Shaman Raid Tank Guide - Shaman Tanking WoW

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Yutilk
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Shaman Raid Tank Guide - Shaman Tanking WoW

Post by Yutilk » Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:29 pm

About
I'm Caperfin. Got tank questions? see my Livestream: www.twitch.tv/caperfin
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Introduction
Can Shamans tank? The short and to the point answer is, yes. You might be rubbing your eyes in disbelief of this answer. Maybe conjuring a ten page manifesto about how only warriors can and should tank. Although, I can go on a long rant about how there are many other classes that can tank, today, I’ll be focusing on our totemic friend, the shaman.

The topic of viable and optimal is contentious as some don’t see the difference or mix them up and levy a misguided philosophy onto it. Optimal is the most efficient and foolproof solution that eliminates as many negative variables as possible and favors an easier path. Viable or often referred to as: possible, seen as the more challenging path but to many is a greater personal triumph. Shaman Tank is labelled as viable.

Many Shaman tanks agree their motivation is from the glory of seizing a feat the rest of the realm dares not try. If this resonates with you, please continue reading. You shaman tank if you want a challenge and a refreshing perspective from a 15 year old game. If it wasn’t obvious before, shield bearing is a sizable undertaking.

When experienced players Shaman tank and put in the effort, it shines tenfold. Shamans can fully tank 5mans, 10mans, off-tank & main-tank raids. But, this is reliant on personal and guild experience. Our overall defensive statistics won't reach a warrior’s. However, it isn’t necessary to do so, to tank.
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Video: Shaman Tank - Race Options - Video Explanation
You’ll be staring at your character for a long time. So, consider your character’s appearance as a key factor as it may entice you to play more. All races have benefits but they’re minor compared to other aspects. There is no wrong race. See Video to learn more about race options.
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Video: Shaman Tank - Professions - YouTube
Engineering for: Goblin Sapper Charge, Masterwork Target Dummy, Force Reactive Disk, etc... Blacksmithing for Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros, disregard if Phase 5 (see weapon path), and go a high gold generating profession on your realm. Gold helps buy potions, ex: Flask of the Titans among other consumables.
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Video: Shaman Tank - How to deal threat!? - YouTube
We can increase threat in many ways, notably: Earth Shock, Stormstrike, Rockbiter Weapon & Lightning Shield. Install a threat tracking addon, ex: ThreatClassic2. Consumable items deal threat, ex: Major Rejuvenation Potion based on half of the Health & Mana gained. Damage items, ex: Goblin Sapper Charge deals threat equal to the damage so do reflective Buffs, ex: Thorns. Lastly, certain items ex: Gift of Arthas deal threat each time their Debuff is triggered (see Threat List).

Video: Shaman Tank - Allies and Threat
Allies can reduce their threat, through items, ex: Fetish of the Sand Reaver. Mage have: Burning Soul. Shaman: Tranquil Air Totem. Rogue and Hunter wipe threat with Vanish & Feign Death and so can Flask of Petrification. Items prevent aggro: Limited Invulnerability Potion & redirect aggro Masterwork Target Dummy (taunts the mob). Classes in the 30-40 yard range won’t get aggro t'ill they surpass the threat level of the mob’s current target by 30%, as opposed to 10% for melee classes. (See More)
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Video: Shaman Tank - Totems
Totems can't deal threat for you. Common totems: Grace of Air Totem, Stoneskin Totem & Healing Stream Totem. AoE Tanking: Stoneclaw Totem followed by Fire Nova Totem. To learn more about totems, see the Video.
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Video: Shaman Tank - Talents - YouTube
The main and optimal talent setup: (16/35/0), has steady threat per second for raids & excels on short fights.
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Video: Shaman Tank - Rotations
1. PrePull: Cast Lightning Shield. Get all Buffs the group can supply. Cast Rockbiter Weapon. Place: Stoneskin Totem, Grace of Air Totem & Healing Stream Totem. Mark the mobs in front of you by right-clicking their portrait, pick Raid Target Icon, choose from either a Skull = kill first, a red X = kill second, a blue square = Hunter trap and a moon = Polymorph.
2. Pulling: Cast Lightning Bolt, followed by as many Lightning Bolt possible to trigger, Elemental Focus. Lastly, Earth Shock.
3. Combat: For raids, use Nat Pagle's Broken Reel to assure the first few Earth Shocks hit. In a fight, use relevant ranks of Earth Shock that suits your mana & threat. Stormstrike can’t be downranked but is also used in similar cases. If Lightning Shield, cast it. If you suddenly might die, equip a defensive weapon, ex: Spineshatter w/ Enchant Weapon - Agility & Rockbiter Weapon, use Masterwork Target Dummy (taunts boss), use Juju Escape, possibly Major Healthstone & Major Rejuvenation Potion. To learn more, see the Video.
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There's a hardcore raid rotation with great results but requires good gear, Buffs, etc… If all actions below can't be done don’t be sad, it’s mostly to display the maximum potential possible to achieve grand feats.

1. PrePull: Use Unconscious Dig Rat. Unequip all gear & cast Rank1 Lightning Bolt on the rat to get Elemental Focus. Equip a gear set with the most spell damage possible & have another Shaman with the (8/8) The Ten Storms gear set, cast Lesser Healing Wave on you until you get Lightning Shield. (see Video) Once the Buff appears, equip normal tank gear and a spell damage weapon, ex: Staff of the Shadow Flame w/Brilliant Wizard Oil & Enchant Weapon - Spell Power.
  • PrePull Situational: Can also equip Malown's Slam & hit the rat to possibly trigger the weapon’s strength Buff. If the Buff appears, swap to your usual weapon & the Buff stays. Also, possible to get Flurry.
  • PrePull Situational: Someone in the party can: Gnomish Shrink Ray the rat to give the party +250 attack power.
2. Pulling: Hunter pulls the boss, be on the opposite side to create the most walking distance for the boss. A second before the Hunter pulls, cast Stoneclaw Totem, Thornling Seed, Fire Nova Totem & Chain Lightning. Use Nat Pagle's Broken Reel. Cast Earth Shock & swap to normal weapon+shield.
  • Pulling Situational: If the first Earth Shock misses, equip a two-handed weapon w/Rockbiter Weapon & Stormstrike after swap to a normal weapon+shield.
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Video: Shaman Tank - Buffs
There's a max of 32 Buffs, avoid nearing the max as it may result in Buffs getting mistakenly removed, the addon: Buff Cap Tracker helps. Use Buff Cap Calc to see what Buffs stack. Prioritize getting defensive Buffs, ex: Elixir of Fortitude before Threat Buffs, ex: Juju Might. (Here's a detailed List of Buffs). Consumables can give passive Buffs and have instant active effects, ex: Goblin Sapper Charge, Major Healthstone, Dark Rune among others.

Video: Shaman Tank - Best Debuffs
A max of 16 Debuffs can be on a mob. Reaching the max is major in raids. There's defensive Debuffs: Insect Swarm & threat Debuffs: Faerie Fire among others. With the raid leader’s consent, suggest ideal Debuffs without overstepping. We can apply Gift of Arthas & Stormstrike. To learn more, see the Video.
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Video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2mMGrRDPzc
Solidify defensive stats when gearing, threat is secondary. It’s advised to have 4k HP & 5k Armor unbuffed for Molten Core. Blackwing Lair, ~4800 to 5k HP and 6500-7k Armor. For reliable threat, 3% melee Hit is advised for dungeons. For Raid tanking, 6% Melee Hit. See the BiS Gear Set. You can't equip gear in combat, except for a weapon & shield, enabling the equipping of a defensive weapon, ex: Spineshatter, if survival seems grim.

Video: Shaman Tank - Enchants
There are two types of enchants, defensive, ex: Enchant Gloves Superior Agility. And offensive, ex: Enchant Gloves Threat. Having Enchanting isn't neded to gain the profession’s advantages. Simply, give the Enchanter the required enchanting materials and they will enchant your gear for a small gold tip. To learn more, see the the List of Enchants.
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AoE Tanking
Video: Shaman Tank - AoE Tanking
Many actions can further solidify AoE cases, ex: Oil of Immolation, Force Reactive Disk, etc... (see a detailed List) It’s crucial to switch and attack another target ever so often. In combat, items & spells giving health or mana deal 50% threat divided by each mob. Items also help until a decent amount of threat is gained on all mobs, ex: Masterwork Target Dummy.
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Video: Shaman Tank - Group Composition
With the raid leader’s consent, offer an ideal raid comp without overstepping. In our group, Warlock: Blood Pact, Warrior: Battle Shout, Druid: Leader of the Pack, Hunter: Trueshot Aura. For damage dealing classes, we prefer ranged classes over melee. If melee are needed, rogues are best. Groups with high threat dealers can have a Shaman: Tranquil Air Totem.
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Questions?
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Last edited by Yutilk on Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:34 pm, edited 49 times in total.

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Pompa
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Re: Shaman Raid Tank Guide (Talent, Gear, Rotation, etc...) A Serious Look at Shaman Tanking.

Post by Pompa » Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:38 am

Amazing guide! I will always remember a rogue tank that appeared during The Burning Crusade, there were videos of him tanking Gruul.
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Karma
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Re: Shaman Raid Tank Guide (Talent, Gear, Rotation, etc...) A Serious Look at Shaman Tanking.

Post by Karma » Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:43 pm

This is a really interesting post. Thanks for all of the effort you put into it!

Pfwg
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Re: Shaman Raid Tank Guide (Talent, Gear, Rotation, etc...) A Serious Look at Shaman Tanking.

Post by Pfwg » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:44 pm

Yutilk wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:29 pm

Tank Comparison
To showcase our max potential a full BiS geared and buffed shaman will be the closest in stats to approach a Druid tank. Let's look at the stats to see the differences. As a guideline, the Example Druid Tank below is BiS/buffed and able to clear most bosses with no issue. A shaman like other tanks tailors his gear versus the boss they're facing. Obviously, the Example Druid Tank can reach higher numbers and has a plethora of defensive spells, but the goal is to showcase the class with the closest similarity to a shaman in stats across the board that gets the job done in high-end raids.

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Druids have the luxury of having multiple categories covered and a broader safety net on top of having access to join Alliance for the added advantage of paladins spells, while shaman tanks are required to significantly maximize a specific category for a certain boss.done in high-end raids.
Now, let's explores the threat generated by other classes to showcase where shaman tanks stand. Remember, threat depends on gear, boss, etc... But in general, the current standing of tanks that can do the most threat are:
Feral Druid/Warrior.
Paladin/Enh Shaman.
Dem warlock.
Priest tanks
Hi. Cool guide and lots of work gone into it.

Comparing shaman tanks to the other "meme spec" tanks (Feral druid) will obviously make shamans look better than they are. Comparing them to a warrior (who can also block and parry, unlike druids) would be a much more reasonable comparison.

Best of luck in your tanking endeavours!

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Yutilk
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Re: Shaman Raid Tank Guide (Talent, Gear, Rotation, etc...) A Serious Look at Shaman Tanking.

Post by Yutilk » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:34 pm

Pompa wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:38 am
Amazing guide! I will always remember a rogue tank that appeared during The Burning Crusade, there were videos of him tanking Gruul.
Thank you for the support. You'll be glad to know Rogue Raid Tanking is very much a thing in original WoW, naturally it demands a great deal of effort but not outside the realm of reality.

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Yutilk
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Re: Shaman Raid Tank Guide (Talent, Gear, Rotation, etc...) A Serious Look at Shaman Tanking.

Post by Yutilk » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:20 am

Pfwg wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:44 pm


Hi. Cool guide and lots of work gone into it.

Comparing shaman tanks to the other "meme spec" tanks (Feral druid) will obviously make shamans look better than they are. Comparing them to a warrior (who can also block and parry, unlike druids) would be a much more reasonable comparison.

Best of luck in your tanking endeavours!
Thank you so much for the support!
I will be adding a warrior comparison shortly.

Pfwg
Posts: 110

Re: Shaman Raid Tank Guide (Talent, Gear, Rotation, etc...) A Serious Look at Shaman Tanking.

Post by Pfwg » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:02 am

One star that was missing from the comparison also was hit%, I think in the level of gear that the comparisons use, both warriors and druids are running a lot of hit gear.

Does a shaman tank run spell or melee hit%?

I've healed a shaman tank through BRD before with no major troubles, and they certainly weren't putting in the same effort as you with consumables.

I imagine a shaman tank would be on a par with warriors for tanking Elemental damage fights. The things that stereotypically hold back shaman tanks aren't really an issue on most Elemental damage fights.

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Yutilk
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Re: Shaman Raid Tank Guide (Talent, Gear, Rotation, etc...) A Serious Look at Shaman Tanking.

Post by Yutilk » Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:37 pm

Pfwg wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:02 am
One star that was missing from the comparison also was hit%, I think in the level of gear that the comparisons use, both warriors and druids are running a lot of hit gear.

Does a shaman tank run spell or melee hit%?

I've healed a shaman tank through BRD before with no major troubles, and they certainly weren't putting in the same effort as you with consumables.

I imagine a shaman tank would be on a par with warriors for tanking Elemental damage fights. The things that stereotypically hold back shaman tanks aren't really an issue on most Elemental damage fights.
Good point, I'll addressee it here but also include it in the guide. Shaman Tanks don't require hit, mostly because of the fact that we can equip fast dagger and have Flurry active a lot. Not only can we trigger Flurry from physical attacks but we can also trigger it in a roundabout way with spells thanks to Elemental Devastation.

Unlike fury warriors who require decent hit chance to dual wield tank, we don't require it since we have a 1handed weapon which requires a very lower hit chance (not worth improving). Our threat is also divided into physical and magical, which is a huge win.

Consumables in dungeons are merely a safety option if a group is inexperienced or shows problematic signs. For raid shaman tanking however they are mandatory and will be activated regardless of what happens.

Feel free to ask more questions about shaman tanking!

Pfwg
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Re: Shaman Raid Tank Guide (Talent, Gear, Rotation, etc...) A Serious Look at Shaman Tanking.

Post by Pfwg » Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:05 pm

Yutilk wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:37 pm
Good point, I'll addressee it here but also include it in the guide. Shaman Tanks don't require hit, mostly because of the fact that we can equip fast dagger and have Flurry active a lot.
Can you explain this a bit more for me? I don't understand how flurry helps you to hit. With no hit gear you've got a 9% chance to miss all melee attacks and 16% to miss spells, iirc. What happens when you pull but miss your first few spells? I have this problem when tanking already and my miss chance isn't anywhere near as high as 16%.

I'm a pretty safe player, so the idea of rolling the dice and hoping you get threat on every pull seems really risky. Is there something I'm missing? Like I said, this is all completely new for me.

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Re: Shaman Raid Tank Guide (Talent, Gear, Rotation, etc...) A Serious Look at Shaman Tanking.

Post by Yutilk » Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:40 am

Pfwg wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:05 pm
Can you explain this a bit more for me...
Sure. I'll address weapon speed and flurry.
A weapon with a slow swing speed is already a downside to have it also miss is extra painful. Flurry helps alleviate the melee downside by having the next auto attack comes faster and compensate for the previous miss.

All of this is perfectly balanced, because if we were to meet the hit cap we would be left too weak. (referring to raid)

The necessary +spell hit required to achieve an adequate spell hit is 6-8%, for shaman tank it is not necessary, see the above sentence.

If you were to miss an Earth Shock you're compensated with the next one critting alongside Elemental Fury. (this assumes you have good gear, if your gear is sub-par go Stormstrike)

Pfwg
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Re: Shaman Raid Tank Guide (Talent, Gear, Rotation, etc...) A Serious Look at Shaman Tanking.

Post by Pfwg » Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:35 am

The below question is the part I'd like answered.
Pfwg wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:05 pm
With no hit gear you've got a 9% chance to miss all melee attacks and 16% to miss spells, iirc. What happens when you pull but miss your first few spells?
I don't feel like your response answers it at all.

Yutilk wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:40 am
If you were to miss an Earth Shock you're compensated with the next one critting alongside Elemental Fury. (this assumes you have good gear, if your gear is sub-par go Stormstrike)
Outside of the 3 minute cooldown ability Elemental Mastery, which you don't take in any of the 3 talent specs that you've posted, how does the "next one crit"? You've got 11% max spell crit as per your table. Your "next one" is more likely to miss than it is to crit.

Your chance to miss 2 spells in a row is 2.56% presuming 0% spell hit. A 2.56% to do zero threat. What happens then? Wipe and try again?
Yutilk wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:40 am
because if we were to meet the hit cap we would be left too weak. (referring to raid)
I would propose that if shamans are too weak if they get to the hit cap, and give a 2.56% chance (at the very best) of failure if they don't, that they are weak regardless of which route you decide to take.

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Yutilk
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Re: Shaman Raid Tank Guide (Talent, Gear, Rotation, etc...) A Serious Look at Shaman Tanking.

Post by Yutilk » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:57 am

Pfwg wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:05 pm
With no hit gear you've got a 9% chance to miss all melee attacks and 16% to miss spells, iirc. What happens when you pull but miss your first few spells?
I don't feel like your response answers it at all.

[/quote]

Because a shaman tank generates threat from both physical and magical effects (including stuff mentioned in: Threat) the possibility that you don't generate enough threat even by missing the first few spells is highly unlikely. As a matter of fact, I "solve" the problem of your first few spell missing in: Rotation, by suggesting to cast heal spells (bad case scenario type deal). For dungeons, first spells missing should not be a problem...
Unlike warriors, we have to wait a few seconds to establish threat (the better gear, the faster dps can start)

There's plenty of small synergies/solutions that solve your first few spells missing, ex: the damage from Elemental Fury compensating for a missed spell.

I suggest to cast Lightning Bolt, Berserking, (number of LB casts depend on run speed but the point is to crit proc Ele Fury to solve the potential missed threat from spells later on/before), and Chain Lightning and lastly Earth Shock. I highly doubt not enough threat was generated (you can even equip a +spell hit weapon for the first few spells). I've never encountered threat issues even with Fury warrior dps going crazy and if there's a problem there's a plethora of solutions.

In the absolute worst threat scenario, you can consider a Buff Rotation, which is switching between Offensive and Defensive buffs, ex: Supreme Power to Titans once threat is solid. This tactic is mostly used for progression or crazy Naxx-level raiding.

If I'm not explaining myself properly or I don't understand the question, there's also a Shaman Tank discord with plenty of other raid shaman tanks that can perhaps formulate it better. Personally, I've never heard of the first few spells missing being a problem from other tanks or encountered it as problem myself.

Melee hit cap isn't a problem as well, not really needed but I'll assume devil's advocate: we do in fact gain +hit on some of our BiS and can always equip a +hit weapon for sticky situations or afford an oddity like Voone's. I was exaggerating about the "weak" part, I say it because I assume people want to shaman raid tank days after a raid is released, which is not everyone.

Kulte79
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Re: Shaman Raid Tank Guide (Talent, Gear, Rotation, etc...) A Serious Look at Shaman Tanking.

Post by Kulte79 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:58 pm

Hi, im thinking play here because i thought this was blizzlike, im old player, played beta ,vanilla, in DR guild and we did some top 30 EU kills,well only 1 C´thun scared_turtle smiling_turtle .
Here are custom skill, gear or something? because Shaman cant be a proper tank, i was warrior off tank and had shaman too using both at high end racing for first eu kills. The reason is simple, skipping the issue dmg mitigation , the bulk of the problem is the aggro, a shaman can do a burst of dmg but in few moments cant keep aggro, can be enought for a dungeon boss if have overgeared healers and dps but not for raid or world bosses.
In vanilla, is a shame, only warriors and with the late updates with t3 etc.. maybe a dudu can tank properly and im not sure, we did some tests and only ony and others easy bosses were dudus able to tank.
With my shaman, resto ofc, for raids needed full mana reg and still mana was a issue , for tanks must be worst.
Basic stat for tanks is def cap, if a boss crit u 2 times in a row u are dead and a shaman with less nitigation more.
Sry for my english and sry if here raids or class are custom im just new reading the forums a bit and was amazaed when readed shaman tanks. See you ingame ,maybe a warrior tank.
PD: Im talking as horde side, i only killed paladins on vanilla, idk about his tanking skill but only seen them as healers in high end.

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Yutilk
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Re: Shaman Raid Tank Guide (Talent, Gear, Rotation, etc...) A Serious Look at Shaman Tanking.

Post by Yutilk » Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:02 pm

Shaman Tank Guide has been updated. Feedback is welcomed! I'm also working on the Burning Crusade Shaman Tank guide, coming soon. I'm avaiable to answer questions on my Livestream: https://www.twitch.tv/caperfin

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Yutilk
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Re: Shaman Raid Tank Guide (Talent, Gear, Rotation, etc...) A Serious Look at Shaman Tanking.

Post by Yutilk » Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:32 pm

Kulte79 wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:58 pm
Hi, im thinking play here because i thought this was blizzlike, im old player, played beta ,vanilla, in DR guild and we did some top 30 EU kills,well only 1 C´thun scared_turtle smiling_turtle .
Here are custom skill, gear or something? because Shaman cant be a proper tank, i was warrior off tank and had shaman too using both at high end racing for first eu kills. The reason is simple, skipping the issue dmg mitigation , the bulk of the problem is the aggro, a shaman can do a burst of dmg but in few moments cant keep aggro, can be enought for a dungeon boss if have overgeared healers and dps but not for raid or world bosses.
In vanilla, is a shame, only warriors and with the late updates with t3 etc.. maybe a dudu can tank properly and im not sure, we did some tests and only ony and others easy bosses were dudus able to tank.
With my shaman, resto ofc, for raids needed full mana reg and still mana was a issue , for tanks must be worst.
Basic stat for tanks is def cap, if a boss crit u 2 times in a row u are dead and a shaman with less nitigation more.
Sry for my english and sry if here raids or class are custom im just new reading the forums a bit and was amazaed when readed shaman tanks. See you ingame ,maybe a warrior tank.
PD: Im talking as horde side, i only killed paladins on vanilla, idk about his tanking skill but only seen them as healers in high end.
If you have some questions, let me know.

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Yutilk
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Re: Shaman Raid Tank Guide - Shaman Tanking WoW

Post by Yutilk » Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:26 pm

Guide has been updated, let me know if everything works properly. :)

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Merikkinon
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Re: Shaman Raid Tank Guide - Shaman Tanking WoW

Post by Merikkinon » Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:40 pm

Gotta be an award-winning post.

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Yutilk
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Re: Shaman Raid Tank Guide - Shaman Tanking WoW

Post by Yutilk » Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:28 am

Guide has been updated.

- Added Suffering to the Debuff list.
- Refined the Stat priority on gear.
- Added a 2handed weapon progression (yes it's a thing).
- Blacksmithing recently discovered to be the 2nd best Profession.
and much more!

If you have questions, please let me know.
Feedback is welcomed.

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Augustfenix85
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Re: Shaman Raid Tank Guide - Shaman Tanking WoW

Post by Augustfenix85 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:01 pm

I have talents in Eye of the Storm. I use its effect to either heal myself, a party member or cast chain lightening depending on the situation. Any feedback would be good. I’ve only tanked up to UBRS
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Yutilk
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Re: Shaman Raid Tank Guide - Shaman Tanking WoW

Post by Yutilk » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:21 am

Augustfenix85 wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:01 pm
I have talents in Eye of the Storm. I use its effect to either heal myself, a party member or cast chain lightening depending on the situation. Any feedback would be good. I’ve only tanked up to UBRS
When you cast a long spell, you cannot dodge and block, which leaves you defensively weak. Also remember that Chain Lightning is heavy on Mana. The threat you do with your weapon (+Rockbiter) from simply tab targeting to other mobs will come close to the threat of Chain Lightning.
Regarding a healing spell, a situation where someone else but you is getting damage to the point where the healer is not addressing it, is rare. But if someone (pref healer) is about to die by all means heal them, but it does not warrant 3 talent points.

TLDR: You're basically investing 3 talent points into a rarity.

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