
I play mainly Alliance, and this seems to me to be the most sensible and fair option.Dildont wrote: ↑Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:53 pm1. Soft way. Balancing AV. Making Alliance base not so easily defendable/hardly accessible, removing the imbalanced NPCs from it, etc. This will make the winrate closer to 50/50 and will make this BG less preferable to Alliance and consequently causing Alliance players on queing other BGs. Pretty hard to implement and will be badly perceived by the Alliance players who are the majority on this nice server.
Balancing isn't only about boosting weaker things, usually people get quickly used to it if it doesn't tip something that was overpowered in the opposite direction, but just makes it balanced.
AV becoming 50/50 is a good thing.
There is nothing in WSG/AB that would favor the Horde, I think if there is more often Horde wins, it must be a social phenomenon that stems from the current state of AV, and would disappear if AV was balanced.
I don't think that the imbalance of AV is the only reason though, to a degree it factors in that AV by design is more aligned with the RP-PvE focus of the server. It's a more complex and interactive environment that blurs the lines between PvP and PvE. Maybe WSG/AB could be revisioned to do so as well, of course on a smaller scale, that would also incite people to favor them more over AV.
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De-standardization of Classes - Immersive Racials [Undead]
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Re: Incentives to do WSG and AB
AVs very map design is hugely flawed. It does not matter if xfaction bgs are a thing, if you spawn north you are likely to win, even if the enemies also have access to paladins. It would shift the meta in a sense that its less lucrative for alliance to que av but more lucrative for horde to que it. But it would still remain the numerically best bg to farm rank in.
I think the main issue why AV and WS are not played is simply that if you rank, you need to do so efficiently. Plenty of pvp players don't want to que for the same BG over and over again, but the existence of ranking decay forces them to be efficient with their time.
I think the most important step to make other bgs attractive is to clean this up. If the players actually get a choice what bg to play, without compomising their own position, many more would potentially fan out into the other bgs.
Or if ranked decay should remain part of the game, making its effect weaker upon handing in great honor (3 marks from each BG) would push players to que for the bgs they miss. But this just runs the risk of players running their errands and going back to AV as soon as they have the marks to spare.
I think the main issue why AV and WS are not played is simply that if you rank, you need to do so efficiently. Plenty of pvp players don't want to que for the same BG over and over again, but the existence of ranking decay forces them to be efficient with their time.
I think the most important step to make other bgs attractive is to clean this up. If the players actually get a choice what bg to play, without compomising their own position, many more would potentially fan out into the other bgs.
Or if ranked decay should remain part of the game, making its effect weaker upon handing in great honor (3 marks from each BG) would push players to que for the bgs they miss. But this just runs the risk of players running their errands and going back to AV as soon as they have the marks to spare.
Re: Incentives to do WSG and AB
Another easy solution is to simply remove the ability to que for specific pvp instances. Just have one button called "que for random BG" and then call it a day. On the days when there's a call to arms allow the ability to que for the BG that corresponds to the event.
Re: Incentives to do WSG and AB
Due to bgs having different sizes that would probably be biased to NOT give you alterac on the other hand, and if someone is only interested in alterac (for farming a reputation reward) that could lead to a lot of people deserting from a bg
Re: Incentives to do WSG and AB
I completely agree that the rewards for AB and WSG should be bigger and motivate players to go to PVP and these luxurious battlegrounds..
goodbye....Fotovoltaika
goodbye....Fotovoltaika
Re: Incentives to do WSG and AB
I remember when i first qued bgs in swtor after been a way for a while and all off a sudden i was teamed up with some from the oposite faction! First i shudderet in disbelief and horror and mildly disgusted. But after a while, no1 bothers about that! I say screw factions, just mix BGs factions. And yes a random bg with a reward is nice as well!