Remove DW warrior's HS queueing OH +hit bonus

[Ugoboom]

Edit: OK so my opinion on this has drastically changed, especially now that we've lost wbuffs.

I learned, after making this post, that trying to exploit queue+canceling in order to add hit for free, is completely nonviable due to another bug: canceling an HS resets your swing timer. This bug kills the abuse of the other bug.

And, while yes HS queueing does add a triple dip to the gear, the magnitude is so small, especially now with wbuffs gone... its not exactly fair to compare them apples to oranges.

Yall can continue campaigning for this... with wbuffs gone, if this change is made or not, it will be very minor to the overall dps lost, while we lose a bit of complexity in the class design. :/

But yeah as for my opinion, I no longer see much reason for this change. -1

Original post:

Currently, when a warrior dual weilds, they can press Heroic Strike which will queue the effect for next swing, and while this queue is in effect, the offhand weapon gains +19% hit chance, meaning with proper mainhand hit cap, the offhand will never miss.

This interaction has existed on retail from vanilla 1.0 to cata 4.0, on blizzard classic, and for about a year here on turtle wow. It is entirely blizzlike, but I argue this is a bug and must be removed, to better aid developers in their effort to balance classes and add new gear and content with confidence.

No other spec, of any class, gets to triple dip on gear like DW warrior does right now. 2H warrior and many other class specs simple double dip. For example:

A fire mage will get more gear, which allows their crits (which do more damage) to then spark ignite and keep it up, which does more damage.
A desto warlock will get more gear, which allows their crits to proc imp shadowbolt and keep it up, which does more damage for them and others
A seal fate rogue will get more gear, which allows their crits to add a 2nd combo point for more eviscs and easier full SnD uptime
A 2h warrior will get more gear, which has their autoattacks hit harder and faster for more rage, allowing them to spend it on more damage and dump with HS more often
A DW warrior will get more gear, which has their autoattacks hit harder and faster for more rage, allowing them to spend it on more damage and dump with HS more often, WHICH THEN buffs their offhand hit chance to gain even more rage, which is then spent on further HSes and other damage abilities.

This unique gear triple dip, is the main reason that dual wield warrior is the best dps in the endgame of 1.12. With mechanics like thaddius and loatheb damage buffs, or on normal encounters with wbuffs popped, HS is pretty much never not spammed, it's just raw free dps, and dw warriors skyrocket away on the dps meters. Also, on execute phase, execute will un-queue HS for the player, which means a macro that presses HS and hits execute is straight up a free dps improvement over just executing.

Rogue, cat, and 2h warrior would be far closer if the HS queueing +hit bonus was removed, which is why I suggest its removal.

This will also mean that, for an endgame and buffed warrior, that +hit past the soft cap will still matter just like it does for rogues. This will nerf DW warriors ability to take other raw stats and instead have tend to and consider lots of +hit, compared to 2H classes that are focusing harder on raw dps stats. This opens room for missing t1 2 and 3 dps warrior itemization that has 0 +hit, so these sets can benefit 2H warriors further versus dw warriors that will stick closer to nonbuff 1.12 style bis.

I say all this as a naxx bis dual wield warrior on the server. I'd rather enjoy being able to switch to 2h in raids some time, but it really can't be justified with bugs such as this on the server. Moreso I'd love to see other specs be able to compete, so devs wont feel gun-shy in adding new dps warrior gear that i'd love to see in the future.

[Raukodor]

For me is a +1. And i play a warr. Seem a abuse and makes all 2h warrior much weaker

[Fornow]

This only affects the class in an area where they already (overly) excel at, namely well geared fury warriors in raids with consumables and/or world buffs. It doesn't hurt in areas that I already find problematic as a warrior player like the arduous leveling experience, so it's fine in my book.

[Geojak]

When blizzard refused to patch this bug (and others) , that's when clssied died to me.

This needs to be fixed

[Novathesniper]

+1 seems omega crazy, and would help tone wars down.

[Geojak]

Bump, even warriors support this, what's with the silk gloves warriors are handled here. Roll out atleast this one exploit nerf

[Imonobor]

+1 it's a bug, duh. Squish it!

[Gantulga]

Fury warrior has been cockblocking other specs from getting group utility boosts for a very long time already so I fully support this.
Squash obvious exploits and then balance things properly.

[Syrathegreat]

Another warrior giving this a +1; like I love the pumping that dw fury can do but I'd give anything for variety. I love all these big 2handers but I just can't justify using them when dw is so good and has such a low barrier to entry.

[Mirumin]

+1 Nerfing fury is 100% needed and would also indirectly make 2h playstyles more viable

[Oonadruidqueen]

+1

[Myrkul]

-1

[Kwayver]

+1

[Phoenixphire]

1+

[Mechsoap]

1+

[Brutallica]

+1 Nerf wannabe rogue warriors please

[Chnams]

+1, i'm fine with warriors being powerful, but this is straight-up an old bug exploit that was never fixed. No reason for it to stay.

[Xudo]

Did someone fill a bug in vMangos github?

[Juicyx]

-1
It simply makes the class more interesting and also increases the skill cap.

[Velite]

Did someone fill a bug in vMangos github?

Thing is, it's not a bug it's authentic to 1.12. It's a bug in the strict sense that it's unintended behavior, but still belongs in a 1.12 server. That being said we have the choice to remove it or not on the merits described here.

[Nuclearflower]

This isnt a bug, there is no abuse, its an intended result of how the game calculates hits

-1

[Ugoboom]

This isnt a bug, there is no abuse, its an intended result of how the game calculates hits

-1

this is a bug, the blizzard devs did not at all intend for HS to be a buff to your OH miss chance. it would have been listed in the tooltip by wotlk if this was intended.

also this is a server that aims to fix the mistakes of old blizzard, so even if this was intentional, its still dumb and my argument in the OP stands and yours does not.

[Ugoboom]

-1
It simply makes the class more interesting and also increases the skill cap.

queue canceling is a meme, if you were following discussions on Fight Club you'd have known that

the only thing it does is add free dps and tps to fully geared and/or wbuffed warriors, and makes you make a /cast HS /cast Execute macro instead of just pressing execute. 0 skill is added to the game with this bug in place

[Juicyx]

-1
It simply makes the class more interesting and also increases the skill cap.

queue canceling is a meme, if you were following discussions on Fight Club you'd have known that

the only thing it does is add free dps and tps to fully geared and/or wbuffed warriors, and makes you make a /cast HS /cast Execute macro instead of just pressing execute. 0 skill is added to the game with this bug in place

Ye if you try to be a sim you won't succeed, that doesn't mean you can't utilize it occasionally when there aren't other things to worry about. The game doesn't just consist of one being fully world-buffed and naxxgeared, queueing HS non-stop. Even if you aren't cancelling at all, you can still determine when a HS is more worth to do, depending on if ur offhand will land a swing during it.
That's more complex in my book.

[Ugoboom]

Ye if you try to be a sim you won't succeed, that doesn't mean you can't utilize it occasionally when there aren't other things to worry about. The game doesn't just consist of one being fully world-buffed and naxxgeared, queueing HS non-stop. Even if you aren't cancelling at all, you can still determine when a HS is more worth to do, depending on if ur offhand will land a swing during it.
That's more complex in my book.

it's not any more or less worth to use either way. you always prio BT and WW over hs, and you use hs as the dump to stay under 100. theres no nuance to it other than switching to cleave to trade DPS and DPR for DPT

[Juicyx]

Ye if you try to be a sim you won't succeed, that doesn't mean you can't utilize it occasionally when there aren't other things to worry about. The game doesn't just consist of one being fully world-buffed and naxxgeared, queueing HS non-stop. Even if you aren't cancelling at all, you can still determine when a HS is more worth to do, depending on if ur offhand will land a swing during it.
That's more complex in my book.

it's not any more or less worth to use either way. you always prio BT and WW over hs, and you use hs as the dump to stay under 100. theres no nuance to it other than switching to cleave to trade DPS and DPR for DPT

Like i said, the game does not only consist of being max geared and world-buffed, there'll many cases along the way where the detail i mentioned is worthwhile to keep in mind.

[Redmagejoe]

This definitely has my support, even as a Warrior main. Fury Warrior will still be crazy even without this bug.

[Ugoboom]

Like i said, the game does not only consist of being max geared and world-buffed, there'll many cases along the way where the detail i mentioned is worthwhile to keep in mind.

HS isnt used at ALL when you come in with poor gear and no boofs. You get to BT and maaybe WW.

Yes you would lose the benefit of hitting HS early on a MH swing timer versus late. But with how horrible 1.12 addon api is, you can't even get a reliable dw swing timer anyway. Its a total crapshoot on this client to time dw swings. End result, there is nothing lost except the queue canceling meme, if this bug is fixed. I am talking about early 60 and leveling players here, not naxx geared as you keep mistaking me as. Does this all make sense

[Rhissa]

+1

a direly needed fix if anything close to an evened out playing field is to be achieved

[Juicyx]

Like i said, the game does not only consist of being max geared and world-buffed, there'll many cases along the way where the detail i mentioned is worthwhile to keep in mind.

HS isnt used at ALL when you come in with poor gear and no boofs. You get to BT and maaybe WW.

Yes you would lose the benefit of hitting HS early on a MH swing timer versus late. But with how horrible 1.12 addon api is, you can't even get a reliable dw swing timer anyway. Its a total crapshoot on this client to time dw swings. End result, there is nothing lost except the queue canceling meme, if this bug is fixed. I am talking about early 60 and leveling players here, not naxx geared as you keep mistaking me as. Does this all make sense

It's not a meme, what they say in Fight Club is that the sim overvalues some items because the sim can cancel perfectly. Even with a scuffed swingtimer you can still make it work in your favour. With or without cancelling, it's an interesting feature rather than the abilities just being ragedumps. World buffs are what makes warrior OP, not this.

[Conny]

-1 i rly like to queue/unqueu my heroic strikes with a swing timer. Sometimes you can queue for 1 swing or 2 swings, you need a little bit more awareness. Otherwise you just pressing BT, WW and HS only to dump Rage.

Also as i was playing on blizzard Vanille, the queueing wasn't needet to do tons of dmg. So getting rid of queueing wouldn't help other classes to do more damage.



This is/was a warrior from "Drachensturm" on the Realm EU Patchwerk. They where Nr. 1 in speedruns, the Guild formed on Nostalrius.

Oh, and can someone post the macro for queueing please

[Totuga]

51

[Juicyx]

Oh, and can someone post the macro for queueing please

I don't know any toggling macro but this one you can bind to another key and it cancels your Heroic Strike but not your auto attack:

Code: Select all

/run if not IsCurrentAction(24) then UseAction(24) end;
/run SpellStopCasting("Heroic Strike")

(24) is where your auto attack is on the bar.

[Charx]

+1 kill this bug

[Syrathegreat]

100% - good shout bumping this.

Big +1 from me again, even as a warrior main