The Option for Goblins to become Priests!

[Vyntoras]

Hello, fellow Turtles!

Today I'm approaching with the idea of giving Goblins the option to become Priests. They have existed in the WoW Lore for ages and Horde only has two races that can opt into becoming a Priest, while Alliance has 4 total, thus adding more variety to both the new race and the Horde itself. I've seen that the numbers are skewed to the Alliance's favour and seeing how Priest is quite the popular class in Vanilla, it would also help balance out the scales between the two factions!

Also, I do believe there is a very fun RP element to playing out a Goblin healer. I know there's a lot of Naysayers that don't want Goblins to be able to heal, but they do exist and you cannot just 'think them away'. There is also a lot you can explore with Goblins on the topic of the two priest racials that they would then be privy to.

I'm hoping that I could at least interest some people in the idea of this with my little text here!

[Gheor]

Can you provide any source of information regarding the existence of Goblin Priests in Vanilla and WC3 lore?

Harder to think them away if there is solid information basing this thread.

[Qixel]

I mean, are there any examples of goblin warriors in WC3? We just see suicide bombers and zeppelin pilots from what I remember. Oh, and goblins in shredders. Shall we remove warriors, hunters, rogues, warlocks, and mages from goblins because we didn't see any in Warcraft 3?

I mean, I guess in total fairness we could make the case that goblin rogues are okay and we just didn't see them because they're stealthed.

[Vyntoras]

Basing it off of the lore that ALL Goblins hail from Kezan (because they have gotten their intelligence from prolonged exposure to Kajamite), they should be able to be Priests just like their non-Venture Co. fellas. Since they can be created as Priests on the Island it also means they've also not just become Priests right after the Cataclysm happened as a desperate measure either.

Also, the Holy Light answers to anyone who truly believes their cause is the just. (Example: Scarlets being able to wield the Light while willfully murdering anyone who doesn't fit their ideals, Yrel wiping out/converting the entire Orc Population of Draenor, etc.) So if Goblins truly used it as a money-making scheme, it would work as long as they firmly believe in their doing.

Hope that helped.

[Vyntoras]

Also, an additional reply to your question, Gheor:

I do not believe there are any Gnome Hunters NPCs either. So if we went by that argument alone, we'd have troubles with that idea too.

Though, if there is any proof for pre-Cataclysm gnome hunters, I'm open to learning something about that.

[Gantulga]

Goblin priests are lore-friendly. You just gotta attach an alms box to their back that other players can right-click to deposit money.

Being healed by one applies a permanent, stacking debuff called "Healing is money, friend" which reduces the healing received from that goblin until you become completely immune. The only way to cleanse that debuff is to deposit money in the alms box, and the longer you drag it on, the higher the interest becomes.

[Gheor]

I mean, are there any examples of goblin warriors in WC3? We just see suicide bombers and zeppelin pilots from what I remember. Oh, and goblins in shredders. Shall we remove warriors, hunters, rogues, warlocks, and mages from goblins because we didn't see any in Warcraft 3?

I mean, I guess in total fairness we could make the case that goblin rogues are okay and we just didn't see them because they're stealthed.

We shouldn't remove anything, nor did I say that this a big no no, I just wanted to see the OP provide the source of his determination so that in the eventuality we have a basis for it.

[Gheor]

Basing it off of the lore that ALL Goblins hail from Kezan (because they have gotten their intelligence from prolonged exposure to Kajamite), they should be able to be Priests just like their non-Venture Co. fellas. Since they can be created as Priests on the Island it also means they've also not just become Priests right after the Cataclysm happened as a desperate measure either.

Also, the Holy Light answers to anyone who truly believes their cause is the just. (Example: Scarlets being able to wield the Light while willfully murdering anyone who doesn't fit their ideals, Yrel wiping out/converting the entire Orc Population of Draenor, etc.) So if Goblins truly used it as a money-making scheme, it would work as long as they firmly believe in their doing.

Hope that helped.

It's very much true that the Holy Light answers to everyone, I'd actually like a decent source about this to see if it can be possible eventually.

[Vyntoras]

Basing it off of the lore that ALL Goblins hail from Kezan (because they have gotten their intelligence from prolonged exposure to Kajamite), they should be able to be Priests just like their non-Venture Co. fellas. Since they can be created as Priests on the Island it also means they've also not just become Priests right after the Cataclysm happened as a desperate measure either.

Also, the Holy Light answers to anyone who truly believes their cause is the just. (Example: Scarlets being able to wield the Light while willfully murdering anyone who doesn't fit their ideals, Yrel wiping out/converting the entire Orc Population of Draenor, etc.) So if Goblins truly used it as a money-making scheme, it would work as long as they firmly believe in their doing.

Hope that helped.

It's very much true that the Holy Light answers to everyone, I'd actually like a decent source about this to see if it can be possible eventually.

What exactly would you like to see a source for? The Light answering to anyone? Goblins being able to use holy magic?

Goblins being able to opt into becoming a Priest with the Cataclysm expansion should be a big enough source for the latter, since I do not believe there was a huge shift in the Goblin society between the few years of Classic and Cataclysm in which the Goblins would have suddenly picked it up if it wasn't already pre-established. This is purely based off of the lore we have gotten for Goblins since there was barely any available in Classic. Also, now that the Goblins have already joined the Horde on this Project, their prolonged contact with the Troll and Undead races (hell, even the Alliance races since Goblins can also play the neutral game) could also deepen their standing in the Light / Shadow.

And you can just about find anything you want to know about the Light on Wowpedia, the most reliable place for Lore we have as of now.

[Redmagejoe]

TBC and onward is not an acceptable source for decisions made on this server, as they are considered alternate to the vanilla canon. They need Warcraft, Warcraft II, Warcraft III, and vanilla World of Warcraft sources for lore-based decisions.

[Gantulga]

Yet we have gnome hunters and high elf paladins.

[Vyntoras]

Undead Hunters (prev. Humans) were also not a thing, because High Elven Rangers only trained very few humans their art. Nathanos for example. Yet we also do have them on here.

It was Nathanos who actually made it possible for Undeads to become Hunters, which was when... Cataclysm?

[Gheor]

Undead Hunters (prev. Humans) were also not a thing, because High Elven Rangers only trained very few humans their art. Nathanos for example. Yet we also do have them on here.

It was Nathanos who actually made it possible for Undeads to become Hunters, which was when... Cataclysm?

https://database.turtle-wow.org/?quest=40260
https://database.turtle-wow.org/?quest=40261
https://database.turtle-wow.org/?quest=40248
https://database.turtle-wow.org/?quest=40249
https://database.turtle-wow.org/?quest=40250
https://database.turtle-wow.org/?quest=40262

Nothing to do with Cataclysm.

Drawing inspiration from Cataclysm concerning Goblin Priests is unappealing, because to this day they haven't been given a proper explaination rather than:
"A Goblin once saw a holy man was rich and they can make money out of it."

Not enough of a justification for me.

Regarding the rest, these Goblins are Horde Goblins. Sure they've dealt with neutrality before which makes total sense.
But being influenced by the Trolls and Forsaken isn't really a good thing if I do say so myself.

The Trolls worship Loa and their priests have tendencies to voodoo magic.
The Forsaken have the Cult of Forgotten Shadows which is the anti thesis of Light.

Goblins would have no interest in the Loa.
There's already the path of being a Warlock which is more profitable than Shadow.

[Vyntoras]

Undead Hunters (prev. Humans) were also not a thing, because High Elven Rangers only trained very few humans their art. Nathanos for example. Yet we also do have them on here.

It was Nathanos who actually made it possible for Undeads to become Hunters, which was when... Cataclysm?

https://database.turtle-wow.org/?quest=40260
https://database.turtle-wow.org/?quest=40261
https://database.turtle-wow.org/?quest=40248
https://database.turtle-wow.org/?quest=40249
https://database.turtle-wow.org/?quest=40250
https://database.turtle-wow.org/?quest=40262

Nothing to do with Cataclysm.

Drawing inspiration from Cataclysm concerning Goblin Priests is unappealing, because to this day they haven't been given a proper explaination rather than:
"A Goblin once saw a holy man was rich and they can make money out of it."

Not enough of a justification for me.

Regarding the rest, these Goblins are Horde Goblins. Sure they've dealt with neutrality before which makes total sense.
But being influenced by the Trolls and Forsaken isn't really a good thing if I do say so myself.

The Trolls worship Loa and their priests have tendencies to voodoo magic.
The Forsaken have the Cult of Forgotten Shadows which is the anti thesis of Light.

Goblins would have no interest in the Loa.
There's already the path of being a Warlock which is more profitable than Shadow.

Those NPCs you have linked are custom NPCs specifically created for Turtle WoW to give them NPCs to interact with for their Class Quests, though? There are no prior records of them existing in Retail-Vanilla World of Warcraft. The only known Hunters the Undead have are Nathanos Blightcaller and the Dark Rangers that assist Sylvanas Windrunner, which are Elves that have been Rangers in their lifetime and now serve her in undeath.

And to top it all off, Dark Rangers count as the Elite of the undead military too, not just any old guy/gal that can be revived on the Deathknell cemetery.

Also, saying what is more profitable or not would go into speculation, which will derail this entire argument about if they can be Priests or not. Though, my point on that is: There is profit in anything. Just how much depends on how good you are. And being a Priest has the upside of not getting duped and killed by your demon, whereas that can very easily happen as a Warlock if a summon backfires.

[Vyntoras]

While on the topic of lacking lore, are there any sources of (Bronzebeard) Dwarves being able to become Mages PRIOR to being taught by the Dark Iron Clan in Cataclysm?

Because in Cataclysm the dwarves formed a council out of the Bronzebeards, the Dark Irons and the Wildhammers.

The Wildhammers taught all Dwarves how to be shamans while the Dark Irons taught them how to become Mages.

Is the Cash Shop option of getting a Dark Iron skin the only explanation for that?

[Faustorgo]

Shame n the non goblin priest believers ... Gheor really man, ofc they can be healers, healing can be a money profit, and goblins love money profit, actually its a really good idea, onyl against wc3 pourist believers, hope soemday developers could see their non elite mistake, and ofc the Holy Light answers to everyone, even you Gheor if you trully believe n that.

[Raukodor]

From a lore.perspective i think goblins are the opposite to the light

They arent bad. Just only care for themselves. Something that a healer wont do

So for me goblins shouldnt be priest

[Augustfenix85]

From a lore.perspective i think goblins are the opposite to the light

They arent bad. Just only care for themselves. Something that a healer wont do

So for me goblins shouldnt be priest

Counter-point: It would be very Goblin to have “the party” go fight things for me and i can stand back and heal a bit, and i don’t even have to pay the suckers to get punched in the face.

[Raukodor]

Maaayyybe but thats more a rogue or ranged/caster way

Shadow priest? Why not. Old gods offers power. And a impatient gobling would want this for his personal profit.... But healer.... The only goblin healer i inow are goblins alchemist from w3.... But not related with holy light at all

Sorry in lore i think goblins didnt care about light

[Faustorgo]

you lack of ambition is well noted, goblins always want to have profits, and a healer could easily be a good way to reach money, healing s money my friend, they dont have to be a religious kin of healers, si why not

[Vyntoras]

Maaayyybe but thats more a rogue or ranged/caster way

Shadow priest? Why not. Old gods offers power. And a impatient gobling would want this for his personal profit.... But healer.... The only goblin healer i inow are goblins alchemist from w3.... But not related with holy light at all

Sorry in lore i think goblins didnt care about light

I don't fully agree with that. The Light answers to anyone who is willing to fully devote themselves to it, no matter their cause. There have been enough cases of that. Scarlets in Classic are a prime example. Their cause was self-righteous, brutal and utterly degrading - yet the Light still helped all of them.

If Goblins also devoted themselves to the Light while also completely taking out others, why would the Light deny them that? The Light is just about open to anyone who is willing to preach the Light's will! If Goblins can make money off of that, that's literally the perfect marketing strategy for them.

On the other hand, Shadow/Void reflects the power hungry side that they also take in with Warlocks!

[Vyntoras]

Drawing inspiration from Cataclysm concerning Goblin Priests is unappealing, because to this day they haven't been given a proper explaination rather than:
"A Goblin once saw a holy man was rich and they can make money out of it."

Not enough of a justification for me.

Also, I thought that we were trying to make out if it would be possible from an objective standpoint for Goblins to become Priests and not base this off of someone's own, singular opinion!

I am not the only person on this Server asking for Goblin Priests and there is a very valid argument to be had about it.

[Gheor]

Undead Hunters (prev. Humans) were also not a thing, because High Elven Rangers only trained very few humans their art. Nathanos for example. Yet we also do have them on here.

It was Nathanos who actually made it possible for Undeads to become Hunters, which was when... Cataclysm?

https://database.turtle-wow.org/?quest=40260
https://database.turtle-wow.org/?quest=40261
https://database.turtle-wow.org/?quest=40248
https://database.turtle-wow.org/?quest=40249
https://database.turtle-wow.org/?quest=40250
https://database.turtle-wow.org/?quest=40262

Nothing to do with Cataclysm.

Drawing inspiration from Cataclysm concerning Goblin Priests is unappealing, because to this day they haven't been given a proper explaination rather than:
"A Goblin once saw a holy man was rich and they can make money out of it."

Not enough of a justification for me.

Regarding the rest, these Goblins are Horde Goblins. Sure they've dealt with neutrality before which makes total sense.
But being influenced by the Trolls and Forsaken isn't really a good thing if I do say so myself.

The Trolls worship Loa and their priests have tendencies to voodoo magic.
The Forsaken have the Cult of Forgotten Shadows which is the anti thesis of Light.

Goblins would have no interest in the Loa.
There's already the path of being a Warlock which is more profitable than Shadow.

Those NPCs you have linked are custom NPCs specifically created for Turtle WoW to give them NPCs to interact with for their Class Quests, though? There are no prior records of them existing in Retail-Vanilla World of Warcraft. The only known Hunters the Undead have are Nathanos Blightcaller and the Dark Rangers that assist Sylvanas Windrunner, which are Elves that have been Rangers in their lifetime and now serve her in undeath.

And to top it all off, Dark Rangers count as the Elite of the undead military too, not just any old guy/gal that can be revived on the Deathknell cemetery.

Also, saying what is more profitable or not would go into speculation, which will derail this entire argument about if they can be Priests or not. Though, my point on that is: There is profit in anything. Just how much depends on how good you are. And being a Priest has the upside of not getting duped and killed by your demon, whereas that can very easily happen as a Warlock if a summon backfires.

Was just trying to point out that if all else fails we can just create our lore, which we did before.
The idea of me linking the Hunter class quests was to show that it wasn't a carbon copy of Cataclysm.

[Gheor]

While on the topic of lacking lore, are there any sources of (Bronzebeard) Dwarves being able to become Mages PRIOR to being taught by the Dark Iron Clan in Cataclysm?

Because in Cataclysm the dwarves formed a council out of the Bronzebeards, the Dark Irons and the Wildhammers.

The Wildhammers taught all Dwarves how to be shamans while the Dark Irons taught them how to become Mages.

Is the Cash Shop option of getting a Dark Iron skin the only explanation for that?

Dwarven Mages were made available because they were supposed to be Mages when Vanilla would've launched. It was an Alpha feature which got scrapped. We simply activated the class again and its class quests.

It was deemed unnecessary at the time to add quests to explain them, as it was for Orc Mages. But I'm on my way to fix that. Nothing is ever perfect and I am more than willing to accept that.

[Gheor]

Shame n the non goblin priest believers ... Gheor really man, ofc they can be healers, healing can be a money profit, and goblins love money profit, actually its a really good idea, onyl against wc3 pourist believers, hope soemday developers could see their non elite mistake, and ofc the Holy Light answers to everyone, even you Gheor if you trully believe n that.

Uh, I don't remember giving a hard no. I just wanted to see how would someone suggesting it rationalised it. While my answers look a like vague no, that's not what's happening here. Nor am I saying yes to be honest, it can be a possibility, just not for me alone to decide.

[Gheor]

Drawing inspiration from Cataclysm concerning Goblin Priests is unappealing, because to this day they haven't been given a proper explaination rather than:
"A Goblin once saw a holy man was rich and they can make money out of it."

Not enough of a justification for me.

Also, I thought that we were trying to make out if it would be possible from an objective standpoint for Goblins to become Priests and not base this off of someone's own, singular opinion!

I am not the only person on this Server asking for Goblin Priests and there is a very valid argument to be had about it.

Exactly what we're doing. I didn't deny nor approve it, didn't wanna just dismiss it either. After all this is not a thing I alone can make possible or deny its existence if the requests are high enough.

I was just looking for some footwork for the eventuality of creating lore for a new race class combo. Needless to say writing has its own voice and tone at the back of the head of each reader. I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I'm not serious about this and that I've been wilding out just to 100% deny the suggestion.

I'm passionate about lore and figuring out motifs for new race class combinations is always fun, we will see what the future holds.

[Vyntoras]

Drawing inspiration from Cataclysm concerning Goblin Priests is unappealing, because to this day they haven't been given a proper explaination rather than:
"A Goblin once saw a holy man was rich and they can make money out of it."

Not enough of a justification for me.

Also, I thought that we were trying to make out if it would be possible from an objective standpoint for Goblins to become Priests and not base this off of someone's own, singular opinion!

I am not the only person on this Server asking for Goblin Priests and there is a very valid argument to be had about it.

Exactly what we're doing. I didn't deny nor approve it, didn't wanna just dismiss it either. After all this is not a thing I alone can make possible or deny its existence if the requests are high enough.

I was just looking for some footwork for the eventuality of creating lore for a new race class combo. Needless to say writing has its own voice and tone at the back of the head of each reader. I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I'm not serious about this and that I've been wilding out just to 100% deny the suggestion.

I'm passionate about lore and figuring out motifs for new race class combinations is always fun, we will see what the future holds.

I'm glad to hear that. I, myself, like to delve deep into World of Warcraft's lore. Which is probably pretty evident by now. I just got really bummed out when I first saw Goblins but then no Priest choice.

Also didn't take any of it as an offense or attack, just got a bit confused, admittedly!
I'm always up for talking more about this and the possibilities that may be explored to make it happen.

[Mac]

The true Goblin Priest experience is to make a goblin rogue, send it a human priest starter robe, and go around in the robe claiming to have the ability to heal others (for a price, of course).

But yeah, I support any and all race/class combinations.

[Raukodor]

Maybe creating a goblin-devotes wich see profit in religion

That could convince them to use the light.... That could have sense.

A goblin who sees profit is able of everithing

[Vyntoras]

That would also be a very fun twist on things, now that you say it.

There is an endless amount of possibilities for this, all you gotta do is do some mulling over!

[Ctmatsumoto]

Priests need faith in a higher power to call the Light (e.g. Elune) or have faith in the Light itself. Goblins' "higher power" is money.

[Vyntoras]

They do not. The Humans 'only' worship the Light itself. There is no higher power standing behind the Light, as the Light IS the highest power they can reach with their prayers. If the Goblins have enough faith and conviction in their doing, the Light will answer them.

[Ctmatsumoto]

They do not. The Humans 'only' worship the Light itself. There is no higher power standing behind the Light, as the Light IS the highest power they can reach with their prayers. If the Goblins have enough faith and conviction in their doing, the Light will answer them.

As you said, the Light is the highest power and obviously does have power standing behind it. Faith and conviction in just anything is not enough. If it were, you'd be arguing for current day WoW philosophies of the Light, not vanilla and prior. Even in Warcraft I and II, humans believed in a god.

[Vyntoras]

Could you show me a Source where it outright says that a deity is NEEDED to be able to be heard by the Light?

And if Humans also worship a god in Vanilla, could you show me what god it is? Like a Wowpedia thing or something like that.

[Ctmatsumoto]

Could you show me a Source where it outright says that a deity is NEEDED to be able to be heard by the Light?

And if Humans also worship a god in Vanilla, could you show me what god it is? Like a Wowpedia thing or something like that.

I never said a deity is needed. The Light isn't a deity. That being said, the idea that faith and conviction in just anything is enough to call upon the Light was a Blizzard retcon that muddied the idea of the Light to begin with; that its morality is based on the intentions of the user. A major, ugly Blizzjob to the tenth degree.

As for a human god:
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Retcon ... ht_and_God