The Hardcore Update: Inferno Mode

[Xerilin]

If we have to have hc, this sounds like a good change. Being able to tell right away whether somebody is hc or not, is a plus. This way, people can play in whatever guild they like and still find hc groups. Also, people have been waiting for 60 hc. Now they got it. Let the dying begin!

[Thyx]

I'd really like to see the 1% down all of Nax in hardcore... IMO Won't happen.

[Akalix]

It might be a stupid question, but does death in Challenger Mode PvP count as death?

Yes -- Challenger is treated as an extension of the Hardcore gamemode, meaning any death = done.

[Ingameacc12345]

[Gladeshadow]

I really dont like that the standard HC guild <Still Alive> will be retired...
Its always cool to run around and see others with the same tag and for those that dont leave the guild its easy to be recognised as hc by randos too.

Noone was forced to stay there but removing the option to be there i find weird.

there's literally a new marker that shows who is HC in place of the guild. do people not read?

Time for the favorite question! Do you read?

The person quite clearly explained that some people do not want to be marked as hardcore. They previously did this by leaving Still Alive. The announcement said there will be a new HC marker but never specified if their is a way to remove said marker.

I generally stay in HC. Just explaining the commenter’s concern since someone didn’t read.

[Malutor93]

I hope the server will still remain, as absolutely no death appeals.. Otherwise expect lots of appeals from 60 lvls dying to random server laggs/idiots in raid XD

[Randomlyryan]

No more <Still Alive> ?

No thanks, bad change. Full pass.

[Edouchan]

Can we please look into putting HC players on a different world from non-hc. The fact we cant group together means that were always compereing for quests and resources, its literally the sane ganeolay experience as being on a server full of bots.

[Akalix]

I hope the server will still remain, as absolutely no death appeals.. Otherwise expect lots of appeals from 60 lvls dying to random server laggs/idiots in raid XD

We do not plan to add appeals. Death = Death.

[Akalix]

Can we please look into putting HC players on a different world from non-hc. The fact we cant group together means that were always compereing for quests and resources, its literally the sane ganeolay experience as being on a server full of bots.

Unfortunately, we are not planning to open another realm currently, as our philosophy is being a warm, welcoming home for people to play at their own pace, and to come back to later if you opt to take a break.

[Akalix]

No more <Still Alive> ?

No thanks, bad change. Full pass.

Unfortunately, <Still Alive> causes quite a few problems.

1. GMs need to be in multiple public Guilds at the same time to moderate them. This is not possible.
2. Lack of community building (Players are actively discouraged from joining guilds with friends, as they need <Still Alive> to access the HC ecosystem for groups and trades)
3. Players who /gquit at level 1 from spam immediately lose all access to groups and trades.

List goes on, but the community damage one is the biggest issue. Guilds are, as a system, intended to be groups of people who want to play together and socialize with eachother. A guild of 10,000 people is very departed from this concept.

Folks will still be able to find groups easily with the [Hardcore] channel, they just now have the added ability to seek out meaningful community without being punished for it.

[Edouchan]

Can we please look into putting HC players on a different world from non-hc. The fact we cant group together means that were always compereing for quests and resources, its literally the sane ganeolay experience as being on a server full of bots.

Unfortunately, we are not planning to open another realm currently, as our philosophy is being a warm, welcoming home for people to play at their own pace, and to come back to later if you opt to take a break.

Is there nothing that can be done to eleviate the annoyance? Like if HC players tag a mob, let the non HC get quest progress if they get a hit. There seems to be a lot of aggression towards eachother because of how it stands currently

[Malutor93]

Can we please look into putting HC players on a different world from non-hc. The fact we cant group together means that were always compereing for quests and resources, its literally the sane ganeolay experience as being on a server full of bots.

Unfortunately, we are not planning to open another realm currently, as our philosophy is being a warm, welcoming home for people to play at their own pace, and to come back to later if you opt to take a break.

Is there nothing that can be done to eleviate the annoyance? Like if HC players tag a mob, let the non HC get quest progress if they get a hit. There seems to be a lot of aggression towards eachother because of how it stands currently

Why would HC get such privilege over normal players? That sounds disgustingly unfair.

[Nokidding]

Still Alive was an absolute shitshow with the current population.

It's the far better solution to have a global Hardcore chat where everyone (from all guilds) who is hardcore is joining.

And like it was announced there will be some indicator of a hardcore char, so you WILL know if someone is hardcore when you see them.

All in all, this is a big W for turtle.

[Ugoboom]

Before:
Hardcores get their own chat, but people who leave the guild lose this chat
Many hcs were in still alive, but quite a lot were not. There is no way to tell definiteively who is and isn't.

After:
Hardcores get their own chat and never lose access
You will always be able to tell who is a HC and who isn't with the new marking.

The only loss is yeah, this new tag needs to be searchable with /who. something like /who m-hc 40-45 for example.

[Edouchan]

Unfortunately, we are not planning to open another realm currently, as our philosophy is being a warm, welcoming home for people to play at their own pace, and to come back to later if you opt to take a break.

Is there nothing that can be done to eleviate the annoyance? Like if HC players tag a mob, let the non HC get quest progress if they get a hit. There seems to be a lot of aggression towards eachother because of how it stands currently

Why would HC get such privilege over normal players? That sounds disgustingly unfair.

I didnt suggest to change anything from HC perspective. I said to let non-hc get quest progress, not vice versa

[Malutor93]

Is there nothing that can be done to eleviate the annoyance? Like if HC players tag a mob, let the non HC get quest progress if they get a hit. There seems to be a lot of aggression towards eachother because of how it stands currently

Why would HC get such privilege over normal players? That sounds disgustingly unfair.

I didnt suggest to change anything from HC perspective. I said to let non-hc get quest progress, not vice versa

Oh I'm sorry I read wrong. But imo it still is unnecessary change as in game it doesn't matter who is hc or non hc. If someone tags mob.. it's his and end of story.

[Rud2l]

Will I still get the Immortal title even if I do the 55 attunement? Sounds much cooler than Challenger.

[Edouchan]

Why would HC get such privilege over normal players? That sounds disgustingly unfair.

I didnt suggest to change anything from HC perspective. I said to let non-hc get quest progress, not vice versa

Oh I'm sorry I read wrong. But imo it still is unnecessary change as in game it doesn't matter who is hc or non hc. If someone tags mob.. it's his and end of story.

No not end of story. Theres a clear problem with how it works currently given the servers current pop, which is the whole point. Im not saying its this or nothing, im saying it should be addressed.

Sorry my guy but your replies are pretty counter productive so ill probably not respond to your next message if it followes suit.

[Nerat]

Is there nothing that can be done to eleviate the annoyance? Like if HC players tag a mob, let the non HC get quest progress if they get a hit. There seems to be a lot of aggression towards eachother because of how it stands currently

I think the actual annoyance are non-HC players and their suggestions like getting free credit for someone else's kill. What next, you want loot from mobs HC players kill to be available freely for all non-HC chars too?

[Malutor93]

I didnt suggest to change anything from HC perspective. I said to let non-hc get quest progress, not vice versa

Oh I'm sorry I read wrong. But imo it still is unnecessary change as in game it doesn't matter who is hc or non hc. If someone tags mob.. it's his and end of story.

No not end of story. Theres a clear problem with how it works currently given the servers current pop, which is the whole point. Im not saying its this or nothing, im saying it should be addressed.

Sorry my guy but your replies are pretty counter productive so ill probably not respond to your next message if it followes suit.

But the question is why do you want to get credit for what HC player kills? What does it matter if HC or normie character pulled mob? So if other normal character pulls mob, it's okay to be not credited like usual? What you are suggesting is simply weird and I'm 99% sure it ain't happening.

[Draconuuse]

My main issue at this point is making sure /who can still function to find HC players. At the moment you can search for people in <Still Alive> by zone to find people for elite and dungeon quests. Until they find a way to add a HC tag in /who or some other solution. Maybe a LFT-HC tool. They shouldn't disband <Still Alive>.

Go ahead and add the HC world channel though. No need to wait on that. I honestly don't understand why we can't have both. But it seems that decision has already been made and decided on.

[Geojak]

Don't call it challenger of the frost. Call it challenger of th scourge. Or challenger of the undead

[Gladeshadow]

This caters to the interest of those in Hard Chores. A small community to be sure, but more will certainly join them in the pursuit of titles.

I would rather simply see a division hardcore and standard servers at this point. Yes, the single server is getting crowded and all signs indicate more players will join. Even in high level zones I'm seeing a bunch of people questing, more than I did on high pop vanilla retail servers. Having 2 servers would solve this and would also do more for keeping the sense of community in tact when reaching 60:
I've reached immortal status on a couple characters. I'm also not a raider and have no interest in scheduling my life around a game rather than a game around my life, which is really how it should be. That commentary aside, I like the hardcore community much more than the standard player community. There is a sense of intention and caution when playing rather than being underleveled, dying 5 times to the same quest, but getting lucky on the 6th try. Hardcore players care much less about rushing for gear from dungeons they can't reasonably complete without party deaths. Overall, it's a much more in character mode of playing. On reaching 60, I'd like there to be a way to stay in this community without being a raider. I'd also like to finally be able to enjoy the entire battleground portion of the game that is effectively closed off to a hardcore player; yes, of course a player can do battlegrounds if they accept the possibility of death, but it's still a significant portion of the game hardcore players shouldn't be doing at all. Letting the immortal 60s stay on the hardcore server for the sense of community and being able to do battlegrounds as well as lower risk raids would be fine while the challenger hardcore do their thing on the same server.

Please consider the route of 2 servers rather than only effectively dividing the hardcore community.

[Stonnefree2]

I would Suggest removing War mode for all Hardcore characters, before they get punished for it.
HC with Warmode = kill.

[Bloodphobos]

@Akalix Idea to add HC for 60 player is great, but tree new additions make me feel very sad

• With this change, we will be retiring the <Still Alive> guild upon release. A new indicator will be added to show that players are participating in the Hardcore Gamemode.

Why do you remove still alive for ppl who didn't get 60? this addition probably was one of the marvelous thing in Turtle HC wow and now you kill it. Still alive brought absolutely new quality of social relation and was a strawberry of this server. Guys, I'm absolutely sure you are gin to do BIGGG MISTAKE! Why don't you left still alive as is for ppl who didn't reach 60? What the problem to keep it? Please double think again and don't remove “still alive” with its lampy atmosphere.

New Titles

• Challenger - Title for those who complete the [Challenger] attunement.

• Conqueror of the Flames - Challenger Ragnaros Kill

• Conqueror of the Dragons - Challenger Nefarian Kill

• Conqueror of the Qiraji - Challenger C'Thun Kill

• Conqueror of the Frozen - Challenger Kel'Thuzad Kill

• Ascended Champion - The deal is done, penned in blood. Did you really think you'd be able to back out now?

There are so many new titles which do not have anything with existing Immortal. Don't you think this change devalues existing "Immortal" achievements? I think, no doubt. Why didn't you create all new titles with the "Immortal" prefix, like "Immortal of the Flames", "Immortal of the Dragons".. In that case everyone knows that "Wow, this guy is a cool man, he managed to do Immortal and even more - managed to kill Ragnaros as immortal , wow!"..., when after your update we get absolutely new titles, they will be VERY VERY VERY rare and everyone just won't associate them with well known "Immortal"

Also, according to the provided description, it seems like you want to allow ppl who already farm Naxx with closed eyes to start the 60 HC chain and get Conqueror of the Frozen right after the patch. If this is true - this is an awful and ridiculous addition.

[Dannyp92]

Disappointing change with the disbanding of <Still Alive>. If you're going to do that you must come up with a solution that is better than a guild. Having a world chat for HC is good, but not sufficient, because it's harder to differentiate world chat text from other world chat texts. Also, the guild provided sorting functions (you could sort by zone, lvl, etc. and use that to whisper people).

Moreover I just find it an unnecessary chance. Newcomers go into <Newcomers> by default, so I think it's fine HC-players have an equivalent. If someone doesn't like the chat/community/size of the guild they're free to leave and create their own, or use the new world channel to find groups.

[Elesion]

• With this change, we will be retiring the <Still Alive> guild upon release. A new indicator will be added to show that players are participating in the Hardcore Gamemode.

Love it! Might I suggest a permanent Hunter's Mark or a permanent "skull" raid symbol over their head?

On a more serious note: While not being 100% (hc people could and did leave Still Alive) the guild still was very convenient because it would show up on an in-game /who search. So if you saw someone advertising for a quest or a trade without specifying their hc status you could quickly check by shift-clicking on their name. I hope the new indicator will also show up on /who and not just be visible on the character. Then it would be a straight improvement for me.

Also, I would bet money that day 1 of the change people create a successor guild and just advertise it on the hardcore channel that everyone auto-joins. So people who want the grab-all guild experience will still land in one, it will just be community-run and not official.

[Elesion]

Having a world chat for HC is good, but not sufficient, because it's harder to differentiate world chat text from other world chat texts.

You can give every channel whatever color you want - right-click the chat tab and then the colored square beside each channel to customize it.

[Unza]

Please dont retire the Still Alive guild.

[Elisleris]

Hardcore Guildbanks

• Players with the [Challenger] gamemode will now be able to purchase and access Guild Bank tabs. Hardcore players without [Challenger] gamemode will still be unable to access Guild Banks.

Is that mean HC player with Challenger mode can trade items with normal player via Guild bank if they are both in the same guild?

[Shener]

@Akalix Idea to add HC for 60 player is great, but tree new additions make me feel very sad

• With this change, we will be retiring the <Still Alive> guild upon release. A new indicator will be added to show that players are participating in the Hardcore Gamemode.

Why do you remove still alive for ppl who didn't get 60? this addition probably was one of the marvelous thing in Turtle HC wow and now you kill it. Still alive brought absolutely new quality of social relation and was a strawberry of this server. Guys, I'm absolutely sure you are gin to do BIGGG MISTAKE! Why don't you left still alive as is for ppl who didn't reach 60? What the problem to keep it? Please double think again and don't remove “still alive” with its lampy atmosphere.

New Titles

• Challenger - Title for those who complete the [Challenger] attunement.

• Conqueror of the Flames - Challenger Ragnaros Kill

• Conqueror of the Dragons - Challenger Nefarian Kill

• Conqueror of the Qiraji - Challenger C'Thun Kill

• Conqueror of the Frozen - Challenger Kel'Thuzad Kill

• Ascended Champion - The deal is done, penned in blood. Did you really think you'd be able to back out now?

There are so many new titles which do not have anything with existing Immortal. Don't you think this change devalues existing "Immortal" achievements? I think, no doubt. Why didn't you create all new titles with the "Immortal" prefix, like "Immortal of the Flames", "Immortal of the Dragons".. In that case everyone knows that "Wow, this guy is a cool man, he managed to do Immortal and even more - managed to kill Ragnaros as immortal , wow!"..., when after your update we get absolutely new titles, they will be VERY VERY VERY rare and everyone just won't associate them with well known "Immortal"

Also, according to the provided description, it seems like you want to allow ppl who already farm Naxx with closed eyes to start the 60 HC chain and get Conqueror of the Frozen right after the patch. If this is true - this is an awful and ridiculous addition.

exactly the same thinking & feeling as mine bro, Bump!

[Bellybutton]

Just out of curiosity; Is there a way to opt out of the indicator showing that tells people you're Hardcore? I'm leveling a Hardcore Warmode character (for the challenge) and I'm somewhere in my level 40s. A big part of the reason I've gotten this high on my character is because I've camouflaged in with the non-Hardcore characters by leaving Still Alive and joining a normal guild (I've had a known Hardcore griefer run right by me completely oblivious).
An indicator saying I'm hardcore would ruin my character and effectively eliminate all chances of him getting to 60.

[Gladeshadow]

I agree, the Still Alive guild is super useful to see if there is anyone online within a level range (of course assuming they haven't left the guild). I know it has saved my time when searching for a dungeon group to check if there are any suitable tank, healers, or even dps online within the level range. I know other players check the guild in the same way. Also, not everyone always has guild chat or a looking for group chat or even LFT (doesn't work for HC, but you get the point) on or they may not be paying attention to it even when they are available and would like to join a group. HC version of LFT would help alleviate this. And if that's not possible, it's another reason to consider 2 distinct servers.

[Rainerurin]

Just out of curiosity; Is there a way to opt out of the indicator showing that tells people you're Hardcore? I'm leveling a Hardcore Warmode character (for the challenge) and I'm somewhere in my level 40s. A big part of the reason I've gotten this high on my character is because I've camouflaged in with the non-Hardcore characters by leaving Still Alive and joining a normal guild (I've had a known Hardcore griefer run right by me completely oblivious).
An indicator saying I'm hardcore would ruin my character and effectively eliminate all chances of him getting to 60.

then it was not a good ganker...ganker's have a makro to inv a targeted player if they ain't sure that it is a hc char or not, if he can't be invited into party he clearly is hc and gets jumped on