nerf paladins

[Ozzymagnum]

nerf paladins

[Geojak]

Buff paladins

[Sylveria]

If I'd get 1cent for every thread of that kind, that talks about "nerf paladins", I'd be a rich person by now.

[Jammyxx]

No point making more of these threads, Devs have already stated they'll be nerfed because they're "Absolutely broken in PvP"

[Allwynd01]

Paladins are underpowered and need to be improved, especially Retribution.

[Geojak]

Just stop getting skill issued by paladins

[Darkstromkar]

No point making more of these threads, Devs have already stated they'll be nerfed because they're "Absolutely broken in PvP"

but how stupid this sounds when you get into bgs and see that the horde wins them all due to the absurd damage of the shamans, nerfing the paladin and leaving the shaman like that would be hypocrisy worthy of medically diagnosing

[Darkstromkar]

Paladins are underpowered and need to be improved, especially Retribution.

and even if it sounds like a lie... this is true, the paladin is a character who plays 12 seconds every 5 minutes, the rest of the time he is on the bench... if for you this is broken....

[Jammyxx]

No point making more of these threads, Devs have already stated they'll be nerfed because they're "Absolutely broken in PvP"

but how stupid this sounds when you get into bgs and see that the horde wins them all due to the absurd damage of the shamans, nerfing the paladin and leaving the shaman like that would be hypocrisy worthy of medically diagnosing

You can cry all you want but the devs think theyre quote "Absolutely broken in PvP" and will be nerfed accordingly in PvP, but not PvE endgame. No other classes were mentioned for a nerf in the video with the devs.

[Darkstromkar]

No point making more of these threads, Devs have already stated they'll be nerfed because they're "Absolutely broken in PvP"

but how stupid this sounds when you get into bgs and see that the horde wins them all due to the absurd damage of the shamans, nerfing the paladin and leaving the shaman like that would be hypocrisy worthy of medically diagnosing

You can cry all you want but the devs think theyre quote "Absolutely broken in PvP" and will be nerfed accordingly in PvP, but not PvE endgame. No other classes were mentioned for a nerf in the video with the devs.

I don't care exactly what the devs say, I play between 10 and 20 bgs every day and I know how burnt my ass is, for a GM to say that the paladin needs a nerf is totally unfair, especially because of the state in which he is who is our direct counter who is the shaman.

If the paladin is nerfed, the shamans will simply be gods to whom we will have to pay homage

[Gnomoerectus]

Being forced to wear a dress and heal for over fifteen years has really left some players with mental scars.

[Boras]

Being forced to wear a dress and heal for over fifteen years has really left some players with mental scars.

That's because on the website we were promised basically tbc but in azeroth. Instead, we got some shitty scuffed version of vanilla. The game would be much better had they just copied tbc but they seem too arrogant to acknowledge they fucked up and fix the glaring issues present on this server.

[Werefox]

the devs think

Oh yeah. The people with stellar record in class redesign. They surely know what they are talking about.

[Trymv1]

Being forced to wear a dress and heal for over fifteen years has really left some players with mental scars.

Esfand's greatest attempt to suggest Paladins werent as dogshit as thought somehow warped the community into thinking they're the single weakest class in the game, despite being notoriously RNG landmines via Reckoning and SoCom, a playstyle they just giggle at if it's the idea of an Enhancement WF-triple proc erasing you by comparison.

I dont think any single pserver in the past few years hasnt had complaints against Paladins; Precision? Paladins. V+? Paladins. It's fairly comical really.

People just really go batshit when bubble comes out.

I dont disagree to maybe lower the damage during bubble, though.

[Werefox]

People just really go batshit when bubble comes out.

Yup. All this "nerf the weakest class in five mmo radius" threads are like a bunch of middle school bullies picking up on the wheelchair kid out of envy for his shinny chrome wheels to roll around.

Chill out, boys, the school district is ordering new teeny-weeny bus just for you.

[Allwynd01]

Paladins are underpowered and need to be improved, especially Retribution.

and even if it sounds like a lie... this is true, the paladin is a character who plays 12 seconds every 5 minutes, the rest of the time he is on the bench... if for you this is broken....

The reality is what is Retail WoW - all classes have been so homogenized (read balanced) for years and for many expansions, that at this point they are just the same class with different name and kit, but all play the same.

Part of what makes Vanilla the best iteration of WoW is because not everything is balanced and not everything is viable. I can choose to play a Balance Druid right now, it will suck, but that's how it is.

Not everything should be balanced and it's OK to have imba things. Paladins can still be destroyed by other classes, just because some classes suffer from Paladins doesn't mean anything. I play Paladin and Warlock and there are much better classes like Warrior and Mage that I don't play.

It's like complaining that the game Rock, Paper, Scissors is not balanced, because each element completely annihilates one other element.

[Dhrazar]

That's because on the website we were promised basically tbc but in azeroth. Instead, we got some shitty scuffed version of vanilla. The game would be much better had they just copied tbc but they seem too arrogant to acknowledge they fucked up and fix the glaring issues present on this server.

Dude it's like we are soul twins. The exact same thing I thought since I started paladin. Why didn't they just go TBC talents, instead of doing their own weird class shit for years which will never fixed.
I really like the custom abilities like shamans have, but the basic class changes could be just copied from TBC.

[Kairion]

Well there are a couple reasons. For one, TBC talents massively powercreep classes if done without changes to every single questzone instance & raid (back in 2006 when the BC prepatch came out, people went and 5 manned nax bosses...)
So porting the talent trees over doesn't solve the problems, it just creates different ones.

It also drastically changes the identity of enhancement shaman, resto druid and demonology warlock. Arguable if for the better or for worse, but its a substantial departure from classic. Further than any turtle change has been.

Well there are a couple reasons. For one, TBC talents massively powercreep classes if done without changes to every single questzone instance & raid (back in 2006 when the BC prepatch came out, people went and 5 manned nax bosses...)
So porting the talent trees over doesn't solve the problems, it just creates different ones.

It also drastically changes the identity of enhancement shaman, resto druid and demonology warlock. Arguable if for the better or for worse, but its a substantial departure from classic. Further than any turtle change has been.

While probably a fun experience, i don't think it would deserve the title "classic plus" and rather would be "2.0 prepatch"

[Dhrazar]

Well there are a couple reasons. For one, TBC talents massively powercreep classes if done without changes to every single questzone instance & raid (back in 2006 when the BC prepatch came out, people went and 5 manned nax bosses...)
So porting the talent trees over doesn't solve the problems, it just creates different ones.

It also drastically changes the identity of enhancement shaman, resto druid and demonology warlock. Arguable if for the better or for worse, but its a substantial departure from classic. Further than any turtle change has been.

While probably a fun experience, i don't think it would deserve the title "classic plus" and rather would be "2.0 prepatch"

Of course there must be changes to the difficulty. You heared about project epoch? They are doing exactly that, TBC talents, on Wotlk client, and adjust everything to match vanilla difficulty.

[Tasman]

Being forced to wear a dress and heal for over fifteen years has really left some players with mental scars.

That's because on the website we were promised basically tbc but in azeroth. Instead, we got some shitty scuffed version of vanilla. The game would be much better had they just copied tbc but they seem too arrogant to acknowledge they fucked up and fix the glaring issues present on this server.

They copied, atleast one TBC talent, but hilariously picked worst from what they could (Ardent Defender).
Sometimes I think devs purposely, make worst possible implementations of talents and skills (single target taunt, mana regen, threat maintenance, surviability improvements and so on).

[Darkstromkar]

Nerf Shaman and to that aberration made of a ball of meat harder than a stone that is immune to everything and that can go through a bg in a matter of seconds called feral druid

[Dhrazar]

Dunno whats wrong with Ardent Defender, it's sick af.
I have more questions about Reckoning, because, as a tank, how often do you get critted?!
This talent is absolut useless, as long as it remains in the Protection tree. It should have been in Retribution from the beginning.

[Kairion]

Reckoning decent while leveling - Sword Specialisation is a 5% chance to proc when you swing. While lvling and fighting mobs at your lvl reckoning is a 5% chance to proc whenever something hits YOU. which happens quite a bit as a tankpally.

It just has anti synergy with paladins goal to not get critted, so as you are lvl 60 it falls off a cliff and Vengeance just becomes more attractive for tanking.

Ardent defender has the same problem - its okey while lvling and in early 60 dungeons. but in both these cases picking up some other talents in Holy is usually better. And in Raids ardent defender might as well not exist. It only works if you are below 35% BEFORE you get hit. so any decently strong attack will knock you out even with the decent dmg reduction from ardent defender.

[Tasman]

Dunno whats wrong with Ardent Defender, it's sick af.
I have more questions about Reckoning, because, as a tank, how often do you get critted?!
This talent is absolut useless, as long as it remains in the Protection tree. It should have been in Retribution from the beginning.

Problem with [Ardent Defender] that paladin dont have too much spare hp, that can effectively absorb incoming damage, after 25% reduction is enabled. Wotlk version of it was much better, atleast it allowed paladin to survive deathblow each 2 minutes and could be modified with defense skill.
About [Reckoning], it should prock from defensive characteristics like block, parry, dodge, which is directly increased by defense skill. Current one works opposite, because defense skill decreases chance being critically hit, which is pretty controversial thing. Or as an alternative, devs can make it work from all attacks, that was landed on paladin, something like 35% chance that enemy hit will grant extra attack.
I think, prot needs some not just TBC talents, but their improved versions, which was done in wrath expansion, I mean deep prot tree ones like [Ardent defender], [Reckoning], [Spiritual Attunement] and [Avengers Shield].

[Boras]

Being forced to wear a dress and heal for over fifteen years has really left some players with mental scars.

That's because on the website we were promised basically tbc but in azeroth. Instead, we got some shitty scuffed version of vanilla. The game would be much better had they just copied tbc but they seem too arrogant to acknowledge they fucked up and fix the glaring issues present on this server.

They copied, atleast one TBC talent, but hilariously picked worst from what they could (Ardent Defender).
Sometimes I think devs purposely, make worst possible implementations of talents and skills (single target taunt, mana regen, threat maintenance, surviability improvements and so on).

It’s actually a worse version since it’s only 25%, which honestly does nothing. It doesn’t prevent your death at all, just another wasted talent point, especially since mobs do 2-3x the damage they should on here. It was only semi relevant in tbc because of the inflated health pools. Even then, it could be very easily leapfrogged, which is why they made it a cheat death mechanic in wotlk.

I only have 5061 hp unbuffed. That means it doesn’t kick in until I have 1771 hp. If a boss hits for 2k, that’s still hitting for 1500. So I have a wiggle room of 271 hp to survive a hit. It’s a joke. You’re honestly better off putting the talent somewhere else to get actual benefit from something. I’ll tell you how many times ardent defender saved my life. Zero.

[Sunflowerdeath1]

If paladins were not OP it wouldn't be HALF of alliance side on every BG

[Werefox]

If paladins were not OP it wouldn't be HALF of alliance side on every BG

Textbook nonsequitur.

[Bigsmerf]

If paladins were not OP it wouldn't be HALF of alliance side on every BG

This is a pretty simple, yet effective argument, I'd say. For those that believe pallies aren't broken in pvp, just remember.
80% of the population IS complaining about pally being busted. Surely SOMEONE in that massive majority must have some credibility, wouldn't you think?