Turtle WoW

Shadow(void Consecration) would be perfect (it is a ground effect, so it shouldn't be able to proc blackout; in PVP people can get out easily). for lord wise; draw the shadow power from the void and corrupt the ground near you.

every caster classes had a AOE ability(some with longer cd). an 8-15 sec CD Shadow Consecration would be perfect for PVE, and coding(implementation; just change pally spell to shadow damage and tweak the cd if dev want).

I don't think so.

2 posts in the same day asking the same thing? It’s also a no from me.

Gantulga wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 07, 2022 9:20 pm

I don't think so.

what is your reason to not give shadow priest aoe? the only caster with no AOE spell? and ground effect aoe would get blackout talent out of the widom

Gladeshadow wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 08, 2022 1:17 am

2 posts in the same day asking the same thing? It’s also a no from me.

so every caster should remove aoe abilities as well? why shadow priest has to be the only caster without AOE abilities? even my suggested spell would not trigger aoe blackout

What is next? Rogues getting an AOE?

Mages getting self heal

Give every class everything this is wrong mentality . Shadow priests should be best at damaging single targets .

Alrighty2 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 08, 2022 2:14 am

Gantulga wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 07, 2022 9:20 pm

I don't think so.

what is your reason to not give shadow priest aoe? the only caster with no AOE spell? and ground effect aoe would get blackout talent out of the widom

Smite priest would get kinda obsolete for a dpsing priest if shadow priest had a good aoe ability.

I could settle for a shadow aoe if its like you said similar to concecration, weak damage, high threat and 15-30 second cd with a 8 second duration.

Zirek wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:50 am

Give every class everything this is wrong mentality.

That's what they started doing in WotLK, which slowly but continually turned a great game into... well... retail .

As posted above, priest have bring some utility which pure dps caster classes don't have, so that more or less balances things out.

Alrighty2 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 08, 2022 2:14 am

Gantulga wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 07, 2022 9:20 pm

I don't think so.

what is your reason to not give shadow priest aoe? the only caster with no AOE spell? and ground effect aoe would get blackout talent out of the widom

Shadowpriest has access to vampiric embrace. A shadow damage AoE gives access to large amounts of rather cheap healing for your group if you can put on some vampiric embrace beforehand.

Also priest has access to a spamable aoe in holy nova already.
Its not the best aoe but it is already solving the need described except for being available to deep shadow priest. Its almost as if skilling a certain way had upsides and opportunity costs

Kairion wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:29 pm

Shadowpriest has access to vampiric embrace. A shadow damage AoE gives access to large amounts of rather cheap healing for your group if you can put on some vampiric embrace beforehand.

That would only be true if you could VE all the aoe targets beforehand. That's the kicker, VE has a 10 second cooldown. You would only get the healing and mana return for damage done to one of the targets. Or 0, as it'd end up being just not worth it to VE even one mob.

Shamma wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:30 am

What is next? Rogues getting an AOE?

They already have their cleave. It's inconvenient but many rogues can time their use to great effect and keep decent pace with warriors on most trash and boss encounters.

Please stop strawmanning.

Zirek wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:50 am

Give every class everything this is wrong mentality . Shadow priests should be best at damaging single targets .

Why.

Try to explain. you can't

Smites already do way better single target damage than spriest. Spriest's point is to sacrifice raw damage in exchange for big party mana returns, passive instead of active healing, and easier pragmatic gearing.

Theres no reason they shouldn't have a spammable AOE like the rest.

It can be made inconvenient for pvp like paladin's, but in pve pallies can pump that aoe damage with consc. This is why I think spriests getting a consecrate style shadowy aoe is the perfect fit.

Ugoboom wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 08, 2022 6:03 pm

Kairion wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:29 pm

Shadowpriest has access to vampiric embrace. A shadow damage AoE gives access to large amounts of rather cheap healing for your group if you can put on some vampiric embrace beforehand.

That would only be true if you could VE all the aoe targets beforehand. That's the kicker, VE has a 10 second cooldown. You would only get the healing and mana return for damage done to one of the targets. Or 0, as it'd end up being just not worth it to VE even one mob.

...

Point taken, you couldn't dot up more than 2-3 of the mobs realisitcally with VE. But you have the option to multidot with SW Pain and the option to AoE via Holy nova. These are two options to push your damage in AoE situations. There is just no need to create a new spell since all it would be doing is robbing an already underused spell of priest (holy nova) part of its already limitted application potential and go towards the direction of retail where everyone is good at everything.

Classes having well defined weaknesses is as impactful in making classes interesting as well defined strengths.

Kairion wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:54 pm

Point taken, you couldn't dot up more than 2-3 of the mobs realisitcally with VE. But you have the option to multidot with SW Pain and the option to AoE via Holy nova. These are two options to push your damage in AoE situations. There is just no need to create a new spell since all it would be doing is robbing an already underused spell of priest (holy nova) part of its already limitted application potential and go towards the direction of retail where everyone is good at everything.

Classes having well defined weaknesses is as impactful in making classes interesting as well defined strengths.

That 2nd option doesn't really exist. As a spriest you are going to be gearing with mostly shadow power gear. You need spellpower gear in order to make nova based. It's gonna be mighty sus to a raid leader that their team's spriests are rolling on so many spellpower pieces that boost only their nova, and are worse than their shadow pieces.
Ontop of the fact that spriests are always building for inner focus. It's kinda nasty to expect spriests to have their 2nd spec be this scuffed holy nova/shadow build they'd need to keep pace with aoe / single target mixed packs. You simply dont have the time to switch.

WotLK and later Retail doesn't suck because every dps spec is brought to raids, it's because they switched to play-the-patch which destroys the RPG and the feel of the ever living world.

Mages and warriors don't need to choose between being both single target and aoe chads. They do both in 1 spec. And warrior is a hybrid. What you are advocating for, with classes having limitations on what kind of encounters they can be viable on, never existed.

"Bring the player not the spec" was touted in Wrath.

I dislike that.

I like "Bring the proper comp of classes/specs" much more.

This is subjective. I understand you do not share the sentiment.

I fully agree with you that "they switched to play-the-patch which destroys the RPG and the feel of the ever living world" is worse.

I feel Turtle should take a side on the

"Bring the player not the spec" --- "Bring the proper comp of classes/specs"

spectrum, so that the constant asking for changes in either direction will cease. Set a clear philosophy.

Sure Mages and warriors both can deal good singletarget and aoe damage. But neither of them can heal or restore mana to their allies. To me it looks like one of these situations where the grass is just greener on the other side of the fence.

A shadowpriest is much more than just a dps number - you increase every warlocks dps and recover your raids mana and health and at the end of the day you are still a priest and can provide raidbuffs, emergency healing, rezzing and utility with your shields.

By the logic that spriest is held back by a weak aoe, we need to also address the embarassingly bad aoe options hunter, shamans and druids have. But the classes are perfectly serviceable without a strong spamable option for AoE

I think bring the player and not the spec can not realistically be married with classic. You need loot distribution that takes into account your raid composition, remove any particular weakness your raid might have by not bringing a certain class or stacking another. Additionally all classes need to perform on par with one another in all metrics for this approach to even be an improvement to the current raid composition requirements.

Spriests can get AoE when blade flurry becomes a toggle and blackout is removed from the game.

Warrior is the only melee class not being able to remove slows, give them a new ability, devs could just copy blessing of freedom and call it shadow freedom

Forsaken Shadow Priests could draw an inspiration for an AOE from here:
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Shadow_ascendant

Isvya wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:39 am

Warrior is the only melee class not being able to remove slows, give them a new ability, devs could just copy blessing of freedom and call it shadow freedom

How does a shaman remove slows?

Shamma wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:01 pm

Isvya wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:39 am

Warrior is the only melee class not being able to remove slows, give them a new ability, devs could just copy blessing of freedom and call it shadow freedom

How does a shaman remove slows?

Ha now you got him!

Yeah bcs shaman is a pure melee class riiight?

Isvya wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:24 pm

Yeah bcs shaman is a pure melee class riiight?

If that is the argument - then the only pure melee class that CAN remove slows baseline is the paladin. No other! The rogue has talent of a CD that can be used once every few minutes. Does not count as a reliable slow removal tool.

The druid is not a pure melee class!

Rogue is the only class without any group/raid utility. How about they get a "Shout of Agility"? Also "Cleaving Strike" and "Cleavewind" to have competent AoE.
Gotta flesh out the tank spec too so they can raid tank.
It would also be nice to have easily craftable gear like "Rogueheart Hood" and world drop BoE's like "Edgymaster Gloves" that is BiS forever and also the ability to wield axes for smoother gearing.
Maybe introduce a bug that applies your main hand's hit rate to your offhand's so they can be competitive damage dealers?

Shamma wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:31 pm

Isvya wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:24 pm

Yeah bcs shaman is a pure melee class riiight?

If that is the argument - then the only pure melee class that CAN remove slows baseline is the paladin. No other! The rogue has talent of a CD that can be used once every few minutes. Does not count as a reliable slow removal tool.

The druid is not a pure melee class!

https://database.turtle-wow.org/?spell=1856

Isvya wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:07 pm

Shamma wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:31 pm

Isvya wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:24 pm

Yeah bcs shaman is a pure melee class riiight?

If that is the argument - then the only pure melee class that CAN remove slows baseline is the paladin. No other! The rogue has talent of a CD that can be used once every few minutes. Does not count as a reliable slow removal tool.

The druid is not a pure melee class!

https://database.turtle-wow.org/?spell=1856

https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=18 ... e-alliance

Shamma wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:13 pm

Isvya wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:07 pm

Shamma wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:31 pm

If that is the argument - then the only pure melee class that CAN remove slows baseline is the paladin. No other! The rogue has talent of a CD that can be used once every few minutes. Does not count as a reliable slow removal tool.

The druid is not a pure melee class!

https://database.turtle-wow.org/?spell=1856

https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=18 ... e-alliance

https://database.turtle-wow.org/?item=20008

Glad you changed your mind! Enough ways to break slows and no need to copy paladin skills onto the warrior.

Shamma wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:18 pm

Glad you changed your mind! Enough ways to break slows and no need to copy paladin skills onto the warrior.

And no need to give spriests aoe

Absolutely. OK. You were being sarcastic. LOL.

No.

- Shadow priests got 15% more spirit regen
- Shadow priests got 15% less mana cost
- Shadow priests got pain spike
- Shadow priests got HUGE mana regen with Vampiric embrace

You are now asking them to get an AOE.

This is destroying class identity. Mages can't heal themselves, locks can't heal their group. That's why they get AOE.

If you want to play a mage or a warlock, go play it. You can even play smite priests and get holy nova.

Rafale wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:25 am

No.

- Shadow priests got 15% more spirit regen
- Shadow priests got 15% less mana cost
- Shadow priests got pain spike
- Shadow priests got HUGE mana regen with Vampiric embrace

You are now asking them to get an AOE.

This is destroying class identity. Mages can't heal themselves, locks can't heal their group. That's why they get AOE.

If you want to play a mage or a warlock, go play it. You can even play smite priests and get holy nova.

Not being able to attack more than one target isn't a very good defining feature for a class that is ment to be a spiritual leader of it's race (of many targets), even if it focuses on the darker side of the forces underlining faith.

By the way, shadow priests do worse single target damage than their spell casting conterparts that are also able to deal AOE.
And I wouldn't compare attacking more than one target with a capacity to wield forces that allow a class to self-heal.
Mages can't heal themselves but have a better crowd control and capacity to escape, and warlocks have pets.
It is a category of support/defense that all classes approach in their way appropiate to their class fantasy.

AOE as well as how one deals single target damage, are categories that classes approach in their unique ways too.
For the rogue it makes sense lore-wise to have an identity of excelling at single target at the expense of AOE, for the priest it doesn't.

Feel free to tab target swp

Mativh wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:47 am

[...]

Not being able to attack more than one target isn't a very good defining feature for a class that is ment to be a spiritual leader of it's race (of many targets), even if it focuses on the darker side of the forces underlining faith.

By the way, shadow priests do worse single target damage than their spell casting conterparts that are also able to deal AOE.
And I wouldn't compare attacking more than one target with a capacity to wield forces that allow a class to self-heal.
Mages can't heal themselves but have a better crowd control and capacity to escape, and warlocks have pets.
It is a category of support/defense that all classes approach in their way appropiate to their class fantasy.

AOE as well as how one deals single target damage, are categories that classes approach in their unique ways too.
For the rogue it makes sense lore-wise to have an identity of excelling at single target at the expense of AOE, for the priest it doesn't.

A spiritual leader of a faction would interact with lots of their allies, not with lots of enemies. Priests AoE buffs & heals are excellent. so from a lore perspective it fits perfectly. Especially considering that Shadowpriests are by most of the races considerid less than pure individuals who should be avoided, similar to warlocks.

But by inviting the comparison to Mage, you also have to consider what upsides priests have over mage. You offer a similar amount of CC to mage with AoE Fear, blackout stuns, mindflay slow and shackle undead. So in the CC department, you are comparable to them. Yet you have the most powerful ability as a class that anyone can have in WoW - healing. choosing not to use it still leaves this tool in your toolbox and gives you the option to either shield & heal yourself in an emergency rather than dying. For a mage there is no choice. he will die.
Additionally you bring a passive damage reduction against physical damage while your manaregeneration buff is active. Mage has to choose either of the two options.

So with already established that priest doesn't deserve an AoE spell, id like to point out, that blizzard has been gracious enough to gift holy nova to priest as a sidegrade to Inner focus. you even get to pick an aoe if you want one. But i guess yellow is not edgy enough of a color.

EDIT:
Holy nova being bad is certainly a disucission to be had, but its a MUCH smaller ask adjusting a existing spell than granting a class a perfect fix for their bigest weakness and discarding existing toolkits because they have some drawbacks