Earth Shield and Wind Shear

[Original3]

Here are suggestions for 2 spells I would add to make Shaman tank more vaible and still not Overpowered, please give me feedback and help adress it to Developers, so the suggestion may come true!

**EARTH SHIELD**
*Requires level 60*

*250 mana*
*30 sec cooldown*

The caster is surrounded with an earthen shield, increasing Defense skill by 20% and causing attacks to heal the Shaman for 20% of the total damage done. This effect can only occur once every few seconds. 3 charges. Lasts 10 min. Only one elemental shield can be active on the Shaman at any one time."

Idea of this spell is to give Shaman tanks crush immunity.
Don't forget, that we cannot use plate gear and our stamina pool is very limited, since we don't have powerful tier sets with big loads of stamina, like warriors do. This makes us very squishy and some bosses are just a no-no for shaman tanks, cause their crit could delete us from the world.
What this spell does is, that you lower the Defense cap from items from 140 to 67. I find this very fair, cause we don't have access to non-tier plate items with defense, such as Helm of Domination or Pauldrons of the Unrelenting.
I also think the ability isn't super OP, but you can make some CD,mana cost or duration changes to balance it a bit.
It also makes Shaman tank gearing more flavourful, 'cause now it's just stacking armor, health and dodge.

**WIND SHEAR**
Requires level 60

*150 mana*
*8 sec cooldown*

Hits target with the power of wind increasing time between their attacks by 5%. Stacking up 3 times. Causes additional threat.

I am shaman tanking on Turtle WoW for a longer time already and I see our threat generation as very solid one. At least with similar geared dps.
The problem appeared, when I was supposed to hold threat against naxxramas geared players and it was very challenging.
Warriors deal with this problem very easily, they can just dual wield instead of equiping a shield and therefore increase their threat generation by a lot.
Druids can equip Manual Crowd Pummeler, which icreases their TPS by 30%-ish.

Having another threat generating ability on shamans is therefore a big Quality of Life. Also, the attack speed reduction makes us more tanky.

These two changes can make Shaman a competetive raid tank, who is still not overpowered, is uniqe in its own way and still cannot kick off warriors or druids of their throne.

[Ravenstone]

Just to clear something up, 440 Defense makes you Crit immune, not Crush immune. Those two are separate things.

I'm curious as to a couple of things regarding how you currently tank if you wouldn't mind elaborating. Firstly, how you are dealing with the spell hit problem that Shamans currently have that prevent their shocks landing more reliably, because it seems to me that Wind Shear would suffer from the same problem. Are you reliably able to hit Earth Shocks?

Secondly, which shield are you using? I was under the impression with all the mana problems Shamans had, they would just be popping Water Shield all the time to keep their mana up.

[Mekunekud]

Here are suggestions for 2 spells I would add to make Shaman tank more vaible and still not Overpowered, please give me feedback and help adress it to Developers, so the suggestion may come true!

**EARTH SHIELD**
*Requires level 60*

*250 mana*
*30 sec cooldown*

The caster is surrounded with an earthen shield, increasing Defense skill by 20% and causing attacks to heal the Shaman for 20% of the total damage done. This effect can only occur once every few seconds. 3 charges. Lasts 10 min. Only one elemental shield can be active on the Shaman at any one time."

Idea of this spell is to give Shaman tanks crush immunity.
Don't forget, that we cannot use plate gear and our stamina pool is very limited, since we don't have powerful tier sets with big loads of stamina, like warriors do. This makes us very squishy and some bosses are just a no-no for shaman tanks, cause their crit could delete us from the world.
What this spell does is, that you lower the Defense cap from items from 140 to 67. I find this very fair, cause we don't have access to non-tier plate items with defense, such as Helm of Domination or Pauldrons of the Unrelenting.
I also think the ability isn't super OP, but you can make some CD,mana cost or duration changes to balance it a bit.
It also makes Shaman tank gearing more flavourful, 'cause now it's just stacking armor, health and dodge.

**WIND SHEAR**
Requires level 60

*150 mana*
*8 sec cooldown*

Hits target with the power of wind increasing time between their attacks by 5%. Stacking up 3 times. Causes additional threat.

I am shaman tanking on Turtle WoW for a longer time already and I see our threat generation as very solid one. At least with similar geared dps.
The problem appeared, when I was supposed to hold threat against naxxramas geared players and it was very challenging.
Warriors deal with this problem very easily, they can just dual wield instead of equiping a shield and therefore increase their threat generation by a lot.
Druids can equip Manual Crowd Pummeler, which icreases their TPS by 30%-ish.

Having another threat generating ability on shamans is therefore a big Quality of Life. Also, the attack speed reduction makes us more tanky.

These two changes can make Shaman a competetive raid tank, who is still not overpowered, is uniqe in its own way and still cannot kick off warriors or druids of their throne.

I don't think Shamans should be competitive raid tanks. Its not WOTLK and niches are a thing. What the problem happens to be is that Shamans don't really make good 5 man tanks, primarily due to the itemisation since the BiS helm is a level 50 something epic helm.
It's the same case for Paladins. There's some definite tweaks to be made to enable better use of skills, such as Earth Shock losing the threat coefficient outside of Rockbiter (just make Rockbiter do 100% threat on melee and spell effects, including healing), Earth Shield being earlier so Shamans have an effective tanking shield, possibly lowering crit of incoming attacks by 5%, possibly a full set of level 58 items with agi/stam tailored for the spec/survival hunters.
All classes shouldn't be competitive on every level. Shaman tanks bring their own competitive tool sets in 5 mans. Spell denial for DoTs and direct casts on NPCs is super strong and bringing your own buffs ontop of that brings more value than you'd think. Same reason Paladin tanks are great for the extra blessing, judgement and aura.

[Geojak]

earth shiels is already in the game

[Ravenstone]

I don't think Shamans should be competitive raid tanks. Its not WOTLK and niches are a thing.

I disagree with this thinking, there's a shortage of tanks and whilst thats primarily just the way it'll be because people don't want the responsibility, it doesn't do any favours to limit a class to tanking in just 5 mans. Giving them a goal to strive to isn't a bad thing and frankly I don't see many people just speccing for 5 mans.

I don't think anyone wants to see just one or two classes become the only viable tank, and it's not like Shamans will appear everywhere. I also think especially in the case of Enhancement PvE he just has no reason to play at the moment.

Earth Shield being earlier so Shamans have an effective tanking shield, possibly lowering crit of incoming attacks by 5%

You mentioned crit reduction which I like as an idea, and have been thinking about myself, but whilst toying with a rogue tank idea. It's present in the Rogue talent Sleight of Hand and even just 4% reduces the requirement of defense to 40 to become uncrittable. It doesn't really upset anything too much, is much more attainable. Not sure I'd make it baseline for Earth Shield though.

[Original3]

Shaman Tanks are much better than you might think. Statement, that Shamans cannot even tank 5 mans properly is incorrect.
I actively raid as Shaman tank and I am able to tank mobs and even bosses in Molten Core, Zul Gurub and AQ20.

Turtle wow is doing good job with custom items they are making, here are some to mention.
https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=83565
https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=51786
https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=51785

About the spell hit problem. Yes, it's a very big issue all Enhancement Shamans have.
I pick talent Nature's Guidance to get additional 3% melee and spell hit.
I am also trying to get my hands on Nat Pagle's Broken Reel, since that one makes pulls much easier.
And for the shield I use Earthen Guard. --> https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=20688

Thanks to paladins, mana issues aren't that big in raids. Blessing of Wisdom and Judgement of Wisdom do already a lot.
I also use Black Grasp of the Destroyer to get some mana back on my weapon swings. (+effect causes threat)

And reworked Elemental Focus is a huge buff for us. Since it can proc off Melee crit too, it's uptime is nearly 100%.
So my shocks are 50% cheaper (considering Convenciton talent)

And yes, I think that Earth Shield could just reduce the chance of getting a critical strike by 5%. That is a good idea. But I would still keep that 20% of the damage dealt as heal for the Shaman.

[Ravenstone]

And for the shield I use Earthen Guard. --> https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=20688

Ah sorry, I meant which of Water Shield, Lightning Shield or Earth Shield do you use, not the actual item. But since you have no mana issues I think I can guess.

Spell hit for Shocks seems to be the real sticky issue for all types of Enhance Shamans, if you could reliably hit them then you wouldn't need a new spell like Wind Shear.

[Original3]

And for the shield I use Earthen Guard. --> https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=20688

Ah sorry, I meant which of Water Shield, Lightning Shield or Earth Shield do you use, not the actual item. But since you have no mana issues I think I can guess.

Spell hit for Shocks seems to be the real sticky issue for all types of Enhance Shamans, if you could reliably hit them then you wouldn't need a new spell like Wind Shear.

I use them all, it just depends on the situation.
Lightning Shield - Mostly for dungeon trash. I also use it on raid trash mobs or short fights, where boss dies before I use my mana resources.
Water Shield - When mana drops bellow 30% and I have good threat. Or in dungeons where threat isn't an issue and I want to reduce downtime.
Earth Shield - When fighting a mob/boss that hits hard to decrease the damage by a bit.

This is the reason why I want Earth Shield to get buffed, 300 mana for 450 healing is a very bad ratio and it surely needs a buff.

Good example could be Vanilla Plus version of Earth Shield.

20 sec cd ability that stacks with Lightning Shield
Increases Healing Taken by 15% and chance to block by 20%. Lasts for 10 min or 20 attacks.

[Gantulga]

I don't think Shamans should be competitive raid tanks.

They already are. My raiding group has one tanking BWL and AQ40 just fine.

[Kairion]

I don't think Shamans should be competitive raid tanks.

They already are. My raiding group has one tanking BWL and AQ40 just fine.

Well you find plenty of evidence of weird tanks. Famously a Shadowpriest tanked onyxia in a all priest Ony raid back in 2006. People doing it does not mean it is competetive. Competetive means you are comparable at tanking to warrior. And i have to agree here with Mekunekud. Shamans dont have taunt, meaningful active damage mitigation, crit/crush protection, decent AoE tank options, Oh Shit buttons and at the same time they suffer from subpar passive mitigation. If shaman should be a competetive choice, all these things would have to be added. This means shaman is basically a new class.

Usable in Dungeons and maybe raids is nice to give players the option to explore their creativity, but dueling warriors for the topspot of best raidtank is completely reshaping shaman as a class, since such massive mitigation improvements would make him busted in other parts of the game if the rest of his toolkit is not adjusted to compensate

You can see the same thing already happened to Paladin which was much closer to be a viable tank to begin with

[Ravenstone]

Regarding whether they should or shouldn't be competitive Raid tanks, there are basically two things that people aim to do at max level. That's PvP and do Raids. No-one makes a career out of Dungeon tanking, and it seems silly to not want Shamans to be better Raid tanks because they should be relegated to tanking 5 mans. Tanking Raids is the natural progression for a dungeon tank.

As to whether Shamans need a rework, potentially, though considering people are already tanking Raid bosses, I don't see it as a big deal to just keep giving them incremental but balanced buffs till they are at a spot that works better and then re-evaluate. Are they currently a well rounded tank? No. But competitive can mean a number of things and later on in the game when people get more gear, the real limiting factor is the max threat from the main tank, not the mitigation, especially for the earlier Raids.

I don't want to see Warriors replaced as the go-to tank spec when progressing raids. But moreso I don't want to see useless specs as the Enhancement Shaman currently feels. I feel you can make them viable without requiring a rework and breaking everything. If you relegate them to 5 man dungeons, you might as well say don't play an Enhancement Shaman.

[Kairion]

Well thats not how this works, Priest has gotten an attackpower component to inner fire. That alone does not qualify him to do rogue level melee dps.

Shaman tank has gotten admittably a bit more love from turtledevs than melee priest, but he was never regarded as a proper tank. People just play him as such because it was fun and it's not like the spec was clearly aimed at DPS either.

Which is absolutely fine, and i myself quite enjoy tanking on the shaman occasionally. But the class is lacking every single tool you want from a Raidboss tank appart from Threat generation. And even in Threatgain he gets outclassed by other classes.

the mediocrity of enhancement obviously needs to be addressed, but if your aim is "tank every single boss just as well as other tanks" you are pigeonholding yourself into the same core skillset of other classes. And we see that with every new suggestion. We see Attackspeed slows comparable to Tclap, Shieldblock, Mana regen on block and variations on Consecration being thrown around.

[Ravenstone]

Well, frankly the Turtle WoW devs who are dealing with balance and class design are clearly shortsighted and don't seem to particularly have taken the time to understand the classes. The Paladin in particular proves that, and all the spells from previous versions readded. I wouldn't be surprised at this point if they added the old Hunter Lacerate talent back.

Proper Vanilla WoW Shaman clearly appears to have had the intent to have been made a tank at one point. However, they thought there would be too many tanks initially, which they now seem to have regretted. That's very different to melee Priest with just one attack power buff added by Turtle WoW probably based on the WC3 spell.

I don't really understand what it is you want for Enhancement Kairion.

I agree they shouldn't just be copy and pastes of the other tanks, and I don't think the Wind Shear suggestion here is required. It suffers the same spell hit problem as the shocks. Earth Shield getting a crit reduction on the other hand isn't used by other tanks and is worth some thought.

[Kairion]

actually i don't quite know what i would regard as the ideal toolkit for enhancement shaman. I would love to suggest it, but i got none

Any change that "fixes" the class has little to do with how shaman in classic feels, pretty much regardless if its a tank or a dps spec.

I like a crit resistence buff of some sort like the suggested earthshield. It doesn't make shaman a good tank because mitigation is still rather low, but it softens the blow on one of his worst weaknesses. I'd however probably make it give a fixed defense rating rather than a percentage. you need 440 defense to be passively crit immune. With a percentage bonus that is extremely geardependent in a way where the skill only becomes good when your gear is good enough to tank without the spell anyway.
But i'd probably add it in form of a defense bonus to all your elemental shields (self cast only) per point spent in spirit shield. Keeps the option open to use Watershield instead if mana is the issue, not survivability.

To me shaman is both very in tune with the elements thematically and has a lot of tools for runing spellcasters days. Considering there are a few bosses that require you to wear heavy resistence gear (and resistence fights usually aren't that hard hitting physically) maybe its worth exploring making shaman adept at fighting bosses wich deal high magic damage (Geddon, Rag, Shazzrah, Skeram, Onyxia to some extent or KT come to mind.

To push the anti spellcaster theme Elemental Warding could be improved to 15% and extended to include the other spellschools (either with or without including holy). This would mean shaman has 5% more spelldmg mitigation than warrior and built in resistence & a spellnegate with grounding. Making him an actual good choice in these encounters.

[Ravenstone]

I like the idea of them being more of an anti spellcaster tank, fits quite well with their affinity with the natural elements, and the idea to boost the spell damage resistance.

I was imagining the Crit resistance more like the current Rogue Sleight of Hand talent, where it is applied directly to the opponents chance to crit you, rather than boosting your own Defense by a %. So a 4% Crit reduction for example would make you less gear dependant, requiring you to only look for 40 Defense from gear rather than 140. That would specifically target part of the problem regarding their mitigation, whilst avoiding giving them added block, dodge and parry from a high Defense stat, and sort of reinforces the idea they aren't meant to be as good a physical mitigation tank.

[Original3]

When it comes to Earth Shield Defense bonus, we forget about one important thing - scaling with gear.

Warriors scale good with gear because their tier sets are very strong.
Druids scale good with gear because of bear form armor rating.
Paladins scale good with gear because of good Spell power coefficients.

Also, keep in mind that first boss you need crit immunity to is Chromaggus. By the time your guild reaches him, you might already have 67 defense rating.

Look at this pieces you can obtain without entering a raid:
Helm of the Great Chief (6), Evil Eye Pendant (7), Redoubt Cloak (7), Enchant Bracer - Deflection (3), Draconian Deflector (10), Naglering (5), Force of Will (7).

With this gear and Earth Shield active you can get 414 defense rating.
With better gear (like MC and BWL) you can achieve 440 without any issue.

Another thing I want to mention is the lore part of the elements, and how shamans use them.
Fire/Lightning - magical damage to hurt your enemies
Wind - imbuing the weapon with wind to hit enemy multiple times
Water - healing wounds of your enemies
Earth - protection of yourself and your allies

Last thing I want to mention is, how vanilla makes every spec uniqe in some ways.

Warriors are good in general, best threat generation, best defensive abilities.
Druids have the biggest Health pool and Polymorph immunity.
Paladins are by far the best AoE tanks.

The way I want to see shaman tank is, to be more defensive than threat tank.
We don't need to get taunt or insane threat generating.
I want shaman tank to be best option for bosses that hit hard and/or do high magical damage.

[Mekunekud]

The way I want to see shaman tank is, to be more defensive than threat tank.
We don't need to get taunt or insane threat generating.
I want shaman tank to be best option for bosses that hit hard and/or do high magical damage.

Shamans already get decent defensive stats from Agi. They are also the best consistent anti-caster tank with grounding totem and not to mention the AoE disease/poison remove.
There's definite issues but I don't see why you want Shamans to take the Druids trait for PvE on being the soaker tank. All shamans really need is easier crit immunity through a talent/spell and they will be golden.

[Original3]

This is basically what my Earth Shield suggestion asks for. Easier access to crit immunity.

Everything else is just an idea of what shamans could or could not use.

[Mekunekud]

This is basically what my Earth Shield suggestion asks for. Easier access to crit immunity.

Everything else is just an idea of what shamans could or could not use.

The main things Shamans could use is Earth Shock not having a threat modifier as standard and rolling it into Rockbiter, so all spell threat is increased by 40%, including shields. That way, you don't actually lose anything from using any different shield/shock and DPS can use Earth Shock for Stormstrike happily with no threat increase over the damage.
Earth Shield providing crit immunity and AoE threat on heal would resolve Shamans 2 biggest flaws, which are AoE threat after the pull and survivability. Or just have Thunderhead provide the 4-5% crit reduction as standard when using a shield instead of the current and make improved LS into a flat 15% effect increase/15% cost reduction for all shields.