Two rules that likely need to be revisited.

[Lokino]

So there is a rule on this server that I noticed doesent get alot of respect as of late.

The rule of respecting RP, and RP interactions.

https://turtle-wow.org/#/rules#things-t ... turtle-wow

A rule that directly falls into conflict with another rule.

https://turtle-wow.org/#/rules#behavior ... encounters

As with the introduction of War Mode there is no turning pvp off- and I have witnessed several instances of this being abused.

Over my time in Twow Ive witnessed the phrases
"Dont wanna pvp then dont be flagged" - Regardless if those flagged are in an RP group, and are clearly RPing in the open.

Ive also seen the rules bent with.
"Well its my RP to attack alliance" - even though there is no indication of the attack being IC, other than a profile and maybe 1 rp line after its over.

Thats not counting other examples of Trolling towards Rper's.
and most the time the trolling is met with "put them on ignore" but then the skill spamming starts.

In Short-- I suggest the two rules above be revisited, this is advertised as an RP/pve server and while I respect that not everyone RP's it sucks to be doing something with someone only to have a random run past- then camp because at level 1 someone wanted to turn war mode on for exp bonuses and risk while leveling- to be trolled when they are very obviously RPing in the open with people.

This also doesent help the no cross faction pvp rule as people dont care- they see a flag they will jump it even if that person is clearly in a group with a horde member and then they whine about that saying your breaking the rules even though- we clearly have a rule above stateing- respect RP.

[Rat2156]

It's very unfortunate, but the server simply isn't RP anymore. With an influx of people came mostly people who did not care about RP whatsoever, and with them a non-negligible amount of people who actively try to ruin the experience of RP players

[Jolikmc]

Okay, so… when you say it's "obvious" someone is roleplaying, what exactly do you mean? It's not like everyone's going to use TurtleRP, much less have themselves openly flagged for roleplaying. One could argue that roleplayers prefer to walk, and sure, you don't see most players walking around town, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're roleplaying. There's no way to tell someone actually is roleplaying until they actually make a post of some sort – and even then, it might just be someone farting around.

Now, let's say we have a pair of people walking from the Wetlands and into Hillsbrad. One is flagged, one isn't. Let's say a player of the opposite faction rolls up and blindsides the one flagged for PvP, then camps the corpse. Let's say the PvP-flagged roleplayer commits to their role, gets up, then posts a custom emote about waking up from unconsciousness. The ganker decides to kill them again. Repeat ad nauseum until one or the other gets bored. You're telling me that the person doing the ganking should be punished for playing the game normally? 'Cause that seems to be what you're getting at, here.

Not to echo a "toxic" sentiment, but on most emulated servers and the official ones, when you accept the War Mode modifier or you simply flag yourself with /pvp, it's generally understood that you've agreed to let yourself be attacked at any time by anyone, anywhere, regardless of what you're doing. Sure, this might lead to situations like what I've faced in Retail, back in the day, where I keep getting clobbered by a particularly bored character and keep having to roleplay getting to my feet, but that's the chance you take by flagging.

I know that this is supposedly a Roleplay Player-vs-Environment server. But realistically speaking, if every player that every attacked a roleplayer was caught and kicked and/or blocked, I think the server would lose 90% of its population. It's pretty clear Turtle Team likes those big numbers, so I don't see that happening. Still, if… as a roleplayer… you find yourself being specifically targeted to a point where it interrupts your story, then I would recommend submitting a ticket to the Game Masters. It would be up to whomever's on duty, then, to determine whether or not what's being done is, indeed, "toxic behavior".

That's my coffee cup's worth on the matter.

[Lokino]

Okay, so… when you say it's "obvious" someone is roleplaying, what exactly do you mean? It's not like everyone's going to use TurtleRP, much less have themselves openly flagged for roleplaying. One could argue that roleplayers prefer to walk, and sure, you don't see most players walking around town, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're roleplaying. There's no way to tell someone actually is roleplaying until they actually make a post of some sort – and even then, it might just be someone farting around.

Now, let's say we have a pair of people walking from the Wetlands and into Hillsbrad. One is flagged, one isn't. Let's say a player of the opposite faction rolls up and blindsides the one flagged for PvP, then camps the corpse. Let's say the PvP-flagged roleplayer commits to their role, gets up, then posts a custom emote about waking up from unconsciousness. The ganker decides to kill them again. Repeat ad nauseum until one or the other gets bored. You're telling me that the person doing the ganking should be punished for playing the game normally? 'Cause that seems to be what you're getting at, here.

Not to echo a "toxic" sentiment, but on most emulated servers and the official ones, when you accept the War Mode modifier or you simply flag yourself with /pvp, it's generally understood that you've agreed to let yourself be attacked at any time by anyone, anywhere, regardless of what you're doing. Sure, this might lead to situations like what I've faced in Retail, back in the day, where I keep getting clobbered by a particularly bored character and keep having to roleplay getting to my feet, but that's the chance you take by flagging.

I know that this is supposedly a Roleplay Player-vs-Environment server. But realistically speaking, if every player that every attacked a roleplayer was caught and kicked and/or blocked, I think the server would lose 90% of its population. It's pretty clear Turtle Team likes those big numbers, so I don't see that happening. Still, if… as a roleplayer… you find yourself being specifically targeted to a point where it interrupts your story, then I would recommend submitting a ticket to the Game Masters. It would be up to whomever's on duty, then, to determine whether or not what's being done is, indeed, "toxic behavior".

That's my coffee cup's worth on the matter.

Obvious as in a large group of people standing around emoteing with /emote and clearly are in character- with or without the addon. This has happend a total of 6 times in such groups. - Clearly no one cares, because the RP rule simply does not matter and is excused by the pvp rule. However retaliation is met with threats of ban because of cross faction PVP - In short, its an ouroboros

Secondly, its one thing to attack the RPer's- but to keep doing it because your know their RPing and the Rule defends the toxic behavior. It feels like a very odd loophole. Im not saying ban them, no people have a right to pvp and its a legit game mode. - I just feel the rules need to be revisited, redon or enforced on some level. Because the RP rule is the one rule on this server that Ive noticed is just flat ignored or mocked.

[Jolikmc]

To be fair, it's pretty much always been like this on Retail servers, too – even on Roleplaying servers.

Yes, I know Turtle Team isn't Blizzard Entertainment. I'm just saying… this is nothing new. ):

[Xerilin]

There is a rule specifically for that in the Griefing section. I am not happy about it, but disturbing rp by pvping is not against the rules:

"If you plan your RP event it's your responsibility to ensure all your members have PvP flag off. GM will only interfere if you are being tricked into PvP or your event is interfered with in any other fashion."

[Lokino]

There is a rule specifically for that in the Griefing section. I am not happy about it, but disturbing rp by pvping is not against the rules:

"If you plan your RP event it's your responsibility to ensure all your members have PvP flag off. GM will only interfere if you are being tricked into PvP or your event is interfered with in any other fashion."

Which is why I am saying these two rules specifically need revisiting.
One rule is not only contradicting the other but outright excusing the action. which leads to retaliation, and complaints about cross faction pvp, because someone decided to attack an RP group that was currently in a cross faction RP with someone in war mode- and toggling pvp no longer removes you from party. So these two rules eat eachothers tail.

Revisiting these two rules is all i suggest, rewrite them? Remove the RP rule because no one cares anyway and just make it a Pvp/pve server?- Anything except promising some level of anti grief then revoke that promise.

Requireing RP guilds to not invite anyone in war mode because- If your flagged then your RP event is subject to pvp trolling. --- Atleast add the option to turn off war mode when it finally becomes to annoying. I dont know if such a system exists to leave war mode already or not, but that should be an option to opt out without a complete restart

[Fizzler]

There is a rule specifically for that in the Griefing section. I am not happy about it, but disturbing rp by pvping is not against the rules:

"If you plan your RP event it's your responsibility to ensure all your members have PvP flag off. GM will only interfere if you are being tricked into PvP or your event is interfered with in any other fashion."

Which is why I am saying these two rules specifically need revisiting.
One rule is not only contradicting the other but outright excusing the action. which leads to retaliation, and complaints about cross faction pvp, because someone decided to attack an RP group that was currently in a cross faction RP with someone in war mode- and toggling pvp no longer removes you from party. So these two rules eat eachothers tail.

Revisiting these two rules is all i suggest, rewrite them? Remove the RP rule because no one cares anyway and just make it a Pvp/pve server?- Anything except promising some level of anti grief then revoke that promise.

Requireing RP guilds to not invite anyone in war mode because- If your flagged then your RP event is subject to pvp trolling. --- Atleast add the option to turn off war mode when it finally becomes to annoying. I dont know if such a system exists to leave war mode already or not, but that should be an option to opt out without a complete restart

already there is a way to leave war mode

also it’s on you if you are flagged during RP when you just need to not buff any flaggeds unless if it’s some guy bypassing your ignore list


ganking flagged RPers is fun though

[Ghola]

Do you want to be able to attack members of the opposite faction for RP purposes? would someone passing by not also want to attack you for RP purposes? otherwise why flag

[Jolikmc]

It's a roleplay thing.

Putting War Mode's 30% XP buff aside, some people prefer to stay flagged because, even though the two factions aren't mercilessly trying to obliterate the other at this time, there are still going to be isolated incidents or small pockets of people who can't see themselves allying with the people they once fought. As such, it adds to the realism of the roleplay when they meet someone of the opposite faction and don't get their faces melted off. Or something like that.

I'm a little tired, so that probably sounded like garbage. Sorry.

[Nilay]

A very simple solution to take work away from everyone would be to not enable PVP when you're RPing. I come from an old RP-PVP server where PVP is basically a way of saying "I'm ready to fight" and most people took PVP activity into account in their RP. I know that's not the case here, but you will never be able to monitor all the PVP players, and so it is better to unable PVP when you want to have a good time and you have in horror PVP.

Here the community is diverse, very diverse with people from all over the world with many different ways of perceiving and playing the game. Asking for a layer of rules that a GM would have to apply just to protect the RP community is pointless imo when we know that the easiest way, the very easiest way, is simply NOT to have PVP enabled when RPing.
Besides, what would protect other players from an aggressive RP player with PVP enabled, killing people and then claiming that they were the abusers and that he was RPing? I know this would be a very rare situation, but it can happen with lousy, unenforceable rules.

I think the best way to do it would be to implement a new "tag", like an RP mod that anyone on the server could use and that would suspend PVP after 5 minutes but stop you from getting xp or rep from killing PVE mobs and stop PVP fights (and even then, people could still resort to grieffing with that). And another suggestion would be that, rather than asking for specific rules, we should ask for more RP features (for example, why not a vendor in each starting zone who would give away free simplified lore books, an introduction to RP, an introduction to RP rules) and available RP mechanics like HC or Warmod : A glyph on demand (why not an RP immersion mod that would limit running without stamina, dark night mod, cold, hunger, fatigue mechanics...).
(I'm planning to put this forward this summer in a post on the forum, in the hope that other people will be interested.)

Rather than punishing others, we should be proposing and asking for interesting RP mechanics and features instead to introduce our way of playing to everyone who comes here and would be curious enough to try it.

[Zzerty]

As you all are aware, a certain PvP server shat the bed monumentally, which caused thousands of us to come here. We have absolutely no interest in RP and are completely alien to RP customs. We play here because we have no other option (but we are extremely thankful for having found a home!)

PvP-inclined players are used to attacking players of the other faction on sight. If a rule change regarding this is made I hope it's clear enough for everybody involved. I don't see what the issue is with not flagging yourself if you don't want to be attacked. But if that's not acceptable, I am sure the staff can come up with something that doesn't end with dozens of players banned for... playing the game.

[Getplucked]

I mean, if you don't want your RP interrupted by PvP, don't flag yourself for PvP. There's not really much the admins/GMs can do to stop people from interrupting RP when you're PvP flagged.

Having GMs viciously protect RPers from world PvP is an impossible task. The only viable solution is to just not flag yourself.

[Remorsx]

Over my time in Twow Ive witnessed the phrases
"Dont wanna pvp then dont be flagged" - Regardless if those flagged are in an RP group, and are clearly RPing in the open.

i am a pvp player hungry for worldpvp(lmao)
i turn on warmode i see red name i kill it
as simple as that i dont care to investigate if a person i wanna kill is in an rp group/afk/full world buffed/etc
i simply would not care about it, all i would care however is reducing this one's hp to 0 lol
if u wanna rp dont turn on pvp

[Lokino]

As you all are aware, a certain PvP server shat the bed monumentally, which caused thousands of us to come here. We have absolutely no interest in RP and are completely alien to RP customs. We play here because we have no other option (but we are extremely thankful for having found a home!)

PvP-inclined players are used to attacking players of the other faction on sight. If a rule change regarding this is made I hope it's clear enough for everybody involved. I don't see what the issue is with not flagging yourself if you don't want to be attacked. But if that's not acceptable, I am sure the staff can come up with something that doesn't end with dozens of players banned for... playing the game.

Im not asking anyone to be banned.

I simply put this suggestion forth for two rules to be revisited.

For example.
One day we were roleplaying in westfall, and RP walking together, close and talking /emoteing in say chat.
Undead hunter comes along spots the paladin in our group. Follows us aways then shoots the paladin twice his level.
Proceeds to get pissy, yell whatever cuss word he knew and proclaim that being flagged for Pvp in a cross faction group is against the rules.

Well. So is interrupting RP events. - or atleast it should be.

My point is Rper's are slowly being phased out of this RP/pve server, and one rule of this server is ignored and subverted by another if not openly mocked because of how little it is actually enforced. Yes, Pvp is a game mode, Yes I enjoy it myself at times and am a willing participant when im not standing with a full group of people in a yard all emoting in say chat-- only for someone to show up in flagged from buffing a random, or warmode-- then that person getting shot every time they get up until we retaliate and are met with the same response.

Yet again, I ask- Isnt griefing RP events against the rules? Not if someone is flagged its not.

Again i will make very clear. Im not asking for anyone to be banned- I am suggesting the rules be revisited, with the hopes that the RP rule may be afforded the same protections as the plethera of other game modes.

HC players? Warlock brings a mob in, that warlock is subject to punishment.

Cross faction pvp parties? The most quoted rule on this entire server in my experince and the subject of another post currently.

RP gets basically one snippet in the rules, and the Anti grief post- which is suppose to be about 'not griefing' specifically tells you no GM will respond if you pvp anyone flagged and advises RP guilds for no one to be flagged.

Leaving two options - Retaliate and risk punishment over cross faction pvp.
or tell anyone potential RP character to join 'no warmode' and force them to drop a game mode to join an RP guild.

Even if they were quite open to the risk of being camped while leveling, its another story when your choice of risk interupts an entire guild just having fun -- and that is .. well it can lead to a very unpleasant rabbit hole.

[Jolikmc]

Honestly, I think the idea that roleplayers can't or shouldn't be flagged for PvP is ridiculous – especially on a cross-faction server like Turtle WoW. As I attempted to say last night, in my haggard state, there are sometimes perfectly justified reasons for a roleplayer to be flagged. Disallowing them to flag is almost as silly as punishing players who interrupt roleplaying by attacking a flagged player. Maybe they knew? Maybe they didn't. It would clearly be a case-by-case basis.

In any case, it's a bit of a push, this situation, with no clear cut solution. At least, I can't think of one.

[Fizzler]

I would say to just tell devs to add in a RP glyph in which you can't interact with the world but you're invulnerable to everything and walk anywhere without dying. It is basically spectator mode for PvE RPers to not get bothered until they turn it off by going back to their starter zone.

Maybe also include the ability to only PvP with those within party/raid to allow for PvP RP situations

[Jolikmc]

That's… a really awful solution. It's not all about sitting down in a tavern and talking about your past days of glory. Some people actually quest while roleplaying. It would be horribly inconvenient to have to go all the way back to the Glyph Vendor just to turn that ███ off any time you wanted to actually play the game.

[Getplucked]

I would say to just tell devs to add in a RP glyph in which you can't interact with the world but you're invulnerable to everything and walk anywhere without dying. It is basically spectator mode for PvE RPers to not get bothered until they turn it off by going back to their starter zone.

Or you could just....not flag yourself for PvP.