You need to fix paladin asap

[Boras]

Fix taunt. Give me Hand of Reckoning, not this stupid jank Seal of Justice nonsense. I literally see Hand of Reckoning appear on the target when I taunt it. Taunt should not be tied to Judgement. That's just bad game design. So, if for some reason I lose aggro, I need to dump 223 mana. I then either to determine if I want Seal of Wisdom or Seal of Righteousness. Obviously, so I don't lose aggro literally immediately after taunting, I'm gonna opt for Seal of Righteousness. There's another 144 mana... Oh, I also lost Judgement of Wisdom on my target because now it has Judgement of Justice on it! Great, so now I'm not regenning mana to keep threat up because now I have to wait 10 sec (8 if talented) to use Judgement of Wisdom, which again, costs another 214 mana for the seal and judgement. I then need to use another seal like Seal of Wisdom or Seal of Righteousness afterward...

So now I'm at a huge disadvantage with mana because I literally had to dump everything into just a single taunt and then have to start from scratch with Judgment of Wisdom on a target.... So, if I lose aggro ever on a target, I spend a total of 725 mana. Let's also keep in mind I still need to idk tank?! So, there's another 390 mana from Consecration and 175 mana for Holy Shield. So now I'm out a total of 1290 mana for a taunt and to keep aggro?!?! This is also assuming I don't immediately lose threat again on the target, so I need to use a taunt again, which basically drains me to 0 mana... I have 2792 mana total at 55 with decent gear. This needs to be fixed or warrior and bear need 50 rage to taunt, and they can't use any abilities for 10 seconds after the taunt from now on, only auto attacks. This is ridiculous...

Give me Hand of Reckoning and make it like 50 mana max... Even then, that's pushin it cuz warriors and bears can taunt for free. You just had to copy tbc here....

[Geojak]

What a pleased surprise. When I read the title I thight it's another paladin pvp cry post.

I agree on taunts problem I also made a topic post about it
viewtopic.php?p=36491&hilit=Worse+than+you+think#p36491

[Myclassisbroke]

Please buff Holy strike too. Make it so 300% Increased damage I'm struggling to one shot Naxx warrs with these measly 6000 crits. (on plate)

[Wrathweaver]

Please buff Holy strike too. Make it so 300% Increased damage I'm struggling to one shot Naxx warrs with these measly 6000 crits. (on plate)

69+

[Geojak]

Please buff Holy strike too. Make it so 300% Increased damage I'm struggling to one shot Naxx warrs with these measly 6000 crits. (on plate)

Go back to your troll posts

[Tasman]

I suggest something like this.
[Seal of Reckoning] - proper baseline taunting seal trained at 10 lvl. Implementation of it would look like that - when it is active on paladin all his attacks (physical/holy) would generate 20% of additional threat (stacks with Righteous Fury) and taunt target when discharged, droping effect Hand of Reckoning that forces target to attack paladin for 6 seconds and make it not remove on target effect from previously used seal.
As for [Improved Seal of Justice] taunting effect can be changed to 33/66/100% of immobilization for 1-2 sec when SoJ is discharged on the targed.
Also I would add new 2 point talent to holy tree located on row 2, called [Improved Holy Strike] - which would allow Holy Strike to deal 50% of damage to 2 nearby targets and reduce mana cost of it by 20%. To improve tanking packs of mobs.

[Karrados]

A row 2 Talent would be able to be taken by Holy and Retribution too and the last thing you want for them is to get a 50% cleave on two targets with probably one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game.

[Tasman]

A row 2 Talent would be able to be taken by Holy and Retribution too and the last thing you want for them is to get a 50% cleave on two targets with probably one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game.

Numbers can be changed.

[Ravenstone]

Also I would add new 2 point talent to holy tree located on row 2, called [Improved Holy Strike] - which would allow Holy Strike to deal 50% of damage to 2 nearby targets and reduce mana cost of it by 20%. To improve tanking packs of mobs.

Why on earth would Paladins need more help tanking packs? They already are the best AoE tanking class.

[Tasman]

Also I would add new 2 point talent to holy tree located on row 2, called [Improved Holy Strike] - which would allow Holy Strike to deal 50% of damage to 2 nearby targets and reduce mana cost of it by 20%. To improve tanking packs of mobs.

Why on earth would Paladins need more help tanking packs? They already are the best AoE tanking class.

Just want to move from hedgehog tank concept and make devotion aura usable in tanking. Holy cleave would be alternative to it.

[Ravenstone]

Just want to move from hedgehog tank concept and make devotion aura usable in tanking. Holy cleave would be alternative to it.

So basically you want to change the entire class identity when it comes to tanking. I'm against it. Your Devotion Aura providing Crit reduction alone would've helped there making it useful for singular bosses. There is no need for a Holy Strike Cleave, it sounds exactly the same as Warriors... I'm still not clear how the cleave is an alternative when it can be used in conjucture with Retri Aura, Holy Shield and Cons

[Bittermens]

I hate from the bottom of my soul how garbage paladin itemization is at the moment at pre raid and even ZG
TW should had sorted it out the Healing plate situation and make it on par with cloth, same goes to trinkets.

It is a miserable experience having to share gear with cloth, mail and leather when plate which is suppose to be your class specification being shit.
Or all librams being garbage until naxx.

[Tasman]

Just want to move from hedgehog tank concept and make devotion aura usable in tanking. Holy cleave would be alternative to it.

So basically you want to change the entire class identity when it comes to tanking. I'm against it. Your Devotion Aura providing Crit reduction alone would've helped there making it useful for singular bosses. There is no need for a Holy Strike Cleave, it sounds exactly the same as Warriors... I'm still not clear how the cleave is an alternative when it can be used in conjucture with Retri Aura, Holy Shield and Cons

This class identity thinking already led us to absence of proper taunt. Also prot tree already have some talents, that are literal copy paste of those that warriors prot tree have and no one complains about identity there.
The idea is, that you dont need to pick up improved ret aura, blessing of sanctuary and holy shield. This give more freedom making alternative tanking builds. Idea is that you invest in to surviability, because paladin dont have defesive skills - like Shield Wall and Last Stand. You can still use ret aura, blessing of sanctuary, holy shield with holy cleave and cosecration, but you will have less surviability.

[Ravenstone]

This class identity thinking already led us to absence of proper taunt. Also prot tree already have some talents, that are literal copy paste of those that warriors prot tree have and no one complains about identity there.

No, a terribly designed implementation of a taunt has led us to this situation. In no way do I support the current implementation of it.

Talents are always going to have overlap due to both using the same stats/equipment types for the most part for tanking, none of them are key indentifiers of the spec. Blessing of Sanctuary and Holy Shield are unique to the Paladin, as is Consecration. If you give Paladins Holy Strike Cleave, then you might as well give Warriors a persistent Thunderclap that stays on the ground and does AoE damage as an alternative way of tanking...

The idea is, that you dont need to pick up improved ret aura, blessing of sanctuary and holy shield. This give more freedom making alternative tanking builds. Idea is that you invest in to surviability, because paladin dont have defesive skills - like Shield Wall and Last Stand. You can still use ret aura, blessing of sanctuary, holy shield with holy cleave and cosecration, but you will have less surviability.

I dont disagree they need more survivability or even defensive cd skills. But your cleave idea just adds to their current AoE tanking ability, which they need zero help with. If you aim to give specs different styles, you just make them too similar to one another, especially when you Holy Strike literally became Warrior's Cleave ability, but better.

[Tasman]

This class identity thinking already led us to absence of proper taunt. Also prot tree already have some talents, that are literal copy paste of those that warriors prot tree have and no one complains about identity there.

No, a terribly designed implementation of a taunt has led us to this situation. In no way do I support the current implementation of it.

Talents are always going to have overlap due to both using the same stats/equipment types for the most part for tanking, none of them are key indentifiers of the spec. Blessing of Sanctuary and Holy Shield are unique to the Paladin, as is Consecration. If you give Paladins Holy Strike Cleave, then you might as well give Warriors a persistent Thunderclap that stays on the ground and does AoE damage as an alternative way of tanking...

The idea is, that you dont need to pick up improved ret aura, blessing of sanctuary and holy shield. This give more freedom making alternative tanking builds. Idea is that you invest in to surviability, because paladin dont have defesive skills - like Shield Wall and Last Stand. You can still use ret aura, blessing of sanctuary, holy shield with holy cleave and cosecration, but you will have less surviability.

I dont disagree they need more survivability or even defensive cd skills. But your cleave idea just adds to their current AoE tanking ability, which they need zero help with. If you aim to give specs different styles, you just make them too similar to one another, especially when you Holy Strike literally became Warrior's Cleave ability, but better.

I will not coplain about that, maybe it is better to stick with skills and talents from later expansions that actually works and just give paladin Avengers shield instead of Improves holy Strike. That would be even better, allowing pull multiple mobs at range.

[Nameis2]

Also I would add new 2 point talent to holy tree located on row 2, called [Improved Holy Strike] - which would allow Holy Strike to deal 50% of damage to 2 nearby targets and reduce mana cost of it by 20%. To improve tanking packs of mobs.

No, something like this should not be in Holy tree; it's more fit for Ret. Aside from SOC & Sanc Command Ret is already pretty pointless. Holy already has Imp SoR, makes more sense to put something like this into Ret to replace eye for an eye.

Something like
Replace Eye for an Eye (Eye of an Eye should be a prot talent)

• Sanctity of Battle
  
  Increase the damage of your Holy Strike and Crusader Strike by 15%/30% of weapon damage and reduce Mana cost by 35%/70%. Holy Strike causes all damage done by friendly targets affected by any of your Auras to be increased by 2%/4% for 8 seconds.

Ret is lacking dmg-increasing talents, which makes no sense and with this, it brings the whole support dmg thing the dev wants.

Ret final ability should be Divine Storm, without the healing

• Divine Storm
  Instant 10 sec cooldown
  
  An instant weapon attack that causes 65% of weapon damage to up to 4 enemies within 8 yards. The Divine Storm causes up to 3 party or raid members to regenerate their resources equal to 1% of their rage, energy, or maximum mana per 5 sec for 15 sec, and to immediately grant you 5%/10%/15%/20%/25% of your base mana for every stack of Crusader Strike on the enemies.

[Nameis2]

This class identity thinking already led us to absence of proper taunt. Also prot tree already have some talents, that are literal copy paste of those that warriors prot tree have and no one complains about identity there.

No, a terribly designed implementation of a taunt has led us to this situation. In no way do I support the current implementation of it.

Talents are always going to have overlap due to both using the same stats/equipment types for the most part for tanking, none of them are key indentifiers of the spec. Blessing of Sanctuary and Holy Shield are unique to the Paladin, as is Consecration. If you give Paladins Holy Strike Cleave, then you might as well give Warriors a persistent Thunderclap that stays on the ground and does AoE damage as an alternative way of tanking...

The idea is, that you dont need to pick up improved ret aura, blessing of sanctuary and holy shield. This give more freedom making alternative tanking builds. Idea is that you invest in to surviability, because paladin dont have defesive skills - like Shield Wall and Last Stand. You can still use ret aura, blessing of sanctuary, holy shield with holy cleave and cosecration, but you will have less surviability.

I dont disagree they need more survivability or even defensive cd skills. But your cleave idea just adds to their current AoE tanking ability, which they need zero help with. If you aim to give specs different styles, you just make them too similar to one another, especially when you Holy Strike literally became Warrior's Cleave ability, but better.

I will not coplain about that, maybe it is better to stick with skills and talents from later expansions that actually works and just give paladin Avengers shield instead of Improves holy Strike. That would be even better, allowing pull multiple mobs at range.

totally agree, from the looks of all the assets we have and how imp joj applies hand of reckoning; I think turtle wow runs on wotlk. So it wouldn't be hard for them to add in abilities up to wotlk into the game.

Also class identity can still be in and classes still works, just look at TBC; they can just give pally righteous defense and put spiritual attunement into prot tree.

[Karrados]

Turtle runs on the 1.12 Client, not the 3.3.5. So it would not be a matter of copying/activating the skill.