Shifting Marksmanship Hunter towards a Petless Option

[Chronoslicer]

Though i do love the added gameplay options and pet management as a whole, i feel as though there should be an option for a hunter to go petless, either through a talent or passive buff.

There are plenty of examples of marksmen, rangers, and the like that boast superior ranged capabilities without having the use of a pet in warcraft history/lore, and i feel this would be a nice addition to the game if implemented correctly

I am not a designer, but i think a talent that gives you benefits from not having a pet summoned, like a flat increase to damage to even out the loss of pet damage, or a unique utility that would help them to stand out a bit would be nice.

There would have to be drawback or some type of mechanic difference to keep it a little interesting and to keep it from being op, but i think it would add some spice to the game, in addition to being lore friendly.

What are your thoughts? Concerns?

[Gantulga]

No. Hunters are already mindless to play here and that'd make it even worse.

[Cervantes]

I've always liked this idea, making the hunter more like an archer or ranger?

Maybe not having a pet increase your base stats, or you open up some different skills to help fill the void of not having a pet.

[Cervantes]

I also like a new spell that I thought of that you get from Beast Mastery tree at the bottom called "Calling the Wild"
Your pets, including the ones in the stables, appear at your side in battle for 30 secs
1 hour cooldown....

[Heine]

It's not like we dont have 50 hunters per battleground already facerolling multishots and viper stings,

[Maesus]

No. Hunters are already mindless to play here and that'd make it even worse.

How? Pet management is one thing but pets alone make hunter leveling so mindless. Just send your pet in and be careful to not steal aggro. And what do you mean "here"? You have some minor changes + attack speed boost, and then Trueshot, which doesn't add anything new, you just weave it in between your auto shots.

Withou a pet, you'd have to maintain your distance and keep moving. Having a pet tank is the mindless option.

[Ravenstone]

I don't particularly like the idea of rewarding Hunters for not using their pet, especially not something to replace the damage they get from their pet.

Having said that, I've thought having a more utility style pet that didn't attack could be cool. Kinda harkening back to the WC3 Owl Scout skill.

[Chronoslicer]

No. Hunters are already mindless to play here and that'd make it even worse.

While i do agree that the gameplay for hunters is relaxed, you can say that for most other, if not all classes. How exactly do you think it would make it worse, if you dont mind elaborating

[Gantulga]

No. Hunters are already mindless to play here and that'd make it even worse.

While i do agree that the gameplay for hunters is relaxed, you can say that for most other, if not all classes. How exactly do you think it would make it worse, if you dont mind elaborating

Trueshot dumbed down the hunter gameplay quite a lot. Removing the pet from the equation would only make it worse.
There are also PvP concerns since hunters already have high burst and pressure.

[Fixaren1]

Imo hunters are most likely strongest class in pvp, in ab and wsg they have high control over the battle. Make them stronger would be bad. Hard to kill and do high DMG with mana burn and great cc. Can't give hunters more DMG/cc or survival. So what are the buff gonna be if you don't use pet? If you stand still for 15-20 sec give x% amount DMG maybe would work.

[Chronoslicer]

Imo hunters are most likely strongest class in pvp, in ab and wsg they have high control over the battle. Make them stronger would be bad. Hard to kill and do high DMG with mana burn and great cc. Can't give hunters more DMG/cc or survival. So what are the buff gonna be if you don't use pet? If you stand still for 15-20 sec give x% amount DMG maybe would work.

i was thinking a overall drastic reduced chance to hit with ranged weapons while moving, and a boost to base dmg when standing still, as one thing

[Werefox]

Yep. Let's penalize the playstyle that requires any sort of skill at all and reward roleplay of a talking turret.

[Ugoboom]

It would take a lot of work to add complexity to the marksman nopet build, that would be lost in the removal of their pet. A bad simplification of thegame. Just like the new steadyshot was, it simplified hunter for the worse.

Yes I do agree we should see pet scaling with stats so they arent as irrelevant at 60. And for BM and survival to be viable for endgame 60 raiding.

With a total rework yeah I could see marksman finding balance as a nopet option but with a way harder rotation involving aimed shot etc. Something harder than we've ever seen in vanilla.

[Ninoa]

It would take a lot of work to add complexity to the marksman nopet build, that would be lost in the removal of their pet. A bad simplification of thegame. Just like the new steadyshot was, it simplified hunter for the worse.

Yes I do agree we should see pet scaling with stats so they arent as irrelevant at 60. And for BM and survival to be viable for endgame 60 raiding.

With a total rework yeah I could see marksman finding balance as a nopet option but with a way harder rotation involving aimed shot etc. Something harder than we've ever seen in vanilla.

Not considering melee weaving, how did trueshot simplify hunter for the worse? Clunky aimed shot got replaced with trueshot, but you still weave in multishot and need to time your autoshots. With a weapon slow enough, you can now even add arcane shot or serpent sting to the rotation. If anything, the pure ranged rotation got more interesting, imho.

That said, I do agree adding a petless option for a damage increase would be a bad simplification of the hunter class.

[Ugoboom]

Not considering melee weaving, how did trueshot simplify hunter for the worse? Clunky aimed shot got replaced with trueshot, but you still weave in multishot and need to time your autoshots. With a weapon slow enough, you can now even add arcane shot or serpent sting to the rotation. If anything, the pure ranged rotation got more interesting, imho.

That said, I do agree adding a petless option for a damage increase would be a bad simplification of the hunter class.

You can't just say "not considering meele weaving" lmao. Yes consider it. It was based and vanilla pilled. Sure, meele weaving in our balancing was a total meme and often a dps loss, but tuning it so that it actually functioned and worked woulda been awesome. An interesting way for minmaxers to squeeze every bit of their class out and use spells that are otherwise never used. I don't see a single possible way it could return with trueshot as we have it. Maybe with trueshot as designed pre 1.16.1 where it has a cooldown based on weapon speed.

No aimed shot is a loss I feel. People love big phatty hits every so often. MS/BT and HS, 5pt evisc, stormstrike, Holy strike, raptor strike, everyone phys has these. Hunter lost theirs other than on cheeky prepull casts and idk man I think thats' a loss. I'd like to see it return alongside trueshot, not replaced by it.