Enhancement Shaman Buffs

Ravenstone
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Re: Enhancement Shaman Buffs

Post by Ravenstone » Sun Apr 09, 2023 7:41 pm

Verdict wrote:
Sun Apr 09, 2023 11:15 am
- You can now proc Elemental Devastation from the Elemental Tree more viably.
Elemental Devastation only procs from Spell crits, not any nature damage crit. Your version wouldn't proc it.
- More PvE Damage.
This really depends on the implementation of it and its interaction with the Weapon Mastery talent. If it is like Holy Strike and would benefit from Weapon Mastery as well as the Nature damage buff it'd be broken. Also, this would only be true when Nature Resistance is reduced to zero, and you could reliably hit Shocks.

While the change might be nice to have, it doesn't actually change much since it hasn't done anything for the main two issues Shamans face. You still have no mana and can't hit reliably with other nature spells.

Williamson75
Posts: 112

Re: Enhancement Shaman Buffs

Post by Williamson75 » Tue Apr 11, 2023 11:31 am

What raven said plus the fact it still doesn't solve any real way to scale with current gearing options for the melee side or we hit like a wet noodle on the sp side. There isn't much hybrid shaman gear to cover that gap with the hit, or crit we need. Still we need some changes to actually play something. I just don't think yours would fix the in built problems or diversify play beyond an indirect well meant nerf

Kashchei
Posts: 29

Re: Enhancement Shaman Buffs

Post by Kashchei » Thu Apr 13, 2023 2:40 am

Just gonna give my 2 cents on a couple of things

I don't necessarily think shaman needs a second attack spell, but it's definitely not a bad idea.
I do not agree that primal strike should trigger weapon enhancements however, if anything either it OR stormstrike should be changed to generate an effect based on the weapon enhancement

IE; rockbiter knocks down a target, flametongue cleaves, frostbrand roots, windfury gives you extra MS

nothing about the scaling of frostbrand or flametongue really needs to change, there just needs to be more varied gear options for enhance.

Nature's Harmony is not a good idea for a talent, stormstrike is already bad enough for railroading you into spamming earthshock over flame or frost to maximise the timing and dps bonus. Shocks and imbues should always be used on a cas by case basis and that's shown in their scaling and even in their coefficients.

Bloodlust should be baseline, it's a good spell but a TERRIBLE capstone, it just leans more and more into the idea that shamans give all of their best class features (elemental shields, weapon imbue totems) to other classes ie; warriors and that's the only end they serve. a 5 minute cooldown that's best purpose is to help a tank generate faster threat is not worth it when you could easily just spec into ele and take elemental fury.

We also need call of the elements added, taking 4 GCD's to put down totems is crap.

Also move nature's guidance out of resto and either into ele row 2 or something idk.

Williamson75
Posts: 112

Re: Enhancement Shaman Buffs

Post by Williamson75 » Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:06 pm

With a 5 minute duration swapping weapon enhancements feels like something we should have reasons to do. Swapping between flametongue and frost brand depending on what your doing isn't major. I mean your not going to use flametongue in molten core or bwl. Not using frost brand in nax and your are not using earth shock anywhere until the threat is pulled off it. The reality is I use frost shock in raids because I can't use earth shock.

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Rafale
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Re: Enhancement Shaman Buffs

Post by Rafale » Fri Apr 14, 2023 12:53 pm

I shared this on shaman discord and most people loved it so here is my suggestion to fix Enhancement Shamans.

PS : The elemental reaction talent applies the orb proc ICD of each shield spell (3,5s). You cannot get a proc by critical hit and being hit at same time. The orb also cannot crit.

Image
I always follow those rules for suggestion :
1) Does it answer the class/spec problem ?
2) Does it keep the class identity ?
3) Does it keep the vanilla gameplay of the class/spec ?
4) Is it balanced (not OP) ?

Iraz93
Posts: 3

Re: Enhancement Shaman Buffs

Post by Iraz93 » Fri Apr 14, 2023 2:58 pm

Rafale wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2023 12:53 pm
I shared this on shaman discord and most people loved it so here is my suggestion to fix Enhancement Shamans.

PS : The elemental reaction talent applies the orb proc ICD of each shield spell (3,5s). You cannot get a proc by critical hit and being hit at same time. The orb also cannot crit.

Image
Yeah.
I've seen this on Discord and you have my full endorsment, for what's worth (aka literally nothing).

Williamson75
Posts: 112

Re: Enhancement Shaman Buffs

Post by Williamson75 » Fri Apr 14, 2023 3:33 pm

Shit I like it a lot make sure to make your own post the more people that see this the better.

Ravenstone
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Re: Enhancement Shaman Buffs

Post by Ravenstone » Fri Apr 14, 2023 3:59 pm

Rafale wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2023 12:53 pm
I shared this on shaman discord and most people loved it so here is my suggestion to fix Enhancement Shamans.

PS : The elemental reaction talent applies the orb proc ICD of each shield spell (3,5s). You cannot get a proc by critical hit and being hit at same time. The orb also cannot crit.

Image
All these on crit effects, is in not just asking a Shaman to farm MCP to max melee crits? With Elemental Focus, Flurry and Elemental Devastation (if you chose to go that route), you'd have 4 or 5 things happening on a crit. Seems very much over the top.
Also, is Critical Synergy completely replacing Improved Weapon Totems?

The Shock hit and mana ideas are there to help Enh, but I don't particularly like the implementation with so much loaded on Crits. Also not sure I'm a big fan of Bloodlust being semi permanent.

Lastly, it would be an increase to the burst damage of Elemental if they gave up the 5% crit from the Resto tree. I like the idea to give Ele some incentive to go Enh but you'd need to reduce their damage to compensate.

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Rafale
Posts: 80

Re: Enhancement Shaman Buffs

Post by Rafale » Sat Apr 15, 2023 8:07 pm

Here is some updates to reduce crit dependency :
- Elemental reaction no longer procced by crits (10% proc chance)
- Critical Synergy gives more spell hit for Shocks but a bit less spell crit from physical crit

Image
I always follow those rules for suggestion :
1) Does it answer the class/spec problem ?
2) Does it keep the class identity ?
3) Does it keep the vanilla gameplay of the class/spec ?
4) Is it balanced (not OP) ?

Ravenstone
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Re: Enhancement Shaman Buffs

Post by Ravenstone » Sun Apr 16, 2023 8:06 am

I'd be ok with this Elemental Reaction now, its a lot more worthwhile than the current Thunderhead.

I'm not really a fan of removing Imp Weapons Totems or the change to Bloodlust. I think you should split out the lower Shock Resist part to the Ele tree, replacing either Concussion or Reverb, and move the crit bit into Weapon Mastery. Weapon Mastery is really lackluster since almost all your melee is subject to Glancing Blows.

I also don't really understand why people are against the current implementation of Bloodlust. You are a support at the end of the day, not DPS. Go for Elemental Fury if you want to be DPS. I think it is fine to leave as is.

Williamson75
Posts: 112

Re: Enhancement Shaman Buffs

Post by Williamson75 » Sun Apr 16, 2023 8:02 pm

Shifting the crit to the 2h weapon damage boost talent would be interesting. Then adding the resist part to ele might be rather nice. Wouldn't replace reverb but maybe elemental warding but that would reduce the pvp side which might be fine overall

Zadarada
Posts: 1

Re: Enhancement Shaman Buffs

Post by Zadarada » Tue Apr 18, 2023 3:10 pm

I have some suggestions too without pushing the Enhancer too much towards Burning Crusade or making a complete new one.

1. Make Earth Shock our main dmg shock without aggro multiplier & make Frost shock our aggro shock.
2. Give WF Totem up to 20% aggro reduce on White Hits for the Caster of the Totem.
3. Put "Nature's Guidance" Talent into Enhancer/Elemental Tree in row two and give it 2/4/6% melee/spell hit.
4. Replace "Improved Lightning Shield" with "Energy Arc": As long Lightning Shield is active, it will deal X/X/X% damage & jumps over to two additional nearby enemys, after you land a hit with a damage spell. Each jump reduces the damage by 30% (based on dmg of the shock that triggers it)

I think this solves our Aggro problem, gives us more freedom to choose our equipment, and gives Lightning Shield more value in dungeons/raids
Wasnt raiding on Turtle yet, so i dont know hows the mana efficiency since the recent changes. So no suggestions on that side from me :)

Cheers

Kashchei
Posts: 29

Re: Enhancement Shaman Buffs

Post by Kashchei » Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:19 pm

If Enhance loses it's capacity to do it's already limited tanking i'll uninstall without hesitation. If anything enhance talents should just be built like feral so you have the option to either hard dps or invest in survivability and threat gen.

Noce
Posts: 96

Re: Enhancement Shaman Buffs

Post by Noce » Sun Apr 23, 2023 11:50 am

Ghost Wolf
completely change or remove from game. i never understud why it was given to shamans to morph into wolf. and why only to wolf? snake, eagle and wolf are animals that came to my mind related to shamans. it would be cool to add somekind of aspects like hunts have to increase speed. but u dont get dazed and u cant att while u r in this aspect or smtn like that. call it ANIMAL INSTICT or w/e. it could also work as SHAMANISTIC RAGE but just give speed burst and some avoidance/absorb (Cyclone)shield/reduced dmg taken. OR make it baseline spell and remove it from talents. bcoz 2 talents spent and not get instant cast is stupid. why only druids to have all fun?

Clense
we need clense. would be nice to have it as base spell, or just give it to resto. there are alot of space to get it into talent tree.

Hex
shamans need some kind of CC. all shamans not just trolls. make it same as poly. and give trolls some kind of shadow spell as class-race specific. alot to choose from. shadow dot like glave throw, poison dart, snake totem, shadow shock..

Totems
give us CASTER totems. increse cast speed, add spell dmg or smtn like that. i could see it as base spell or give it to ELE in talents.

Wpn Imbue
also a possibility here. casters need somekind of imbues. could also mimic paladins seals to give mana back and/or mini stuns. mbe in form of chance on crit, or to use up active shield.

Maelstrom
enha need it in some way and form. to give instant cast chance on crit mele or spell.

Taunt
if u wish to go on this path to give shamans to tank, and be proper tank we need taunt. and make fire totems add up to shamans threat.

Earth Shock
Earth Shock - it rly should be devided. it could get that reduced melee attack. if not, then make only a dmg spell w/o high threat.
Wind Shear - if ES get devided then we need a WS as result of that. id say only in form of intterupt w/o lowering threat

Make each spec desired in it own unique way
having sed that it would be so nice that when u make raids when deciding why u want specificaly each spec of shamans in raids.
- so give ELE a unique totem to boost casters, id give them also that thunderhead thing its nice concept (or keep it in enha since its wc3 thing and id keep this thing).
- give RESTO ability to cast EARTH SHIELD on ppl and clense(if we dont get it as base spell). also MANA TIDE could be redone to give a mana+hp regen.
- ENHA could get a FERAL Wolves. BLOODLUST can be only enha thing but then it must be a PARTY buff. id rather have it as BASE spell and keep it as SINGLE target cast as is atm. not sure if we need 2nd mele spell, it wont hurt but mbe op. as for dual wield, cant hurt to have it.

General changes:
make totemic mastery a base thing
give us some custom quest to combine all of ours totems. 4 bag slots used is rly too much.
make totems last untill EXPIRE or DESTROYED. not to dissapear after you die
make that talent swap of totemic focus and tidal focus (as it was intended)
Water Shield and Earth Shield would be nice to get while lvling not only at 60
Stormstrike COULD possibly be a elemental dmg increase, not just nature. so we can use frost and fire shocks also
talents such as [Restorative Totems] [Ancestral Knowledge] [Reverberation] are somewhat useles, weak and mostly always skipped. those could be remade or removed in favour of some new talents.

all those changes only add up to the each spec uniqueness and playability, not insane numbers and op. all can be perfectly balanced.

Kashchei
Posts: 29

Re: Enhancement Shaman Buffs

Post by Kashchei » Fri Apr 28, 2023 8:15 am

Hello to everyone who's checking the notification for this post. If you had suggestions you want to add to the shaman megathread please do so

viewtopic.php?t=6858

I like the idea of providing the dev team with a concise and easy to read list of everyone's suggestions and feedback.

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Camanchaca
Posts: 23

Re: Enhancement Shaman Buffs

Post by Camanchaca » Fri Apr 28, 2023 8:38 am

Dual wield fists

Use polearms.

This would be very Lore centered, orcs use fists and shadow hunters spears in WC3.


Almost no one uses these weapons, so the impact should be almost zero. There is no need to imbue the second hand fist if it complicates things at the beginning. It can be just enchanted with sharpening stones or some fire elixir or whatever.

Kashchei
Posts: 29

Re: Enhancement Shaman Buffs

Post by Kashchei » Fri Apr 28, 2023 9:09 am

Hello to everyone who's checking the notification for this post. If you had suggestions you want to add to the shaman megathread please do so

viewtopic.php?t=6858

I like the idea of providing the dev team with a concise and easy to read list of everyone's suggestions and feedback.

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